Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, Sochi Autodrom, 2015

Raikkonen and Bottas disagree over collision

2015 Russian Grand Prix

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Kimi Raikkonen and Valtteri Bottas gave different views of their last-lap collision in the Russian Grand Prix.

The stewards are investigating the tangle between the pair who were fighting over the final podium place. Bottas was unable to finish after the collision and Raikkonen fell to fifth place at the chequered flag.

“It was racing,” said the Ferrari driver to reporters after the race. “I tried to pass, and unfortunately we end up in this.”

“I tried to overtake,” Raikkonen explained, “I overtook him once before in the race there, and I was catching him through turn three.”

“And then obviously I wasn’t too far [behind] and I thought I’ll try again. Once I decided to try I cannot back off any more. I go there and I’m there but obviously I don’t know if he didn’t see me a all or expect me to go there. I tried to turn as much inside as I could but there was nowhere to go and we collided.”

Bottas disagreed with Raikkonen’s explanation. “I don’t think it was really a racing incident, no,” he said.

“I didn’t see anyone there and I was in front and then someone hits me. Very disappointed, obviously, running third in the last lap and ending up with zero points. Just disappointed.”

Bottas added the outcome of the investigation “doesn’t really matter for me because I’m never getting those points back”.

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    Keith Collantine
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    45 comments on “Raikkonen and Bottas disagree over collision”

    1. Kimi’s fault.Period

      1. He should do that move in his rookie years and maybe double WDC already, just like Schumi in 1994..but no penalty back then?

        1. Or Senna at Suzuka 1990.

    2. Well someone should be punished because it ruined my F1F prediction ;-)

      1. your not the only one haha

    3. Eh, Kimi – you probably wouldn’t have made the corner without using Bottas as brakes. (Like in an arcade computer game, really. Not world champion-level at all.)

      I’m sure if Bottas would have seen him, the pace at which he was approaching, he would have made space, just to avoid collision – and undercut him on the exit.

      It’s hard to side with Kimi on this one.

    4. First race where Kimi seemed alive and then he does this. It was a very optimistic move but I’m not going as far as calling it a total brainfart.

      1. This confirmed my predictions all along.
        He is a fast driver – but not a ‘thinking’ driver – this was a complete amateur incident from him.
        But worse than that, he is not even admitting to it and thinking that Joe Public believe everything he says anyway – with makes him also dumb!!!!!!!
        But then he drivers for F1 – (Ferrari 1) and so the penalty is pathetic – he should be punished hard for this as he has caused another driver from not being on the podium.
        I trust his integrity and will refrain from mentioning that he did this ‘deliberately’ – but it did look that way.

    5. The only way this would have been a racing incident would have been if Kimi outpaced Bottas by seconds, because of tyres or something. Coming from that far behind on a car that you’ve been fighting with for so long and hard is a do or die move you’d expect to see in a videogame or touring car racing. Maybe in the days of the Schumacher/Ferrari domination there were drivers that would have yielded for a move like that, but this battle did not warrant a yield from Bottas.

      I’m a Kimi fan but this is a stupid move. He finally has a race with good racepace compared to Vettel and somehow he manages to mess up a move that would have never worked in this scenario.

      1. You do realize that kimi was i think second faster than VB? who set fastest lap just couple of lap before the crash?

        Kimi made overly optimistic move bit like MV or DR, just that VB close the door.

        Certain angle make kimi more responsible while other show it was optimistic(overly) but not total unexpected consider kimi already did similar move with him.

        So,Its kimi’s fault, but VB could have given him more space and got away with podium.

      2. @npf1 Verstappen has come from further back and made it work on similar tyres in China.

        1. and wasn’t DR did similar move to Kimi on Monaco? How did it go again? or Perez in 2013 monaco?

        2. Pretty much every other overtake RIC makes comes from that far behind. Sometimes it works like with VET in Monza 2014 and sometimes it goes up in smoke like in Hungaroring this year.

          It was Kimi’s fault and I fully expect he’ll get a penalty but he wasn’t the first one to make a move like that and won’t be the last..

          1. And the one in Monza worked because there was tyre deg difference with Vettel…. Not saying those moves don’t work but Ricciardo overdoes it sometimes. Monaco, Hungary this year.

      3. His good pace compared to Vettel was Vettel on his gearbox until he passed him on track! He might have cost Vettel a win if Hamilton’s problem was serious…. Not like Raikkonen’s got a shot at championship. He was overly aggressive with his teammate too.

    6. It was a racing incident that happened because Kimi wanted, really. He decided to take that chance, he didn’t overshoot the corner by mistake, it was a voluntary daft move.

