From drivers who collected multiple penalties for exceeding track limits, to those who almost kept a clean sheet, none were satisfied with how the row reflected on Formula 1 last weekend.
Many expressed a desire to see the situation fixed before F1 returns to the Red Bull Ring for next year’s Austrian Grand Prix.Alpine’s Pierre Gasly, who dropped from ninth to tenth due to a 10-second track limits penalty, said the rule requiring drivers to remain within track limits should be relaxed.
“I was chasing Fernando [Alonso], I could see him pulling away and I was like it’s worth trying and taking every risk possible,” he said. “Unfortunately I went once too many out of the race track for maybe one inch, which is obviously frustrating.
“But that’s the rule as it was this weekend for everyone. And I’m going to stop here. I just feel like it will be a lot easier for everyone in the stewards’ room, fans, drivers just to live without it. Anyway, if you go ten centimetres too wide, you’ll damage the front wing and for two centimetres I don’t think it was worth it. That’s the rule.”
Gasly said the track limits rule “definitely need to be reviewed” because of the confusion it causes for fans.
“The answer needs to be properly thought through because at times, we as drivers will always request consistency but in other times common sense just pushes you to have more case-specific and track-specific like this weekend,” he said.
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“When you have 43 lap times in qualifying deleted, it just doesn’t seem right. I had my grandma [watching] in front of the TV she didn’t understand a thing. She was like, ‘what the hell is actually going on? Lewis [Hamilton] is once P1 then two seconds later he’s P18’. It just doesn’t seem right, but we’ll see.”
He said the width of the kerbs in places at the track made it possible for drivers to run too wide.
“It’s better when it’s just a natural limit, and I actually think this track does have a natural limit.
“With these low cars and these big kerbs, you wouldn’t be going faster if you went over but you can kind of go all the way to the limit of that second kerb, and then you get a track limit offence. So I think it’s unnecessary and I know that the FIA is looking at a better solution.”
Red Bull’s Sergio Perez also hopes “it’s something that it can be fixed” for next year’s race.
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The weekend’s biggest track limits offender was Ocon, who had 20 lap times deleted over the three days and copped 30 seconds of penalties in the race, said he had tried to be careful.
After the race he believed he had gone “all the way up to the limit, three strikes” and avoided a penalty. “Then I backed off from there, and I took more margins.” However the stewards later identified six further infringements which led to four separate time penalties.
Tsunoda, another of the most prolific offenders who had 18 lap times deleted in total, said he rarely felt he’d gone beyond the edge of the track.
“I got the warning, but on some of the track limits, I didn’t feel like I was outside of the white line,” he said. “[I don’t know if they’re] being super too harsh or whatever, but like some of the track limits I don’t feel I was outside of the white line. I have to check properly, but it was still pretty bad.”
“It would be nice” for the rules to be changed, said Tsunoda, but he believes “it’s a bit too difficult” to do so in a way that can be applied across all circuits. He suggested using the outside edge of the kerb as the track limit, a practice which was often followed until the beginning of last year, when the rule was changed.
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“I think [using the] kerb is easier. On kerbs at least you feel first from the outside wheel,” explained Tsunoda. “But the white line, you don’t feel any vibration, you just have to adjust it from entry.”
So many potential track limits infringements were identified – over 1,200, according to the FIA – that during the race they were unable to apply penalties as quickly as drivers incurred them. Lewis Hamilton repeatedly asked why some of his rivals did not get penalties and Lando Norris, who followed him early in the race, was asking the same about the Mercedes.
“I mean, if you go wide, you get a penalty, but somehow he didn’t get a penalty. So I’m a bit confused,” said Norris before Hamilton was given a second penalty after the race.
He described how difficult it is for drivers to avoid falling foul of track limits at corners like the final two turns at the Red Bull Ring.
“To stay ahead of a quicker car, who’s got DRS, you’re pushing in every single corner. You have one little snap, you have the wind changes, all of a sudden through the corner you can end up off the track. So the fact you get penalised because of, let’s say, ‘nature’ in the middle of a corner, is a bit of a nasty thing. It’s just very difficult.
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“It’s easy to understand. Of course it makes us look a bit silly from the outside, but it’s also life. It’s just the rules. We have to stick to it.”
As teams realised how many penalties were being issued, they passed on warnings to their drivers, some of which began to drive mor conservatively. “I was holding my breath for 35 laps, 40 I think,” admitted Lance Stroll.
“I used up all my jokers in the first half of the race and I was like, ‘damn, I have to be pretty precise’. It’s tricky here with the nature of the track, high-speed corners, so 71 laps, it’s not easy here.”
