Bahar ‘determined’ to win right to call team ‘Lotus’

2011 F1 season

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Nick Heidfeld, Renault, Monaco, 2011

Group Lotus chief executive officer Dany Bahar says they are “more committed than ever” to secure the use of the name ‘Lotus” in F1 despite their defeat in the high court last week.

In a statement issued by Group Lotus, who sponsor Renault, Bahar said the company were appealing the ruling to clear up “confusion” among fans and “F1 commentators who use the word ‘Lotus’ interchangeably for both teams”.

Here is the Q&A issued by Group Lotus today:

Following the result of the naming rights court case, is there an update regarding Group Lotus’ F1 involvement?

Dany Bahar: The judgement grants Group Lotus the rights to use the name ‘Lotus’ and the Lotus roundel on their own within F1, we are, therefore, even more committed than ever before to our long term plan within the sport.

“The Judge also found that Team Lotus, run by 1Malaysia Racing Team, has the right to continue to race in F1 under the name Team Lotus and using the Team Lotus roundel.

“As a consequence, it is inevitable that the similarity of the names Lotus and Team Lotus will cause confusion not only amongst F1 supporters and the wider public, but also amongst F1 commentators who use the word ‘Lotus’ interchangeably for both teams as demonstrated throughout the season so far.

“With the full support of our parent company, Proton, we are seeking leave to appeal so that this point can be clarified for the benefit of all interested in F1.

“With regards to our involvement with Lotus Renault GP, as Lotus we stand united with Genii Capital and have every confidence in the future success of Lotus Renault GP.”

This must have also been an interesting time for your parent company Proton. Does this have an impact on your relationship?

DB: “They have followed the court case with great interest and like us, they are looking forward to the matter being brought to a close. More importantly than the on-going F1 naming issues, the past year has been an extremely important one in Group Lotus’ history and Proton has played, and continue to play, a crucial role in our development.

“One of the most critical elements of this support has been assisting us in securing the funding for our future plans. I am happy to confirm that this is now all complete thanks to Proton’s help and, together with Proton, we can focus on completing the five year business plan to return Group Lotus to profit.

“We have an incredibly strong relationship with Proton, they support us 100 per cent and frankly this is really important for a company like ours. Part of the business plan is the joint development of a global small car platform meaning that for the first time in the Proton Lotus history, the relationship will be mutually beneficial. This alone should demonstrate how close we are.”

With F1 and a complete new car line up, there seems to be a lot going on at Group Lotus, what’s the status regarding Lotus Cars and your activity in motorsport generally?

DB: With road cars we’re in a good position, we’ve completed year one of a five year plan and we are making good progress on the development of the new Esprit which will be the first of the new models to go on sale.

“Based on the feedback we have received since the unveiling in Paris from customers, the media and the industry, we have made some adjustments to our plans. For example, feedback regarding the Elan showed us that it was too close in style and positioning to the Esprit, and so as a consequence we have delayed the delivery of the Elan – delayed not cancelled. This allows us to focus more of our attention on the Evora which I believe has fantastic potential.

“We are now concentrating our efforts on making sure that the quality of the Evora matches its undeniable performance. Another major development that has come about as a consequence of the feedback we received is that we are now developing our own engine to use in our future cars, creating even more the ‘pure Lotus experience’.

“With regard to motorsport, everyone always asks about F1 but for us, it’s not just about F1, given that motorsport in general is a key ingredient to our marketing strategy. We have always been and will always be an automotive brand that is associated with racing.

“Congratulations to Nick Heidfeld on his result in Monaco, when he came in eighth to earn valuable points that pushed him up a place in the Driver’s Championship to sixth; whilst Tony Kanaan did a great job coming fourth at the Indy 500.

“We want to win though, not just participate. But we don’t expect everything overnight, we start slowly and gradually build up our presence in a way that makes sense for our business. Look at our involvement within IndyCar, we started last year with one car, now we have three and from next year onwards we’ll be offering engines. People always question the cost but, believe me, if we couldn’t afford it we wouldn’t do it.”

Lotus naming rights row

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    Keith Collantine
    Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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    124 comments on “Bahar ‘determined’ to win right to call team ‘Lotus’”

    1. F1 commentators who use the word ‘Lotus’ interchangeably for both teams

      I can’t think of many examples of anyone who might be termed a ‘commentator’ referring to Lotus as Renault.