      Hope they penalize him for consistency’s sake, because Nico Hulkenberg got one for a less clear-cut move.

      1. Way to describe someone that went on to beat JPM convincingly in 2005-06.

        1. Kimi doesn’t look anywhere near as convincing right now, which is the subject at hand. Nor did he in Nascar or WRC, for that matter.

    7. This is pretty clear cut. Well done to Mercedes on winning the Constructors’.*

      *Assuming a 20-second penalty given to Raikkonen, which is what should be given here.

      1. a 10s stop and go, which converts to a 30s after race penalty added to his time it is.

        Guess it was Kimi and F1 world disagreeing, not just Bottas.

    8. I truly like Raikkonen but it was his fault. Sloppy, overly optimistic lunge that you could see wasn’t going to work before he’d even started it. Given he’s usually pretty darn good at wheel-to-wheel racing, and pretty quick to admit blame when he does wrong I’m rather disappointed to see not only him making such a dumb error but not taking responsibility.

      Nice to see him with a bit of fire underneath him for once though. Does deserve a penalty for it.

    9. So it’s 30 seconds penalty. Pretty consistent with previous collisions yeah?

      1. So no grid penalty for the next race? Really consistent stewarding. If this was Hulkenberg diving we would probably see a harsher punishiment.

    10. Oohh… a tough one IMO. On face value, Kimi’s fault, it was a lunge from far back. But – last lap, stakes are high, and one metre difference and it might have gone the other way.

      Senna would approve. Put the car there, make the other driver decide whether to have an accident or not. Looking at the different angles, Kimi was following Valtteri around the corner, then should have appeared in his mirrors as taking the inside line. I wonder whether Valtteri had focused on the corner by that stage and not looked at mirrors.

      Raikkonen would have made the corner too – definitely wasn’t a case where he would have no hope of making the corner. They both took reasonably controlled entries into the corner, and independently both probably would have made it around. Looks worse than it was IMO because of Kimi’s lockup when he realises Valtteri wasn’t going to yield – you can see it as soon as Valtteri makes the move toward the apex.

      So, Kimi’s fault there was a collision. Valtteri’s fault he didn’t get any points.

      1. He has to look forward though sometimes, he can’t always look in his mirrors and I presume at that point he was looking at the apex. It was a ridiculous lunge that reminded me of Kovaleinen at Spa way back when (who also got penalised) or as you say, some of Senna’s questionable driving. True he had a go, fair enough but at least admit guilt after the event. Lots of Williams employees deserve it.

      2. Senna might approve of the intent, but the execution on his part would’ve been much better. To make sure you are seen and to legally assert your right to a corner, you must have a substantial portion of your car (and in many series the whole car) alongside at the turn in point. If you look at the overhead video, Kimi has barely a nose alongside at turn-in, and tries to brake along a diagonal toward the apex. The last 10 metres before contact his car is moving in a straight line, thus understeering, and thus he has no grip to avoid contact with Bottas. It was not a “one metre difference”– he has no grip and would have understeered well past the apex. He is not under control of his car. It is not even close to being “his” corner. Contrast this to the video of Lewis on Kimi at Monza (shared by Traverse on a different thread– thanks!). Lewis brakes late in a straight line and has his car fully alongside and possibly even slightly ahead at turn-in. Despite a brief lock-up, his car is completely under control and at proper speed for the chicane once he has turned in. For his part, knowing it was the last lap, Bottas should have predicted that Kimi might try a banzai type lunge and could have taken a proactive defensive line into the braking zone. Otherwise, his only hope was to have braked early and tried to undercut Kimi on the exit, which would likely have worked given how much understeer Kimi had going in and how tight his line was.

        1. OK. The F1 rule is the following: if the front tyre of the overtaking car is in front of the rear (!) tyre of the car in front, then the car in front has to (!) leave enough room for the overtaking car to make the turn, which means in this case that Bottas is not allowed to cut the corner on the racing line as he admitted to have done but should have left one car’s width for Kimi. Kimi on the other hand should be able to make the turn and leave at least one car’s width for Bottas at the outside of the corner, so no racing line there either. It was an unexpected move from Kimi, but if you watch it from various angles it is obvvious that Kimi’s car’s front tyre is definately ahead of Bottas’ rear tyre, so he was entitled to have his space in the corner. It was only when he realized that Bottas did not use the mirror and cuts the corner at the racing line and will hit him that he desperately started to break not because of the corner but to avoid the crash. He did not manage even though his front right tyre blocked and smoked. Even with this braking maneouvre his fron tyre was side by side with Bottas’ rear tyre. You may say, OK, it is not in front so he should let Bottas have the corner but it was only a late reasult of his desperate breaking to avoid the crash. If Kimi had continued his overtaking maneouvre it would have been clear that he had his front tyre in front of Bottas’ rear tyre and Bottas should have given him space to make the turn.

