Max Verstappen added to his ever-growing list of Formula 1 achievements at the British Grand Prix, but his team mate Sergio Perez had the indignity of being knocked out in Q1.
Perez has only reached Q3 four times in 10 attempts so far during 2023, and he has an average starting position of 14.6 from the last five grands prix after he qualified 15th for a second successive weekend at Silverstone.That’s the worst qualifying form for a Red Bull driver since 2007, when David Coulthard had an average starting position of 14.8 over the European, Hungarian, Turkish, Italian and Belgian grands prix. While Red Bull have won every race so far this season, in 2007 they were yet to score their first victory, and peaked with a single third place that year.
Verstappen took pole, the 27th of his career, with McLaren’s Lando Norris and Oscar Piastri qualifying second and third. It was Norris’s third front row start, ending a 39-race wait since the 2021 Russian Grand Prix for McLaren to make the front row, and was rookie Piastri’s best ever starting position for a grand prix. It marked the first time two McLarens had started in the top three since the 2021 Italian Grand Prix.
The victory was Verstappen’s sixth in a row. There have only been four longer winning streaks in F1 history. He matched former Red Bull driver Sebastian Vettel with his 11th consecutive podium. Only Michael Schumacher, Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso have had longer uninterrupted runs on the podium, and of those Schumacher is the only one to have exceeded Verstappen’s tally of ten podiums since the start of a season. More significantly it was Red Bull’s 11th win in a row, meaning they have matched McLaren’s long-standing record from 1988.
With only a few laps run behind the Safety Car, it was the fastest British GP since 2019. Verstappen’s average speed was 215.424kph, which made it the second-fastest race of 2023 so far.
Other milestones Verstappen reached included a 29th consecutive finish, which is the seventh-longest run in F1 history, the 26th fastest lap of his career, his 150th race with Red Bull (the joint fourth-longest association between a driver and a team), an Ayrton Senna-matching seventh win of the year from pole and an eighth career hat-trick putting him joint-fifth in the all-time list with Alain Prost and Vettel.
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Further down the order, Williams’ Alexander Albon qualified and finished eighth. The four points he scored lifted the team from ninth to seventh in the constructors’ standings. They last held that position after the season-opener, when Albon scored the first of Williams’ 11 points to date in 2023, but before that their last appearance in the top seven was in 2017.
It also marked the team’s best result on home soil since 2015, as only four times since 2005 has a Williams car finished higher than eighth at the British Grand Prix.
Other teams had less to celebrate, including Mercedes who despite surpassing 7,000 points scored as a constructor in F1 and being the only team other than Red Bull to have won in the last 12 months had a car that was not competitive in qualifying and led to Hamilton’s starting from seventh, his worst qualifying result at home since 2012.
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The timing of the Safety Car helped lift Hamilton to third in the race. That meant there were two drivers from the United Kingdom on the British GP podium for the first time since 1999.
Behind Alonso and Albon were the two Ferraris, marking the first time the Scuderia has been off the British GP podium since 2016 and their worst showing at the race since 2010 when their cars finished 14th and 15th.
Alfa Romeo dropped from eighth to ninth in the constructors’ standings with their second point-less weekend in a row, being jumped by Williams. Having headed to Silverstone 20 points behind McLaren, they left it 50 points in arrears.
Have you spotted any other interesting stats and facts from the British Grand Prix? Share them in the comments.
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2023 British Grand Prix
- Norris is “growing” closer to the champion who inspired him to race
- Second supplier part failure ‘a frustrating issue we must solve’ – Alpine
- Albon ‘surprised’ to be quicker than Alonso at end of British GP
- Bottas admits Alfa Romeo ‘were expecting to be better than this’ in 2023
- McLaren now “finding performance quicker” after emulating Red Bull’s design
Alex
12th July 2023, 7:59
‘Worst qualifying performance since Coulthard’ sounds like a compliment to be honest. I’d take it!
(I know the cars don’t compare and he has work to do; just found the comparison striking)
Bullfrog (@bullfrog)
12th July 2023, 15:34
Must have been Coulthard tribute day at Red Bull. Commentating on Max, DC said “now I feel better about my pitwall incident in Adelaide”!
