A new rule which will see Formula 2 and Formula 3 drivers who cause red flags in qualifying lose their times has been welcomed by team bosses.
The addition to the sporting regulations for Formula 1’s leading support series will see any driver who is deemed “solely” responsible for triggering a red flag in qualifying sessions potentially have their best times deleted by the stewards.The new red flag rule mirrors one already enforced in other motorsport series like IndyCar. However, the rule will not be applied in Formula 1 this season, despite complaints over drivers benefitting from errors on past occasions, such as Charles Leclerc and Sergio Perez’s crashes during qualifying in Monaco in 2021 and 2022 respectively.
Speaking to media including RaceFans, Hitech team principal Oliver Oakes applauded the introduction of the new qualifying rule.
“I actually agree with it, because I think there’s nothing worse than someone goes and takes pole by almost ruining the session for everyone else,” Oakes explained.
“I guess it depends if it’s your driver who’s made an innocent mistake or not. I always say with rules like that, you kind of sometimes want them, but then you hate them later on.”
Campos team principal Adrian Campos said he would still expect drivers to push to the limits in qualifying, even with the threat of having their best times deleted if they crash or spin out of sessions.
“In the end, qualifying is qualifying – it’s where you need to take risks,” he said. “Also if you have an accident because you’re risking too much, you will start from the back of the grid in both races. So it’s a risk that every driver needs to take even with this rule.
“I don’t think it will change a lot. Of course, we don’t want anyone causing a red flag on purpose to keep provisional pole until the end, so this also will help for that. But this is something that, obviously, we never thought about, so it doesn’t change a lot for us.”
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Although Formula 1 has not introduced the same punishment for drivers who disrupt qualifying sessions, F2 team principals are not concerned by the inconsistency between the feeder series and the world championship.
“I don’t know why they don’t implement it also in F1, to be honest,” said ART team principal Sebastien Philippe. “Maybe because they have fewer red flags and maybe we are trying something to try to avoid having that many red flags, but I’m not sure it would change a lot.”
The junior categories could be being used to test out the effectiveness of the new red flag rule before it gets considered for future use in F1, suggested Campos.
“I think that, as some other times in the past, when you want to implement something new, until you try it, you don’t know if it’s positive or not,” he said.
“So I guess that this is something that we will be implementing before them. If it’s a rule that is successful and makes everything even more fair, probably they will think about implementing it also.”
But Oakes argued that having parity between Formula 1 and its two main feeder series is not always possible.
“I think in terms of whether we should be close to F1 on rules or not, I think it’s really easy to say we’d like to be – because that’s what the kids watch on TV – but I think it’s actually difficult sometimes,” he said. “There’s so many nuances that are different.”
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BasCB (@bascb)
13th February 2024, 7:23
Yeah, great. Now let’s wait for the absurd consequences of it being bemoaned by Sky and possibly Buxton on F1TV in about 15 races. Sorry, not a fan.
There are other ways to punish drivers if we expect them to do this on purpose. And I somehow hope that at times drivers will be reluctant to even go out to drive if there is a chance of crashing. Or maybe we’ll have stewards overruling the rule in some cases making it a farce? Either way, this is another knee jerk BS rule to me
BasCB (@bascb)
13th February 2024, 7:25
Oh, right, It probably will only do more to make the feeder series bonkers. What happens if it’s due to an engine cutting out again? Or do we think that won’t happen since they promised to have the tech sorted out?
RandomMallard
13th February 2024, 8:04
@bascb I’m sure this will get clarified early on, but I would assume an engine failure probably wouldn’t count as “solely the responsibility of the driver”, and thus they would keep their lap.
Coventry Climax
13th February 2024, 10:16
But that’s typical for FiA rules, they require clarifying, where in my opinion, rules need to be crystal clear to start with, and in how they’re written, instead of open for discussion, depending on judgement and jury votes.
They now have to discuss whether the driver was solely to blame and whether it was on purpose.
Quite silly, when a driver is, and most certainly during qualifying, trying -on purpose- all he can to be fastest.
So now, were discussing the primary objective of racing?
So here, we hear people saying it will make no difference.
But the point of adding rules should be to solve issues and make a difference, right?
Before the rule, the above discussion was exactly the same, so the rule solves nothing, and instead just adds more controversy. OK, potentially, maybe, but I have no doubts it’s just a matter of time before it arises.
I say, if it doesn’t make a difference, then why implement it this way?
Find better solutions to deal with the issue.
Why is a situation like that ruining things for other drivers?
Because they are denied the opportunity to run their laps as well.