      If you’ve got any please share them below…

      1. The only person I’ve ever heard refer to the Renaults as Lotuses was Sebastian Vettel when Nick Heidfeld got the podium in Malaysia. In the commentary, they’ve always been careful to clarify between the two teams.

        1. Thats the only example i can think of too. Some say Lotus-Renault’s but thats it. Oh and when they talk about Team Lotus, ofc.

          1. Same here. Maybe one or two drivers, but thats it really.

          2. jsw11984 (@jarred-walmsley)
            2nd June 2011, 21:41

            Mostly I hear them being called Lotus-Renault’s or just Renaults never just Lotus

      2. dyslexicbunny
        2nd June 2011, 20:28

        I don’t think the Speed guys mix them up either. I believe it’s just Lotus and Renault.

        1. I remember the SPEED guys referring to them as Green Lotus and Black Lotus early on in the season, but that was in context of explaining the whole mixup, and intended in a somewhat ironic or mocking tone I believe. It seems Bahar has trouble understanding sarcasm.

      3. is he watch the race at all?… I mean via LIVE telecast on TV

      4. Guilherme (@the_philosopher)
        2nd June 2011, 22:32

        I think our commentator here, Galvão Bueno, did call Renault as “Lotus” for some time at the beginning of the season, however he’s saying Renault now.

        I think it’s funny, Bahar talking about confusion between the two teams and all. You never hear someone saying “the Vodafone team” or “the Malrboro team”. Renault is just Renault, and Lotus is only a title sponsor. As such, it’s name should only appear on press statements. I think commentators and journalists should move to clarify that to the wider public, or else we might also start saying “AT&T” before Williams everytime we want to talk about the team.

        1. But something like that happens here in Asia. In the Star Sports commentary Steve Slater, the lead commentator, always refers to Mercedes as Petronas Mercedes. Nobody else on the commentary team does that. A personal sponsorship deal perhaps.

        2. Pedro Sobota
          3rd June 2011, 17:29

          They also call Red Bull “RBR”, Toro Rosso “STR” and Virgin “VRT” here in Brazil which is irritating as I guess their sponsors which are competitors of Red Bull don’t want they to say “Red Bull” on air and so on. Let’s call McLaren “MC” and Ferrari “F”, how about that.

      5. In the german press, especially the non-motorsport press, I’ve seen it several times that Renault is referred to as Lotus-Renault.
        I wonder what Bahar paid them for that…

      6. Reading this story I was just about to rage-post this very point. You took the words right out of my mouth Keith, no-body calls them Lotus!

      7. Steve Slater, Star Sports. He has occasionally called them Lotuses – straight as. He now calls them Lotus Renaults. The only other team he calls in a similar vein is Petronas Mercedes. The rest are called by their chassis names.

      8. I can’t think of many examples of anyone who might be termed a ‘commentator’ referring to Lotus as Renault.

        Martin Brundle actually said Lotus Renault when Heikki’s engine died a few races ago.

        As a consequence, it is inevitable that the similarity of the names Lotus and Team Lotus will cause confusion not only amongst F1 supporters

        No confusion from any F1 fans I know, I think you have racing team envy there Danny, you are just a title sponsor.

        I did get confused when my sister got out her Vodafone Blackberry Curve, for a moment there I thought she was rocking a McLaren in her handbag.

        1. Martin Brundle actually said Lotus Renault when Heikki’s engine died a few races ago.

          That makes sense to me – like saying Red Bull-Renault or Williams-Cosworth.

          But you’d call Renault ‘Renault’ in the same way that you’d refer to Ferrari or Mercedes.

          1. That makes sense to me – like saying Red Bull-Renault or Williams-Cosworth.
            But you’d call Renault ‘Renault’ in the same way that you’d refer to Ferrari or Mercedes.

            I put that mistake down to the Renault engine as well.

            The Renault thing is odd since its not really a Renault anymore, it goes to show I took the hypocritic oath because I applaud that my fav team in Renault is still in F1 but I dislike Bahar and his goons at Lotus.

            Re Miskates; If you want to see mistakes use the subtitle function on your TV, one error of note was instead of “an outbreak of rain” was “quali stopped due to an Outbreak of TIGERS!”
            RUN AWAY RUN AWAY!

