Hamilton “gives as good as he gets” with Verstappen – Horner

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In the round-up: Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton race each other equally as hard, Red Bull team principal Christian Horner claims, following a bitterly contested Saudi Arabian Grand Prix in which his driver collected two penalties.

In brief

Hamilton “wily” in combat – Horner

While Verstappen was criticised for lunging from a distance back to force Hamilton wide in incidents at Interlagos and Jeddah, Horner says the Mercedes driver is prepared to use the same tactics.

“Look at Lewis’s incident in the final corner,” said Horner. “He pushed Max off in the same way.

“For any driver that’s come through karts that has raced in any category, that is hard racing. That’s how these kids race their careers.

“Lewis gives just as he gets. He’s very wily with the way he does it sometimes. But look at the last corner, when he ran Max out wide there. Look at, there was another corner as well where he’s opened the steering wheel when he was into turn one two.

“These are two guys that are fighting over such fine margins, pushing to the boundary. If you don’t want them to have the ability to run wide, put a gravel trap there.”

Verschoor replaces Fittipaldi at Charouz

Formula 2 race winner Richard Verschoor, who was lying tenth in the championship when he was dropped by MP Motorsport ahead of the Saudi Arabian round, will return to the series this weekend at Charouz in place of the injured Enzo Fittipaldi.

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Comment of the day

DaveW was another reader unimpressed with the Jeddah spectacle:

Everyone agrees the circuit is problematic. But this is a brand new circuit and event, and thus raises questions about the basic values and governance of the sport. Why is this race here at all? Is KSA a major market for the F1 team brands and sponsors? Does it fulfil a strategy of regional growth to expand the footprint of the sport?

We just saw incredible events put on at Zandvoort, Austin, Mexico City, Brazil with hundreds of thousands of fans, a photogenic backdrop, all the atmosphere you want, in significant commercial markets. We looked at all of that and said, why don’t we make a new track in a no-place no one cares about, where no fans are going to turn up, and we’ll just accept whatever the promotors cobble together at the last moment. It doesn’t make any sense at all. Yes you can say it’s about money. But developing the brand and scale of the sport has much more long term financial importance than collecting a dollop of sovereign wealth on a single day.
DaveW (@Dmw)

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to Myles Woerner, Samuel Tatipamula and Julien!

On this day in motorsport

  • On this day in 1993 Ayrton Senna appeared before the World Motor Sports Council over punching Eddie Irvine at the Japanese Grand Prix

Author information

Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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68 comments on “Hamilton “gives as good as he gets” with Verstappen – Horner”

  1. Someone needs to ask Horner about the additional penalty he sought for Hamilton because Hamilton missed the apex of a corner because he missed the braking zone. Should drivers receive a 5 second penalty for each corner where they miss the apex?

    1. What did L.H. “get” before he had to “give”?
      Fans should be demanding the following statistics.
      How many times this year L.H. had to take evasive actions from Max’s wrath,
      versus the times the latter had to do likewise against L.H.

      1. The bottom line is,max tried to bully Lewis,and it was working up untill Silverstone.
        And then Lewis decided he ain’t having it no more.
        The difference is tho,Lewis hasn’t been wreckless,he still knows when to back off and when to attack,and it’s helped him get back into the championship fight.

    2. sry, pressed report comment by mistake. shouldnt use my mobile with those clumsy fingers of mine… ;-)

    3. The problem is that one driver gets penalties and the other does not. I don’t think they should penalize either driver but if they are going to go for it.The other 18 drivers are not sharing the same track? They only penalize Max and they almost always cave in on merc’s requests. Take out merc and race direction is going to benefit rb has it has done before Ham joined Merc. Remove merc and rb and we are left with ferrari. Farse1.

  2. If that move by hamilton was him “losing his temper” then I think it was a remarkably well restrained move.

    A bit of a taste of Max’s medicine after finally ceding a position he should have given up long before without all the theatrics.

  3. Am I right in thinking Max had tied Vettel for all time penalty points now at 30 each?

    1. Edit (well, this sites version) no, he has 28, second to Vettel

  4. Verstappen will not resort to crash tactics

    What the … does Horner think has been happening the last two races? I need to use two hands to count the times Hamilton has had to back off to avoid a crash completely compromising his line.

    He won’t use crash tactics but he’ll swerve infront of him, push him wide, squeezed him on the inside, literally slam the brakes infront of him, but no, not crash tactics, ofcourse he would never resort to that.