Solve that.
drmouse (@drmouse)
13th February 2024, 10:30
Completely agree. We have so many routes which require clarification or interpretation, to the point where you can’t predict how the stewards will decide. This just leads to the impression of inconsistency and accusations of bias.
In this case, I predict that we will see two near identical cases decided differently within the first season.
BasCB (@bascb)
13th February 2024, 14:59
Exactly this Coventry Climax. Since it will need to be decided under time pressure – it could well be that a red flag decides who gets into the next part of qualifying – this is certain to create a mess at some point during the season.
AlanD
13th February 2024, 12:56
In the case of mechanical failure, we’ve seen too many examples of the pit wall instructing the driver to “stop the car IMMEDIATELY, turn off the engine, turn off now” type of incidents, which brings out yellows or reds. I remember a time when drivers were expected to try their hardest to coast the car to an escape point so that they didn’t disrupt the race. That rarely happens anymore. Maybe modern circuits have less escape points, less cranes to lift cars over the barrier etc, or maybe the limits on engine usage mean teams always try to save the engine, no matter the consequences for the rest of the field. So it could be harsh on a driver if the car fails through no fault of his own, but if it discourages drivers from parking it out on track, I’m all for it.
MacLeod (@macleod)
13th February 2024, 8:01
They could evade that by driving more laps instead one 1 ….
Kris
13th February 2024, 7:26
This is a bad idea.
Let’s say a driver currently P3 goes off and gets stuck in the gravel. Red flag, loses P3 and has to rely on their previous time or start at the back of that qualy group.
Same scenario but doesn’t get stuck just trundles through the gravel causing yellow flags. Drivers can’t set a faster time and have to abort laps. Driver who caused it still starts P3.
We want drivers to push and not settle for their current lap. This just makes it less likely drivers will push as hard.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
13th February 2024, 7:29
I don’t believe it will discourage drivers from pushing flat out to set the best possible time because they’ve had much the same rule in IndyCar for years and I see little sign that it’s happened there.
Stephen C Taylor
13th February 2024, 14:26
Problems may come if a marshal hastily throws a red a red for a situation that only needs a VSC/Yellows. Remember the Tsunoda incident in F1 at Monaco a few years back.
chimaera2003 (@chimaera2003)
13th February 2024, 15:35
@keithcollantine I’m with you on this. Watching IndyCar, I have never seen drivers go easy to negate the risk of a red flag. This could be linked to the fact that performance is closer (being a spec series) and the more ‘snakes and ladders’ races making it easier to recover any losses.
Not saying the rule is perfect and without flaws, some have been noted here, but on balance I think it would be a net gain.
MacLeod (@macleod)
13th February 2024, 8:05
I see only good things from this rule we see more laps which is good for our fans. Ofcourse the driver go max out but more then 1 lap…which isn’t bad on these tyres who need more laps to get the right temperature anyway.
Asd
13th February 2024, 8:24
Kris, let us analyze what you said.
Scenario I:
“Let’s say a driver currently P3 goes off and gets stuck in the gravel. Red flag, loses P3 and has to rely on their previous time or start at the back of that qualy group.”
Result:
The driver gets penalized and he knows why. Every other driver who had his quali compromised by him gets consolation knowing the culprit got penalized.
Conclusion:
GREAT.
Scenario II:
“Same scenario but doesn’t get stuck just trundles through the gravel causing yellow flags. Drivers can’t set a faster time and have to abort laps. Driver who caused it still starts P3.”
Result:
The rule doesn’t produce any difference. Doesn’t make anything worse or better, is fully neutral.
Conclusion:
GOOD.
Your judgment:
“This is a bad idea.”
My answer:
WRONG. Your very examples show it is not a bad idea, but a good one.
You supposition:
“We want drivers to push and not settle for their current lap. This just makes it less likely drivers will push as hard.”
Answer:
WRONG. We know from IndyCar it’s never the case.
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
13th February 2024, 8:08
I don’t care if it’s a good rule or not but having different rules that affect the weekend as much as this one between the feeder series and the main one doesn’t make sense in my book. Why punish the drivers that are still learning this much but not the pros, who are supposed to be the absolute best? if anything, shouldn’t it be the other way round?
Asd
13th February 2024, 8:17
“The junior categories could be being used to test out the effectiveness of the new red flag rule before it gets considered for future use in F1, suggested Campos.”
The effectiveness of that rule has long been tested. No more testing is needed, we know what it is and how it works.
S
13th February 2024, 8:30
While I’m all for the idea of a penalty being of sufficient magnitude as to be a deterrent – this rule really is completely redundant. There is already a mechanism within the rules to punish deliberate and/or easily avoidable session stoppages with great severity.
