Lewis Hamilton, Jenson Button, Monaco, 2013

Hamilton praises Button amid McLaren doubts

F1 Fanatic Round-up

Posted on

| Written by

Lewis Hamilton, Jenson Button, Monaco, 2013In the round-up: Lewis Hamilton defends his former team mate Jenson Button amid doubt over Button’s future at McLaren.


Your daily digest of F1 news, views, features and more.

Lewis Hamilton defends Jenson Button amid rumours of McLaren axe (The Guardian)

“Jenson is better than most drivers here. He’s a great driver. So it doesn’t correlate. If I had a team I would want him in it. He’s a great asset for any team.”

Button could walk even if McLaren offer him deal

“There are so many other challenges out there you don’t open your eyes to until you think it might possibly be the end of your Formula One career. You’ve got tunnel vision when you’re in F1.”

Jenson Button to quit Formula One with Fernando Alonso to replace Brit at McLaren (Daily Mail)

“Button, 34, has waited for months in the hope that his rookie team-mate Kevin Magnussen would be the one to make way if Alonso signed but McLaren principal Eric Boullier believes that 22-year-old Magnussen will complement Alonso better than Button.”

FIA monitoring Caterham and Marussia (Autosport)

“Despite appearing on the list, it is understood that both teams will still have to prove that they are capable of competing satisfactorily for an entire season if they are to secure their places on the grid.”

Stop hurting F1’s reputation – Horner (BBC)

“The politics and the fiscal issues should be dealt with behind closed doors, with the commercial rights holder, and get sorted.”

Is Formula One running out of gas? (CNN)

“I was speaking to my engineers the day before and we were planning for Friday practice in Austin, what parts to test, and then the news came. I didn’t see it coming.”

2014 a season to forget – Raikkonen (ESPN)

“Every season that you don’t win the championship … I’ve only won one and you can more or less forget the rest. You are here to try to win races and the championship and when you don’t manage to do that championship you have failed every time. Finishing second or 20th makes not much difference.”

Gutierrez was expecting to leave Sauber (Reuters)

“After long talks with the team we didn’t reach an agreement.”

Sauber certain on 2015 line-up (Sky)

“Put to her that she appeared to have at least three racers on her books for 2015, Kaltenborn replied: ‘No, we have announced our two drivers. I’m not aware that next year more than two cars would be used.'”

Wer wechselt noch vor Abu Dhabi? (Auto Motor und Sport, German)

Nico Hulkenberg will revert to using an earlier engine after his fifth power unit was damaged in America.

Mark Webber’s dream team (Red Bull)

Fernando [Alonso] is the most complete single-seater driver in the world. He has amazing versatility and has proved himself over several sets of regulations. Considering how hard he races, he also produces the fewest mistakes by far.”



Comment of the day

Does double points make it impossible for Rosberg to be considered a deserving champion? PeterG doesn’t think so:

I don’t like double points but regardless whoever scores the most points will be a deserving champion in my book.

Hamilton has won more races, He has been the faster of the two through the season but F1 and motor racing in general is not 100% about those things, Its about who scores the most points over a season.

It’s also not as if Rosberg hasn’t been quick or consistent, He’s racked up the points, He’s been second, what, ten times or something and has driven a good season so regardless of how he was to win it, If he was to win the title he’d be a deserving champion.

It could also be worse, we could be dealing with that ridiculous system NASCAR has implemented this year. I don’t even see how you can class NASCAR as a real championship any more let alone there ‘champion’ been a real champion as he didn’t even need to have scored the most points over a season. In fact the full season doesn’t really matter over there as everything is reset for the final races.

From the forum

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to Alonsowdc, Paul and Claidheamh!

If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is via the contact form or adding to the list here.

On this day in F1

Criticism over F1’s controversial races in Russia and Bahrain has prompted Bernie Ecclestone to insist on more than one occasion that ‘F1 doesn’t do politics’.

However Ecclestone has tried to take credit for using Formula One for political reason when he believes it reflects positively on him, such as on this occasion in 2008, though his line of argument was decidedly suspect:

Author information

Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

Got a potential story, tip or enquiry? Find out more about RaceFans and contact us here.

Posted on Categories F1 Fanatic round-upTags

Promoted content from around the web | Become a RaceFans Supporter to hide this ad and others

  • 110 comments on “Hamilton praises Button amid McLaren doubts”

    1. For a moment I thought Hamilton had finally got rid of that awful hair, but apparently not!

      I really hope Jenson doesn’t leave, however it’s looking more and more inevitable…

      1. Chris (@tophercheese21)
        7th November 2014, 0:39

        If you look closer, you’ll see that photo is from last year.

      2. I am just thinking what it would be like having him in Force India

      3. Hmm, yeah, because an F1 drivers’ hair is so important…

      4. There’s lot of drivers with more awful hairstyles in F1.

    2. Getting rid of Button makes no sense at all, sometimes I really think that McLaren have no idea what they’re doing. Button has an almost unparalleled working knowledge of Honda culture, has shown nothing but loyalty to McLaren and is, as Hamilton noted, one of the best drivers on the grid. In addition, McLaren should probably bear in mind that there’s no guarantees that the partnership with Honda will deliver results from the get go; so surely it is paramount that you have two world class, reliable drivers to keep shoring up the points in the constructors championship?