            1. Really? When was that?

            2. Spa, quali rain.

      9. “Let’s ask ourselves some convenient, softball questions”… This kind of fake Q&A formula always makes me laugh.

        Also, the “confusion” argument is just silly and pretty tired by now. I can’t think of a single person who’s genuinely confused by it or has problems distinguishing these two teams. So they have similar names. Whoop-de-doo. No one has any problem telling them apart, everybody knows who drives the green cars and who drives the black ones. It’s a non-issue.

      10. I think David Coulthard called them Lotus at Spain

      11. Has DC not reffered to them a few times as Lotus on the commentary on the BBC??

      12. On RAI the main commentator calls Lotus Lotus and calls Renault Lotus Renault, but that’s the only case in which he uses the main sponsor as part of a team name.

    2. I do remember Coulthard mention the Lotus when it was Petrov in Australia. Never since though.

      1. yeah, coulthard’s said it once or twice, but always by mistake.

    3. We want to win though, not just participate. But we don’t expect everything overnight, we start slowly and gradually build up our presence in a way that makes sense for our business.

      if he wanna start slowly and gradually; why in the hell he waste time in court; when he can co-operate at minimal cost with Team Lotus and avoid all these legal mess.

      1. Your right. Didnt they want to start at the top end of the grid,thats why they went to Renault and not with TL?

        1. Clearly Bahar is just lying for the sake of some PR spin.

          1. I think he has to go on till the end as he probably had to promise the people paying for all of it that he would sort out the matter of Fernandes team.

            He might have bet his ar$# on it. I saw some interesting thoughts from Saward on how they are doing right now. I would be suprised, if Proton is not looking for an easy getout now.

            Renault wanted to get the team off, but now they still have it. And Lotus has not much to gain from just being a sponsor for big money.

            1. Wow, very interesting, thanks for the link.

            2. Wow, very interesting article. Many thanks for the link, BasCB.

              Personally, I’m not sick about this Lotus vs. Lotus saga. It’s another political storm which adds an extra bit of spice and interest to F1. Like the Max Mosley in a cellar in uniform. Or Crashgate. It all adds for extra reading when the cars are not on the track.

          2. At the end of the day, it is great for Lotus as a brand. It keeps getting mentioned everywhere, it’s a word that everyone remembers now.

            1. The Last Pope
              3rd June 2011, 4:09

              Still, Thats not going to make anyone want to buy a Lotus when they could buy a Ferrari for the same price.

      2. Funny thing is, as nothing more than a sponsor he barely even counts as participating…

        1. Yes, we don’t get Vodafone bosses been interviewed every two minutes for McLaren do we.

          1. And as far as I’m aware, Infiniti aren’t using Red Bull’s success to claim they are winning formula 1.

      3. This is really what I’ve been wondering.

    4. So Lotus are spending lots of money making 5 new cars to compete against Porsches & Ferraris.. spending lots more money sponsoring a F1 team who uses another car companys name.. and now spending even more money to clarfy the name ‘Lotus’ for use in F1. How on earth are they making any money ? It must be a pretty big cash pile for them to use @ Proton Hq.

      Anyone else find it really patronising or getting fed up that they say that people watching F1 will confuse Team Lotus with Lotus Renault? Lots of people who watch F1 know more then just the names of some car makes and can tell the differences.

      1. The worst thing is, even Proton itself does not have that pile lying around. They had the Malaysian government arrange friendly banks to loan it with govt. guarantee!

        Yeah, the cars look different, the teams are different and act different, so why would anyone confuse them?

        1. No idea. Sounds like wishful thinking to me. The two teams aren’t even competing. Perhaps if they were it might matter.

          1. Well, with the rate at witch Renault seem to be getting stuck where they are and Team Lotus are improving, they might be fighting on track by the middle of the season!

            1. Fair point ;)

      2. Dont forget commiting finances towards developing an IndyCar engine. And bodykit. And an LMP2 car.

        1. And that track car (the 125?).

          1. Yep. That too.

          2. And ART in GP2, while the link with Renault could have given them title sponsorship with DAMS pretty much for free…

      3. There is a somewhat valid point with the confusion. Renault has Lotus on its rear wing, but it’s not Lotus at all…

        But Bahar would’ve been better served by working with Tony (who can fund that team on his own), and conserving Proton’s own funds to build road cars. Then again, Dany’s always wanted to run an F1 team (see Red Bull, Ferrari).

