FIA approves Andretti’s bid to enter team, F1 will “conduct our own assessment”

81 comments on “FIA approves Andretti’s bid to enter team, F1 will “conduct our own assessment””

1. 

   Jimmy Cliff
   2nd October 2023, 16:33

   Good BRILLIANT news – now let F1 be the bad guys for trying to block it for pure selfish reasons.
   1. 

      Ajayrious (@ajayrious)
      2nd October 2023, 16:57

      Yeah it will be interesting to see what excuses they come up with to not allow Andretti onto the grid.
      1. 

         reggie747
         3rd October 2023, 20:08

         They’ve already said why they want to block ’em.
         The 200 million squid shared “value” pot is way down and not enough and to be fair, it’s not IMHO.
         200 mill between 10 teams is mere peanuts and IF Andretti starts accumulating points, (ya never know….) well…. !!
         1. 

            BasCB (@bascb)
            5th October 2023, 9:11

            Then again, they keep saying how much they want to see the market in the USA grow – getting two strong US racing brands to join in should be a major asset for that reggie747 to help enlarge the “pie”.
            1. 

               Ferdinand
               5th October 2023, 9:51

               Yes, they are kind of stuck there between two objectives. Interesting to see which one wins. Usually the one that generates the most revenue.
   2. 

      MichaelV12 (@michaelv12)
      2nd October 2023, 17:06

      +1 Excellent news indeed.
   3. 

      MichaelN
      2nd October 2023, 17:18

      Fantastic move by the FIA. It’s high time to break open the FOM not-a-cartel.

      Now, one still has to be realistic about Andretti: it’s more likely they want to join the club, than that they want to somehow be a big change maker.

      They have next to no experience making their own race cars, and their suggested engine partner is a big question mark.

      Still, it’s a nice development.
   4. 

      Facts&Stats
      2nd October 2023, 17:19

      In order to secure its place in the series, Andretti must now convinced Formula 1 Management to agree to expand the grid from 10 teams to 11.

      FOM cannot block them from participating; they can only exclude them from sharing in the price money goodies.

      If Andretti passes the technical hurdles (design and build a car) and other FIA (not FOM) requirements, then they can race if they want to.
      1. 

         anon
         2nd October 2023, 21:07

         Facts&Stats, according to the FIA itself, the commercial rights holder – i.e. FOM – would also be required to provide approval before entry rights can be assigned to the Andretti team, given that the FIA had to agree to a separation of powers with the European Commission over the series that it has regulatory powers over (something that they explicitly referred to in the above statement when noting their compliance with the EU’s competition directives).

         That is why the FIA have only stated that they have given their approval for the Andretti team to proceed with the next stage of the application process. There is nothing in the statement that says that the FIA have given the Andretti team the right to enter the sport yet – all that the FIA have said so far is that they are not going to object if the Andretti team are also approved by the commercial rights holder.
         1. 

            Facts&Stats
            2nd October 2023, 22:56

            Thanks anon</strong,
            I might very well be wrong, but I thought the agreement with the EU guaranteed the full separation of responsibilities; FIA the regulatory responsibilities and FOA/FOM the commercial ones.

            The agreement includes statements like:

            establish a complete separation of the commercial and regulatory functions in relation to the FIA Formula One World Championship

            – to guarantee access to motor sport to any person meeting the relevant safety and fairness criteria,

            How or where does it require FOA/FOM to approve participants to the competition?
            https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX%3A52001XC0613%2801%29%3AEN%3AHTML
         2. 

            MichaelN
            2nd October 2023, 22:57

            “As part of the agreed process of the Expressions Of Interest protocol, the FIA findings on Andretti Formula Racing LLC’s submission will now be passed to Formula One Management (FOM) for commercial discussions.”

            Commercial discussions are indeed not allowed to be done with the FIA after the break-up of the sordid Mosley/Ecclestone mess they had created into the late 1990s.

