Romain Grosjean, Haas, Monaco, 2018

Haas explains why it was second-slowest on Thursday

RaceFans Round-up

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In the round-up: Haas team principal Guenther Steiner says the team needs to work on its tyre preparation after being the second-slowest team in Thursday practice.

What they say

Steiner explained why the VF-18 was particularly uncompetitive in the first sector:

It’s more tyre-related. We don’t have the tyre, when we go over the start/finish line the tyres are not in the window. At sector two I think we are 10th-fastest, roughly. At sector three we are also not so bad. So it’s mainly sector one I think we are going in a little bit too cold on the tyres. And then you lose your confidence, as you say, turn one if you brake and the front doesn’t grip you’re in trouble.

Quotes: Dieter Rencken

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Comment of the day

Nase reckons ultra-softs are the best tyre to start on for those expecting to qualify at the front this weekend:

Let’s assume you’re a Red Bull driver, and you’ve qualified on ultra-soft (even though your team selected only one set of these tyres for the entire weekend, so you better make your Q2 attempt stick…).

Your initial pace might not be the fastest, but that doesn’t really matter as long as your start is decent and you manage to stay ahead. The Ferrari and Mercedes drivers behind you, if they can’t afford to qualify on the ultra-soft, may be on the faster tyre, but it will degrade much faster than the ultra-soft. And they won’t be able to use their pace to create a gap to the cars behind them, which they need to make a pit stop while maintaining their track position after the dust has settled.

After 20 laps, the hyper-soft starts to hurt. If you haven’t managed to pull a gap of at least 20 seconds over the ultra-soft runners in the midfield (which is to be expected if we look at the practice times: Renault, McLaren, Force India, Toro Rosso – all lapping comfortably within a second of Vettel’s fastest lap time), you’re in trouble. You won’t be able to delay your pit stop indefinitely, as your lap times will eventually be slower than the midfield, and your gap will start to crumble.

Sooner or later, you will need to pit, and you are very likely to drop back into the midfield, stuck behind ultra-soft runners who are in no hurry to make a pit stop. Meanwhile, at the front, the Red Bulls are continuing to lap faster than the midfield runners on the same tyre, steadily increasing their gaps, until they either reach lap 45-50, or a Safety Car is deployed, then making their sole pit stops of the day, emerging very comfortably ahead of the Ferrari and Mercedes drivers.

The latter will finally be set free due to the midfield ultra-soft runners pit stops, but it will be too late, and the race will be lost, maybe even the final spot on the podium.

The only vulnerability for ultra-soft runners would be a Safety Car deployment around the middle of the race, i.e. more than 30 laps from the end, as that’d be too early to switch to hyper-soft tyres. In that case, they might need to fit the super-soft tyres, and hope they’ll find a way to get some temperature into them.
Nase

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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  • 56 comments on “Haas explains why it was second-slowest on Thursday”

    1. A bit surprised that ESPN would be the one to write perhaps the most eloquent take-down of grid girls, but ‘ll take it!

      And grid robots?! Actually a genius solution hahah

      1. grid holograms

      2. Just imagine the Haas cars in an Optimus Prime livery! I’d totally support them just for that :P

      3. Hey @evman , I’d skipped the article because, you know, ESPN, but seeing your comment I went back and read it. Like you said, a well-written article, and one that ends not on a preachy note (like many others on this topic do) but on a slightly quirky and humourous note. Then again, it’s been written by Kate Walker, so that explains the good article.

        1. Thanks @phylyp, @evman; I too was about to skip the article, but now won’t

    2. Ok, let’s assume that grid girls is one of the most heinous form of women objetification – at par with genital mutilation, denial of civil rights or old fashion drunk beating, what differ it from allowing young guys to risk their lifes in motorracing?
      Disregard the hefty sums of money some, very little of those guys get, “gridgirling” and GP racing could as well be deemed as a form of objetification of a human being.
      If gridgirls were paid in Budchen’s levels would it be ok?
      If not, then we are in the road to proscribing motorracing on “social norms” basis.
      Very young guys are diverted from formal education – I think the list of uni/college graduated drivers in major series is very short – put into a constrained schedule, to work in a dangerous activity, subject to blunt trauma, explosions ans fumes, with very little cerntainty into a fruitful career.
      Oh, one says: it’s voluntary, so grid girls; one can became famous, so grid girls; it is no more risky than some regular careers, so grid girls; the financial compensation can be superlative compared to the effort, so grid girls.
      So there are some option:
      – Gridgirls are not an issue, and nobody should seriously care whether they go or stay;
      – Gridgirls are an issue, and they should go from F1, and the day will come that motorracing would be banned.