MacLeod (@macleod)
13th July 2023, 7:39
Lot of people were waiting on a car hitting the wall from the box (any car) as the angle is rather short to turn. Not that it hinder Max a lot
Adrian Hancox (@ahxshades)
12th July 2023, 8:10
Surely this is a statistic for the sake of having a statistic rather than actually being useful?
Or maybe its just me.
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
12th July 2023, 10:45
@ahxshades given that he’s racing the fastest car by FAR, I think it’s relevant…
George.be
12th July 2023, 18:22
By FAR is overdoing it. Yes the RB19 is the fastest car out there, but the margins are nowhere near extreme. It’s just that the rest of the field is extremely close. I can’t remember a single season where the third to thirteenth car were so close in laptimes, and switched positions at every race. I would need to see the data.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
12th July 2023, 18:55
Yes, and varies on a race by race basis: take canada, in race pace aston wasn’t far at all, and then you have the races where verstappen builds up a 30 sec gap.
anon
13th July 2023, 10:22
@esploratore1 in Canada, the available telemetry data indicates Verstappen was running his engine in a lower power mode for most of the race – it was only in the latter part of the race that he seemed to be running his engine in a more normal power setting. That would also tie in with the radio messages sent to Verstappen noting that his rivals were pushing harder than he was and still couldn’t keep up with him, suggesting Verstappen was holding back some performance.
Edvaldo
12th July 2023, 21:30
@George.be
It is by far the fastest car out there. That’s as clear as a day.
How can a car that wins most races by margins bigger than 20s not be by far the fastest?
The only race that it had a tiny little bit of trouble was Canada, “just” 9 secs.
The fact that Perez fail to qualify better by his incompetence has nothing to do with the car.
Mayrton
15th July 2023, 7:48
There is a Verstappen element in it as well.
drmouse (@drmouse)
13th July 2023, 7:53
The smallest margin Max has been able to build has been about 10s, and it’s normally over 20s. I think that qualifies as “by far”. It may not be as much as we saw early in the hybrid era, but it’s still very significant.
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
12th July 2023, 8:11
Let’s try this… Perez only qualified for q3 in 5 (so half ) of the races this season in the best car of the field… It’s really really bad.
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
12th July 2023, 8:12
Oh and he only finished on the podium in half the races
Initially
12th July 2023, 9:52
Maybe the car is just the average of the two drivers. Then it isn’t the best car.
paulguitar (@paulguitar)
12th July 2023, 11:43
@Initially
It’s probably the most dominant car in F1 since the FW14B.
Mark Hughes was saying in a podcast recently that if they were not limited by having to nurse the tyres, (as all F1 cars do these days), they’d be able to lap the field.
CheeseBucket
12th July 2023, 19:00
It was a joke. He was joking.
MacLeod (@macleod)
13th July 2023, 7:41
We will see at Spa @cheesebucket but i think Max could lap the field if he starts at pole….
melanos
14th July 2023, 1:31
[the 2023 RBR]
Well, sorry but certainly not.
The most dominant car since the FW14B (and MUCH more dominant than the FW14B btw) was the W05 of 2014. With the W05 any pillock could win pretty much all races. The advantage of the present RBR is razor-thin in comparison
The only car in F1 history which was more dominant than the W05 was the 1962 Fezza Sharknose but that was way before the FW14B
Check f1metrics for detailed info
melanos
14th July 2023, 1:32
1961 Sharknose
Edvaldo
12th July 2023, 12:15
this made me laugh so much.
thanks mate.
paulguitar (@paulguitar)
12th July 2023, 13:43
Are you addressing me, Edvaldo?
If so, what do you disagree with, and why? Here is a link to the discussion I referenced:
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/british-gp-mclaren-is-back-or-is-it/id1495557562?i=1000620409401
Some interesting discussion as to the ultimate pace of the Red Bull, by people who analyse F1 performance for a living. Hopefully, it will be of interest.
Edvaldo
12th July 2023, 13:50
nope, it was not meant to you. It’s under you comment because you sent your reply first.
paulguitar (@paulguitar)
12th July 2023, 13:57
Ah, okay, thanks.
Frank
12th July 2023, 13:12
Performance of Perez seems to suggest so. But… despite missing q3 regularly Perez is still easily outscoring Alonso, Hamilton, Russell, Leclerc, Norris….