            However, it only has relevance to this entry process because of the latest Concord Agreement, which – as an aside – is ripe for a court challenge because it’s once again creating a closed-off system in which the FIA, FOM and the existing teams collude.

            Anyway, in the initial call, the FIA therefore noted that ‘For the avoidance of doubt, no new applicant has an automatic right of entry to the Championship and the maximum number of teams competing in the Championship up to and including the 2025 season is capped at 12.’ That 2025 range is the reference to the current agreement; the 12 teams limit is not in the F1 Sporting Regulations; rather it’s actually 26 cars with two per team. So the FIA is admitting that its scheme with FOM and the teams takes precedence over its own rules.

            It’s also why they noted that ‘In the event that no applicant is considered suitable by the FIA and/or by the F1 Commercial Rights Holder, no new F1 team(s) will be selected.’ A third party having a say is also not in the F1 Sporting Regulations. Indeed, Article 8.5 states that ‘All applications will be studied by the FIA and accepted or rejected at its absolute discretion.’
   5. 

      SjaakFoo (@sjaakfoo)
      2nd October 2023, 18:26

      I wonder if FOM has much of a choice here other than accepting. FIA already did them a solid by only accepting one team instead of two or more, which is probably no coincidence. But the fact this will be a more actual American team, rather than the somewhat dubious existing one, will make it hard one to deny. After all, FOM is greatly interested in the US market, and the Andretti and General Motors brands will definitely help in that regard. In the same way, denying them is probably a surefire thing to turn away the patriotic Americans from the sport.

      So yeah, this is kind of a back against the wall thing for FOM. They’ll likely have to sweeten the pot a bit for the existing teams, but I doubt there’s any other outcome than acceptance here.
      1. 

         anon
         2nd October 2023, 20:09

         @sjaakfoo for what it is worth, Joe Saward has suggested that there is a possible problem with the bid made by the Andretti team – he has claimed that the contracts that the Andretti’s previously signed with Renault for their power unit, along with the transmission system and ancillary systems, may have expired.

         Whilst Laurent Rossi was apparently more open to a deal with the Andretti’s, Joe has suggested that Philippe Krief’s priority is restructuring Alpine, Renault Sport and the team in Enstone to improve the performance of the factory team, with a supply deal for the Andretti’s being less of a priority now.

         It is a potentially speculative claim, but if it is indeed the case that the contract has lapsed, it could place the Andretti’s in a position where they might have received approval from the FIA, but now don’t have a way to power their car.
         1. 

            SjaakFoo (@sjaakfoo)
            2nd October 2023, 21:05

            Except there is a rule in place that the manufacturer with the least amount of engine customers has to supply a team in need of engines, so there is no problem here.
            1. 

               anon
               2nd October 2023, 22:12

               @sjaakfoo you have focussed on one part of the deal only – the deal wasn’t just for the power unit, but for the transmission system and the ancillary components required to make the car work (i.e. electronic systems, hydraulic systems and so forth). The regulation that you refer to only specifies a power unit – there is no mechanism in the regulations that states that anybody has to supply the team with a transmission or any other components that they might need to make the car work.

               There are also a few other catches with the regulations you cite – for a start, that regulation only applies to a team that is already an entrant in the championship. The Andretti team is currently not an official entrant to the sport – it has only received approval to open negotiations with the commercial rights holder – so the FIA cannot actually invoke that rule until the point where the team is officially registered as a competitor (which is still some way off).

               Secondly, there is a time limited element in the regulations, as they also currently state that, even if the FIA does invoke that clause, the supply deal is not supposed to go beyond the end of the 2025 season. Additionally, if the FIA wants to compel somebody to provide a power unit, it is also meant to do so by the 1st June for the year before the next season.

               It would therefore mean that, if the FIA wanted to compel somebody to provide the Andretti’s with an engine, that would only work if the Andretti’s are registered as an entrant for the 2025 season before the 1st June 2024. Right now, the FIA’s statement doesn’t seem to confirm that the Andretti’s can actually make that deadline (there is no reference to when the Andretti’s were actually hoping to enter F1).
            2. 

