Sixth would have been “easy” for Force India without Singapore clash

23 comments on “Sixth would have been “easy” for Force India without Singapore clash”

1. 

   @HoHum (@hohum)
   18th October 2018, 0:26

   My COTD would have to be @mazdachris, but the official COTD and many other comments on Dieters excellent article would eclipse 90% of COTDs. A point or 2; I’m more of the generation that might have nurtured a young mazdachris’ interest in motorsport yet I too no longer really care for much the same reasons. Also the apparently increasing popularity of FE only reinforces 2 of my long held beliefs (and my frustration at FOMs failure to see) 1; Ultimate lap times are far less important than close racing with cars on (or beyond) the limits of control. And 2; much less important, the obsession with LOUD exhausts is a red herring.
   1. 

      ColdFly (@)
      18th October 2018, 8:56

      I do not always agree with you, @hohum, and sometimes get a bit tyred (pun intended) of your complaints about those rubbery things.
      But this time you get my full 100% support (or even 200% which is the new 100% I believe).
      1; Ultimate lap times are far less important than close racing with cars on (or beyond) the limits of control. And 2; much less important, the obsession with LOUD exhausts is a red herring.
      1. 

         Jeanrien (@jeanrien)
         18th October 2018, 9:59

         The increased number of races has also an impact on people quiting watching F1. Money aside, we all have only a certain amount of time we can dedicate to F1. When F1 required to block 12 weekends, it was manageable over one year and even year after year. But when it increases to 21 races, it is unlikely we can all make arrangements to watch all those races (plus quali, plus practice for some)… Then you start to skip some, realize that you are not as engaged as before and slowly starting to drop more and more.

         Winter break is as short as ever and do not let us time to build back our hunger for the next season.
         While I agree that close racing should be one of F1 focus. I also want F1 to decrease the number of races to get our attention back instead of diluting F1 until it has a fading, unattractive flavor.
2. 

   @HoHum (@hohum)
   18th October 2018, 0:44

   Rosberg, blah, blah, blah, FE blah, blah, blah, fuel guzzling F1 series, repeated 4 times in the article from top to bottom.
   F1 must be congratulated for their efforts to get out the message as to how fuel efficient F1 cars are and how manufacturers are using racing to improve the fuel efficiency of their roadcars.
   1. 

      BrawnGP (@brawngp)
      18th October 2018, 7:58

      Its hardly surprising he is trying to make Formula E sound good when he is a shareholder ;-)
   2. 

      BlackJackFan
      18th October 2018, 10:24

      Rosberg, blah, blah, blah…! Enough said. But Villeneuve the same…
      1. 

         Robbie (@robbie)
         18th October 2018, 14:21

         For now my thoughts on FE are that electric cars are far from green other than in the fact that they don’t literally burn gas to propel themselves. Other than that, they are every bit as polluting to manufacture and to transport to venues etc etc. Batteries have much toxicity to them and their manufacture and disposal is far from green. Meanwhile we have already been experiencing a merger between electric and fossil fuel with the hybrid cars that they have now in F1, more powerful and faster than ever while using 30% less fuel. And the electric power that is required to charge the batteries has had to come from a power generating station. Unless the power supplied to FE venues comes from wind turbines and solar, which also take fossil fuels to manufacture, then how green is FE? Don’t get me wrong I’m not some fossil fuel dinosaur that hates the thought of electric cars and saving the planet. I just question how green they really are and how high the demand really is. Sure, car manufacturers need to jump on board to appear environmentally conscious, but when electric cars sales are minuscule, especially when government rebates are withdrawn, I just think electric transport is further away than many like to make it sound.
3. 

   ferrox glideh (@ferrox-glideh)
   18th October 2018, 2:06

   When an FE car can qualify for an F1 race (107%) and do a full race distance without recharging/changing batteries, then we shall see how F1 and it’s core fans will adapt. Until then, I’m going to primarily follow F1. That being said, Formula E has figured out the neat trick of racing in the center of big cities because of the lower noise and “greener message”, which is a pretty savvy business model and is probably good for motorsport in the long run.