Hard to believe Perez could do that without having a better car.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
12th July 2023, 19:04
It’s very simple: look at what the best driver is doing with it, verstappen is not miles ahead of the best drivers ever, even if you consider him the best ever, he can only do what is possible, so the car can be considered dominant, so far at least.
Facts&Stats
12th July 2023, 14:33
You’ll be shocked to hear it’s only 4/10 :P
JB22
12th July 2023, 8:14
Barricheco should retire immediately, embarrassing performance.
Edvaldo
12th July 2023, 12:18
I guess people didn’t watch Barrichello to use his name on these situations, for these kind of drivers.
Barrichello would take this car to 2nd place much more often than Perez can ever dream of.
Craig
13th July 2023, 7:57
To be fair Ferrari was at least up front with Barrichello regarding his position in the team.
MichaelN
12th July 2023, 17:30
Very unfair on Barrichello, who was a vastly superior driver. He just had the misfortune of being paired with Schumacher.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
12th July 2023, 19:06
Mmm, both drivers had impressive performances on occasion in midfield car, which caught the radar of a top team, monaco 1997 in the rain example, or perez’s win in force india in bahrain outer track 2020 and perez wasn’t doing too bad early season, don’t think that performance was worse than barrichello’s.
Jere (@jerejj)
12th July 2023, 8:29
Additionally, Red Bull’s first victory in Silverstone since 2012.
The other four drivers with winning streaks of six or more consecutive races are Alberto Ascari, Michael Schumacher, Sebastian Vettel, & Nico Rosberg.
Max Verstappen entered top ten in most pole positions.
Additionally, he took his 50th front-row start, while Mclaren took their first front-row start in Silverstone since 2008 when Heikki Kovalainen started on pole position.
The second event this season with both Williams drivers reaching Q2 after the Azerbaijan GP.
Fernando Alonso’s twentieth British GP appearance, matching Kimi Räikkönen for most British GP appearances in F1.
I know I already mentioned this stat concerning the Austrian GP weekend, but as a British GP update, drivers with more Q3 appearances than Sergio Pérez this season besides his teammate: ALO, SAI, HAM, LEC, RUS, OCO, STR, GAS, HUL, NOR, PIA, with ALB tied at four.
Only BOT, ZHO, TSU, DEV, MAG, & SAR have made fewer or zero Q3 appearances across the first ten events.
Alpine duo suffered their second consecutive British GP DNFs.
The first race without a single driver getting lapped even briefly & thus entirely blue flag-free for a long time, if ever.
Yes, several races have ended with all finishing drivers on the lead lap, but afair, all of those featured at least a single lapping event, such as the 2021 Azerbaijan GP, as an example.
Steve Rogers (@beeflin)
12th July 2023, 9:51
Wow, the first F1 GP ever without lapping?
Initially
12th July 2023, 9:54
Wow that truly is an amazing stat and achievement!
Jere (@jerejj)
12th July 2023, 12:47
@beeflin I don’t know for certain, but possibly.
At the very least, the first for a long time or the first I can recall.
Facts&Stats
12th July 2023, 14:47
Spa 2021
Or less contentious: USA 2022 (and I assume many more).
Simon
12th July 2023, 15:10
@jerejj If you can’t confirm it Statto, don’t say it 😐
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
12th July 2023, 19:12
It seemed strange because ofc the cars of the past had massive performance difference, so it would be more likely for this to happen now, but over so many races… however usa 2022 was also after the budget cap, so I guess they managed to do something right with it. I wonder if there’s none like that in the early years of f1.
KaIIe (@kaiie)
12th July 2023, 14:20
“Additionally, Red Bull’s first victory in Silverstone since 2012.” Slight correction: Red Bull’s first victory in the British GP since 2012. Verstappen won the 70th Anniversary Grand Prix in 2020.
Simon
12th July 2023, 15:13
Yeah, UK TV channels were careful to say the same during their commentaries/post-shows
S
12th July 2023, 8:51
Never mind how this looks for Perez – this is a damning as it gets for the team. The massively unequal levels of support and development focus they are giving to each of their drivers is laid bare for all to see, once again.
This could have been 2016 or 1988 all over again – but instead, the team have decided it should be more like 2004 or 2020. Or 2022…
PMP
12th July 2023, 10:32
I see this claim regularly, but never have I seen any evidence for it.
Tbh it’s probably just a convenient and untrue explonation that achieves two goals: explains why Perez lacks pace and makes RB look like the bad guy.