               Facts&Stats
               3rd October 2023, 7:22

               anon </strong,
               There have been quite successful teams (e.g. Brawn) who waited until much later in the season to know/agree PU they would use the following season.

               Nobody claims it’s easy, but technically it has all been done before.
   6. 

      Pedro
      3rd October 2023, 18:38

      Looking to apply as IT engineer to the New Squad!
2. 

   Red Andy (@red-andy)
   2nd October 2023, 16:59

   No Licky Suns? Shame.
   1. 

      Bullfrog (@bullfrog)
      2nd October 2023, 19:44

      Unlucky, son.
3. 

   Dane
   2nd October 2023, 17:05

   So what’s the next step for them? Do the teams have a say if Andretti joins? It doesn’t seem like they are enthusiastic about anyone else getting into their exclusive club.
   1. 

      Red Andy (@red-andy)
      2nd October 2023, 17:08

      The teams/FOM can’t prevent Andretti from entering the sport but they can make it commercially unviable for them to do so by shutting them out of the commercial agreements.
4. 

   StephenH
   2nd October 2023, 17:14

   I was never a fan of Michael Andretti as a driver. But I really hope he gets his team onto the grid and puts the wind up those who only want a closed shop.

   Then I hope they upset some of them on the track as well.

   22 cars is better for F1 than 20.
   1. 

      Olivier
      2nd October 2023, 17:29

      There is something to be said for having only 10 teams. I’d rather have 10 extraordinary teams, than having 10+ so so teams. Some of the current teams could actually do with the racing expertise from Andretti.
      1. 

         Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
         2nd October 2023, 18:33

         I would like to see at least 10 teams that are independent of each other, unlike at present.
         1. 

            Antz (@antznz)
            2nd October 2023, 20:09

            @keithcollantine ownership aside, every teams needs their own engines or a non competing engine supplier to have true independence. It’s not as bad in recent years but teams have usually fallen inline with their engine suppliers on issues (it’s been a while since theres been any bigger contentious issue!). What’s the bet we see similar allegiances with Andretti? Mercedes have been vocal….
            1. 

               José Lopes da Silva
               2nd October 2023, 20:47

               @keithcollantine Allow me to cordially disagree. Having B-teams is sub-optimal, but Toro Rosso/Alpha Tauri is the team that needed the least for sponsoring from their drivers. I regret that Kvyat got ahead of Felix da Costa, but who other than Red Bull would have given an opportunity to Brendon Hartley and Nyck De Vries?

               I’m more bothered for Aston Martin being a 1-car operation because one driver is like Emmerson Fittipaldi in the Fittipaldi team (he can’t be fired), which means no opportunities for new F1 drivers, there. Although I understand that’s a condtition for the team to exist…
            2. 

               SteveP
               2nd October 2023, 21:01

               ownership aside, every teams needs their own engines or a non-competing engine supplier to have true independence.

               So, no customer teams then. Looks like an immediate drop to eight cars on the grid then:
               Ferrari – Ferrari
               Mercedes – Mercedes
               Renault – Alpine
               Honda – RBR

               Of course all non-RBR fans would be happy if Honda had a works team, and Aston Martin, McLaren and Williams would be somewhat miffed.

               You can see the effect of single engine supplier Team lockdown, so I think the issue is more a case of ownership than who makes the engine
            3. 

               Esploratore (@esploratore1)
               3rd October 2023, 2:37

               At least emerson fittipaldi was a good driver at his peak, unlike someone else.
         2. 

            I luv chicken
            2nd October 2023, 23:49

            I can’t wait for more Moneytron girls patrolling the pits.
         3. 

            Ferdinand
            3rd October 2023, 12:13

            In all fairness if no dependance is the objective (which I personally can relate to) that would mean also for instance the dependance of the likes of Williams and McLaren on Mercedes would have to be nullified, which would leave few teams. It would require a total reset.
      2. 