      1. Litterally the end of the world. Lol.

      2. Your male right? I’m a man and accept this is objectification. I Bet you’d be happy with scantily clad gay men?? If no, then you see why us socially educated people in society have an issue with it. If yes, then let’s make it 50/50 scantily clad men and women. The sport won’t change, what will change is a slight change in the fight for equality in humans.

    3. Hemingway (@)
      26th May 2018, 0:42

      I expect the top 10 to start on the hypers. If you’re fast enough to qualify on the ultras, why would you risk the undercut anyway? The VSC is more than likely to come out, and if it’s between lap 17-30 the ultra runners aren’t going to be able to pit for the hypers and go to the end, where those who only need to pit for one stint on the ultras will get a free 10+seconds and be on fresher tyres… My flawless opinion is 100% correct.

      1. Your flawless opinion may very well be correct, and if the HS grip levels “fall of a cliff” not only the VSC but the RSC may be very busy.

    4. Despite the excellent COTD from Nase (and counter from dmw) making tyre tactics sound intriguing, if not exciting, the comments from Team Haas about their tyre temperature problems highlights the negatives of this dependence on tyre management to make F1 (should be Ftyre) entertaining. These tyres being so temperature dependent for both grip and longevity (an oxymoron in Ft) are providing no advances in real-world* tyre technology and actually spoil the potential excitement of a race by artificially reducing both the ability and need for drivers to actually pass on the track.

      *see, I didn’t say “road relevant”

    5. The Susie Wolff and Girl girl articles are rubbish and total fluff that shouldn’t even be linked to.

      1. What a thoughtful and well laid out opinion…not. Interesting how all the most virulent posters about humph humph manly men motor racing don’t even have the family jewels to post comments with a registered username. Oh no, the women are coming, better be anonymous on the internet to prove how manly butchy butch men really are. Sheesh man, like seriously.

        1. Pray tell what insight and eternal wisdom did you learn from said articles? Waste of a link total fluff!

        2. Some of us prefer not to broadcast every detail of ourselves all over social media. While I agree with your first point, the fact that natlmm isn’t a registered user is neither here nor there.

          Why do you choose to register and tell everyone who you are?

      2. John Toad (@)
        26th May 2018, 9:06

        I was watching a YouTube clip, sorry I don’t have a link, about women in drag-racing and was surprised at how many were competing and winning championships.
        This is in all classes as well from Top Fuel through to Motor Bikes.
        I’m not sure why this is, given the paucity of female drivers in other motor racing series.
        Perhaps this could be a topic for a future article?

    6. Todd (@braketurnaccelerate)
      26th May 2018, 1:27

      I still don’t understand why people think Hamilton would ever want to go to Ferrari. They haven’t produced a season that says “we have a legitimate chance of a championship” in a long while. They’ve slowly faltered every season so far. Granted, this season seems to be better than the rest, but they do seem to be slipping a little. There’s also the immense pressure cooker that is Ferrari and the Tifosi. From the outside looking in, Mercedes seems like a much more laid back situation.

      But I guess Ferrari prestige, is Ferrari prestige…

      1. I do think as a final career move he may do it. We will wait till he feels he has done all he can at Mercedes and/or the car starts to fall behind, or as a final move before retirement.

        I think the idea of winning WC with more than 3 teams could be a more (or just as) exciting a prospect than matching Schumacher.

      2. one, it is possible that mercedes p

      3. “They haven’t produced a season that says “we have a legitimate chance of a championship” in a long while“

        Neither did Mercedes, who were in a worse position than Ferrari, but look how that turned out

        1. Todd (@braketurnaccelerate)
          26th May 2018, 10:08

          Ehh… Brawn GP took both WDC & WCC in 2009. Same team basically. So they were only 4 years removed from a championship when Hamilton swapped over. If Hamilton goes to Ferrari next year, they’ll possibly be 11 years removed from a WCC and 12 years removed from a WDC. Big difference, IMHO.

      4. Don’t forget his idol Senna wanted to end his career at Ferrari before he retired. I think 3-4 years at Ferrari trying to win the championship is on Hamilton’s mind for sure, and certainly gives extra inspiration to thwart Vettel doing so this season.