I lean towards the explonation that Perez is supported by the team, but lacks pace and consistency when compared to MV.
anon
12th July 2023, 11:01
PMP, it is a criticism that is not entirely without basis: after Ricciardo left Red Bull, Marko stated that the engineering teams were restructured to prioritise Verstappen, with the more experienced members of staff being concentrated into his team.
One of the complaints that Ricciardo raised when he left the team was Red Bull’s plans to shift Mike Lugg into the role of race engineer for Ricciardo, even though Lugg lacked experience in that role. That does seem to be reflected in Gasly’s criticisms of Red Bull, as he was complaining that the engineers allocated to him lacked the experience needed to be able to support his development and that the senior management did not seem interested in trying to further his technical development.
Indeed, it is worth noting that Red Bull kind of acknowledged some of those issues in the end – Lugg was initially allocated to Albon as well, but he was eventually moved out of that position after Red Bull effectively admitted in their public statement that he wasn’t experienced enough to hold that role.
notagrumpyfan
12th July 2023, 14:57
Every team (should) prioritise its main/fastest driver. This driver (not to use ‘he’) is most likely to maximise points for the team.
Also all teams share all data between all driver teams, and (typically) no driver is made slower.
Thus the claim by S is as rubbish as it can be, only to make the poster belief that what we see on track between teammates has nothing to do with the drivers’ performances but only the team and the car.
I guess the poster will come up with similar claims if Ricciardo proves to be slower than Tsunoda :P
anon
12th July 2023, 16:40
Isn’t there a contradiction in your answer? You talk about prioritising your best driver, but then seem to try and argue that it’s not beneficial for the driver due to that data being shared – if that was the case, then why would you need to concentrate the engineers into a single team?
There is also the question of whether it really is beneficial for the team to have such an imbalance in their teams. If you are effectively reducing the potential for less experienced members of your team to learn from your more experienced staff by separating them, that policy is potentially counter-productive for the team in the long term.
Furthermore, your argument revolves around the lead driver maximising their points haul – which isn’t necessarily the same priority as that of the team, where the combined points total from their drivers is usually the priority.
S
12th July 2023, 16:46
That’s great if you want only one driver to be the primary points scorer, while the other struggles with a car that doesn’t suit them.
One driver may dominate, while the other will probably end up being incredibly uncomfortable in the car, make silly mistakes in qualifying trying to make up for handling instabilities/unpredictability and regularly finish off the podium or even outside of the points despite the car essentially being very fast in certain hands. This extreme bias will ultimately cost the team in the WCC relative to their more balanced rivals who consistently have two cars near the top of the field rather than just one.
Sound familiar?
Sharing data doesn’t make a driver more comfortable or confident. That can only come from within the car and the engineering teams – and team politics. The car and driver are a team that must work together in harmony as much as everything else involved.
Not nothing to do with driver’s performance at all – but their performance is hugely dependent on how the car suits their natural driving style.
If it suits one driver but not the other, their performances are destined to be different.
What was going on at the beginning of this season? Perez was happy and confident in the car while Verstappen wasn’t – then suddenly something changed, Vertappen was happy and fast and Perez apparently forgot how to drive… Either that or the car changed…? Nah, of course that’s not possible.
I’d expect Ricciardo to have some challenges adapting to a car he’s never raced before compared to a guy who’s in his second season in it, yeah. Why does that seem crazy to you?
And if he’s faster than Tsunoda, why is it so unbelievable to you that it might just suit his driving style more than Tsunoda’s? Race teams don’t always know exactly what they are doing – especially not the ones at that end of the grid…. That’s often why they are there and not at the front.
notagrumpyfan
12th July 2023, 21:25
Where do I argue that?
Since the rest of your argument/comment is based on that incorrect interpretation, I will not comment on that ;)
S
12th July 2023, 11:12
Can’t see the forest for the trees, huh? You’re seeing this evidence at every GP – especially in qualifying.
That’s probably (almost certainly) true – but doesn’t explain why his form at the beginning of the season was so much stronger (relative to the rest of the field, at least) and the immediate drop-off after Miami.
Car updates and team politics do explain it to a large extent, though.
I don’t think that alone makes them look like a ‘bad guy’ at all – Mercedes did it for years, Red Bull again before that and Ferrari have pretty much always done it right up until their current driver line-up. It’s just the way teams approach F1.