         José Lopes da Silva
         2nd October 2023, 20:42

         I’m the total opposite. I’m a 1989 fan. 2010 is the least bad option. We should have 26, nay, 30 cars on track.
         We need opportunities for drivers to show themselves and try to reach the top echelons. We need spaces for rookies and for also-rans that still did not quit, like Trulli and Kovalainen who were team mates at Lotus F1 races. Chandok should have had more racing time. Max Chilton and Charles Pic problably were no better than that, but come on! This is the top tier! Gives us a ton of cars!
         1. 

            F1 frog (@f1frog)
            2nd October 2023, 23:21

            More cars are always better, and small teams are an important part of Formula 1 because it is a feel-good story when they occasionally get a good result, like Jules Bianchi of Marussia at the 2014 Monaco Grand Prix.

            My preferred system would be to have unlimited cars allowed to enter any given race, and pre-qualifying for smaller teams to make sure only the best 26 actually compete further than that. To reduce costs, teams would not be obliged to enter two cars, and could only enter occasional Grands Prix rather than having to do the full season, so entry fees would be based on individual races rather than full seasons. I would also bring back non-championship races with prize money per race so that big teams might decide to skip them and leave more spaces open for these smaller teams, while this is also good for solving the question of how many races there should be as fans who think there are too many can just watch the 16 or so championship races, and fans who want more races can watch all the non-championship races.
            1. 

               Esploratore (@esploratore1)
               3rd October 2023, 2:43

               I really like this idea, both the cost saving and the amount of races part.
            2. 

               Nick T.
               3rd October 2023, 6:58

               I agree with most of your ideas, but one correction: The too many races issue is mainly about the health and happiness impact has on the families of the workingmen/women of F1 (the mechanics, engineers and other traveling support staff). I’d say 85% of fans agree that the schedule is too hard on them. Yes, I’ve seen some fans start to say there are too many races, but I think a lot of this sentiment was born from empathy for the mechanics (I.E., too many races to watch was really a non-issue, but many voiced it in order to give another reason for less races for their benefit).

               As Alonso said, it’s not a big deal for the drivers as they fly private jets, don’t have to worry about anything from getting to the airport to dealing with immigration, etc., but it’s a horrible grueling experience for the rest of the support staff, especially the mechanics.
            3. 

               MichaelV12 (@michaelv12)
               3rd October 2023, 13:09

               Very good suggestions. I think 16 races is well sufficient for a championship.
               Non-championship races could be interesting too (“Race of Champions”).

               Yes: More teams, slightly fewer races (16), smaller sized cars, single car teams allowed, prequalifying if more than 26 cars present.
               Big teams could enter three cars.

               No: Very opposed to established teams blocking entries for others.
5. 

   Arthur Zakaryan (@arthurgd3)
   2nd October 2023, 17:34

   I am for any change that has the possibility of brining more excitement to F1 and of course there are a lot of unknowns here but I’m still excited to see how this all plays out. The typical driver changes and new racing venues brings it’s own kind of excitement but the addition of a new team and completely new faces in the paddock happens very seldomly as we all know so regardless of what anyone thinks of who the new entrant is, it’s still a reason to be excited. Of course the 26 regs have the possibility to really shake things up apart from this news.
6. 

   Abrams 25
   2nd October 2023, 17:45

   Who will make chassis and engine for Andretti ?
   Honda and Andretti have good cooperation in Indy.
   1. 

      SjaakFoo (@sjaakfoo)
      2nd October 2023, 18:20

      Andretti will make the chassis for Andretti en the engines will likely be Renault.
   2. 

      Nick T.
      3rd October 2023, 7:01

      Currently, it is supposed to be Renault. I believe Honda doesn’t want to worry about having to supply additional teams, especially at first. Even if they were compelled to do so, I doubt Andretti would want to place their bid in the context of being supplied by a de-facto new engine supplier who lost their main UK tech center when they sold it to RBPT as well as a number of engineers.
      1. 