      McLaren really need to have a word with themselves because I can’t imagine that Alonso would be keen to stick around if McLaren-Honda under-performs consistently and a Mercedes slot opens up in the next season or two. Button is both loyal and world-class. Why ditch him?

      1. Todd (@braketurnaccelerate)
        7th November 2014, 1:18

        Why ditch K-Mag? He’s decently quick in an average McLaren, and he’s has a future. No offense to Button, but he has 2-3 years tops, before he’d likely retire from F1. K-Mag is McLaren’s future, and it seems that’s what they’re banking on.

        1. I agree. K-Mag is the new Hamilton.
          And it is the smartest decision to choose him over Button. I actually think that K-Mag will be quicker than Alonso, no lie.

          1. Chris (@tophercheese21)
            7th November 2014, 2:34

            Big call.

          2. Woah! easy there cowboy

          3. 94 to 53

            K-Mag isn’t even close to Button. To be the new Lewis, he’d have to be able to take on Alonso. Yeah, good luck with that.

            Dropping Button is a ridiculous move.

            1. It could even be said that the gap is slightly flattering given that Button has retired twice this season to one retirement for Magnussen, and Button’s retirement from the points in Singapore (from 7th place) promoted Magnussen into the points.

          4. REALLY!!!!!!!! Seriously do you watch F1. Maggie’s done nothing to even come near

        2. You guys really think that Magnussen is all that? I’m not so sure. When Lewis debuted he was already matching, if not beating, his two-time world champion teammate. By comparison, Magnussen has about half the points Jenson has amassed this year. Yes, he may get better, but who knows? Some drivers simply don’t develop any further when they hit F1. Why gamble on Kevin when you know you have a world class driver in the form of Button?

          1. Lewis in 2007 proved he could go toe-to-toe with a reigning world champion. Magnussen hasn’t. I don’t suppose Mclaren have the clout to “farm” him over to one of the lower teams, but Button-Alonso is the stronger combination.

            What’s Alonso got to do with the unresolved contracts though?

            1. The Blade Runner (@)
              7th November 2014, 8:42

              BUT/ALO is also the best marketing proposition for McLaren Honda.

          2. I can think of about 12.5 million reasons why

            1. Nice one :)

          3. While what Lewis did in 2007 was quite outstanding, it was easier back then for a newcomer coming into the sport due to the amount of testing mileage they could do. Lewis had also been part of the Mclaren set up for a long time prior to his debut. Added to the fact Alonso had to adapt to the Bridgestone tyres from the Michelins which put him slightly on the back foot, as well not knowing the team I think Lewis had a lot of things going in his favour that allowed to perform so well in comparison to Fernando. Compare that with the situation KMag had at the start of this year and it is clear he was less well prepared.

            I think Magnussen has a lot of potential, he has been quick but he has made some mistakes in the races. Given Button is one of the most reliable racing drivers in the world (bar that inexplicable run of form in 2012) I don’t think it is that surprising he has been more consistently scoring points. If we assume Alonso is an improvement over Button when he joins as the lead driver, I would give Magnussen the second seat. For me he has done enough this year to suggest he can be a top driver. Sadly that may mean Jenson is out of the sport before he should be. Wonder where this might Vandoorne though, surely Mclaren will want him on the grid somewhere sooner rather than later.

            1. I’d say that the biggest issue rookies deal with today is tyre management. It is quite clear to me that the rookies don’t have problems with driving fast. They are intentionally driving slow to preserve tyres. And it apparently takes time to learn to gage the exact speed and handling where you preserve the tyres just enough.

      2. I agree. Button is the only driver who have ever beat Hamilton over the course of the F1 season and had more points over their whole stint together. Some say that these are just stats but it cannot be taken from him that he is one of the best drivers out there.
        I don’t get the argument that Magnussen will improve and has a future… Alonso-Button lineup would be very strong if not the strongest of them all next year.

        1. @toxic– Button has a certain potential. He will not get more out of a car than what it can. Something that Hamilton and Alonso can do. I’m not surprised that Mclaren has not won since Hamilton left. Just not a strange coincidence.

          Magnussen has been in F1 for almost 1 years and has been a match Button more than often and will only get better. Button is already into mid 30s, he won’t improve much.

          Magnussen in qualifying is much better and not yet consistent in races, something which he can learn. But if he was slow in qualifying it’s different story. It would have proven he lacks raw pace, something that you can’t learn.

          Plus when Alonso is already there why do you need another experienced driver.

          1. That is a good point. Its why Mclaren got rid of Perez and took on Magnussen instead, Perez just wasn’t quick enough in qualifying compared to Button.

          2. So let me get this right.

            According to you…

            Magnussen being beaten by Button 12-3 in races and scoring barely half as many points as Button = Magnussen being a match for Button more than often

            But Button being beaten by Magnussen in qualifying by 1 = Magnussen being much better than Button.


        2. Magnussen has had a very strong F1 rookie season, in modern times only surpassed by Hamilton, who was sensational, and Villeneuve, who was hardly a rookie. A podium in his debut, beating his team mate in qualifying on tracks he has never seen before, and racing wheel to wheel with WDC’s like Alonso, Raikkonen and Vettel is not something the average rookie experiences.