What does make them look bad, however, is that they flat out lie about it.
And clearly, some people are believing those lies – despite all the evidence and basic common sense.
Antz (@antznz)
12th July 2023, 10:43
Or it could be that Max is very good. Alonso used to destroy team mates. Hamilton pretty much did the same to Nico & Bottas so it may simply be that it’s soul destroying going up against the best.
S
12th July 2023, 11:21
Verstappen is very good. Alonso and Hamilton too.
It’s not just sour grapes that their team-mates regularly state pretty much exactly what I’ve said, though – that each car update typically makes it harder and harder for them to get comfortable in the car.
That’s not even a thinly veiled code – it’s a clear and accurate explanation that the team is prioritising car development away from their driving preferences and toward those of their team mate.
What’s ‘soul-destroying’ for these drivers is knowing that at the beginning of a given season they had a genuine shot at becoming champion on (F1-style) merit – but as each car update rolled in, their own team took it away from them to give it to the other guy.
paulguitar (@paulguitar)
12th July 2023, 11:46
There’s no doubt that he’s very good, Antz.
Let’s be realistic though. Perez is a journeyman and has never been more than that consistently. So Verstappen has a colossal car advantage and is completely unchallenged, either from within his team or outside of it.
Stephen Crowsen (@drycrust)
12th July 2023, 12:15
This is my opinion too. The problem isn’t so much Sergio isn’t producing the results he should be, rather it is Max is excelling at getting the car to get the results it does. This leads us to the question of whether the RB19 is actually an exceptional car in the hands of a good driver, or a good car in the hands of an exceptional driver, and I think it is the latter. That would explain why Sergio is struggling to perform as well as Max, because the car won’t just give him the results he wants, he has to drive the car so it can perform as well as Max and his car do. Now every driver, and especially Sergio and Daniel, needs to be studying how Max drove each race to try and replicate his style.
Steve Rogers (@beeflin)
12th July 2023, 13:10
I’m not sure that’s true – after all, when Perez does start to charge from the back half, his overtaking performance is as impressive as Max’s. The car looks excellent rather than good to me.
Coventry Climax
12th July 2023, 13:20
Yes and no. I agree with the exceptional driver in a good car bit, although it’s probably at least a very good car too.
As to the studying of Verstappen’s driving, I’d say it’s better to take five minutes to understand who you are, than spend an hour on figuring out who someone else is. I’m sure there’s flaws in Verstappen too, but he maximizes his plusses. That should be the way to go for Perez too.
Perez’ flaw is mainly in his mind. I’ve said it over and over again, he makes silly, hot head decisions under pressure, and once the pressure is off, he’ll drive a magnificent recovery race. F1 is not about recovery races though, it’s about being there on hour zero of day one. He needs to learn to deal with pressure. Saying ‘I coudn’t care less’ seems like denial to me, and it won’t help.
MacLeod (@macleod)
13th July 2023, 7:51
Perez should look into the tyre warmup as that is the weak link for Red Bull even Max has problems with it for example Silverstone Max lose the lead position because of wheel spinning and Max said the rears weren’t in the right window. The whole first lap you see Max has real problem to put power on the track and when the temperatures are right he went over Lando..
If you look Perez quali when he botch it it’s cold or wet …. Perez late breaking isn’t helping him to get the tyres in the right window He must break early then he can swap back to late (like the race where he comes back again)
MichaelN
12th July 2023, 17:37
Except Hamilton didn’t do that to Rosberg.
In fact, Hamilton’s performance drove Rosberg to push himself to and beyond what he thought were his limits. It’s actually a great story of how Rosberg didn’t accept defeat and went all the way down the rabbit hole in his perhaps somewhat foolhardy attempt to match Hamilton.
He may not have cared to commit like that again after winning the title in 2016, and the ability to do so is indeed something that makes guys like Schumacher, who did it for over a decade in mostly contested title fights, special. But regardless, it worked out well for Rosberg and he got what he wanted. Let’s also not forget the 2014 title wasn’t decided until the last race either!
Pérez for all his talking has never been a threat to Verstappen. He’s not a Rosberg in that sense, not even close.
Edvaldo
12th July 2023, 12:22
Yeah, but i don’t see how it isn’t his fault that he didn’t make into Q3 since Miami.