I don’t consider someone competing at the limit in the spirit of sporting fairness to be causing an offence, personally. Mistakes and misjudgements do happen at the limit, and merely suffering the consequences of such themselves is usually deterrent enough. And in the event that it isn’t, the rules already cater for that too.
The best way teams can avoid being at increased risk of a car ahead of them creating an incident is to be ahead of them. Run when others aren’t, and lay down their best lap first.
But this is always a game of risk vs reward – and teams are all too happy to take that risk until they suffer the negative consequences and feel the need to blame someone else for their own strategic blunders. Enter this rule.
Indycar has some decent rules compared to these F1, F2, F3 series – but this isn’t one of them.
Drop Saudi
13th February 2024, 9:28
Agree with S. Well said.
Mark Zastrow (@markzastrow)
13th February 2024, 16:33
It’s not completely redundant — the existing rule does not punish non-deliberate session stoppages, like Leclerc’s shunt in Monaco, while this one would. But you’re right in that it’s fairly limited in scope and won’t come into play very often.
The IndyCar equivalent of the rule arguably makes more sense — it’s certainly less redundant, in that it punishes drivers not only for causing red flags but also local yellows by deleting their best time up to that point if (but only if) the local yellow interrupts another driver’s flying lap. As others have mentioned, I see no evidence that this has caused IndyCar drivers to push less, but it does create a healthy incentive for drivers to clear out after an off and avoid impacting other drivers.
S
14th February 2024, 0:56
And there’s a very good reason for that – no rule should.
The basis of any penalty system (and certainly the entire F1/F2/F3 system, bar this one new exception) is that it punishes an action – not a consequence. If other following competitors are inconvenienced, that’s just the way it is. Be ahead next time.
Not necessarily, though. Probably not even likely, as the stewards would still be making the decision as to whether it was avoidable/deliberate or not. If they don’t determine that it was a deliberate action, they won’t apply this penalty either.
Le Jimster (@lejimster82)
13th February 2024, 10:07
I agree with the rule in theory as long as it’s only applied if a driver has obviously crashed or obstructed on purpose to gain an advantage. The problem comes with how do you prove it was a genuine mistake?
For example with Checo in Monaco, it looks questionable. But you can not prove it wasn’t a genuine mistake of pushing too hard too early unless the driver confesses. Then I look at what Leclerc did one year in Monaco clipping the wall and crashing and I wonder the same. Now more blatant attempts would be Schumacher parking his car and Rosberg doing something similar.
I think Rosberg may have got away with it but Schumacher had his pole position took away.
Long story short, let’s see how the rule works in the feeder series and if it has some negative consequences before thinking of applying it to F1. I do worry that drivers will not take as many risks if such a rule came in place and I could see this ruining a title battle down the line.
Tristan (@skipgamer)
13th February 2024, 10:25
About time! No more Monaco shenanigan’s.
Leksa (@leksa)
13th February 2024, 11:32
What does “solely” mean?
What if the driver is forced to stop because of a technical issue? What about a crash caused by a sudden rain shower? What if the driver sheds some parts or by running wide brings gravel to the track, which requires cleaning? What if two cars collide, and only one continues, does the stopped car receive the penalty? What if a driver spins onto the grass, stops momentarily, and then continues, but the race trigger-happy director has already pressed the red flag button?
There will be controversies.
S
13th February 2024, 12:54
Great question – and this is why the FIA use a panel of stewards to make such decisions.
Exactly as there would be (and was) without this rule.
Coventry Climax
13th February 2024, 16:06
This rule just fixes symptoms.
The issue to be solved is that someone stopping on track ruins the option for others to also still run laps and set a time, as under the current rules, it cuts off their time left to run.
So solve that.
Give them all the opportunity to do their laps. Make up for the lost running time. E.g. stop the clock and set it back the time needed for an outlap, or make it a fixed number of laps to run for everyone, for all I care.
That is solving things at the cause, as it makes it utterly pointless to wilfully crash your car in an attempt to hinder others.
The FiA still lives in the era of corporal punishment, while we all know it doesn’t work and only causes more harm.
S
14th February 2024, 1:08
Give them free new tyres too? How long should they keep extending the session if disruptions keep happening? 2 hours? More?
The only way to prevent cars interacting with and affecting each other is to have them on the track separately – but some people like to complain that that isn’t the type of qualifying session they want to watch, while simultaneously also complaining about the consequences of having them all on the track together…
And nice of you to keep digging the knife into the FIA when they aren’t necessarily the ones creating these rules or requesting they be implemented.
Jere (@jerejj)
13th February 2024, 11:47
Except when something fails suddenly or when making a genuine mistake, which is inevitable at times as no one’s perfect anyway.