        I can see Hamilton going to Ferrari next year if Vettel will allow it. Unfortunately I don’t see that happening but then again how much say does Vettel actually have within the team?

        1. Maybe both teams end up swapping their drivers, eh? @john-h

    7. There’s absolutely no problem with grid girls, however people have a big problem. Espn says “little real purpose” that’s belittling women! Jokes aside, if you reckon that having pretty mute girls contrasting to male engineers, mechanics etc, gives a bad impression perhaps you shouldn’t give too much value to impressions, otherwise you wouldn’t care about grid girls. Intolerance turned on it’s head, leave grid girls alone.

      1. Having watched races with my 7-year old daughter, I can assure you it’s not the best impression to give to a child. Luckily I’m there to explain about female drivers and mechanics in Motorsport. It really is bigger than just allowing grid girls to do it because they want to, it’s more complex than that.

        1. @john-h Honest question. I’m curious who’s the first one asking / saying sentences that implied girls can on be grid girls in F1 (aka giving the wrong impression situation). Is it / will it be your daughter? yourself? your wife maybe?

    8. I’m one of those weirdos that absolutely loves this race. I had the pleasure of attending a few years ago and loved it. Not to sound like an egomaniac but friends and family consider me to be quite observant and I’ll add that watch every session for every race and Thursday’s practices were no different and I can’t say I saw a single tobacco advert and honestly wouldn’t care if I did so now I’m to be scanning the backgrounds of the shots instead of the on-track action. Thanks.

      Grid “girls”. I hate the term. I don’t hate the concept. My vote, if I had one, would be to let the host nation handle their business and let that be the end of it. Males, females, and everything in-between and beyond. We’re supposed to have moved beyond a binary culture by now anyway. Who cares how someone earns their income, whether it’s modeling or engineering, or as a mechanic? And before someone gets on their soapbox and decrees it’s wrong and it presents the wrong image, I say those people need to close their mouths, change their channel, and go do something productive with themselves.

      1. If there was actual equality amongst the team’s personel, and there were a bunch of qualified female drivers on the grid, then having grid “people” would be less of an issue (aside from really just being in the way).

        And telling people to shut their mouths and do something else productive is hypocritical coming from the person watching eagerly to get a glimpse and subsequent gratification of the grid girls. There are certainly easier ways.

        1. Explain what ‘actual equality amongst the team’s personnel’ is for me please because I’d like to know what that is and why it has any relevance to F1? Because as it stands F1 is a performance related field i.e best and most qualified person for the job nothing to do with gender, gender plays no role in the positions being held which is the way it should be.

          1. The “performance based” argument is a cop-out. Yes, it should be entirely on merit; but without true equality of opportunity we’ll never know.

            This isn’t just an F1 problem – this is a STEM problem. But F1 is highly visible, it is after all, the “pinnacle” – and because of this it should be leading in all areas, not just the technology.

            1. Now explain exactly how women don’t have equality of opportunity compared to men? and you can call it a cop out all you like you still can’t debunk it and you know it to be true. Gender politics have no say when it comes to performance, the results are what they are.

            2. If everyone had equal opportunity we would have more or less representative numbers of men, women, blacks, whites and any other group you choose to mention in positions up and down the socio-economic spectrum in terms of income, position and nature of work. That’s not an opinion, it’s a straightforward matter of the most basic statistical probabilities. You may choose to explain the discrepancies based on some supposed natural inclinations, affinities or character traits – there’s no shortage of those opinions in human history – but you’d be wrong, and I don’t even need to point out that it’s prejudice of the most common sort, it’s ignoring basic logic.

      2. @v12beard, then, if it is supposed to be the case that “We’re supposed to have moved beyond a binary culture by now anyway”, why does the world of motorsport suddenly become so squeamish and agitated when, in the past, there have been events where men took the same role as the grid girls? It seemed that a lot of those figures who proclaimed that it was fine and that they didn’t care about gender suddenly did seem to care when it was a man who took that role on instead.

        1. Heh, yeah for people who claim not to care certainly have some pretty strong feelings about it.

    9. Susie Wolff – “Some of the stories I am too embarrassed to tell, because of the fact it makes my sport look so bad.”

      Unless you speak out, we don’t know how far the rot (if any) goes. Giving a sensationalist soundbite with no substance is just that – an attention-grabbing soundbite. But hey, this was a quote from the Sun, which is hardly a bastion of journalism.