He has the speed to do it in just one hand, but fails to put it all together every time. Track limits, bad timing, crashes….
Red Bull obviously prioritize Verstappen, but this current Perez situation is 100% on him.
Jere (@jerejj)
12th July 2023, 12:49
S – Don’t forget 2001, ’02, ’11, ’13, & ’19, among others, albeit last season was more akin to ’17 & ’18, with two drivers initially battling for the championship before the other one started to lose out further into the season.
Jere (@jerejj)
12th July 2023, 12:50
2014 (& ’15 for the most part) also in the same group as ’16, ’88, etc.
Simon
12th July 2023, 15:15
Ah yes, the usual retractions 🤫
S
12th July 2023, 14:45
Yeah, I wasn’t only looking at results – I just randomly picked a few years where there was no apparent preference within the team (’88, 16′) and compared with some of the most extreme examples of team preference (the others).
I was considering how the team develops throughout the season – Red Bull have chosen Verstappen over all of his team-mates since Ricciardo was there (including while he was there). The car is tailored to his style at the expense of anyone else who drives it, and this pattern repeats consistently every year.
Not saying it doesn’t work for them in their pursuit for WDC points and race wins, because it obviously does – but it’s an approach that’s typically not doing them too many favours with the WCC. They need Verstappen to be twice as successful by giving him this much preference, as the second car inevitably suffers greatly as a result simply due to its unsuitability for the person driving it.
It’s arguable that if the car had stayed exactly as it was in the first 4 or 5 races that this season could have been contested between team-mates – but Red Bull don’t want that. They’re still having nightmares over Baku 2018 and Turkey 2010.
A M (@amam)
12th July 2023, 22:19
2022 was nothing like 2017 and 2018. In 2017 and 2018, Ferrari and Merc fought for about three quarters of the season. The cars were more closely matched too. In 2022, it was all over by France with Max going into the summer break with a near 100 point lead and the RB was CLEARLY an best car by far. 2022 was more like 2019.
Todfod (@todfod)
12th July 2023, 8:55
I don’t see why people here are giving so much flak to Perez. He’s always been a midfield driver, and now he’s just putting that Red Bull in midfield places. He’s just doing what he’s done his entire career.
Zann (@zann)
12th July 2023, 9:37
Well earlier in the year he was putting himself up for WDC, so it’s his own standard. And generally even midfield drivers look good in Newey’s cars.
paulguitar (@paulguitar)
12th July 2023, 11:48
Perez is a journeyman driver having a terrible run of results. He’ll be getting his P45 soon, surely?
WesselV1
12th July 2023, 9:02
Verstappen won for the 5th time in a row starting from pole. Ascari managed this feat too, Schumacher is the only driver who won 6 races from pole in a row.
mog
12th July 2023, 11:08
To be fair, his tyres were cold and the conditions were changing, with track evolution being very steep. So not entirely his fault.
I do hope he gets his mojo back though, whilst not a top tier driver I have always rated him highly.
MacLeod (@macleod)
13th July 2023, 7:54
But it’s Perez fault (except waiting in the pitlane) by not proper heat up his tyres losing grip and lose it on track limits because his tyres aren’t in the right window.
Sonny Crockett (@sonnycrockett)
12th July 2023, 11:13
It suggests to me that whilst the Red Bull is the most consistently dominant car this season, it isn’t necessarily dominant at every track. Verstappen is the key differentiator, giving them an extra 10% in each race, meaning that they always look to be the quickest.
I’m not the biggest fan of Max the person, but Max the driver is an unbelievable talent and is currently locked into a mental state that makes him feel unbeatable, even when the car, as proven by Perez, clearly is.
If Verstappen was to have a few consecutive DNFs, we might see a less confident, more beatable driver. Until that happens, I can see Robo-Max demolishing the rest of the field, and almost every F1 record along the way.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
12th July 2023, 19:31
Verstappen wouldn’t have won all races without a dominant car, someone would’ve taken some.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
12th July 2023, 19:32
See 2021, when a car is up there, he only wins half the races.
A M (@amam)
12th July 2023, 22:21
The car has won every single race and every single pole. It’s dominant. It’s up there with one of the most dominant cars ever built
melanos
14th July 2023, 1:54
Certainly it doesn’t follow.