          As any other rookie he has made (small) mistakes and has been penalized harshly by the stewards for racing incidents which other drivers do all the time. And as any other teammate since 2009 he has found that Button is exceptionally good at maximizing race opportunities. Does that make Magnussen less of a driver? I don’t think so.

          Of course he will improve. (Almost) everybody does so after their rookie season. Button included. Actually Button took three seasons to beat his teammates when he started his carreer and 9 years before he became WDC in a much superior car.

          Magnussen will beat Button next year and/or give Alonso a run for his money. Alonso is not that much better than Button. And neither of them are improving, but Magnussen will.

          1. These are the facts. Magnussen’s rookie season is better than rookie seasons of Alonso, Ricciardo, Rosberg, Schumacher and Bottas. In what season did Button get his podium? Magnussen got his in first season.

      3. @kibblesworth Unfortunately it makes too much sense…
        1) Jenson is 35, he is not the longevity option that McLaren want.
        2) His association with Honda ended on poor terms.
        3) Alonso is just as technically competent, faster and younger.
        4) Magnussen has already been beating JB in qualifying; is age becoming corrosive to raw pace?
        5) Alonso is a more versatile driver than Button; in the post 2013 era this is paramount as new balances emerge through different engine maps.
        6) Pirelli have committed themselves to harder compounds that perfectly suit Alonso’s acrobatic style but do tend to leave Button struggling.

        1. Alonso is only a year younger! stop making an argument about choosing Alonso over Button because of age. If McLaren thinking about longevity (more than 2 years), they should just pick Hulkenberg (or any other drivers under 30) instead of Alonso.
          And his association with Honda wasn’t ended on poor terms, at least not that I know off. There is a Japanese that posting on autosport forum that flat out denied this (ended on poor terms) based on the news around that time.

          Now, if I can only choose one between Alonso and Button, of course I’ll choose Alonso. But both seat at McLaren is still up for grabs, so why not settle for Alonso and Button?

          1. Button may be one of the oldest drivers on the grid, but physically he’s probably the fittest of them all. Physically, he could easily carry on to the age of 40 but how much his reflexes, anticipation, vision, mental capabilities etc will have degraded by then is another question.

        2. From a McLaren point of view, signing JB (in stead of K-Mag) for 2 more years seems the most sensible thing to do, though:
          1) He is a great ambassador for the team (including Honda), specially in difficult times,
          2) He outmachted two eager rookies in two seasons,
          3) He has the experience needed to help the transition from Mercedes to Honda,
          4) His performance is consistent and predictable, usually surpassing expectations.

        3. 4) Magnussen has already been beating JB in qualifying

          Beating JB in qualifying is nothing special. Jenson has always been a poor qualifier due to his easy-on-tyres style of driving which fails to generate sufficient temperature in the tyres quickly.
          One of the reasons why Perez was dropped so quickly by Mclaren was his failure to beat Jenson in qualifying consistently.

          Even K-Mag hasn’t got the better of him in qualifying, but Jenson is now a year older and probably still demanding a high salary which is why K-Mag has been retained.

      4. I think would be a shame to see Jenson go but long term Magnussen is Mclaren’s future and they obviously want Alonso back.

        Still not 100% convinced by Magnussen obviously a good driver but still yet to see a real top drive in a race from him, but he is quick.

        Finally, quick point about Button and “loyalty”. He wasn’t too loyal back in 03-05 swtitching back and forth between wanting to go back to Williams and then wanted to stay at BAR because they had a good car. He is loyal to McLaren because it is the only top team with an opening. I do like Jenson though, still got a lot to offer, his drive in Japan showed that but i do think this will be the end of him in F1.

      5. So people here think they should have Magnussen over Button because, maybe, Magnussen will improve in the future and be on the same level as Button?

        Why ‘trust’ a driver to get eventually on the same level as his team-mate while you just can keep his team-mate? McLaren should just keep Button, the safe solution, and hire ‘the next big thing’ when Button retires.

    3. I hate that all Rosberg has been consistent he has 10 second places stuff, Crofty kept saying it last weekend. Hamilton has 10 wins! They both have been as consistent as each other with the key difference that Hamilton has been winning. Second might as well be last in the W05 as it will be in the championship standings.

      Also the Daily Mail does like to jump the gun… he’s not been kicked out yet! hope Button joins the WEC if he has to go. Great move for both in my opinion.

      1. @addimaf1 you make a valid point. I would like to add that “being consistent in getting second places” is not exactly a great feat in the W05 – when running normally (which it did, most of the time, for Rosberg) it has been dominant over every other car at every single track. 1-2’s have been the logical result at every track.

        Slash the W05’s huge advantage into a tiny one and my guess is that Rosberg would have lost more points to others creeping in between him and Rosberg, which isn’t possible with the W05 because it is simply that good.

        1. @addimaf1 @mattds – I would confidently say that you could pick any driver from the current F1 grid and they could easilly finish 2nd in the Championship in a Merc this year.

          1. Even Pastor???

      2. Alex McFarlane
        7th November 2014, 18:40

        Indeed. When you think he has not beaten Lewis on a level playing field all season, I just cannot think that he has been the best driver this year.