While some drivers would like to see the gravel traps reinstated at the final two corners, Norris pointed out two potential drawbacks with this solution. It would pose problems for the Moto GP championship which also visits the circuit, he said, and noted drivers did collect some penalties for going wide at corners which have gravel.
“As drivers, we want to put gravel there like we have on the exit of turn four and the exit of turn six. But even there we get penalised because of the space of two centimetres to be over the white line and not touch the gravel. We get a penalty if you do that, even.
“For me, that’s silly. We should just be able to use the gravel as our limit. If you go on the gravel, we’ve messed up, we make a mistake, we get punished. You can’t do that everywhere because Moto GP races here, and the reason you can’t do is because of Moto GP in the last two corners. That’s where everyone got the majority of their limits.”
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However there was a general acceptance that what unfolded on Sunday had not reflected well on F1. Both Oscar Piastri and Zhou acknowledged the track limits fiasco required a reaction.
“It’s never fun to have to go through a race and work out who’s got penalties, and in qualifying crossing the line and then waiting for a minute to see if you’re in or out because of track limits,” said Piastri.
“I know it’s the same for everyone, but I think we can try and do things to make the spectacle a bit better for everyone. For us as drivers, everyone watching on TV.”
Zhou added: “We need to see what we can take action, maybe make the white line bigger or thicker. But unfortunately what we did on Friday was quite bad for the TV or for the fans watching because it looks not very professional.”
The pair were two of the ‘best behaved’ drivers in terms of laps deleted over the weekend. Rookie Piastri exceeding track limits four times, Zhou twice.
Among the others to dodge a penalty were Fernando Alonso, who went off just three times, while Russell only exceeded the limit once.
Alonso said his tally “shows it’s not too difficult” to stay within the track limits and joked he was “very proud”. However Grand Prix Drivers’ Association director Russell said he “doesn’t take any pride at all in that fact” after he went violation-free throughout the grand prix, while admitting “it’s so, so difficult to stay within” the Red Bull Ring’s track limits.
2023 Austrian Grand Prix
- Mercedes left scratching heads by lack of performance at Austrian GP
- Verstappen’s determination to grab every point makes him a record-breaker
- Austrian GP track limits farce was avoidable like ‘IndyGate’ and Spa 2021 – Brown
- Alpine now “definitely beatable” for McLaren after upgrade – Brown
- Paddock Diary: 2023 Austrian Grand Prix
SteveR (@stever)
4th July 2023, 14:29
Okay, then reduce the width of the curbing to less than an F1 car.
Yellow Baron
4th July 2023, 16:08
Even simpler solution.. just watch Indycar instead
Jim from US (@jimfromus)
4th July 2023, 14:31
Still think super shady activity transpired during the race from race control. If there were over 1000 track limit violations. Since we don’t know the distribution of the 1000, let’s start with distributing them equally across the field of 20 drivers, which comes out to 50 violations per driver. Every 5 violations should be a penalty but let’s be generous and say that 10 violations of track limits is a penalty. That would mean each driver, on average, should have been given 5 penalties. Some could have none, but others would have more than 5. So how were there only a few penalties given during the race. We know that during the race, race control did not provide a full list of violations to the stewards. What other shenanigans also occurred?
SteveR (@stever)
4th July 2023, 15:00
There are 20 cars driving for 71 laps, so each corner has 1420 potential events during the race. I believe the FIA were investigating 1200 events, not that there were 1200 confirmed track limit violations.
David BR (@david-br)
4th July 2023, 17:03
@stever Those violations are indicated by sensors, right? So either the sensors are really bad or they’re accurate but the stewards have some other measure for determining the ‘level’ of violation. If so, it would seem to verge into arbitrariness. Maybe I’m missing something but the disproportion does seem huge and inexplicable.
SteveR (@stever)
4th July 2023, 19:29
No, I believe it’s the old Mark IV eyeball and video replays.
Ruben
4th July 2023, 14:34
Although I feel Liberty’s strategy might head into that direction, let’s not make “Does Pierre Gasly’s grandma understand this?” the central show stopper question for current and future F1 developments.
That being said: the track limit-penalties were rather silly over the entire weekend and under various conditions, so it needs improvement. For the viewer it would be nice to get instant feedback over whether lap times count or not, or how far a driver is away from getting a black-and-white flag. A better, more durable solution would be a natural way to keep drivers within the limits and there’s plenty of ways to achieve that.