    1. Chris (@tophercheese21)
      9th December 2021, 2:57

      Horner obviously has to have Max’s back on these matters. Any team principal would support their driver.

      He’s completely wrong. But he’s still got to do it.

      1. Seann Sheriland
        9th December 2021, 4:52

        Because it is all about the money status, and gloating power.

  5. RandomMallard (@)
    9th December 2021, 0:55

    I posted this on the round up late on yesterday, I’m going to post it here again with a couple of slight edits.

    I’ve taken the difficult decision to end the use of this account. This isn’t in response to any one person or group of people in particular, but a combination of what has turned into a long slog of a season, and the just the general abundance of toxicity throughout the F1 community (not helped by literally the two biggest team principals in the sport, nor), and not just limited to this site (this is towards the better end of the spectrum tbh). This combined with a recent change in circumstances for myself has led me to this decision. I may be back in the future, but with the current state of the sport and the fan base I feel I need to take this step.

    I cannot address toxicity without apologising for some of my own comments earlier this season. I contributed to some of the toxicity back them, because what felt like a bit of one-upmanship at the time was really just provocative and unnecessary. So sincere apologies for that.

    A few parting remarks before I delete this account though:

    The FIA needs to sort themselves out. They’ve been embarrassing on so many fronts this season, from track limits, to penalties, to their own procedures and rules. With a new technical era incoming, I really hope we can see some sporting changes made for the better as well.

    I dread the outcome of this weekend. No matter who wins (and I myself now find myself in the Lewis camp having supported Max for most of this season, as I’ve been so appalled with Max’s wheel-to-wheel conduct recently), I know it is going to be taken badly. I wish I could ask everyone to be gracious in both/either defeat or victory, but something inside me tells me that won’t happen. I just hope the F1 community will never stoop so low as to racist abuse against those involved in the sport again.

    I’ve spent all of my time as a Formula 1 fan supporting the idea of more races and longer calendars. The last few weeks have changed my mind. This season has become a long, difficult slog and the last few races have really taken the life out of my love for this sport. While I of course understand the economic benefits for Liberty of holding more races, I now feel the opposite should be implemented.

    Finally, a massive thank you. Over the last few months I’ve enjoyed some fantastic discussions with hugely passionate fans of this sport. I respect that, and those of you know who you are. At it’s best, this site is fantastic for sharing opinions and thoughts. It’s just some people have taken things too far to the extreme for me to feel comfortable participating in discussion any more. As I say, there is no one person or group of people in particular that are behind this, but the collective fan base has become more polarised than I can ever remember it before.

    And beyond that, a massive thank you to Keith, Dieter, Hazel, Will, Ben, Gabriele, RJ, Ida and everyone else who contributes to making this site a fantastic resource for us, for the Racefans. Keep up with your amazing journalism. I’ll still be reading this website and following everything it puts out, albeit it refraining from the comment section for the comment section for the foreseeable future.

    Thank you. Goodbye

    1. Coventry Climax
      9th December 2021, 1:32

      Thank you. I’m not fully at that same stage yet. Close though, and I certainly recognise your sentiment.
      I don’t know if we agreed or disagreed on topics, in our comments, but then, that’s not what it should be about. Some however seem to keep a list of who’s in ‘their team’ or not, and jump to each and every ocasion to slay the ‘opponent’, claiming their ignorance, lack of F1 knowledge or whatever, forgetting they are talking to fellow fans. It’s hard not to get carried away and refrain from re-commenting such comments. I confess to having lost that selfcontrol on some instances.
      The most deadly comment I’ve come across is ‘Then maybe F1 is not for you’, which actually claims that anything that you say, think or feel about motorracing surely has nothing to do with F1, and why don’t you bugger off?
      It’s not OK.

      1. What F1 considers fans these day are people who have become fans of Drive to Survive. This is the key demographic they’re playing to.

    2. @randommallard I’m in a similar frame of mind not so much because of some of the ‘special’ fans, but the direction Liberty are taking F1.
      @Coventry Climax The same comment was made to me. I’ve been watching Motor Racing since before I could walk and went to my first Grand Prix in 1969, I’ll stop when I decide!