   I think FE should embrace the quietness of the cars and thereby also do away with their ugly dance music. Talk about pollution.
   1. 

      Robbie (@robbie)
      18th October 2018, 15:18

      I don’t know if it is so much about figuring out a neat trick of racing in big cities, as IndyCar has been doing it for years, like in Toronto for example. I think it is as much about taking the FE racing to the people because if they paid to use dedicated racing venues and hoped for a big enough turnout to the races that way, it would not fly as a business model…at least not yet anyway.
4. 

   Tristan (@skipgamer)
   18th October 2018, 7:01

   It was good to see the issues brought up in the RacingLines article, but in part I feel that is because it’s the exact sentiment that has been floating around here for a while now. And it can be seen how clearly it indeed resonates with the audience.

   At the end of the day these aren’t new issues, except the Brazil thing, which Liberty are showing how easily they can be walked over. we just need to wait and see what the new regulations are, what the new commercial contracts are and what the new TV right deals are, once they are announced.

   Judging the future of Formula 1 by the current state of it is pointless. With only 2 racing seasons between now and 2021, hopefully the future will start becoming clearer and then it will be useful to make analysis and see if they are heading in the right direction.
   1. 

      Robbie (@robbie)
      18th October 2018, 14:03

      @skipgamer I agree completely because I have been saying similar things all along. We are in a transitionary time where we are still stuck with leftover cars and contracts etc from the BE era, and Liberty has had a very short amount of time so far to affect things as they see fit.

      I have always felt that any new business, or new business owner deserves their day in the sun to apply their twist in the plot and see if they can make a go it, whether that has them succeeding where others have failed, or succeeding along with others, or ultimately failing.

      As the article points out, many of the aspects that appear to be conspiring against F1 are outside their control, so I prefer to be grateful for what we have, grateful that a new entity has cared to take over the reins and make a go of it, and grateful that they have been saying and affecting the right things to improve F1. They’ll never get it perfect as every era has carried issues and things to complain about throughout the history of F1. They will never please everyone.

      Some people obviously have found themselves just not feeling it anymore, and whose to argue with how someone feels about something, but for myself I’m still with F1 and Liberty and Brawn, and am exciting to see what they can do as time goes along and they shed themselves of the BE era and make F1 their own, knowing I’m sure full well all of the things going against them that will make their task a difficult and complicated one. I’m grateful they’re there trying to do the right thing. I’m compelled to keep watching and keep supporting their efforts because I see improvements ahead, and because I am simply compelled to watch. I can’t let it go, nor do I have thoughts of doing so.
5. 

   Martijn (@)
   18th October 2018, 7:33

   Would have, could have, should have at Force India. Is there consensus on whether it was mostly Perez or Ocon? They touched so many times I lost the story line. What I do know is that Perez has Alonso skills off track.
   1. 

      Manel
      18th October 2018, 9:35

      Ocon pushed Perez off track in Baku 2017. Ocon tried an impossible undertaking in Belgium 2017 and Perez’s move to the right made the incident look very dangerous. Perez touched (unnecessarily) Ocon in Hungary 2017. Ocon left very little angle to Perez in Singapore and their rear tyres touched (look at the lines of both cars throughout the corner). So … both drivers have lost their cool here. No surprise that Ocon lost out by not getting a seat at the moment. He has been aggressive only against his teammate and not against other drivers. He was so naively undertaken by Alonso in Spain 2018 and Verstappen in Belgium 2018 and do not remember any remarkable undertaking. Teams may think twice about a driver that feels empowered only when he sees the teammate in front and not others. Again, in this fight both drivers lost. But I think Ocon underestimated Perez and thought that he could easily outclassed the teammate. But Perez never had issues with previous teammates and has given a lot to FI (in terms of results, financials, and dramatic corporate survival). So, again, no surprise he has lost out in the teammates’ fight.
      1. 

         abel
         18th October 2018, 12:43

         +1
   2. 

      Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
      18th October 2018, 15:40

      @mayrton According to Ocon, Perez apologised to him.
      1. 

         LMB-F1 (@luis)
         18th October 2018, 22:38

         Keith, Checo apologized, not because it was his responsibility to clash with Esteban, he apologized for not entering into more controversy, Checo always has everything to lose.
         Example, what Vertapen did against Kimi in Japan, is unacceptable, … leaves the curve, does not re-enter the track through the indicated area, returns to the track at half a curve, invades the track completely from left to right, not only he does not give space to Kimi, he hits him, ruining Kimi’s career, … and what happened ?, … Career incident, … with Vettel equal, … so every Verstappen crash, career incident, not only does not criticize him, what happens is that they praise him.
         With Ocon something similar happens.
         All the incidents between Checo and Ocon, Pérez is responsible, or at least takes the heaviest burden.
         Let me analyze in a different way the incident where Checo apologizes.
         The aerial shot gives me the best view, before entering the curve on the right, remember that there are two small curves one followed by another, right, left, Sergio knows where each one is before entering those two curves, rear the right has a Hass, and just behind him is his companion, naturally he leaves space to not meet the Hass, Checo is looking ahead, also something happens in front of him, just coming out of the first corner Esteban makes a sudden movement and leaves its natural formation, Ocon is imprudently placed on the right side of Checo, the next corner is on the left, Sergio is looking to the left, not on the right, Sergio leaves space to Haas even knowing that it goes further back , preventing a touch, last time Sergio saw the mirrors Ocon was in formation behind him, being a curve to the left and out accelerating to maximum, the natural glide of the Pérez car is on the right, Checo does not know that Ocon is there, and they touch each other.
         As it is possible that Ocon spills tears blaming Checo for his movement, it is a closed circuit, there is no space for some additional movement, Esteban is seeing all the action in front, how is it possible that he did not calculate the Sergio movements?.
         Esteban applies that of Vertapen, the press and the fans wrap it up, they are never guilty.
         Checo apologized why he did not see it, and had no way of seeing it, but Sergio did very wrong to apologize, that incident is entirely Ocon’s fault.
         Keith in saying that Sergio apologizes, are giving the reason to Ocon, Checo apologizes to the team, but not for the incident.
         The Incident in Singapore is 100% responsibility of Ocon.
         It is always difficult to argue with the referee, and with Esteban’s fans, … greetings Keith.
         1. 

            Manel
            19th October 2018, 3:49

            Great analysis
6. 

   Racingman3000 (@racingman3000)
   18th October 2018, 8:05

   Daily reminder that Force India would be 4th in the constructors if they were allowed to keep their points.
7. 

   Joao (@johnmilk)
   18th October 2018, 9:34

   I find it very funny after Dieter’s article yesterday we get an article from The Times urging F1 to have another race in the US, a country that historically didn’t, and appears as though it still doesn’t care for the sport. We don’t need to pretend the US will solve the interest problem in F1, they are concerned in going there because they have purchasing power.

   If you want to spark interest again take Mexico as an example. Just the other day I was in Estoril because there was a small concentration of old cars, including a few F1s, I couldn’t even park the car to take a peak! The place was packed, imagine what would have happened if it was an actual grand prix. They need to look at places where people feel like this about motorsport.

   One of the things @mazdachris said yesterday was that there is no innovation anymore, I nodded beyond reason when I read it, but week in week out, we are reminded that F1 has to be road relevant. Anyone remembers F1 trying to be it? It eventually was, but teams are restricted to the road relevancy rule book, everyone does the same thing and there are no out of the box solutions.
8. 

   Jere (@jerejj)
   18th October 2018, 11:13

   ”but they could lose four points if Haas’s appeal against Romain Grosjean’s disqualification from the Italian Grand Prix is successful.” – And that is a very big if, and also very unlikely. They should just accept that they broke the rules, which they indeed did, and move on rather than attempt with this useless/pointless appeal since they don’t have a realistic chance in getting their desired outcome anyway.