Richard Sinanju
4th July 2023, 14:38
Circuits, instead of using flat white lines to denote track limits, should use rumble strip lines (also known as sleeper lines or alert strips) like they do on the shoulders of some roads in the UK, which cause a tactile vibration and audible rumbling transmitted through the wheels into the vehicle.
They’re used on UK roads to alert drivers when they drift from their lane. Especially in areas which suffer from mist and fog.
Not sure how they would affect motorcycles though.
floodo1 (@floodo1)
4th July 2023, 14:40
What is confusing about drivers receiving penalties for going off the track?
MichaelN
4th July 2023, 15:01
That race control (which still has ‘absolute discretion’ over drivers leaving the track) was unable to administer the suitable penalties, and or refer it to the stewards, in a reasonable time frame. I’m all for penalties, but the FIA has to raise its game.
Euro Brun (@eurobrun)
5th July 2023, 13:05
Good to know that their brand new centre of operations is a resounding success
Patrick (@paeschli)
4th July 2023, 14:45
As someone who didn’t really follow the track limit drama before Sunday, it was very frustrating seeing drivers get penalized for supposedly running wide while – for most drivers – ZERO replays were shown of the transgressions. Doesn’t surprise me fans had no idea what was going on.
S
4th July 2023, 15:37
The only embarrassment -or ‘farce’ – here is the quality of driving standards in F1.
There need not be any changes made at all – the drivers all know they need to stay on the track (as defined by the white lines) or risk a penalty. They chose, by and large, to risk the penalties and are now complaining that the ‘system’ is broken as a result.
No surprise that Pierre “I have the most penalty points of all” Gasly thinks the track limits rule is too harsh.
Just imagine an ATP or WTA tennis tournament where every shot is considered to be in, even when it is several inches out. How about a football match where every time the ball goes out it is counted as a goal even when it isn’t. And who wouldn’t love a game of darts where every dart on the board scores a bullseye?
Sports without firm, clearly defined boundaries are the best, right?
The fact that it is difficult to stay on the defined track at full beans in a race car is exactly why it is desirable. If it was easy there’d be no reason to do it, and even less reason for people to pay to watch it.
Reminder to every professional racing driver – if you are on the kerb, you are already pretty close to the track limit. You’ve already got your instant feedback.
And as noted by so many others – the drivers have no trouble knowing exactly where the lines are when it’s wet. Despite the worse visibility…
Time to grow up now boys, this is professional motor racing.
asd
4th July 2023, 16:21
Stop embarrasing yourself with the tennis comparisons!!
In tennis you score points by being within a constrained are. Motorsport is not about scoring points for being inside lines! And shouldn’t be!
You put asphalt where the cars should be able to go. Putting paint on some pieces of the aphalt and imposing abstract concepts to specific paint colours is just nonsensical. Racing tracks should be physical, not abstract and interpreted.
asz
4th July 2023, 16:54
Well, not exactly. Your have to keep the ball within the valid area in a way that makes it impossible for the other player to do the same. It is only then that you score points.
That means your shot needs to be precise (as defined by the rules) but also powerful. Just like a race driver needs to be precise (as defined by the rules) but also fast.
So I think the comparison is not that bad.
S
4th July 2023, 17:56
In motorsport, you compete within a defined area. It’s called the track, and the rules specify it very clearly.
You score ‘points’ in motorsport too – both virtual points (positions) and actual points (for the championship).
Well, it is. If you go outside the lines, you lose those points. Just like in tennis.
They do. They even paint white lines along the edges of it for clarity.
Sometimes, however, safety and commercial considerations are taken into account and additional tarmac is placed outside of the defined track to keep people safe(r) and reduce downtime for recoveries and repairs.
They put grass, concrete or dirt outside of the defined tennis court too – but that doesn’t mean the ball is still in play when it goes there. It’s just a practicality thing.
Mark Zastrow (@markzastrow)
4th July 2023, 16:45
The use of artificial boundaries and lines in more conventional sports is precisely why I don’t care much about them. What was always compelling to me about motor racing, what drew me to it as a child, is that there were no lines telling you where you can or can’t go, or how many points your toss or kick is worth — all that matters are the limits of physics and the abilities of car and driver. The track is an environment, a challenge to explore, like a mountain to scale.
The FIA may have long since moved on from that sense of purity, but it’s still prevalent in the US, with its old school circuits. The situation is the opposite of what you suggest: The white lines are mostly there to save amateurs and club racers from repair bills, but the professionals are allowed to exploit the track to its natural limits.