    3. It’s just a sport. seeya!

      1. RandomMallard (@)
        9th December 2021, 6:58

        It may be just a sport, but when discussions about that sport descend into personal insults and petty name calling against drivers and other commenters a line has been crossed

        1. @randommallard I’ve suggested before that the comments section should have a block/mute function if possible. I’m more than happy to read or participate in debates with people who hold different opinions but below the line on the majority of articles now so often degenerates into one-eyed delusion at best, out right persistent trolling at worst.

        2. Not deleted just yet then 😀

          1. RandomMallard (@)
            9th December 2021, 10:44

            No it’s going to go into effect in a few hours time. However, on reflection the better option may be just to make the account dormant (i.e. not fully delete it), avoid the chaos that will almost inevitably erupt after Abu Dhabi and see if tensions decrease a bit over the off season. I’ll consider it for a bit longer.

    4. At it’s best, this site is fantastic for sharing opinions and thoughts. It’s just some people have taken things too far to the extreme for me to feel comfortable participating in discussion any more.

      Same here (although I still read some articles and leave some comments, I left a few months ago as a registered/paying ‘member’).

      As much as I share your thanks for the driving forces behind this site, I also ‘hold them accountable’ for not stopping the toxic comments, and even encouraging them (luring in) by the topics of many articles, milking of controversies, and the use of headlines.

      This site used to be for the fanatics of the sport with statistical and technical articles about F1, a daily round-up of ‘competing’ publications, and some fun (Caption Competition).
      Now I feel it’s more for the fanatics of certain drivers, and most articles merely focus on getting as many clicks as possible.

      I’ve noticed that many respected commenters have left/stopped commenting recently. If opening an article from last year, you notice that many of the best commenters are gone/silent now.

      1. And that’s my goodbye

      2. Agreed – it’s a combination of click-bait articles and the “Twitter toxicity” that now pervades online discussion.

        In all honesty, I find the comments section here to be one of the better ones online. While I really like some of the very technical articles on motorsport, the comments section there makes the one here look like kindergarten. Many post are overtly racist and the levels of pure invective are quite shocking.

        1. The ongoing comments and insults between Hamilton and Verstappen fans are getting very tedious. I’m just going to sum it up as follows for all of them. They are both trying to win the championship, they will do everything within their respective powers to win. If you were in their shoes you would probably be driving the exact same way. Neither is going to jump out of the other drivers way and let them win, it would be boring if they did. Just enjoy the show. I like this website and I just want their to be intelligent discourse about motorsport here.

      3. Define “best commenters”.
        I mean, fair enough… you have your views and opinions and you are entitled to them. However, alot of people seem to want to claim F1 as their own secret, high brow boys club that others cannot join unless “approved” by them. Inadvertently you are doing everything you are complaining about.
        There is a different fanbase growing now but all sports need new fanbases.
        Some people rub me up the wrong way with what they say but… such is life. Deal with it or leave. You’ve chosen the latter so I bid you farewell. All the best

    5. @randommallard sorry you have decided to leave, your comments are generally among the more intelligent on this site. Can I recommend you keep looking for more obscure F1 forums with which to discuss F1, as those tend to have fewer ‘troll’ fans and more real fans who want to have real discussions. This is not a dig at racefans, for the articles on here are excellent and it’s difficult to keep the comments the same as a site becomes bigger and more popular.

    6. @randommallard I certainly understand your reasoning.

      I’ve never been a fan of “more races” and this year has definitely underpinned why more races is not a good idea. Its way to long and tedious which is just appalling given its closeness.

      The sniping and vitriol has reached new lows, as have, quite frankly, driving standards.

      Add to that the forcing of “sprint qualifying” upon us and then the narrative being that “everyone” (teams, drivers, fans etc) was overwhelmingly happy with it even when we’re not has just plain destroyed my enthusiasm for F1.

      I just get the feeling that things are being “scripted” for the purposes of making F1 a huge entertainment show at the expense of any sense of sport or skills.

      I’m going to continue into next season and will watch from the first “non sprint” event but I’ll be seriously evaluating my future participation.

      All the best to you – I think we disagreed at times during discussions but that’s what forums like these should be for – to discuss, not to bully.

    7. Very sorry to read this @randommallard but at the same time I completely see where you are coming from. We’ve been involved in some fantastic exchanges on this site this past year in particular, and the fact you feel inclined to leave is such a shame and really shows how bad things have become. I am also guilty for at times lowering my standard of comment, sometimes choosing to fight fire with fire in the heat of the moment on my phone instead of taking a step back and thinking about exactly what I am writing. I really hope you return when the dust settles and we can move on into 2022 with a better standard of debate.