      3. He wasn’t kicked out was he….. ahhh I will never take the Daily Mail seriously haha

    4. I’ve read several comments like COTD about Rosberg still deserving the title due to his consistent 2nd place finishes. But he’s mainly finished second to Hamilton, so I don’t understand the consistency argument at all. All that shows is he’s consistent at coming second to his team mate. COTD makes it sound like 10 2nd place finishes is good, well it’s not really when your team mate has the same number of wins. In my book Hamilton has been the more consistent as he’s yet to finish a race off the podium. Rosberg has put up a great fight, but the stat of 10-4 in terms of wins is bad enough. When you add in the extra DNF and qualifying failures for Hamilton it highlights this even more.

      1. +100

        exactly, Rosberg has run Hamilton closer than I thought, especially i Qualifying but Hamilton has been the stronger driver all year.

        When Rosberg has been up against it and really had to go out and earn a win (Hungary) he hasn’t been able to do it, He got stuck behind Hamilton.

        That is the difference between the 2, Hamilton makes it happen (occasionally this leads to errors, granted) but Rosberg is yet to beat Lewis in a wheel to wheel fight and the only weekend you could say he has bettered him this year to win a race was Monaco, and we all know what happened there..

      2. COTD makes no sense.

    5. Being second in a Mercedes is nothing to be proud of unless you either started way back, dropped to the rear at the start or had a mechanical issue. It’s the absolute minimum acceptable finishing position in that car, so praising Rosberg for having a lot of 2nd places doesn’t make any sense to me.

      Two of his seconds deserve recognition and praise – Canada and Sochi. The rest fall into the minimum expected category.

    6. @keithcollantine Hello Keith, I noticed something about double points that may interest you: double points were introduced to make the suspense last longer, but the championship battle between Rosberg and Hamilton is actually less shorter because of them. The championship WILL be decided in Abu Dhabi, no matter what happen in Brazil, even if ROS or HAM have a DNF, nothing is done until Abu Dhabi. But without double points, the situation would be more exciting because the two Grand Prix could be title deciders. Hamilton could win the title in Brazil, or Rosberg in Abu Dhabi, or Hamilton in Abu Dhabi. Coming into this week-end, there would be a lot of suspense and pressure on Rosberg as a finish below Hamilton would give Lewis the title. And if he managed to finish above, in a race where every lap is crucial as a Rosberg crash would give Hamilton the title, there would still be suspense in Abu Dhabi, where a Lewis crash or DNF would probably give Rosberg the title and the opposite would also be true. So the 620 kms of the season would be crucial, but now we’re in a situation where the Brazilian spectators know they won’t see the championship decided.

      PS: I’m not sure what I’m saying is very clear, hope Keith or someone can word it better because I think it’s an interesting fact

      1. I understand! You are right.

      2. @Formula1fan but the point is that they wanted the title decision to be dragged out until the very end. It’s not about the possible number of title deciding races – they did not want it to be decided before Abu Dhabi. And they will have accomplished their goal if Hamilton finishes in front of Rosberg this very weekend, because in that case Hamilton would have celebrated in Brazil with the old points system.

      3. Fair point. In summary, due to double points, the Brazilian GP will be less exciting. People may even don’t watch the GP, because the title will be decided at Abu Double anyway.

    7. To be honest, I wanna see Nico win in Brazil and Lewis to score no points. That way Nico leads Lewis by 1 point going into Abu Dhabi and double points will make no difference in regards to the title.

      1. If Lewis wins in Brazil and Abu Dhabi, the double points still doesn’t make a difference in regards to the title.

        I have absolutely no idea with what logic you say Lewis should retire in Brazil to make the title race even. The guy had 3 more mechanical failure than Nico and he is leading by 24 points. Open your eyes. This title is totally deserved by Lewis. Period.

        1. Try reading the COTD. They are both great drivers. It doesn’t matter who has the most wins next to their name or who had the least amount of retirements, whoever has the most points is champion. Both are deserving of it. Period.

          1. The ONLY reason why Nico is still in the championship hunt is because of Lewis’ problems and the double points. I rest my case.

          2. I read the COTD. I don’t agree with it.

          3. So you’re wishing bad look on the more successful driver, so that if the less successful driver wins the championship double points haven’t counted ? Well that’s flawed logic, because you wouldn’t have to wish Hamilton has a DNF in Brazil if double points weren’t around… You’re basically saying you want something unfair to happen in one race, so that an unfair rule doesn’t count towards the championship. Think about it.

          4. Wierd logic there @stigsemperfi
            “doesn’t matter who has the most wins next to their name or who had the least amount of retirements”
            Why would these IMPORTANT aspects not matter?

          5. @stigsemperfi

            Adding “Period.” to your opinion doesn’t make it fact. To each his own, but in my view, coming second 10 times to the guy who wins 10 times is not something which makes you equally deserving at all.

            1. @andrewf1, true, but my original point was that if the events I explained above happened, it would be an even fight for the title and Bernie’s double points gimmick would be meaningless. And Lewis would probably still win.