It’s just a personal observation, but I think one of the side effects of Netflix was the influx to F1 of stick-and-ball sports fans who are perhaps more used to fouls and penalties and have a greater tolerance to active refereeing, whistles, and boundary penalties. And as more and more fans and pundits called for white lines to be strictly enforced in F1, making that same tennis analogy, I started to worry whether the attitude that F1 should be unique from stick-and-ball sports would survive.
So I’ll admit to a bit of schadenfreude to see the growing consternation from many of those same fans and pundits who now label the 1,200 track-limits violations in Austria a farce. This is exactly what they asked for. I respect your take, S, in welcoming precisely these consequences. If that’s what you want to see, I have no argument against it. But for me, boundary penalties are for racing sailboats, not cars, and the general reaction from F1 fans and media is a relief. It seems that there are in fact limits to the sport’s eagerness for white lines.
Bullfrog (@bullfrog)
4th July 2023, 17:02
I’d still hit it into the net.
S
4th July 2023, 17:49
So how would sports work without ‘artificially’ defined areas of play? What actually defines where and how the sport works without them? What separates a sport from merely being a game just for fun?
Motorsports, even before lines were painted, still had a defined ribbon of tarmac. Off that particular strip of tarmac was off the track and out of bounds.
What sports were you watching as a kid?
Ah, sailboat racing! Great example! One of the only sports without any physically defined area of play at all – just a small number of obstacles to go around out in the nothingness.
Road circuit racing has never been like that, though. Even rally has very limited links with that type of competition.
The media will beat up anything that attracts attention – and F1 ‘fans’ come in all shapes, sizes and tastes – but most of them aren’t heard from until they think they dislike something.
I’d suggest that most motorsports enthusiasts (loosely including F1 fans) do want track limits to be clearly and consistently defined and enforced – they just don’t want to see this sort of thing where drivers have absolutely no respect for them and make a mockery of the entire event and series – and the viewing public while they are at it.
The most telling part for me is that it wasn’t even a big deal last year in the same cars when they were new. What’s changed in 12 months? Not the cars’ dimensions, not driver visibility, not the circuit and not the rules… Only the attitudes of the competitors.
This year, they went out of the way (and out of the track) to make themselves look amateur. And they couldn’t have done it better.
Mark Zastrow (@markzastrow)
5th July 2023, 22:17
That’s simply not true. No one was applying out-of-bounds penalties to drivers on the road from Paris to Bordeaux, and even when closed circuits became the norm, the concept of an artificial track boundary was not.
In fact, there is no definition of track limits in the F1 sporting regulations until 2011. That was the year that the requirement that “Drivers must use the track at all times,” and the definition, “For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not,” were added.
That’s also not true, and in fact, it’s the reason why I made the contrast. It may seem as if none are needed, but at the highest professional levels — like America’s Cup and SailGP — a standard windward-leeward course has defined boundaries to keep the boats away from the spectator fleet and perhaps obstacles. The distance penalties are applied instantly by the umpire (which F1 could learn from). Offshore races also have numerous out-of-bounds areas to avoid wind farms, whales, etc. I have sympathy to your view, though — drivers of those boats don’t even have a white line for reference, and you don’t hear them complaining!
I have nothing against boundary penalties in sailing because they are a necessity in today’s world. But when it comes to auto racing, myriad well-designed racing tracks around the world show that artificial track limits are not needed. The reliance on them is a choice that F1 makes — an economical one, and one that it is free to make. But I think it’s difficult to argue that this approach is in the spirit of the sport when it has only been written into the regulations 12 years ago.
I don’t think it’s increased indifference from the drivers. I think that what has changed is the level of enforcement — and also the awareness among teams that they are subject to it, and their determination to ensure that their competitors are, too. I doubt that there were only 43 violations in last year’s race, which was the figure that the stewards said they had noted. The stewards originally also reported a figure of over 100 this year. It was only until Aston Martin protested that the figure of 1,200 came to light. Just as a fan watching at home, it was easy to see during the race that many violations were going unnoticed, including at turn 8, where none were ever officially recorded.
S
6th July 2023, 4:48
There’s always been a defined track – even if it wasn’t as specific as it currently is.
I doubt too many professional races of this type were ever held where drivers were allowed to take a different road…
I’ll take your word for that then, despite never seeing any physical/visual boundaries ever other than some corner markers and some AR lines drawn on TV, as I have no interest in watching boats float about in such a huge field of play with so little challenge to each competitor to stay within it. It’s not at all comparable to a car racing track, IMO, which is clearly defined at all times.
I’m not sure how you decide that they are necessary for boats out in the vast openness of the sea, but not for cars doing dangerously high speeds within a racing circuit surrounded by spectators and hard objects….