         S
         3rd October 2023, 7:22

         a de-facto new engine supplier who lost their main UK tech center when they sold it to RBPT as well as a number of engineers.

         Honda’s F1 engine program was originally run entirely from their HRD Sakura facility in Japan – any development work done on the engines is still carried out there, and that will continue to be the case into the future.
         Red Bull’s facility is nothing more than a contracted service centre for Honda’s product, and run under Honda’s watch for the primary purpose of reducing logistical burden. Honda have not lost anything at all.

         Given Honda’s current F1 engine performance and Andretti’s ties to the affiliated brand in the US with their Indycar operation, I can’t possibly see why Andretti wouldn’t want to be one of Honda’s partners.
         Honda Japan have other plans for F1, though – and they certainly have no interest in being associated with a race team prominently bearing one of GM’s badges.
7. 

   Zann (@zann)
   2nd October 2023, 18:22

   what a mess he is! honestly he is so unappealing, out of shape and with that silly beard and shades on cloudy days. Cadillac would do better on their own. But who wants 22 cars in Q1 anyway? With them all being SUV sized, queueing up
   1. 

      Imre (@f1mre)
      2nd October 2023, 18:26

      2026 cars are panned to be shorter and narrower. 18 minutes is more than enough for everyone to set a meaningful laptime. It was enough when there were 24 cars qualifying.
   2. 

      Tommy Scragend
      2nd October 2023, 18:28

      Whatever feeble reasons FOM come up with, surely they can’t be worse than “the team principal is out of shape and has a silly beard”.

      Or can they?
   3. 

      The Dolphins
      2nd October 2023, 19:25

      @zann Stefano, is that you?
   4. 

      ryanoceros (@ryanoceros)
      2nd October 2023, 20:18

      Yeah he’s a fat American that doesn’t seem to show a fragment of class. So what??
   5. 

      SteveR (@stever)
      3rd October 2023, 1:29

      What’s with the personal attack re Andretti’s appearance? You can’t discuss the issues, but rather attack the man’s looks? Pretty strange indeed.
   6. 

      Nick T.
      3rd October 2023, 7:11

      Ironic what a lack of class it show to insult someone based on their appearance and a typical F1 snob type argument. People said the same type of thing about Zak Brown who, while I am not a fan, seems to be getting the job done. Even if he isn’t well groomed enough to meet the idea F1 image, he’s just an owner who will not be the face of the team and, even if he was, we desperately need more teams in F1.

      Multiple people have inferred and said “he doesn’t appear to show an ounce of class” simply by his appearance. It also shows ignorance because, aside from any “grooming issues,” he hasn’t made any statements that could be spotlighted as examples. Meanwhile, we have multiple people in the FIA and high profile F1 team members who regularly say things that demonstrate a huge lack of class.
      1. 

         Zann (@zann)
         3rd October 2023, 13:28

         F1 is all about status. STATUS. That includes what they look like obviously, why people wear suits, get haircuts, or look fit. FIT :) Zak can have some status, just not as much as if he was fit. And Michael Andretti does care about what he looks like that’s exactly why that beard and the shades, but they’re a fail, with too much bad food and not enough exercise, and consequently being squidgy, ew
         1. 

            Spencer (@spencer)
            3rd October 2023, 15:10

            Fairly clear that you make not understand how actual “status” is derived. Far more to do with money, power, and influence. At times fitness and style can be emblematic of status, but often times mutually exclusive. I can assure you most of the actual money and power behind the major businesses rarely demonstrate “status ” in the traditional way you are ascribing to. Far more likely to find the hedge fund billionaire who writes the checks in a disheveled state. If you are referring to what F1 brands as their image that is another matter altogether.
            1. 