      Although this weekend might descend into the kind of thing you are fearing, I actually have some hope. Marko came out and apologised yesterday for what happened in Baku (not sure if it was in yesterday’s round-up?), and whilst Horner continues as he does, I thought that was a step forward and hinted that Abu Dhabi may not descend into the type of race we are all fearing.

      As you probably know, I am not a fan of ‘drive to survive’ culture that seems to have brought a lot of new fans to the sport, but also turned F1 into some sort of soap opera as others have called it, less focussed on racing and more focussed on announcing penalties with two team principals in the room like some Hollywood movie. Here I completely stand by Max and his stance towards this culture. F1 is better than this, well it used to be, and we can only hope that 2022 is a return to better standards, on track and off it, not least because it will enable members such as yourself to return to racefans.

      Take care, it’s been a pleasure.

      1. RandomMallard (@)
        9th December 2021, 11:00

        Thanks all, especially @john-h, @johnrkh, @dbradcock, @f1frog, Michael A (still going strong at 81 or so? Incredible!) jff and Coventry Climax. You are some of the shining lights of this comment section.

        Ee all make mistakes from time to time (as you say John H), but what’s important is we recognise them and work to not repeat them.

        I really do hope to be back in the future, and wish everyone all the best. I will likely delete this account in a few hours. You may still see me around occasionally with some non-account comments (such as jff above), but I’ll be trying to stay away from the controversial articles, especially over the Abu Dhabi weekend (and I share your hope for that weekend John H).

        Take care, all of you. And many, many thanks.

        P.S. Michael A. While I am a bit of a rail fan myself, it isn’t a direct reference to the A4. It’s an in-joke from a few years ago that has accidentally become a kind of online identity for me.

        1. RandomMallard (@)
          9th December 2021, 11:01

          @dbradock sorry

        2. RandomMallard (@)
          9th December 2021, 11:36

          This account is now being deleted. Thank you and goodbye. I wish you all the best

    8. To: Random Mallard, Dieter, Keith and all the other Race Fans’ contributors.
      I have had a great enthusiasm for Formula One since I was ten years old in 1950. That enthusiasm has, mostly, been of a technical nature, but I also have several hero drivers – amongst them Stuart Lewis-Evans, Juan Fangio, Stirling Moss, Mike Hawthorn, Liugi Musso, Bruce McLaren, Jack Brabham, Alan Jones, Ayrton Senna, Kimi Raikkonnen and Sebastian Vettel. Amongst the designers – Rudolph Ullenhaut, Jack Brabham, Patrick Head, Adrian Newey and Colin Chapman.
      However, I feel that our friend Random Mallard has really hit the nail on the head – there are now far too many races, with those that were/are only there to line the coffers of BE and the Liberty mob, I tend to switch off (literally) towards the end of the season, particularly this year. Three races in a row, and at night (which places them at absurd hours for me here in Australia, and I am sympathetic with USA viewers on this) is too much.
      I use this site mostly because there is no more free-to-air TV coverage and I have a principle that dictates that I do not contribute to making extremely rich people even richer – but that is me. I enjoy the majority of articles about Formula One posted on this site, but lately there have been quite a number of just plain rude responses to someone who may not know much about Formula One, but wishes to learn. Such rudeness really gets to me!
      I very strongly feel that the lengthy comment by Random Mallard should be forwarded to the Liberty Media company and to the F.I.A. The message has to go there forcefully!
      It would be worthwhile to find out the truth about what went on at Jeddah last Sunday – any comment from Max Verstappen himself? That is the least we could expect.
      The whole track limits situation this year has bordered on utter stupidity. A car with just two wheels over the white line should be treated as being ‘outside track limits’ – one rule for all, and no appeals.
      My compliments of the season to all at Race Fans.
      Michael A.
      PS – Is the Mallard name a reference to Nigel Gresley’s A4 Pacific record breaking locomotive? If so, I heartily approve!

  6. it is pretty telling how this guy gets unbearable everytime they have a shot at the win. In Vettel’s days it was the same thing, better because he didn’t need to get as defensive about how his driver behaves on the track.

    1. Except that, even if Vettel doesn’t have as much “raw ability and commitment”, he was a better driver than Webber, Hamilton and Alonso, his direct competitors.

      Maybe not faster, maybe not dominating them, simply better.

      And you can’t say that about Verstappen.