        1. It’s not about the fans being confused at all. It’s about it being the last legal leg they could hope to stand on before admitting after 20 years that proton the car company has spent a billion dollars attempting to steal colin chapman/david hunts formula one team. Ok they wont admit to that but they will give up on the legal stuff and probably the lieing to unless they want to get sued. It has already been ruled there is only one team called lotus and they have the rights to the history.

    5. The New Pope
      2nd June 2011, 20:46

      Sure. Whatever you say, Renault.

      1. now I’m confused :(

        1. The New Pope
          2nd June 2011, 22:25


          1. Let’s not forget Lada.

            1. A Renault powered Proton-Lada

      2. COTD! :D

      3. The Last Pope
        3rd June 2011, 4:12

        Why do I have these dopplegangers?

    6. Justice Peter Smith was very clear in his judgement: when Team and Group had their 1985 agreement they put in a clause about if GL wanted to go into F1 and there was also TL, TL had to use ‘Team’ with ‘Lotus’ at all times and Group COULD NOT, this anticipates the very situation we have now. And the orchestrators of the agreement didn’t see any confusion in having Team Lotus and another Lotus team not at all connected to TL on the grid. So that continues through to today, and there is no confusion.
      When Max Mosley was called as a witness, he said that Lotus was a special case because of the history of the team. So there would be no confusion because fans understand. It’s not like someone comes and decides to start a second Williams team when they have no right to the name.

      1. Yeah, I found reading the ordeal very interesting. From what the judge writes, it looks like an almost zero chance in an appeal about this matter.

    7. I think I’m going to enjoy Bahar squirm. A lot. Group Lotus are now stuck in F1 paying for a team referred to 99% of the time by the name of another car manufacturer. That’s what Bahar is upset about. He wants everyone to call Renault “Lotus” and no-one will do that when there’s another Lotus team out there already.

      1. And he should be. I would think this has his seat rocking heavily by now.

      2. He seems to take nothice of everything but the facts. And perhaps the most important fact is, that team in Renault. Doesnt matter what the paint job is, or how big they write the word Lotus, or even if the team insits on referring to iself by its convoluted name.

        As a constructor, they are Ranault. To the FIA, they are Renault. To FOM they are Renault. To the world, that team is Ranault. Bar post hypnotic suggestion on a global scale theres not a thing he can do to change it. Im not confused, and neither are the rest of the fans – its incredibly insulting to state that the situation confuses us.

      3. People are just as likely to call them Lotus as they are to taking Red Bull and calling them Infiniti. Perhaps he should have done more than just stick the name on the side and also not done so when there was already a team with an almost identical name.

      4. To be honest I don’t understand why he cares so much. He’s got 4 F1 cars going around the track all over the world with the LOTUS name plastered all over them. If he was Ferrari, Porsche, or some other high profile company I could see him getting upset but its Lotus! Give me a break!
        If it wasn’t for this no one would ever be talking about this car company.

        1. Exactly. Which other company in F1 gets free advertising from a rival team on track! He should have kept his mouth shut from the beginning and not done this Renault deal. I bet there are a lot of F1 fans out there around the world that would have bought a Lotus road car by now if it wasn’t for Bahar’s ugly mouth.

      1. And that when they need to ramp up to about 5 times current production to break even in the next years!

    8. MVEilenstein
      2nd June 2011, 21:41

      Really don’t care anymore. Wish this story would go away.

      The black cars are Renault. The green cars are Lotus.

      1. This. So true.

    9. that court decision is as pathetic as the mess it was supposed to resolve. team lotus, you are team lotus. lotus-renault, you are renault, or genii, or whatever, as long as nobody else is using or has used the name you pick. if you are unable to pick an appropriate name by the beginning of the 2012 season one will be appointed to you, probably “team donkey dung” or similar.

    10. The situation of having two teams with the name Lotus in F1 was caused by Bahar in the first place, he went and sponsored the Renault team and insisted on putting Lotus at the front of the new name. He is a typical American, if he can’t get his way he’ll sue someone. Just stop wasting your money and invest in Group Lotus before Group Lotus goes out of business.

      1. MVEilenstein
        2nd June 2011, 21:53

        Typical American?

