No progress on Racing Point prize money row since Abu Dhabi – Steiner

46 comments on “No progress on Racing Point prize money row since Abu Dhabi – Steiner”

1. 

   JC
   10th February 2019, 0:29

   @keithcollantine you need to renew your SSL certificate
   1. 

      Kiran Nesarajah
      10th February 2019, 6:16

      Seeing the same thing
      1. 

         Patrick (@anunaki)
         10th February 2019, 7:23

         Same here
         1. 

            Phylyp (@phylyp)
            10th February 2019, 7:44

            Seems fixed now with a cert good to 2021.
            1. 

               Jimmi Cynic (@jimmi-cynic)
               10th February 2019, 19:57

               Post 2021 we’ll see certs with bigger aero security and less down force…er…time.
2. 

   Jimmi Cynic (@jimmi-cynic)
   10th February 2019, 0:39

   2021 will be interesting indeed. Biggest aero change in over 30 years – now with a budget cap!
   1. 

      DB-C90 (@dbradock)
      10th February 2019, 7:05

      Can’t see the budget cap being in force by then @jimmi-cynic and of course the big teams will have spent all their money for the new designs in 2020.

      That’s IF the new regs actually get written in time, something that looks more and more unlikely.

      I don’t expect much change until about 2023.
      1. 

         Robbie (@robbie)
         10th February 2019, 13:59

         @dbradock They have spoken of stating the 2021 regs by this June and I see no evidence that won’t happen. 2021 is Liberty’s first opportunity to really improve F1. I’m not sure what changes for 2020 you are talking about that will cause them to ‘spend all their money,’ but I suspect any changes will be relatively minor again, because a full ground up restoration will be happening for 2021, and the teams will have ample opportunity to adapt for the whole new chapter. By this June Liberty will have completed all the consultation with the teams that they have been doing, and will spell out the new regs.
         1. 

            Phylyp (@phylyp)
            10th February 2019, 15:01

            I’m not sure what changes for 2020 you are talking about that will cause them to ‘spend all their money,’

            @robbie – I think @dbradock is referring to the rich teams spending an uncapped amount of money in 2020 towards the 2021 car before the cap kicks in. If 2021 heralds a new set of technical regulations, that might allow them to design a majority of the car outside the cap, and only worry about fine tuning (and yearly incremental updates) once the cap takes effect.

            @jimmi-cynic @dbradock – IIRC, we’re still looking at a glide path for the budget cap, aren’t we? So the capping starts very loosely in 2021, but only gets more restrictive over the next 3 years.

            I agree that we’re likely to see engine reg continuity into 2021 as well given the absence of new entrants. Aero & chassis will definitely change due to the larger wheels set to be introduced in 2021, however.
            1. 

               Robbie (@robbie)
               10th February 2019, 15:44

               @phylyp It is because of the glide path you speak of that I see no reason to suggest the teams will spend all their money in 2020. And if you ask these skeptics here, there won’t even be any change for 2021, so why would the teams spend all their money in 2020?
         2. 

            DB-C90 (@dbradock)
            10th February 2019, 16:46

            It’s petty simple really. The big teams with uncapped budgets will have the budget to work on redevelopment for the 2021 regs (if they indeed are announced by June and that’s still no certainty) we’ll before any budget capping comes into effect and will also have the benefit of the proposed (but also by no means certain) glide path.

            They’ll be so far in front of all the other teams it will take at least until 2025 for them to catch up.

            The only chance a smaller budget team would have would be to abandon any development for the second half of 2019 and all of 2020 – something that perhaps Williams or Mclaren might want to consider if they start 2019 badly but they’ll wait to see if in fact the 2021 regs actually become a reality.

            Going to be an interesting time over the next 4 months.
3. 

   James Coulee
   10th February 2019, 1:06

   A very lucid COTD!! And I agree fully with it!
   1. 

      Retired (@jeff1s)
      10th February 2019, 7:49

      So do I, F1 is not a show. Take it as it is, either boring or entertaining.
      1. 

         graham228221 (@graham228221)
         10th February 2019, 9:17

         amazing. in what other sport would the “fans” say “oh yeah, it’s boring but we have to watch it anyway”?
         1. 

            GtisBetter (@)
            10th February 2019, 10:06

            Football
         2. 

            rpaco
            10th February 2019, 10:29

            They are also making it more difficult, more expensive to watch. Or more delayed and with more of it missing if you watch the highlights. This will often put them in competition with tv evening prime-time programs. Its as if they don’t want anyone to watch! Them when you finally get the small remainder we are allowed the subtitles are obscuring the top of the leader/timing board.
            Bernie did smash and grab deals take the most money, will Liberty care about loosing so much of the audience? By 2021 most of us will have given up!
            1. 