          There is no centre-line rule in F1 and you can see in practice that they do not use such a rule, if one’s tyres are between the other’s than it is racing in turns side by side and that is how most tyre slightly hits the side of the other car types of collisions happen usually without damage.

          So it was Bottas’ fault who did not check the mirror because he considered the overtaking unplausible as he thought Kimi was too far away. These are his words, except of course accepting the blame.

          I know it sound even crazy or extremely biased by some, but read it through again with open mind and check the various camera footages for more info. Some will show it clearly some not. But if you know what to look for, you will see it.

          Very simple rule, much used but after crashes often overlooked.
          Best regards to you all

    11. Back in 2013 Perez pulled a similar kind of dive bombing pass on Raikkonen and his take was that Perez deserves a punch in the face. I mean we criticize the stewards for not being consistent, I think Kimi really needs to take it like a man on this one and let Bottas have a free shot in Austin.

      1. Trouble was that back then Perez was running into Raikkonen almost every race.

        1. If it’s wrong multiple times it’s wrong once.

    12. maybe a BBW issue for Raikkonnen

    13. It is easy to be Kimi these days. He doesn t need to be quick at all and even when he makes a gross mistake like this nobody at Ferrari seem to care.
      He is literaly robbing them. Being paid to achieve nothing.

      1. Nah, he’s a big name who wont upset Vetel the Petal.
        IMHO, while Kimi is fun to watch some of the time, he’s vastly over rated. Mind you, I think Vetel is too.

    14. Bottas is a bit of an easy victim when he’s being overtaken. He tends to jump out of the way when drivers come from far back to attempt an overtake. So it’s no wonder drivers will try to take him from ever further back .

      What I don’t understand tough, is that if Bottas had moved out of the way like he usually does then Raikkonen would not have gotten a penalty. That makes no sense. Either the overtake is on or it isn’t. It can’t only be a legal move if the driver in front lets himself get passed.

      Ricciardo and Verstappen do a lot of these do or die overtakes and usually get away with it.

      1. It sounds to me like you’re trying to excuse Raikkonnen for what was a boneheaded move. And if you want to know the difference between that and the moves Ricciardo and Verstappen do, Ricciardo and Verstappen got alongside properly.

        1. Pft. Divebombs are done because you cannot get alongside properly. Was Ricciardo alongside Rosberg in Hungary? Or alongside Raikkonen in Monaco? I remember a dive-bomb from Verstappen because he couldn’t stop without hitting the back of his teammate’s car!

          1. There’s a difference between a divebomb and a desperate lunge

      2. Overtakes like this are stuf of champeons. Ric Rai Ver, no problem, gotta love it. No matter the penalty, its how its done.

    15. Didn’t expect Kimi to apologise and he didn’t. Can’t believe he’ll be at Ferrari next year.

    16. Doing “Maldonado’s” is not something that Kimi does a lot.
      Therefor, I forgive his misjudgement on his overtake attempt.

    17. What’s the big deal about this? People do this all the time and sometimes accidents happen. Would’ve been one hell of a overtake if Kimi had pulled that. Move on.

    18. Raikkonen messed up.

    19. Once you’ve missed your braking point, its no longer a legit overtaking move. Braking where Kimi did, he’d never have made the corner.

    20. Kimi being a racing driver most of his life , knows that once there is an oportunity , you have to take it. That move is what separates him and a couple more current drivers from the rest of the pack.

      Now we talk through Bottas moves and position on the track – he knows KR is there , behind him , and tries to slow him down as he knows Ferrari is slower on the following straight, what anybody would do if has a faster, more powerful car . He needed the straightline speed to get away from the better cornering Ferrari. He opened the corner nice and wide, with the intention of slowing as much as possible KR behind him. Definately not a defensive line carrying speed trhough a corner .

      Kimi Raikkonen – sees the deep braking of Bottas and the opportunity to dive in as he sees – one , a chance to dive in, two – to have a chance on the straight after the corner . Dont forget tracks are not drien corner by corner and straight by straight….

      Unfortunately for both of them , Bottas made two wrong decisions – to slow too much for the corner, expecting KR to follow him , – and two – after he realised KR went for it, tried to shut the door, had no speed , and misjudged the defencive move completely in terms of track positioning.

      To me definately a racing accident to a loss to both of them.

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