        1. Matt Pepprell
          2nd June 2011, 22:37

          Yes, typical American indeed. One that happens to be Turkish. A simple Google search informs us of this

          1. LOL so true

      2. dyslexicbunny
        2nd June 2011, 22:23

        Except he’s Turkish by birth and was raised in Switzerland. But thanks for painting us all with a single brush.

        1. Your american? Never heard you want to look at NASCAR going in circles etc. So how can that be ;-)

          1. dyslexicbunny
            3rd June 2011, 12:48

            My doctoral work feeds my innate American love of watching something go around in circles – whether it be me or overpaid chumps.

            1. LOL big time!

      3. Dany Bahar
        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

        Dany Taner Bahar (born Taner Bahar 1971 in Istanbul, Turkey.[1]) is the Chief Executive Officer of Group Lotus Plc having joined in September 2009. Prior to joining Lotus, Bahar was employed at Ferrari S.p.A..[2][3]
        [edit] Personal life

        Bahar moved to Switzerland after his family emigrated to the town of Silvaplana in the mid-1970s. His father was an electrician and his mother worked part-time in a hotel.[1]


        1. Pedro Sobota
          3rd June 2011, 17:48

          Somehow I now know that Dany Bahar’s mother worked part-time in a hotel. Maybe this whole story has taken enough hours of attention from me already.

    11. MuzzleFlash
      2nd June 2011, 21:49

      From Wiki:

      “This article is about the Formula One team which started competing in 2010. For the 1958–1994 motorsport team, see Team Lotus. For the team that merged with Pacific to contest the 1995 Formula One season as Pacific Team Lotus, see Pacific Racing. For the team that is sponsored by Lotus Cars and races as Lotus Renault GP, see Renault F1.”

      That sums it up for me.

      1. COTD for this one.

    12. we are now developing our own engine to use in our future cars

      That’s the most interesting he’s said. The more potential F1 engine suppliers the better.

      1. I think hes referring to road cars. I think the only motorsports engines they are producing are the new V6 turbos for IndyCar and thats being done by Judd I believe.

        1. With the in mind, McLaren are developing their own engine for the MP4-12c are they not?

          But like I said, it’s just a potential situation.

      2. Only if the grid expands to accommodate more teams. As things stand we have 4 engine manufacturers. PURE is likely to have an engine ready by 2013. There’s also talk about how Porsche and Honda may be interested in returning. Add Group Lotus and I don’t see how it’ll be sustainable to have 8 engine makers with only 12 chassis constructors.

      3. If only they’d supply Team lotus with some, then it can look like

        Lotus Team Lotus
        Lotus Renault GP

        Then theres 3 (count’em) uses of the word Lotus on the grid. If that doesnt sell lots of Pond Plants, i dont know what will… oh no wait!!

        1. The Engine Manufacturer always goes second, so it would be:

          Team Lotus Lotus
          Lotus Renault GP Lotus

          At the moment it is:

          Team Lotus Renault
          Lotus Renault

          If the engine is the same only one name is used i.e. it is Ferrari not Ferrari Ferrari. So this is why we currently have Lotus Renault and not Lotus Renault Renault. But Team Lotus is different to Lotus, so if they used Lotus engines it would be Team Lotus Lotus.

          Did you follow all that?

          1. lol.. very confusing..

            Lets just see what happens next year. I believe it will come down to who has more money..

    13. On a side note, I wonder what Carlos Ghosn has to say about all this. Renault gets all the publicity of running their own team, and they’re probably the only major manufacturer making a profit out of F1 now.

      1. He’s propably laughing so hard when asked about F1 that he can’t say anything anymore.

    14. He also said Proton and Lotus are developing a small-car platform. Are Lotus making any FWD cars in their new line-up? Or is it a Fiat X1/9 sort of thing with a small car front-end fitted to the back?

    15. Good, Fernandes is exceedingly annoying to listen to so it won’t hurt to knock him down a peg or two.

      1. And yet you don’t find Bahar annoying to listen to???????

    16. I don’t find the two teams indistinguishable at all. One’s a Renault and the other one isn’t! :D

    17. What a snake, why not buy out team lotus!! Then tony fernandes can sponsor or buy renault! Renault would have a pretty big chunck of f1 money aswell, wouldn’t it? Maybe Renault caterham!! What engines do caterham use, maybe he could use a renault – package deal that benifits all!!!