   – Regarding the COTD: The tyres itself aren’t really the problem. It’s got more to do with the difficulty of following another car, which thus, requires quite a big delta to overtake the driver ahead without him making an error on quite a few circuits. If following another car wasn’t such a struggle then the teams would be more willing to take the risk of getting into traffic by making an extra pit stop(s) as the risk of getting stuck in that traffic would be lower (hopefully, the 2021 aero changes would adequately address this problem). Furthermore, the tyres at present are already very durable especially when compared to the 2011-16 seasons, but again, due to the importance of track-position emphasized by the long-standing problem of following another car it’s a better option to run more conservatively to reduce the risk of a need for an extra pit stop than to make those one or two additional stops and potentially get stuck in traffic.

   – And finally: No, F1 doesn’t need another US race, or definitely not ”quickly” at least.
9. 

   Peppermint-Lemon (@)
   18th October 2018, 13:05

   I expect F1 & FE to merge, with 100% certainty.
10. 

    pH
    18th October 2018, 16:18

    The comments in the Peak F1 thread are indeed worth reading. I’d like to add a wider perspective.

    There is a shared experience among people who teach at technical universities: The interest in technology, the curiosity about what makes the world click are waning in the coming generations. We choose our students from increasingly smaller pools of applicants. Fortunately we still manage to find some really good students to push progress forward, but for quite a few years there has been a serious lack of good mid-level engineers in industry.

    The reason is obvious: Trying to understand things is much less fun then playing on computers and mobile phones. Moreover, the mechanical side of our civilization seems to have reached a sort of steady state, we are rarely impressed by some breakthrough along the lines of steam machine or space ship. Today the miracles of technology come from the field of electronics, which attracts the brighter kids.

    You can see this population shift in many places. Just two quickies: 1. When I was a kid, almost every boy used to put together paper models of things (some more, some less), many boys were making simple electric gizmos. Starting in 1990’s, the magazines that catered to these hobbies went extinct or shifted their focus to adult customers. Ditto producers of plastic model kits.
    2. While it did a great job with computer-oriented Mindstorms, Lego completely abandoned its efforts to produce mechanical sets that would shed light on real world engineering. The last Lego car featuring differential, steering, suspension, engine and transmission was released in 2001, more than 15 years ago. Advanced Technic sets are clearly aimed at – you guessed it – older men with money.

    What does this mean for Formula 1? It is trying to fish in a lake that is drying out. Consequently, there is little hope that numbers can be brought back to what they were before. This does not mean that F1 should give up on changes. I could draw a list of things that I would love to see implemented. But the fact is, such changes would only help F1 keep fans that it has gained 10, 20, 30 years ago.

    I am not going to pretend to understand the new generations, but my gut feeling is that F1 will not impress them with technical side of things. They (most of them) simply do not care about technology, unless it fits neatly in their pockets and goes beep when switched on. Perhaps you can catch them on emotions – but the competition in this particular backyard is pretty stiff and I have no idea how to do it. Anyway, this would mean a complete change in what F1 is. And that is how I see the future of F1. It will either downsize (vintage series, like old-timer races now) or change in such a way that it will stop being interesting to “original” fans. Good luck Liberty.
    1. 

       Robbie (@robbie)
       18th October 2018, 17:11

       As someone who has been involved in the hobby industry for years, you are right that plastic model companies have been catering moreso to the adult market, but at the same time they have always had kits for the youth as well. Model building is still alive and fairly well, even if not as big as it used to be. That is not to say you are not right about kids and their electronic devices…that’s plain for all to see. What I have also seen though is a certain percentage of parents that try to encourage their kids into things like hobbies, specifically to get them away from so much screen time. Youth fitness has taken a hit for the same reasons…too much screen time. And in regards to screen time, some of the participants are now racing cars on better than ever racing games, and there are Championships for that too.

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