      1. @faulty – No, he wasn’t better than Alonso or Hamilton. Vettel barely won in 2010 from Alonso, and Vettel had a dominant car that year (15 poles from 19 races is a dominant car in my book). Alonso had a dominant car in probably 1 race that year – Monza.

  7. Interestingly Red Bull, Horner and Dietrich Mateschitz always opt to go the character assassination route when talking about Hamilton, professional foul and celebrating while Max was suffering in a hospital… The “whataboutism” defense of their driver is strong at Red Bull.

    If we simply go by penalties handed out, I think Max is comfortably in the lead there despite the stewards being told not to investigate Brazil.

    1. Unless you were being sarcastic, can we please stop with the “suffering in hospital” nonsense? It was a routine check-up and he was well enough to post selfies and complain about Hamilton while he was there.

  8. Horner: Well, ‘e would say that, wouldn’t ‘e.

  9. I have found it quite odd people are “appalled” or “shocked” by Red Bull’s conduct on and off track. This isn’t new, they’ve been behaving like this from the time they started winning races back in 2009. Its probably amped up to 11 this year, but its not a massive departure from their usual behaviour.

    Max has pushed and exceeded the limits this season, but if he doesn’t get punished for it, why would he stop doing it? I have to admit, I dont know what is legal and what isnt anymore! Thats how bad the decision making has been.

    Mercedes and Toto Wolff in particular, has been goaded into reacting poorly by Christian Horner, and he keeps falling for it. Frankly, I find it quite funny…haha

    1. I don’t know that it necessarily being shocked and appalled. I think it is just a cumulative effect and seeing the FIA so blatantly in the RB camp. They have always favored RB, but not to this degree. RB makes great villians with petulant max and one-eyed helmut, but I think the saturation point has been reached.

      1. seeing the FIA so blatantly in the RB camp. They have always favored RB, but not to this degree.

        They aren’t and they haven’t.
        Red Bull have had their fair share of both right and wrong calls go against them too.

        The FIA’s camp, if any, is somewhat closer to Liberty’s – as in assisting F1 (generally and this season in particular) make up for the last however many dull, boring and financially damaging seasons all in one go.

      2. @darryn It’s funny how the Verstappen fans all claim the FIA favours Mercedes/Hamilton, while the Hamilton fans claim the exact reverse.

        To me, that suggests the FIA is being fairly even handed. That’s not to suggest they haven’t made mistakes, they clearly have, but the claims of their bias are just excuses from both sides of the driver divide.

        1. @scbriml – I am not a Verstappen nor Hamilton fan, and I say that the FIA does all it can to help Verstappen win the WDC this year. For one, Jean Todt openly stated that they need to stop Mercedes from winning.

          How many times people need to repeat what the FIA did this (and last) year to help Red Bull?

          1) Forbidden “quali mode” (which Verstappen claimed Honda had, unlike Renault, but in the end Red Bull still asked to block this. Curious why?). Helps Red Bull.
          2) Forbidden DAS. Just because. Helps Red Bull.
          3) For three races in a row this year, Red Bull changed their rear wings in parc ferme. Mercedes were disqualified for a minor damage of the rear wing, which didn’t help their quali pace. Helps Red Bull.
          4) No penalty for Interlagos for Verstappen. Not even a review of the incident. Helps Red Bull.
          5) Penalties that have no meaning in Jeddah. Helps Red Bull.
          6) Fake race in SPA. Helps Red Bull.

          As you can see, the FIA helps Red Bull by not only changing the rules, but also on track. Only when there’s no other way but to give a penalty for blatant infractions, they do give penalties (see quali in Qatar, where Verstappen set the best lap under double-yellows. And still it took ages for the FIA to issue the penalty).

      3. “…ond eyed Helmut” 🤣😂

    2. I have to admit, I dont know what is legal and what isnt anymore! Thats how bad the decision making has been.

      That’s the problem right there.
      Nobody knows what the FIA is doing – least of all the FIA.

      This factor (weak and inconsistent application of the rules) is the second most damaging part of F1 – right after the rubbish cars that can’t even race against each other..

    3. @jaymenon10 I mean, F1 is all about pushing the boundaries of what’s acceptable within the rules – we all accept that from a technical point of view, so it stands to reason that the same would be true of driving standards. You would expect drivers to skirt close to the line, and occasionally over it, in pursuit of the kind of minuscule advantage by which races and championships are decided – just as happens with the designs of the cars themselves.