      1. why not buy out team lotus!

        Because Tony Fernandes will never sell. The reason why Group Lotus went to Renault in the first place was because they felt Fernandes miused their name in 2010 and no longer wanted to be associated with them.

        1. He’ll sell – at the right price. He can always use the Caterham name. But the price would be so ridiculously high, Proton can’t afford it.

          Given the court’s ruling, I suppose it’s only fair if Dany felt that way about Team Lotus. But surely the better business logic would’ve been to let bygones be bygones and help Tony promote the name for much cheaper?

          1. The phrase “fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me” springs to mind. Group Lotus evidently didn’t want to risk the same thing happening again.

        2. PM, fine if you have arguments, but stop writing things that are just not true. Bahar never had the intention to go with Fernandes from the moment he set foot into Lotus Cars, he has clearly stated so himself.

          The complication there was, that he came to late to prevent the Lotus Racing deal being made and then looked at ending it ASAP already in december 2009.

    18. This is so stupid. Lotus Renault used to be Renault F1, which used to be Benetton, which used to be Toleman. Throughout the history of F1 it has been an ENTIRELY different team to Team Lotus.

      This ploy by Bahar is ridiculous. Has anyone heard his embarrasing keynote speech audio, the guy couldn’t even tell which DECADE Lotus had last partnered with Renault!!!

      Everyone supporting Renaults use of the Lotus name have been bought off, it is so sad to see.

      1. Throughout the history of F1 it has been an ENTIRELY different team to Team Lotus.

        But – and this is a very big but – Lotus Cars want to acquire the team from Renault. Renault have made it pretty clear that they’re cashing their chips and leaving the sport as a team (though they will stay on as engine suppliers). Lotus Cars want to buy the rest of the team; that’s why they became title sponsor. And they’re looking to do that for 2012. Which means that while there might be a Lotus and a Renault now, soon there will be a team run and owned by Lotus Cars and a team run team run and owned under the Team Lotus name. And that’s the right Dany Bahar is fighting for: the right to run a team under a name that he has full rights to and sole ownership of. The presence of Team Lotus on the grid denies him that right, despite the fact that the courts agreed he and Group Lotus were well within their rights to terminate the licencing contract they had with Tony Fernandes in 2010. The fact that they were entitled to break the contract in the first place combined with Fernandes’ acquisition of Caterham makes a very strong case for Fernandes being able to comete under a different name. While Bahar might control the likes of Proton, Lotus Cars has had a pervasive programme of sponsoring teams in multiple disciplines of motorsport. To run a Formula 1 team under the Proton name means that the company would stand to lose millions in various investments.

        1. Only problem with all that is that Renault dont own the team, Genii Capitol mostly own it. And its not for sale. Renault is the name of the chassis and nothing more. Renault supply the engines to the Renault team in the same way they supply the engines to the Red Bull team. Lotus/Proton are sponsors so dont own any of the Renault team. Also, if they change the name of the chassis then they lose all the money from FOM for racing the previous year.

          1. Also, if they change the name of the chassis then they lose all the money from FOM for racing the previous year.

            Sauber changed their chassis named between 2010 and 2011 without incurring a penalty. It would appear that teams can go through a transitional year to safeguard their earnings.

            1. They have to get all the other teams to agree to the change, what chance for Renault?

            2. Only because the other Teams agreed. Bahar is not liked within other F1 teams (Inc Team Lotus!) so you can be sure other teams will not agree to a chassis name change without penalty.
              Sauber run using BMW money in 2010, I seem to remember reading that was why they didn’t drop the BMW part till this year.

            3. The reason why they waited was the FOM money. And the Concorde agreement allows you to change name once in 3 years maximum.

        2. The judge said that Lotus can be called Lotus. (Obviously this is dependant on Commercial factors within the Genii Team). Thats what they wanted! Now they are upset for a separate reason, that Team Lotus can remain Team Lotus.

          Until Proton put their money where their mouth is and give Genii enough cashola to change the Chassis name to Lotus, there will be ab black car ‘Renault’ and a green one ‘Team Lotus’.

        3. I’m sure Proton would be delighted to hear that they are ‘controlled’ by Bahar!

    19. Confusion? There’s no confusion. Everyone knows these days the black and gold cars are Renaults and the green and yellow ones are Lotuses. Sure, it might have been different in the 70s and 80s but that was 30 years ago.