               Zann (@zann)
               3rd October 2023, 16:29

               you would always have more status if you were in shape than being fat. Someone might be rich as well, but F1 doesn’t need another rich person on TV do they, they want nice to look at, sexy, aspirational, and that’s not Michael Andretti at this point. Count how often the slim TP’s get interviewed versus the fatties. Why do you think fat-shaming is even a thing? Then add on the pretentious bits and there’s Michael A with a big fat zero :)
   7. 

      Darryn Smith (@darryn)
      3rd October 2023, 17:37

      Nothing says “I’m a fat pig and live in my mom’s basement” quite like this comment. I kind of like how he looks. He’s an old rich guy and looks more European in that kind of gone to seed way you see in Italy a lot. Like Flavio for example.
      1. 

         Zann (@zann)
         3rd October 2023, 18:07

         using fat as an insult does undermine your comment lol. But you can like that look no problem, I mean there are plenty of fatter people, he’s not the fattest after all
8. 

   Michael (@freelittlebirds)
   2nd October 2023, 20:20

   How does Audi fit into all of this?

   Is Haas sticking around? Wouldn’t it make more sense for Andretti to buy Haas?
   1. 

      José Lopes da Silva
      2nd October 2023, 20:48

      Audi will buy Alpine
   2. 

      sbewers (@sbewers)
      2nd October 2023, 21:34

      It’s already been announced, Sauber are becoming the Audi works outfit from 2026. The Alfa Romeo branding arrangement is ending. Alfa are rumoured to be in talks with Haas about a branding arrangement there instead.
   3. 

      Nick T.
      3rd October 2023, 7:17

      I wonder if Michael and Jose are joking or follow F1 at all? Sauber becoming Audi in 2026 has been official for more than a year now and Haas say’s they’re not for sale. Naturally, I am sure they’d sell if ridiculously huge offer was made, but buying Haas for a ridiculous amount makes zero sense since they have essentially zero infrastructure and are 100% reliant on Ferrari and Dallara. They can’t even make their own parts.
      1. 

         Michael (@freelittlebirds)
         3rd October 2023, 8:42

         In all honesty, the whole Audi thing has had such a long horizon that I’m not really sure they plan to join F1. I’m joining F1 in 2051!!! I’ll be 80+ years young then and, clearly, it’ll be the right time for me to start a F1 team. All it takes is one board meeting or an economic downturn to stop that from happening.

         Also, why would Audi commit to buying a team whose performance will be completely unknown in 3 years?

         As for Haas, their future has always been up in the air. They have one foot in the sport and another outside.
         1. 

            Ferdinand
            5th October 2023, 9:55

            I agree all it needs is one Board meeting and the whole thing might just simply go away
9. 

   Adrian
   2nd October 2023, 21:01

   Given how dominant RBR has been, you’d figure F1 would want to expand the gene pool to provide more competition.
   1. 

      Ferdinand
      3rd October 2023, 12:26

      The two years of RB maybe, but an even stronger argument is the 8 years of Mercedes before that I would say.
10. 

    GeeMac (@geemac)
    3rd October 2023, 5:27

    I look forward to them being rejected by FOM enormously…
    1. 

       The Dolphins
       3rd October 2023, 5:32

       Why? They’re the first legitimate entry since Haas. They’re backed by real companies, not just some shell companies that front some billionaires. They have a history of motorsport, not just some soft drink or vape company. Why would you look forward to them being rejected?
       1. 

          Nick T.
          3rd October 2023, 7:19

          Maybe it was sarcasm?

          If not, I agree.
    2. 

       S
       3rd October 2023, 6:04

       I’m looking forward to that too, as the fallout and backlash would be epic.
       Few things in F1 can tarnish their image as much as being so overtly selfish, greedy, anti-competitive and out of touch – especially on such a matter as this. Publicly aiming to entice the American audience, while simultaneously rejecting one of the biggest (and most American) names in global motorsport…
       I’ll bet Liberty are feeling the pressure from their American shareholders, never mind their consumers.

       And we’ve already heard reports of the current teams trying to boost the $200m anti-competition fee, in the case of this eventuality…
       1. 