Let’s imagine all cars are exactly equal, but there’s a very good driver who manages a grand chelem every race while the rest of the drivers are tools.
It does not make the car dominant. No number of wins and poles makes a car dominant by itself when the drivers are unequal. Which they always are, of course.
ferrox glideh (@ferrox-glideh)
13th July 2023, 1:23
The way that Redbull designed their car around Verstappens style over the last several years is truly impressive. It is obviously a clever approach, but is abnormally hard on the second driver.
Mooa42
13th July 2023, 6:26
@ferrox-glideh Wouldn’t this be the approach at every team? I always felt at McLaren they developed, (to their detriment) based on Lando’s feedback, and because he had never driven anything else then the team didn’t have the depth of input it needed? I do wonder how much of the change, that is now happening, comes from feedback from Dan?
If every team turns up to the grid with 2 equal drivers and 2 equal cars but one of the garages extracts better lap times, isn’t it likely that the team would concentrate more of their development on the driver/garage that consistently extracts the best lap times?
MacLeod (@macleod)
13th July 2023, 8:04
@ferrox-glideh – The car isn’t designed for Max but for maximum speed and grip if you listen to Adrian he chanced the suspension of last year into this year. This change makes the Red Bull front tyres HARD to heat up creating oversteer (which Max hates) So if the tyres isn’t in the right windows the car steers over that is why Max tries hard to get the fronts in the right window (problem is that his rear tyres are a bit too hot which you saw as he couldn’t get the power through the rears and wheelspin)
Now Perz with his late breaking compaired with Max early breaking he gets his tyres not in the right window if you see Perez good performance where were they all in Warm countries with plenti of warm tracks.
So in Hungary i expect Perez sudenly perform much beter and you and me will know it’s the tyres because it’s bloody hot there…
Alefosi
12th July 2023, 11:55
All the chit chat… who’s still 2nd in the Championship? Checo! #sp5 We know the team is focused on Max and rightly so.
Jackal
12th July 2023, 12:27
His performances are embarrassing. More like a rookie, than a 13 year veteran. There are no excuses for his miscues (though Sergio is quick to offer them to whomever will listen), it’s a carbon copy of his time at McLaren.
Bullfrog (@bullfrog)
12th July 2023, 12:38
First F1 grid with 22 cars since 2014!
Showbiz cars at the back to go with the one with the lights on in front.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
12th July 2023, 19:35
Hopefully that happens for real in a while.
Jogo
12th July 2023, 17:13
Seems like people are more concerned about Perez than Red Bull themselves. Constant search of drama while everything works quite well. First you overhype Perez and instigate him to do a Rosberg, now you want Ricciardo back, so maybe he can? Is that really what Red Bull need?
Anyway I see only one reason why Red Bull can take Perez out. It’s to bring their two biggest legends together and I don’t mean Ricciardo.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
12th July 2023, 19:36
Then I don’t understand which legend it is.
Jogo
12th July 2023, 21:30
Of course you do. Not that I expect that to happen but I think both Red Bull and Vettel can do this sentimental comeback unexpectedly real. I believe Verstappen and Vettel can co-exist together. If slower Vettel has no problem to admit Max just has something Seb can’t do, he already said that in the past.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/L-sogzxjOTM
If Vettel somehow wins with Max, let’s think about it, Seb is probably the only one person in the world (because of his Red Bull heritage) Max is ready to lose with without feeling really defeated. Lauda-Prost situation.
ferrox glideh (@ferrox-glideh)
13th July 2023, 1:42
In my humble opinion, the probability of Vettel doing a comeback as 2nd fiddle to MV is exactly zero. Seb did what he wanted to do in Formula 1 as far as championships, yet maybe (probably) stayed in the game a bit too long. He is certainly happier now than he has been in years. I hope he has a second career somewhere else where he can apply his passion, or the wherewithal to just do whatever he wants to do. I trust that he will be treated a dignified elder sportsman in the future, as Schumacher should have been.
Coventry Climax
12th July 2023, 17:39
So if Ricciardo does a stellar job at Alpha Tauri, what does it tell us? That the car suits him? He did lousy at McLaren, so it’s not as if he’s a great driver.
Then Tsunoda has no reference like Ricciardo does. All he ever raced is the Alpha Tauri. Makes it hard for him to get the car developed to his liking, maybe?