               Robbie (@robbie)
               10th February 2019, 13:45

               Cotd states F1 was never supposed to be a show, and then proceeds to claim it was meant to ‘showcase’ the auto industry and drivers talent, lol.

               Whatever F1 was meant to be depends upon who you ask I suppose, but what is relevant is what it is today, and what Liberty wants it to be going forward, and I think it is and has to be several things at once…a show, a competition, a sport, and therefore inherently entertainment. I don’t try to sort out if it is one thing or another, for I think it is many things. Nothing will change that come the end of the day a driver sits in the cockpit and puts all that has gone into it to the track against the other drivers, with the help of their teams. And that is going to put on a show for us and entertain us in this sport we love as they compete for trophies and prize money, and it all exists because it is a business too, where sponsors pay to market their brands via the entity.
         3. 

            Paul Heppler (@paulheppler)
            11th February 2019, 9:24

            Curling
4. 

   Tristan (@skipgamer)
   10th February 2019, 1:59

   I agree with the words of the comment of the day, but disagree with the spirit. Yes one team dominating is dull for those who don’t understand the work involved, and yes the sport isn’t what it once was… But the value of purely making a fast car pales in significance to the value of having an audience of hundreds of millions of viewers exposed to your product as being worthy of competing in F1, that audience at least by majority is there to be engaged by that competition.

   We also shouldn’t excuse one team dominating as part of something unavoidable about F1. Sure you can point to strings of dominance and say it’s always happened, but there have been tightly contested seasons too, and I know which ones have engaged me more.
5. 

   Stephen Crowsen (@drycrust)
   10th February 2019, 6:36

   Listening to the sound of the Honda engine, it seems to loose “revs” very quickly and quite quietly. I’m guessing this is a combination of a high compression ratio, a very light weight flywheel, and no fuel injection when the throttle is cut.
   Also, as others have said, there’s some sort of certification problem with your server.
   1. 

      Jere (@jerejj)
      10th February 2019, 7:29

      @drycrust I thought I was the only one who initially struggled to enter the site.
      1. 

         @HoHum (@hohum)
         10th February 2019, 19:46

         No Jere, I too was warned I might be being targeted by scammers trying to steal personal info.
6. 

   Stephen Crowsen (@drycrust)
   10th February 2019, 6:40

   It’s infinitely more researched than any other regulations ever, but that’s not difficult, because there was zero done before.

   I thought the high rear wing used prior to the current regulations was because of the work of some sort of Overtaking Working Group.
   1. 

      Darryn Smith (@darryn)
      10th February 2019, 8:39

      Yeah. I’ve been watching for a long time and they have been trying to solve this for a long time. Multiple Overtaking Work Groups. Remember the split rear wing concept? Which makes me think they don’t really want to fix the “problem” of overtaking and never will. All the “Ross Brawn will fix it” gets old after a few decades. Which leads me to agree wholeheartedly with the comment of the day.
      1. 

         DB-C90 (@dbradock)
         10th February 2019, 9:57

         Until moveable wings and ground effects get put firmly on the agenda, I don’t think they’re seriously addressing the issue either.

         There is always going to be turbulent air – why not focus on giving the following car tools to address it rather than trying to change the dynamics of the leading car.

         The other thing that they should be looking at is the amount of marbles being thrown – after a few laps , it’s almost impossible to try an alternate line to get a better overtaking option because the minute they move off line in a corner, their tyres pick up so much rubbish, they’ve lost a second or two.
         1. 

            Robbie (@robbie)
            10th February 2019, 15:04

            While it is an exaggeration to say there was ‘zero’ research done, I think we all know by now that the Overtaking Working Group had little opportunity to really do a thorough job for which it’s findings would be instigated genuinely. The group barely got off the ground before it was stifled and the big teams were handed power to do what they wanted, and making themselves easier to pass was not in their best interest at the time. Nothing sustainable came of the group’s work, hence the likely reason for the term ‘zero’ being used.

            Of course they want to, and are in the process, and will fix the problem now that this is no longer the BE era, and now that Brawn has legitimately put together a team, with two actual cars nose to tail in a wind tunnel, the findings of which they will instigate for the 2021 and beyond era. This is unprecedented which is why it is so frustrating to hear the pessimism around here.