      2. If anyone has not heard BBC Brazil pre race podcast than please do listen to it. They have a 10 min interview with Hamilton and Rosberg, about their title race and shows mentality of both drivers. Robserg describes winning title would be ‘cool’ which is strange thing to say I feel. I think he does not yet understand what is actually means

        1. @nin13
          Any one please show Nico his fellow country men’s reactions after winning titles
          Winning a WDC will be cool, Heck i was jumping of Joy in a game mode of F1 games let alone the drivers

          1. Kimi didn’t think much of his title in 2007 as it was pre-agreed to not exclude the McLaren drivers in that year but only the team.
            This is the very reason why Hamilton had the stupid off in China and this is the VERY SAME reason why Hamilton stole 2008 from Massa.
            Wake up and learn.

    8. This comment is with regards to comment of the day.

      I can understand why people feel that Rosberg deserves the championship if he wins it. Let’s say you are a boss. You assign a new product to two of your salesmen, wanting them to generate as much revenue as they can from selling it. When it comes to the day where you compare the results of each salesmen, all you are looking at is who earned the most money for you, regardless of how he did it. Even if the losing salesman got one million dollars in a single day, what matters is that the winning salesman got one million and one dollar overall.

      Now, apply that to the championship battle between Rosberg and Hamilton. At the end of the day, the champion is the one who gets the most points, no matter how well the other driver did on certain days. In this case, if Rosberg becomes champion by getting the most points, it doesn’t matter how many times Hamilton out-raced Rosberg. Remember, all that matters is who has the greater end result.

      But, here’s the deal. Formula 1 is a RACING series. According to Google, the word racing is defined as ‘compete with another or others to see who is fastest at covering a set course or achieving an objective’. It is, once again, to see who is FASTEST. This is why people (myself included) feel that Rosberg does not deserve the championship if he wins it. Throughout the year, Hamilton has certainly been faster than Rosberg to cover a set course. If Rosberg is going to win the championship with less wins, then it is not racing. It is simply trying to keep your car alive, ready to sacrifice the top step of the podium just because you think that second place has a good haul of points too.

      To end this off, I’m going to ask a question. If you are a racing driver, do you race to win or do you race to good score points?

      1. I would race to win the WDC, and if that means driving slow at times so be it. But most people would drive as fast as possible, and the drivers who do that do get the most respect, that’s for sure. If Webber had driven in 2010 like Rosberg is driving in 2014, he would probably be a WDC. He admitted he crashed in Korea trying to keep up with Vettel’s pace (in his book)…. Personally I wish Webber had driven abit less “racey”, but that’s ancient history now. Rosberg is doing the right thing for his WDC chances.

      2. Quote: “If you are a racing driver, do you race to win or do you race to good score points?”

        The right question is “Do you race to win the current race or to win the WDC?” Very different answer to that question.

      3. maarten.f1 (@)
        7th November 2014, 7:10

        @hanney The Formula One world championship is won by the driver who has the most points, it’s always been like that. That doesn’t necessarily equate to the same driver who won the most races. For example, in 1964 John Surtees won the championship with two wins, while Jim Clark ended up third(!) with three wins. So is Surtees not a worthy champion then? In fact, Hamilton won his championship in 2008 with 5 wins, while Massa came second with 6 wins.

        What you want is Bernie’s medal system. Whomever has the most gold medals (wins) wins the championship. Except the championship never worked like that. So as a racing driver in Formula 1 you race to win, except when push comes to shove, you drive for the points. Just like Hamilton himself did when he managed, only just, to get a 5th place in the final lap of the final race.

        1. We can go on and on about how Massa won a race via the boardroom and not by coming first. That is the problem, who keeps such statistics in their head when reviewing results. This year alone we have had a change in how penalties are awarded to drivers, so some drivers could have suffered early in the season then others don’t even get punished for the same offense. In 2008, Mclaren drivers consistently received strange penalties from the stewards.

          1. Interesting though: under the 1991–2002 points system, Massa would have won the 2008 championship. I’ve checked all championships since 2003 and 2008 is the only year where the points system would have led to a different champion. We can only hope the same doesn’t happen this year. I’d be gutted if Rosberg would win the championship because the current system gives more points for finishing second than the old one.

        2. Agree that it’s always been about more than just winning races but there’s never been anything in the rules so flagrantly artificial as Double Points in the last round.

          It’s so pointless; either Hamilton wins the title which he should have won anyway or Rosberg steals it and the title is asterisked everafter.

        3. I agree, however in this case we are not talking about a season margin of 1 to 2 race wins more than Rosberg, it’s 10 – 4 and the reason why if Rosberg becomes WDC due to Double points it would be travesty.

          Bar one more DNF than Rosberg and a few mistakes that Hamilton recovered from. Rosberg has still not beaten Hamilton in a straight head to head race.

        4. @maarten-f1: “For example, in 1964 John Surtees won the championship with two wins, while Jim Clark ended up third(!) with three wins”

          Yeah but then again, Clark retired far more. He won every race he finished but he retired like 7 times. That is what F1 has always been about as well. Driver consistency, driver speed, car reliability and car speed.

          The point about Hamilton and Rosberg is that Hamilton, in the very same car, with more reliability problems, has been doing far better than Rosberg and it’s only because of the double points that there’s a remote chance of Rosberg still winning the WDC (I don’t believe in 2 DNF’s for Hamilton).