          Darryn Smith (@darryn)
          3rd October 2023, 17:40

          I agree with this. Kind of want to see F1 go down in this way. The new market they are courting is in American and the only name people know in racing in America is Andretti. This would be a huge mistake if they want to keep some of the hype fans through 5 years of one guy winning literally every race.
       2. 

          Ferdinand
          5th October 2023, 9:57

          I agree. It will need them to show their true faces and objectives and blatantly admit they don’t care about the sport
11. 

    GeeMac (@geemac)
    3rd October 2023, 10:36

    Oh it was sarcasm. FOM and the teams don’t want anyone to join…they’ve made that very clear over the last few months.

    I agree Andretti would be a great addition to the sport, but the teams don’t want someone else coming in to take a share of the revenue pie.
12. 

    Cranberry
    3rd October 2023, 12:04

    Can you imagine Schumacher Racing being denied entrance to NASCAR in 20 years time?

    About time something this happens, and it is quite shameful that Andretti has been tripped, sabotaged, and denied at their attempts to join F1. The Andretti family name alone has a long and respectable history in motorsport, and the fact that the family has made motorsport it’s business, and they’re profitable at it, is very respectable.

    How competitive the team is, in terms of their technology, manufacturing, etc., remains to be seen. However, since their financials have been audited and are not deemed an issue to join F1 I truly hope they get to join the grid, then allow the 107% rule to take care of the rest.
    1. 

       Ferdinand
       3rd October 2023, 12:28

       Yes, unfortunately I can since we are way past talking about sports. It’s all about shareholder revenue.
    2. 

       Ferdinand
       3rd October 2023, 12:30

       Sorry interesting mix I made there. I mean ‘revenue and shareholder value’ #editbuttonanyone?
    3. 

       baasbas
       4th October 2023, 7:57

       @Cranberry
       That’s conjecture. There are too many variables which you left out. Instead, you picked one of the least important variables and based everything on that. The name. Well, the name is worth less than dirt if the application is dog poo. And I expect a Schumacher Racing application for NASCAR to be rejected if what they put forward resembles canine feces
       1. 

          Cranberry
          4th October 2023, 9:44

          As someone who doesnt really follow any racing series from across the pond, even I am aware what the name Andretti stands for and that the family’s business is motorsports.

          Ferrari, McLaren, Willliams, Prost, Minardi, just the ones I know without The Google. If I want to find conjecture in this thread, I’d point directly at your reply. There is absolutely no reason to assume that the Andretti entrance to F1 would “resemble canine feces”, and tstarting a racing team just because it’s a family obsession, well that is at the sirit of F1.

          HAAS came to F1 with great fanfare, and their history in motorsport is that they are a well established and well known sponsor of verious motorsports series across the pond. Also, apparently their manufacturing and automation know-how is top notch. But it’s hard to say given that they manufacture so little of their own car in F1, or atleast they don’t really advertise how “HAAS F1” uses “HAAS Automation Inc.” in F1 operations.

          I agree that Andretti’s absence, despite them trying for years now, is more due to financial counter-interests and board room politics. That again, makes it very shameful for F1 how long someone such as Andretti has wanted to join, and was blocked at every turn.

          Want another example? Porsche joining has been speculated for years, but current teams/powers in charge refused to make the engine rules such that Porsche would join. I remember reading articles on this very site, how one Red Team used their unique veto votes to keep the MGU-H as part of the engine formula, and it was well known that Porsche did not want to join if the MGU-H was part of the engine spec.
          1. 

             baasbas
             4th October 2023, 12:48

             @Cranberry
             There was an if in my statement. I think I made my statement logically solid. To illustrate why I disagree on your Schumacher Racing theory, I hypothesized the application to be bad and no racing name, how big it may be should have any weight on the processing of the application… if it is just bad. No conjecture there.