            And of course there will always be turbulent air behind the car in front. But of course for one thing cars can be made to minimize their wake, and at the same time at a minimum relegate the teams to not being able to make as much wake as possible, as they’ve been doing. And of course cars with smaller wings would be automatically less negatively affected in dirty air. The smaller the amount the cars depend on clean air, the smaller the negative affect once in dirty air. And having good mechanical grip can always be there, with the proper tires, to be a bigger proportion of the aero to mechanical grip ratio.

            Do you folks not understand the logistics of what is going on? Liberty has barely gotten started, have laid out a plan that will soon be formalized, have stated that certain contracts need to run out before they can do certain things, have said all along no knee-jerk reactions which is what we all wanted, have an unprecedented team researching closer racing, and have said all the right things about what they want for F1 going forward, and by the sounds of it have the teams on board that change is needed and is afoot. I don’t get this attitude that nothing is changing and nothing will. It’s ridiculous.
            1. 

               bosyber (@bosyber)
               10th February 2019, 17:12

               Thanks @robbie, I very much agree with your post here. It takes time, and probably small steps, but there is solid research and regulatory work being done to improve, and at least not let the situation deteriorate in the mean time.
   2. 

      @HoHum (@hohum)
      10th February 2019, 19:49

      Depends on whether you regard a discussion as research or not.
      1. 

         Robbie (@robbie)
         11th February 2019, 14:03

         @hohum I regard the research Brawn and his team are doing with a car nose to tail in a wind tunnel as nothing short of ground breaking for F1.
         1. 

            @HoHum (@hohum)
            11th February 2019, 20:05

            @robbie, I agree, my fault for not quoting what, or to who, my comment referred, which was pre-Liberty “Overtaking working groups”. It was not expected to appear under your post.
7. 

   Jere (@jerejj)
   10th February 2019, 7:37

   I agree with the COTD on one-team dominance. That’s indeed something that not only has happened before many times but probably is going to happen again someday.

   I, like others, am looking forward to seeing how revolutionary the changes set for 2021 are going to be like in the end. Although, the budget cap is something I wouldn’t be surprised if it wouldn’t get to come into effect after all. How realistically could such a thing be policed is what I’ve always questioned about it as has many other people as well.

   I really like the Honda sound. It’s usually been my most favorite V6 turbo sound each season. The 2014 Mercedes sound was/is enjoyable to listen as well, but the more recent spec Mercedes PUs not as much.
8. 

   KaIIe (@kaiie)
   10th February 2019, 8:02

   2014: the biggest rule changes ever.
   2017: no no, this is the most significant change!
   2021: guess what?

   Guess every few years we’ll have a revolution instead of an evolution of the rules.
   1. 

      DB-C90 (@dbradock)
      10th February 2019, 9:52

      And every major change seems to happen just as the various teams performances start to converge which allows the big teams to leap ahead again.
      1. 

         Robbie (@robbie)
         10th February 2019, 15:20

         Yeah let’s just ignore that this is no longer the BE era, and that Liberty are working toward doing F1 in a better way and making it a better product. Let’s just pretend they don’t exist, let alone give them a minute to affect things for the better.
         1. 

            DB-C90 (@dbradock)
            10th February 2019, 17:00

            @Robbie, it’s nothing to do with BE or Liberty, it’s a simple fact that every time there’s a major set of technical changes, the big teams have the ability to respond to them better and faster.

            After a few seasons their advantage erodes and we see a convergence. I’m hoping that the next set are designed to produce just that, a stable framework that will last more than a few years before being torn up. To a degree there could be a distinct advantage in minimising the changes to the current technical regulations as it won’t generate the massive sorts of gaps we saw in 2014.

            I’m also not quite so positively inclined towards Liberty as you appear to be. Most of their focus seems to be on changing race formats, adding more races and their own TV app than the actual “racing” aspects. “Ross will fix it” just doesn’t do it for me I’m afraid as I’ve yet to hear anything from him or his group that is more than some motherhood statements about what would make racing better without real substance.
            1. 

               Robbie (@robbie)
               11th February 2019, 14:10

               @dbradock But of course the real substance is mostly behind closed doors for now, as they consult teams and develope their plans for when they can actually affect them which is after the contracts that expire in 2020 expire, and after the teams have been given a lengthy notice and time to adapt for 2021. It seems like you have wanted Liberty, or whoever it was going to be, to come in and immediately ignore contracts and start making knee-jerk reactions, which is something Brawn said right off the bat he wasn’t going to do. He has wanted to consult and get the teams as on board as possible with a new direction post-BE, and that sounds like it has been working. Not sure what more you could want. That they are researching in a wind tunnel is a massive change for F1. That you haven’t seen all the results from that is natural for now.
9. 