        5. We could have the best of both worlds: a point system that gives A LOT more points to the winner than to the person who finishes second. I don’t consider it fair that Lewis had to win 4 races back-to-back after his retirement in Australia to catch Rosberg.

          In the current point system: finishing second gives you 72% of the points of the winner.
          From 1962 to 1990 the point system was: 9-6-4-3-2-1. Finishing second gave you only 66,67% of the points of the winner. It is IMHO a much better system.
          After that, during the period 1991–2002, it was even more extreme: 10 points for a win, 6 for second, and then 4-3-2-1 for 3rd to 6th. Finishing second was only worth 60% of a win.
          After that, thing got bad: the 2003–2009 point system was awful and what we have got from 2010 on is not much better.

          OK, if we take the 1991-2002 point system: Lewis Hamilton would have 120 points and Nico Rosberg 103. With only 20 points to grab at the two last rounds (no double points back in the time, remember?), Rosberg would have a much harder time winning this championship.

          Source: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/12/22/think-the-new-f1-points-system-is-weird-weve-seen-much-stranger-than-that/

      4. F1 (and racing in general) has always been about more than just being the fastest. Reliability and consistency have always been a part of the sport. This means that sooner or later every driver has to calculate and consider how much risk he is prepared to take. Of course, some drivers are more hot-blooded than others but if scoring good points did not matter, then we would either have the infamous “medals system” or even only qualifying laps and no races at all.

        I hope that the double points rule disappears after this season and never comes back but I agree with PeterG that Rosberg has been quick and consistent this year so he would be a deserving champion, too.

        I would also add that if we are saying that such a title does not count, then we should say the same thing about a lot of past seasons where the title was won under even more controversial circumstances, such as the 2003 season when the FIA forced Michelin to change the tyre construction in the middle of the year. While the double points rule is stupid and generally helps the teams that can afford to spend more money on in-season development, it is at least straightforward and not made for a specific team.

      5. @hanney – I agree that COTD is completely erroneous, and a poor attempt to construe Nico’s 2014 efforts as being championship worthy versus those of Hamilton, but I don’t object to it on basis that Hamilton is just faster and therefore should be champion. It is still mathematically possible for Nico to win the title without there having been any help from double points, i.e. if Abu Dhabi was just worth 25 points, and in that scenario I would have no objection, because Rosberg would have succeeded via the same system the last sixty-three championships were decided. Put simply Hamilton being “faster” is irrelevant, the fine line between hero and zero that F1 has revolved around for six decades could theoretically turn against Lewis. Was Keke Rosberg the best on the grid in 1982? No, a mixture of luck and misfortune for him and his rival determined that the scored the more points, and that is simply the nature of F1.

        However an issue arises when you change the system. If Rosberg takes the title via a set of circumstances that in every other season in F1 history would have given the title to Lewis, then do we need to place an asterisk beside history? Such would be the artificial caveat that could allow Nico the title, I would imagine F1 would simply implode in outrage and disgust. And that is merely the headline possibilities. It is virtually certain that a crucial change in either the WDC or the WCC will come about through double points where in other years it won’t have; just imagine what the FIA’s Review of Season book is going to look like…

        2014 FIA Formula 1 World Championship Standings

        1st – Nico Rosberg* – Ah, but he would have been second without double points
        2nd – Lewis Hamilton
        3rd – Daniel Ricciardo
        4th – Fernando Alonso* – Again, would not have been fourth without double points

        …you agreed to this Jean…

    9. Isn’t Lewis being nice to Button? Very kind of him indeed to endorse Button like that after the crap Button and Whitmarsh dished out to him in their time together at McLaren.

      1. Yeah. he is being nice and diplomatic. I am way its good that those two pushed Lewis out of McLaren because he is about to win another championship.

        1. People seem to forget how snakey Button was. Friending up the engineers but not inviting Hamilton, and all the public statements questioning Hamilton’s “head space”. Button’s smooth politics won him the team, to the point where they were trying to lower Hamilton’s salary in negotiations.

          The truth is, Button is not a winner, and neither was Whitmarsh. Ron Dennis understands this, which is why they are both out. K-mag has better race craft than Button, and Alonso can drive around faults and probably give better feedback to McLaren. K-Mag will learn more off of Alonso than he can off Button, thus you will end up with two drivers superior to Button, and a better car.

          Button’s only chance of another WDC would be in a car as dominant as a Merc, and a number 1 status in a team. I don’t think he’ll be in that situation again.

      2. Errr… What? Button, even before he joined the team, had nothing but praise for Hamilton.

        Even when Hamilton was publicly abusing the team, his engineers, and blaming his mistakes or failures on others, Whitmarsh still didn’t criticise him. He barely got a slap on the wrist for tweeting telemetry.

        Badly treated at mclaren? Even after he left, they still fawn over him!

        1. They still fawn over him because he is one of the best drivers in the field and has something a bit extra to say a button.

          Same as Alonso and Vettel. That’s why after all the bad blood between Alonso and Mclaren they are willing to work together again, because those great drivers make a difference.

      3. Exactly what crap did Button, or for that matter Whitmarsh, dish out to Hamilton?

        Oh, I remember, you must mean when Button tweeted Hamilton’s telemetry to the whole world.