    20. Group Lotus had the opportunity to buy the Team Lotus name for 5 quid, but they wanted it for free. Tony then bought that name further complicating matters.
      As I believe, there are no saints in business, Group Lotus have been arrogant with a sense of entitlement, while 1Malaysia, have some other motive outside of F1.
      The 2 dwarfs decided to use F1 as their battle ground, unfortunately they don’t stir up any dust. It is business as usual. They both have no effect on the racing.

      1. Group Lotus had the opportunity to buy the Team Lotus name for 5 quid

        I find that very hard to believe. Have you got a link to support that claim?

        1. I don’t think he literally means five quid. Oliver is illustrating a point.

          1. jsw11984 (@jarred-walmsley)
            3rd June 2011, 11:05

            Exactly, I think it’s a metaphorical £5

    21. commentators and other drivers do call the Renault Lotuses from time to time. It annoys me as we don’t go about talking of Vodafones or Marlboros.. If Bahar wants his car to be named Lotus, he should build it and not just be title sponsor. That’s why I’ll always support Team Lotus, they did it the hard way in line with the old Lotus Maverick spirit starting from scratch; while Group Lotus thinks throwing a wad of cash at Renault makes them the ‘real’ Lotus.

    22. I put off reading this article purely because I’m just sick to death of the issue.

      Oh, and btw, that doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate you covering it Keith, I’m just fed up as most people are with this situation.

    23. Jimmy Chopin
      3rd June 2011, 10:44

      The only thing Lotus about Renault is the sticker on the rear wing. The whole mentality of Lotus is what Tony Fernandez’s team exemplify.

      Dany Bahar is a corporate slimeball as I said he couldnt even say which DECACE Lotus last partnered with Renault. You think he deserves to be called Lotus?

      The team used to be Renault, before that Benetton F1, before that Toleman. It isn’t Lotus.

      1. But the only thing Renault about Renault is the engine. The team’s more Lotus than it is Renault. They sold their share.

        1. That’s like saying McLaren is more Vodafone than Mercedes!

          I consider the engine to be quite a big part of being a team. A lot more than the paycheck for it. Or would you call Ferrari Marlboro?

          1. I wouldn’t call a McLaren a Vodafone, but I also wouldn’t call it a Mercedes.

            The Ferrari example isn’t quite the same, as the team is owned by the Ferrari/Fiat car companies. Lotus Renault GP use a customer Renault engine; the Renault car company has no stake in the team at all any more. Group Lotus do.

    24. I find the decision by Group Lotus to appeal on the grounds of confusion bizarre. If you read the full judgement, the judge is very clear that Team Lotus has all the history and is associated with F1. Whereas Group Lotus is only associated with sports cars, but he had no problem with Group Lotus entering F1 as well. If Group Lotus actually ‘win’ the appeal (which is probably unlikely) and only one team is allowed to use the word Lotus in F1, then from what the judge has already said, it’s almost certain to be Team Lotus!…. that seems a very brave appeal to me.

    25. Next time Bahar will go to court trying to change all people from saying “Wassup dawg” to “How do you do, sir” ;)

      I acutally find this case very interesting. Two different companies are now able to use the same logo but only one may use the logo with “Team Lotus” under it. I don´t think anything will change after the appeal but it will be interesting to see if the ruling will be changed.

    26. It’s true that most people call one team “Renault” and the other “Lotus”. So there isn’t much confusion.
      However, that’s exactly what Group Lotus doesn’t want. They want to be associated with the black and gold Lotus, not the green and yellow Lotus.

      I totally understand their continuous battle in court and I support it. I don’t know much about the legal issue, about naming rights and who owns what. So from a legal standpoint TF might well be right. But I think it SHOULD be that the company that is called Lotus can decide which F1 team is allowed to associate itself with that automaker.

      On the other hand, I don’t understand TF either, especially not since he now owns Caterham. Where’s the advantage for him in naming the F1 team after Lotus? It would make much more sense to call it Caterham and use it as advertisement for his company rather than somebody else’s.

    27. Bahar’s appeal. If it fails, does he stand to lose anything extra (sorry, can’t think of a better word) by the judge slapping him with some injunction or other? Is there any risk involved? For example, could they lose the right to use ‘Lotus’ at all in F1?

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