Any space that exists outside of the defined track is typically a safety margin. They could put physical barriers or deterrents there, but that would simply be counter-productive for all involved.
Yeah, I saw those too.
Imagine how embarrassing it would be for F1 if they had actually penalised every breach.
David BR (@david-br)
4th July 2023, 17:07
I really don’t get why they both with the track limit stuff. Just let the drivers use the available track and go as wide as they want until the point where it becomes a disadvantage to them. I mean, does it really matter?
MichaelN
4th July 2023, 17:12
Yes, because taking a wider line means they’re faster and closer to the barriers, which are where they are based on the expected speeds on the actual track.
And it looks silly. See the American regional series at COTA.
mrfill (@mrfill)
5th July 2023, 2:37
Its like those terribly inconvenient chicanes. May as well cut them so you can go faster and also if there’s a nice run-off area between two corners, use that to save a few seconds.
Give an F1 driver an inch and they’ll take several miles.
The drivers knew the stewards would be strict on track limits and so were fully aware of what would happen. The lesson should have been learnt in qualifying but no, they chose to take their chances by going right to, and over, the limit and got punished. Well, that’s exactly what is supposed to happen and they all knew it. A few did actually realise this and didn’t get any penalty. The rest just came out with a panoply of excuses which were drivel – such as blaming motogp or Mother Nature.
As Russell rightly said – it was difficult to keep within the limits. F1 is not supposed to be easy and Russell managed to avoid any infraction. They all could have, if they tried.
Andy (@andyfromsandy)
4th July 2023, 17:08
It seems nonsensical by some asking for the track to be fixed. That would be a dumbing down making the corner wider but then the cars would just go wider and the same thing will happen, IMO.
It is meant to be competitive and challenging.
The fix is to introduce technology that takes it out of the hands of the officials who missed most of the penalties or just gave up counting them. Serves them right that AMR protested and they had to take 5 or more hours to do what should have happened real time.
Jere (@jerejj)
4th July 2023, 17:17
I fully understand all drivers’ views, but making the white lines wider is somewhat weird because how could those lines realistically be bigger without eventually becoming as wide as curbing?
As for using curbing as the reference, as was the case often pre-2022, at least for Red Bull Ring’s last two corners, I’d be okay, but I’ve been equally okay with only using the white line (or yellow in Melbourne) as the limit reference.
I repeat one of my suggestions from earlier posts that the last two corners could become a single long corner, like Yas Marina’s T9, which would follow the natural driving trajectory & thus help with staying on track at corner exit.
Jere (@jerejj)
4th July 2023, 17:23
As a side note, I forgot to add that I’m surprised Gasly said inch once alongside cm despite being fully accustomed to the latter unit since growing up not that this hugely matters in the big picture.
Simon
4th July 2023, 20:54
https://rb.gy/urrme
Jere (@jerejj)
5th July 2023, 8:02
lol
S
4th July 2023, 18:07
But using different things as track limits would not only be inconsistent – it would actually be against the FIA’s rules.
Kerbs are not part of the track – and the FIA makes this extremely clear and explicit in multiple documents.
But it’s not natural – at Abu Dhabi they control their driving line and speed based entirely on where the track limit is. If the exit was 10m wider they’d adjust their line and use all the track there too, because it would be faster.
MacLeod (@macleod)
5th July 2023, 8:04
I think some drivers said the white line (edge of the track) was small compaired with the colourfull lines of the curbs (they have also white lines to border the curbs).
I think just a 2m wide gravel trap next to the turn 9-10 would do the trick and wouldn’t harm the motodrivers much and cheap enough.
Pete
4th July 2023, 21:02
After years and years of “why won’t they police track limits!?” we finally reach a point where they are doing just that.
F1 fans: It’d be much better if they just let them drive wherever they like!
:D
Olivier
5th July 2023, 9:20
You cannot change the track layout to your liking by ignoring* the white lines.
If 1000+ infringements have been reported, then it is time to automate the procedure. F1 is a high tech motorsport, so I expect the system to be put in place swiftly.
(*) Having said that, the white lines should only be ignored to avoid contact in wheel to wheel battles. But else, a white line is to be regarded as a wall.
Kevin C (@kev-f1)
5th July 2023, 10:03
I can understand the rational about enforcing track limits for qualifying, where the goal is to achieve the shortest time to improve your grid position. But during a race, unless they are cutting a chicane to bypass a section of track to get an advantage, enforcing so rigidly as was done at the Red Bull Ring was farcical! 1200 potential violations should be an indicator to the Stewards and Race Control that the issue is more about the current weight of the cars or the track layout, not about the intentions of the drivers!