        Oh wait…

        1. The incompetency at Macca 2012 is unforgivable. And it happened because Whitmarsh was busy looking out for him buddy, Button and they dropped the ball on Lewis.

          1. They must have been looking out really hard for button when they sent his car out with a loose wheel, then.


    10. I absolutely agree with Hamilton: McLaren need a better car, not better drivers. Alonso might be slightly better than Button, but their race-craft competences are very similar. None of them will be champions without a much better car. And the current McLaren already has the best power unit, so an unproven Honda is not likely to make any positive difference.

      Neither Alonso nor Button has much proven success in contributing to the developent of the car. As a matter of fact both Ferrari and McLaren has gone backwards during the Alonso/Button tenures. Alonso is not the solution to McLarens problems.

      1. @kroonracing – I think the Honda power unit will make a massive difference. Not so much how good the engine is (we have no way of telling yet) but for the fact that they will have designed their car specifically for that power unit.

        They go from a team who will get very little information from their engine manufacturer because they are leaving them to in effect, a works team.

      2. “Alonso might be slightly better than Button, but their race-craft competences are very similar.”

        Which is exactly why Button must go. I am sure Ron does not have an appetite for a replay of 2007.

    11. Jenson button is the next best driver after Hamilton and Alonso may be ricardo now.But it is strange that his future is uncertain.just look at the performance of Raikkonen,Massa,Vettel etc.they are all experienceed drivers I don’t know where button did wrong he already scored more than double than magnussen.Magnussen is young that is a fact a decent driver too.but he is not a next hamilton or such a promising stuff he may or may not improove.i think he is salary is marginally lower than Jenson Button that would have been the point mclaren taken into account.Ferrari spending so much for vettel and Raikkonen whether they are eligible or not?but Button deserve to be in f1.
      Now we can come in to Championship Hamilton won 10 races so far it would’ve been 14 or 15 easily without his reliability issues apart from spa,or monaco controversy then what title Rosberg is talking about?

    12. Maybe Alonso has said he’d prefer to deal with Kmag rather than Jenson?

      1. Sure. Just like Alonso had preferred to deal with Massa rather than Raikkonen. At this point Alonso might as well join a team with Vettel to try to dominate him too.

      2. It’s maybe more a matter of maintaining their young driver programme, and choosing another experienced driver to lead the way.

    13. I don’t know what Horner has been drinking but it certainly is some bull.
      He expects the teams to die slowly without complaining, yet he has taken every opportunity to complain about Renault engines and an unfreeze also. I bet if it was his team being paid a ridiculous amount, he’d be happy sending emails endlessly to FOM. Why doesn’t he help reach a compromise by tearing up his contract with FOM

      1. Horner is a true loud mouth idiot. No wonder Bernie is so keen on him to succeed him. Zero moral and a strong penchant for talking senseless crap.

      2. Because Horner is on a par with Ferrari for self-interested, “I don’t care about anyone else” arguments. When has the man ever shown the slightest interest in the sport in general? Never. He is there simply to spend Dietrich Mateschitz’s money so at Red Bull HQ they can hang another championship up. He would happily race just another 2 or 3 cars provided he could call himself the world championship team at the end. He gives of an air of disdain for back markers as if they don’t matter and yet, irony or ironies, seem to fail to realise that but for the whims of an Austrian billionaire his team wouldn’t exist. Once Matesschitz’s pops off lets see how long they hang around for.

    14. Why was my comment deleted? Is Jenson’s exit from McLaren suddenly something other than inevitable?

    15. Concerning JenniferBecks´ tweet: Apparently Sauber has four drivers with contract, Van der Garde has one, too, and is considering legal action. He was to pay 12 million €, and considering he´s also probably faster than those two announced this not being enough is quite… impressive.

      1. If its true that Sauber have somehow managed to contract 4 drivers then you would have to ask if Monisha Kaltenborn actually knows what she is doing.

        1. @crammond Perhaps Sauber are planning for 3 drivers? 12m would be a lot to payoff..

    16. Jenson’s definitely gone. Listen to Five Live’s Brazil preview. He’s got other things lined up ‘for sure’.

    17. The COTD is misguided. Something wrong doesn’t become right because there is something worse. Buy that logic everyone in the UK is rich because there are people somewhere on earth that a poorer. One is not related to the other so you cannot make a point using that logic. F1 messed up with the double points. That is a fact. If a driver wins because of it, is he deserving? As without it he would not be champion. Why not make the last race worth 500 points? Then some random driver might get lucky. Would that man be champion? I guess so because of a stupid rule but in fact anyone capable of free thought would know it was a sham. I really feel sorry of F1 and it’s supporters. You guys will swallow and justify anything thrown at you. Shame on you.

      1. I said at the start of the year that I would simply calculate the standings at the end without double points and that is what I would consider everyone’s finishing position. Really not bothered what the record books, Bernie or the FIA say about it..

        They hide the Championship away from the fans anyway by not doing it on the podium but instead, at a posh dinner no-one can go to so I couldn’t care less who wins it “officially.”

    18. Regarding the COTD, and my thoughts.

      I agree while I do not like Double points, it is there and whom ever has most points is champion when the Chequered flag gets waved in Abu Dhabi. Regardless of perceived whom ever deserves it more.