             And actually there is at least ground to think their application might be bad. Last attempts to get a foot in failed. And the way in which they approached it all doesn’t inspire confidence they’ll pull it off. With how it is structured it is very obvious why teams don’t want a new entrant. And the value of F1 (and the teams as franchises) has been going up. F1 desperately want to crack the American market and while the Andretti name might be a great tool they’re very reluctant. And that has to do with the lack of confidence they’ll pull it off again. A failing Andretti will kill of the American market for sure for F1

             With the power of hindsight: it would be so much better if they could have made the Sauber deal work. The timing would have been ideal. It would be the best option sporting wise (no grumpy teams) and financially since teams have gone up in value.
             If anything, I feel they would have the best chance now if they would come across solid and confident, absolutely convincing they would add value to F1. There are just too many doubts at the moment.
             1. 

                baasbas
                4th October 2023, 13:01

                … some text went missing

                A failing Andretti in F1 would be very damaging to F1 but at some point Andretti failing to join and being very loud about it putting F1 away as uptight American hating EU-snobs might start to outweigh it.
             2. 

                Cranberry
                5th October 2023, 7:49

                Andretti joining F1 and failing despite their best efforts, and assuming no boardroom monkey business / political sabotage, would be good for F1.
                Once again a example of how F1 is really the only series where the engineers are in competition aswell.

                One of the best times to watch F1, for me, was I think around 2010 when Force India, Virgin, and Lotus, joined the grid.

                That’s why I really dislike this generation of cars, so many parts on the aero, chassis, and engine are to a common specification set by Ross Brawn. Especially as monitoring the teams spending becomes more sophisticated, I would like to see the engineering be relaxed a little bit. Engine, give them a min and max fuel amount to be used in a race, and limit the engine development based on it’s pollution. Just like road cars.

                Oh, and start making the cars smaller!
             3. 

                baasbas
                5th October 2023, 8:22

                @Cranberry
                I doubt the first part, but I fully agree on the second part..
                Except it will not happen because it is very likely increasing field spread and all those new viewers won’t like it
13. 

    Lapov Onor
    3rd October 2023, 13:30

    Could someone please explain in logical terms (no tin foil required) why so many people are convinced that FOM will reject Andretti?

    Seriously, I have no idea what is making people think this and would genuinely like an explanation.
    1. 

       Facts&Stats
       3rd October 2023, 14:16

       It might be (also guessing) that it is (most of the) ten existing teams protecting their turf (income).
       And as FOM depends on them to be successful (and vice versa) it could be that FOM is willing to listen to the teams on this one, to have some leverage when arguing something that creates more value for FOM (more races in the desert, etc.).
    2. 

       S
       3rd October 2023, 15:09

       2 main reasons:
       Firstly, Liberty have said for several years that they don’t want any new teams. It upsets the balance they have created with the current teams in terms of political power and respective financial reward.
       Secondly, the teams themselves are dead against a new player (even if they meet the $200m anti-dilution fee they requested) as it reduces their earnings and potentially even their own results (further risking earnings). Keeping the teams happy is Liberty’s biggest achievement (and arguably also one of F1’s biggest problems) since taking over – and they’ve done it primarily by offering the teams more money than they had before.

       Or, in only a few words – a new player upsets Liberty’s existing cartel.
       1. 

          Ferdinand
          5th October 2023, 10:04

          Yes, this. And that will have to be weighted against bringing a big name in and more footprint to the US audience. So they are in quite the pickle since they will want both to protect their relation with current teams and expand in the US for which this seems a very nice vehicle. I am going to bet they will allow the entry and somehow make up towards the current teams. It might even be profitable to raise the total earnings pot for all teams if the expanding US footprint can compensate for it. Either way, I am convinced the decision will be based on financials, not on what is the best interest of the sport.
       2. 

          Lapov Onor
          6th October 2023, 19:57

          Thank you, James Vowels just said similar (3 days after you!) from his point of view. This was countered with “but the regs allow 12 teams, of which there are currently 10 so you’ve been benefitting from extra for years!”

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