      The news coming out of Hollywood is quite eye-opening, simply because it showed us in the public (who had no access to rumours or talk that goes on behind the screens) how pervasive the power/exploitation problem was, how people were turning a blind eye to it until recently, and the recognizable names involved as both perpetrators and victims.

    10. My vote goes to the ones that do qualify to start on the Ultras.
      The purpose of a Safety Car is to create safe working space for the clean-up crews. Monaco is too small an area to be able to achieve this with the VSC. Hence, not likely we will see the VSC for more than a lap then it will be full on SC and a slow one too. Even at a 1:50 SC lap, there will only be 60 seconds of clear track time, if that.
      Pretty safe bet there will be a SC, the only question is when and will there be more than one.
      Maybe they should get Apple or Google to provide a Virtual Grid ……. you fill in the blank.

    11. I wish this tweet had been added in the round-up: https://twitter.com/charlie_whiting/status/1000173411774021632 🙂

    12. Monaco losing lustre? Seems inevitable. It was so glamorous in the 50s-70s…maybe even later. But this decade, it appears more like a glitzy set on a tacky ‘Prisoner’ remake – for mysterious billionaires and F1 drivers seeking shelter from relentless reign of taxation.

      Still fun to watch these stretch-limo racers set lap records while wearing a $30,000 Todt Thong. Disappointed RBR’s thongs aren’t diamond studded. Now that would be lustrous.

      1. Agreed. It isn’t glamorous and neither are the drivers that interesting. It’s like they all need their “safe space.”

    13. Why do l have to accept the decision to get rid of Grid Girls??
      They are part of Formula One.

      Instead get rid of morally shamed who through their own physical and mental ugliness are somehow are influencing the F1 bosses to get rid of the beautiful people so the ugly people will try to feel good about ruining it for all because of their own short comings as never to become a Grid Girl.

      Fast cars, daring drivers and beautiful women were once what F1 was and what it attracted while making tons of money.

      Today the cars are very fast , the drivers quicker than ever but the image is somewhat tainted forcing us to believe Ricardo that a beautiful woman is for some reason a bad thing when combined with F1

      Shame on this damn dumb idea Liberty

      1. The 1980s called, they want their ideologies back.

        1. I think you mean the 50s @justrhysism …the 80s just had those on borrowed time

    14. Isn’t JB a little old for a family? I mean he’s in his late-30s, so way off from the late-20s range when people usually get a child for the first time. Then again, Horner, for example, became a father (for the first time AFAIA) early last year in his early-40s, and Toto again after many years in his mid-40s last year as well, but still.

      1. Tommy Scragend
        26th May 2018, 8:04

        Christian Horner had a child with his former partner in 2013, just before he left her and ran off with Geri Halliwell.

      2. He probably has 50 years ahead of him and is in better shape than most 20 year olds. I think he’ll be just fine as a late father.

        I’ve plenty of friends who’ve become parents in their mid thirties.

      3. Why is someone in their late 30s too old to have children?

        Typically older parents are wealthier and wiser and as such can better provide for their children.

        I take it you’re not a parent?

    15. I like the grid girls. If you want to call it toxic masculinity: I’m poisonous!

    16. Susie Wolff talking about sexism… Susie Wolff… Funny that I didn’t even knew what is her real name. No information on it in Wikipedia also. Why would we listen someone from places that didn’t respect women own name to talk about women right?

      1. @ruliemaulana
        What … on earth … are you talking about? What on earth is wrong with you?

        1. Western women lost their identity when they were married. They use their husband’s name like some property of men. Even Arabs didn’t do that.

          And you’re okay with that?

          1. @ruliemaulana
            Yeah, I’m pretty sure I’m okay with that, because not a single thing you’ve said holds up to scrutiny.
            What I’m not okay with, is your aggressive ignorance. That stinks, plain and simple.

            1. So you’re okay with discrimination that didn’t affect you?

            2. @ruliemaulana
              Kindly bother someone else. I can’t help you.

          2. These days it’s a choice thing. My wife chose to take my name; it wasn’t my decision to make. We have friends who are married but didn’t change their names.

            Utterly ignorant.

    17. I’d trade every current driver on the grid for one James Hunt, a Senna or a Mansell.

    18. Funny to see so many people still not getting to the idea of trying something else than this aged concept of grid girls, glamour, super yachts, millions and manly world that Monaco tries to make survive.

    Comments are closed.