   Phylyp (@phylyp)
   10th February 2019, 10:19

   Asked at the launch of the new Haas livery on Friday whether any progress had been made with Liberty in the 10 weeks since that decision was made, Steiner said:
   No, not yet. Nothing. No discussions.
   Not talking about that one today. That’s for another day.

   Purely out of curiosity, this is something I do want to hear about, though. It is probably a good acid test of how Liberty are handling things.

   That said, I don’t know why Steiner’s not saying anything about it (i.e. legal reasons, or just not wanting to air dirty laundry), but it is refreshing to see something in F1 not being negotiated via the media (unlike Bernie).
   1. 

      ruliemaulana (@ruliemaulana)
      10th February 2019, 11:52

      @phylyp I wonder why Steiner said ‘Not talking about that one today’ was because there no new progress on the issue or it was because he had been asked about Racing Point on Haas event.
      1. 

         Phylyp (@phylyp)
         10th February 2019, 15:06

         @ruliemaulana – hmm, possibly, yes.
      2. 

         Stephen Crowsen (@drycrust)
         10th February 2019, 22:13

         I thought Haas had got some “compensation”.
10. 

    ruliemaulana (@ruliemaulana)
    10th February 2019, 12:17

    COTD was somewhat right. In other sport like football or athletic we still love the sport even there were a domination for years by some. But other sport regulators never had a rule to the less competitive players to restrict their skills development.
11. 

    Lenny (@leonardodicappucino)
    10th February 2019, 14:00

    My opinion on domination in F1 are as follows: I am willing to put up with it. I have watched at least 185 out of the last 194 races live. My passion for F1 lasted through the 2011 and 2013 seasons of RBR domination and 2014-16 with Merc domination, and I’ve switched over to pay TV when this became necessary. However, a lot of people don’t share this same sentiment. F1’s greatest asset is it’s massive global audience. As people turn away, so do sponsors, and especially those at backmarkers. Why do McLaren and Williams lack sponsors, even though they are some of the biggest F1 teams with the most history? No one wants to associate themselves with a losing team. If the grid is closer, and we don’t have teams that are as dominant, more teams have a chance of winning, of being on the podium, more teams have a chance to put their sponsors in a positive light. ‘The show’ may not be important to the hardcore fans, but it is to the casuals. And without casuals, F1 will not and cannot survive. I am an opponent of DRS, and I would like F1 to be a competition about the best drivers and best cars. However, I am definitely not an opponent of better racing and closer competition, especially if without it, F1 will not survive. F1 regulations were made, until very recently, for two reasons: for cost cutting, or for safety. Why did we need to spice up the show? Because tv audiences were no longer interested in just the best drivers going as fast as possible in the fastest cars. And because without the massive tv audiences and big manufacturer bucks, only two or three teams are able to not go bankrupt, if only two or three teams can win. Ten years ago, in 2009, there were five teams capable of fighting for at least podiums. Brawn, Red Bull, McLaren, Ferrari, Toyota were getting regular podiums, while BMW Sauber, Renault, and Force India also got podiums. Eight teams got podiums, but that was the beginning of the end of competitiveness, with Toyota and BMW Sauber dropping out at the end of the season, and Force India dropping down the order, not being able to keep up the insane development money that Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari, McLaren, and Renault could spend. What F1 needs is to control costs, and then make a large regulation change to level the playing field to stop the big bucks manufacturers (inc. Red Bull) to spend big beforehand to get the most out of the regs.
    1. 

       Lenny (@leonardodicappucino)
       10th February 2019, 14:01

       Wow. That was the most rambling comment I’ve ever left on this site.
       1. 

          Andy
          10th February 2019, 16:01

          Yeah, if I see a big wall of text without paragraphs then my eyes glaze over and I skip it.
          1. 

             Johnny Five
             10th February 2019, 17:03

             Shame on you – you missed some very good points.

             You’ve also illustrated very nicely that the “content” (meaning the contest for engineering excellence, in F1 terms) is overlooked by the casual audience if it’s not accompanied by an appealing “presentation” to make it easily digestible by the ignorant (of the engineering details) masses who prop up our beloved sport with their pay-TV subscriptions, and their choice of watches and cigarettes after exposure to the real and virtual advertising.
12. 

    grat
    13th February 2019, 3:27

    Until I hear that F1, like NASCAR some years ago, is putting two full-size F1 chassis into WindShear, or something equivalent, then I disbelieve that serious work is being done on improving overtaking.

    There’s plenty of money floating around in the F1 ecosphere, there’s no reason the teams can’t do an honest-to-newey aerodynamic study on how to improve overtaking while maintaining downforce.

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