      The problem, as I think most people agree, is that the “line” is ill-defined and appears to shift from weekend to weekend.

      Without doing the whole “he started it” thing, the die for this season was cast at Silverstone. The FIA had the opportunity to impose a meaningful sanction on Hamilton – even if the race stewards didn’t do it, the FIA could have reopened the issue themselves like they did after Jerez 1997 – but they did not do so, and thus the precedent was set that you can punt your opponent out of the race and only get a modest penalty, if he’s put himself in a position to be punted in the first place (despite the efforts of some to rewrite history on this issue, that is the summary of what the officials found). Everything that has followed this season, on both sides, has been an attempt to find the line set by that incident.

      As for Red Bull, I agree they have always been like this. They’re looking for the “line” not just from a technical or driving standards point of view, but from a political one as well. Again, excessive public posturing and lobbying behind the scenes has served them well in the past (I always think back to the 2013 mid-season tyre compound changes), so there’s no reason why they’d stop unless they’re made to.

      1. @red-andy I hate going back to the Silverstone thing over and over again, but what would you consider to be a meaningful sanction? Fan’s are divided on the incident, pretty much down partisan lines. Neutrals, and officials, called it a first lap racing incident with Hamilton predominantly at fault and he was penalised. The fact he managed to recover so successfully from that is irrelevant – anything could have subsequently happened in the laps that followed. Are we saying only apply penalties based on the final race result? Are we saying the faster the car/driver combination, the greater the penalty to mitigate the advantage?
        To warrant a greater penalty, surely you’d have to argue that Hamilton intentionally collided with Max. That he knew, without doubt, that Max would turn in. That it would 100% end Max’s race. That it would not cause serious injury to Max, himself, or marshals. That his car own car would go undamaged. That he could finish in the points, which he desperately needed. That the stewards would not give him a championship defining penalty. Seriously, if the guy is that good at calculating and manipulating the variables, give him the trophy now.

      2. @red-andyThe FIA had the opportunity to impose a meaningful sanction on Hamilton – even if the race stewards didn’t do it, the FIA could have reopened the issue themselves like they did after Jerez 1997

        1997 was a huge non-decision. Schumacher had already lost the WDC, so it was nothing other than a self-serving “show of strength” when it didn’t matter. They disqualified him from the whole season, but let him keep all his points and race wins. Schumacher must laughed like a maniac.

      3. Fantastic Comment. I never looked at Silverstone your way, but u are probably right.

  10. Seann Sheriland
    9th December 2021, 4:49

    It is sad to see a potential great driver, and possible World Champion, come through the ranks, barging in with others getting taken out, has really, learned his MS book of rules, on how to take out your competition.

    Dirty players get dirty results.

    In his current state of mind, he does not deserve the championship, nor would he be a good representative for F1.

    Ill gotten gains are not true wins.

  11. He pushed Max off in the same way.

    Did Hamilton come from a car length behind and brake so late that he went fully off track? No. So no, it’s not even remotely the same.

    What Hamilton did there is perhaps “the same” as what Verstappen does every time he’s half in the lead during a corner. Just go back to Brazil and see how Verstappen ran Bottas off the track in turn 1/2 (going well off the the racing line to do so).

    In this case Hamilton didn’t really have an option either with the dirty way Verstappen is giving places back. He needs to drive oddly defensively not to be cheated on again.

  12. I’m not as sure as Horner. His ‘wily’ claim is also questionable.

  13. lexusreliability?
    9th December 2021, 8:07

    Listening to Christian Horner is like listening to a politician. Wolff can be unbvearable sometimes when Merc have th better package on some race weekends- but he atleast can be and comes across in a measured, diplomatic way. Horner is so selective and biased and never answers the question. If he is going to blame Lewis for pushing Max off track fine. But then that means Brazil was a penalty. If he is going to claim Lewis crashed into Max and caused a collision in Saudi fine. But then he claims Monza was a racing incident.

    Horner also claimed there was a rogue marshal that waved a yellow to cost Max a penalty. Horner was then summoned to the stewards for damaging comments against the FIA. I can’t remember the last time a team principal was summoned to the stewards for their conduct? It may have been 2007 with Dennis? Horner is the type of guy who has no sense of shame and such a distorted view of reality- but that is how he has always been, since Red Bull became competitive in 2009.