      In regard to Rosberg’s consistency, the Mercedes is the constant in this view point really, as it has been not just marginally the best car, but in fact often streets ahead of the rest, so as long as no complications with the car, it would be reasonable to say,in my view, that a Mercedes car should finish on the Podium. Only one race thus far this season have they not had Pole position such has been its dominance.

      The thing that stands out most to me though, is the punishment a DNF has through no fault of the driver upon the WDC, especially into a double point weekend. If Lewis makes a mistake to take himself out, then he is accountable for that, fair enough, same goes for Nico. However to see the WDC crowned because of no fault and double punishment does not sit well in my thoughts. It reasonable I believe to say there is a high chance Mercedes without issue will finish on the Podium in each of last 2 races, such is their margin.

      I recognize nothing can be done about it now, but I would like to see in the future a system where a driver in WDC drops 3 of their worst results, unless deemed by stewards to be their fault (like causing an accident that takes them out), that would still not have made a difference to a dominant driver through the year or a consistently second placed driver, but would still lengthen many drivers involvement in potentially fighting mathematically for the WDC. Whilst also the WCC all results count, so the punishment of Retirements due to reliability effects those most responsible.

      1. Excellent comment, but how can we separate mechanical retirements due to team errors versus those cause by over-driving your car?

        1. Well I reason with the limitations on power plant components it’s in a drivers interest as penalties exist for using more than agreed allocation. It’s not perfect in anyway my suggestion because a driver can be effected by above through no fault of their own as well, but it would give fans and drivers more to think about to the end of the season. As like many fans watching I too, go through computations of, if this, then that, whilst also enjoying the racing, marvelling at the engineering and admiring the team work it takes.

    19. Lewis is right, Button has proven he’s more deserving of the seat than Mag.

      But he should perhaps just leave, as the treatment he’s received thus far from Macca is an INSULT.

      1. That is not what Hamilton said. His comment was not related to choosing between Button and Magnussen.
        What Hamilton said was that McLaren does not need a (new) better driver replacing Button (or Magnussen). McLaren needs a better car.

    20. not abig diference finishing 2nd or 20th??
      Seriosly Kimi, leave f1 now!

    21. McLaren are making the right decision regarding Jenson Button. For all his experience, his main strength is also his weakness.
      Because he requires a car to be almost perfect to get the bet out of it – due to his “smooth and “gentle” style, his feedback to engineers is ALWAYS going to be compromised. This is because engineers CANNOT develop the perfect car.
      Jenson will report a drivable car as un-drivable; and in trying to give him that drivability, engineers are led up the wrong development route.
      This is what happened in 2012 under Martin Whitmarsh’s stewardship, who went down Jenson’s development route only to find out it went nowhere. It is also what happened last year and is happening this year.
      This is why McLaren, the team famed for in-season development has been unable to make any strides in their in-season car development since Lewis Hamilton left the team; and with a rookie driver, the team simply had to rely more on Jenson’s feedback.
      Brawn also suffered a lack of in-season development when Jenson was there; and almost had the title snatched from them by RBR.
      This in my opinion is why Ron is letting Jenson go; and rightly so. His car development direction will simply never be good enout to fight the top guys, as his optimum operating window is simply too narrow.

      1. Alonso at Ferrari doesn’t seem to be that great at developing cars either though does he? To be honest I think in this day and age the role of the driver’s feedback in developing a car in a particular manner is overstated.

      2. What an utter load of nonsense.

        The 2012 McLaren was the fastest on the grid.

    22. Jensons had a charmed career and whether its luck or his nice guy persona, its probably more them than outright ability. Theres not many better on a drying track but his inability to hustle a poor car marks him down to a level 2 driver. Theres too much emphasis by the public on personality. Its ability the teams want.

    23. Concerning Horner’s comment, it makes me want to call him nasty swear words. From what I can tell, and to be fair I don’t live in the pit lane so this is just my best guess, the midfield teams didn’t have any lines of communication to deal with the relevant parties for the issues they were facing. So what were they supposed to do? Go bust and destroy 200+ people’s livelihoods? No, they had a responsibility to their employees, their sponsors, their reputation and indeed the sport as a whole to go public and make something happen. And you know what, it worked! Bernie looked like a fool in Austin saying whatever it took to make him look innocent even though the buck(s) stop with him. And now there is something in motion at least to prevent us from only having 4-5 teams on the grid next year. So yes, I would prefer F1 to be about racing but when the ringmaster can’t keep his house in order and indeed the CVC CEO had to tell him to sort it out, it seems it was exactly the right thing to do. And wouldn’t Horner use any political means available to get what he wants? Yes, yes he would. So less of the hypocrisy Horner, in their shoes you would do the same.

    24. A big LOL from me for this comedy headline

      Christian Horner: Teams ‘must stop hurting F1’s reputation’

      How may times have we heard from his own team (and his own mouth) that the engines are slow, do not have the right noise, are a bad choice. And how many times have we heard them say this is not real F1 any more when Newey can’t imagine even crazier things to get the car to stick to the ceiling? Exactly.

    25. Ah, double points. The F1 equivalent of ‘next goal wins’, the rule that defines the difference between a schoolyard kickabout and a serious competition.

    Comments are closed.