  14. On this day in 1993 Ayrton Senna appeared before the World Motor Sports Council over punching Eddie Irvine at the Japanese Grand Prix

    Remember when Verstappen shoved Ocon in Brazil and people lost their minds?

    1. That’s because it’s max. This site needs a bad boy so it does everything possible to feed the narrative. (as does British media in general)
      And with his unforgiving driver style max is an easy target.
      The dirty tactics by Lewis are easely forgotten.

      1. No, it’s because the kind of behaviour is no longer tolerated, let alone celebrated. And his driving style isn’t “unforgiving”. It’s cheating.

      2. Yeah, of course. It was because it’s Max, and not because of the bully attitude. Same with the driving, it’s “unforgiving driver style”, and not “I’m gonna go wide while you’re on the outside, so you either go wide with me or we crash”.

        Sprinkle that with a bit of “British media narrative” victimism and we have the perfect cocktail.

  15. We can launch a million articles about basically the same. This season was the worst I have seen since the late 70s. And it followed a decade of one team domination without a single hint of actual competition. This has nothing to do with a sport, its a festival with a known outcome. In 2-3 years I expect all cars to be sponsored by Netflix and some popcorn brand.

    1. The last race was the worst I have ever seen. 30years of viewing. One driver had 4 rule infringements whilst racing his main rival. Two of which attracted time penalties, the other two with forced position reversal by the race control.
      On 2 out of three occasions his rival had to leave the track to avoid contact and the third incident braking on a 300+ kph part of the track led to contact. It looked for all the world like one driver was deliberately trying on repeated attempts to have contact with the other.
      Frankly unbelievable that that is not a black flag.

  16. The thing I find so hard to take about Horner is the blatant hypocrisy. Describing the collision as down to Lewis being desperate not to overtake before the drs line but in no way accepting his driver braking had anything to do with the same thing.

    And complaining about Lewis pushing Max off at turn 27 (where Lewis didn’t leave the track) but saying it’s just racing when Max does it once in Brazil and twice in the last race, even when on all 3 of those occasions Max couldn’t keep his own car on track!

    I don’t believe this attitude has helped Max’s title bid either. With some more circumspection from Max in various past incidents, he’d likely be well ahead going into this race. Guidance he should have had from his team principle.

  17. Oh Dear to those leaving & to the nearly leaving.
    Please don’t slam the door on the way out! ByeBye!
    Karen Spice & Vera Slapem!
    Best double “act” since Morecambe & Wise!

    1. Are you drunk?

  18. As manny have noted before, it’s not just Max who likes to push the limits, it’s the enviroment in which Max is supported in this behaviour. The goldenboy status does harm not only to Max, but to the sport. I’ve been watching the sport voor nearly 20 years. Although I’ve supported Lewis since 2007, I’ve always enjoyed the competition. The way RB management contributed to the polarisation is concerning, especially since most Max fans are just Max fans and not F1 fans

    1. You can equally say the same about Ham fans too. Many are only supporting him because of his skin colour and have little interest or knowledge about racing.

  19. As a 40+ year fan of F1, i find it sad that we talk more now about driving and stewardship standards, conspiracy, and TV ratings than we do about innovation, driver skill, and great racing. If sensationalism is the direction the FIA allow Liberty to take the sport, then i hope they have a long-term strategy to lock in the fair-weather Netflix generation.

  20. Re COTD: To ensure sustainability of the sport it was only reasonable not only to bring it closer to where the fans reside but also where the car manufacturers market are. So having three races in US and four races in middle east should be consider acceptable even if we knew those are not the place most eager fans lived.

  21. The sad thing about Max (like him or not) is that’s he’s more than good enough to win races against the super fast Mercs without resorting to questionable manoeuvres.

    It seems his lack of maturity is pushing him to take silly risks at times because that Merc is so strong. He has to put it all on the line to fight back and sometimes its too much.

  22. Horner is just saying what he has to, given the situation, and defending his driver. It’s mostly nonsense, and he knows that himself, but if asked questions about Max being overly aggressive etc, he can’t just agree with it. So he ends up having to point to one borderline move from Hamilton in the last race, as though it balances out multiple over-the-lines moves from Max.

    What I’m sure he expects to happen after this season is for rules to be further clarified to clamp down on some of the driving standards. He’ll duly kick up a bit of a fuss stating it’s unfairly targeting Max for being an excellent hard-racing driver, before quietening down and letting the clarifications become the norm again (because he understands it went too far this year).

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