Maybe the Williams suited de Vries quite well, allowing him to show his potential when in a car to his liking?
Now what if Ricciardo does a lousy job at Alpha Tauri? What does that tell? That the car is lousy? That Ricciardo is lousy? Or that the car just doesn’t suit him, like the Mclaren? That Tsunoda is OK?
Ofcourse RedBull have all the data, but it’s still quite misty as far as I’m concerned, and I’m not sure I get the point of all this, even is it is about putting pressure on Perez or evaluating Ricciardo for that seat.
Nick T.
13th July 2023, 13:03
He did well at every other team. Don’t think you can say he’s not a great driver because of one disaster season (2021 was not a disaster season – just well below the expectation he would not only beat Lando, but crush him). Unless you were throwing that out there in the same quizzical way you were throwing out the other hypothetical conclusions.
The difference for Tsunoda is, unlike Daniel, he’s never shown the potential to be something special. So, does he automatically deserve the chance to drive something that suits him?
Patrick (@anunaki)
12th July 2023, 17:57
I said it yesterday when the DEV / RIC swap came up: Perez is doing a worse job than de Vries.
For what I understand of it, he has trouble dealing with some of the RB19’s characteristics but when your teammate dominates the field every GP you look just foolish.
Edvaldo
12th July 2023, 19:21
I don’t think Perez has trouble with this car as much as he had with the previous ones.
He just makes way too many small mistakes and is very inconsistent.
Austria for example, the pace was there all day but the dude had 3 laps deleted. That’s straight up dumb stuff.
His engineer begged him to keep it within the lines, he goes out there and makes the same mistake again.
There’s just no excuse for that.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
12th July 2023, 19:40
Yes, makes the point across very clearly, perez can be like the one we saw early season, but atm he’s making mistakes when it matters\being slow in quali, then in the race he’s often ok.
DaveW (@dmw)
12th July 2023, 23:17
I think Albon has noted that Max likes his car so “pointy” it’s almost out of control. And the car is built to suit that set up.
But I don’t think I that’s the problem. I think Pérez problem is just that he’s not getting the set up tires etc prepped he’s not nailing his banker laps he’s not getting the details right so when it’s time to get the time he’s ready and the situation is not desperately fraught. So when his one last shot comes up it’s traffic/rain/brakes/timing whatever and there is no time to remedy it. There is no sign that Perez just doesn’t have the speed.
MacLeod (@macleod)
13th July 2023, 8:06
@dmw correct it’s the temperature so he will do in Hungary suddenly much beter ….
Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
12th July 2023, 19:20
It just comes across like Red Bull treat their second drivers with contempt and then wonder why their confidence falls, which is a vicious cycle.
Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
12th July 2023, 19:22
And I stand by this. It’s textbook https://www.racefans.net/?p=502550
Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
12th July 2023, 19:25
Didn’t link to my comment but I called it!
ferrox glideh (@ferrox-glideh)
13th July 2023, 1:45
I think Redbull’s method is to design a car around their best driver and then let the others adapt or fail. The team learns, in either case. It is a harsh approach, but obviously a successful one.
NewVerstappenFan (@jureo)
12th July 2023, 21:28
How can Perez be so far from pole.
I refuse to believe it is just a simple driver issue?
Anyone has a good theory why his form totaly bombed after initial races?
SadF1fan
12th July 2023, 23:56
Because he has always been an erratic driver. Too wild and not enough skill.
That can work for a bit in lower classes, and gives you some performance on a blue monday.
But as is the entire career of Perez, there is no consistency, apart from consistently underperforming.
ferrox glideh (@ferrox-glideh)
13th July 2023, 1:58
Never underestimate the power of tiny details to curtail a technical pursuit.
Maybe a minor sickness?
Maybe a bit of bad press?
Maybe a family issue?
Maybe a recurring bad dream?
Bad mojo? Random juju?
We may never know, but Perez is not the first to suffer such a reversal of fortune.
Illusive (@illusive)
13th July 2023, 8:34
@jureo
A) RedBull isn’t good with warming up its tyres quickly which we have seen it but Max somehow manages it well. Perez driving style might further be a detriment of this issue although once the tyres are fired up his pace is there as we saw in Austria. He is a better racer than qualifier.
B) Miami literally demolished Perez’s psyche after being called a championship rival to Max which put pressure on him to push even harder and then mistakes begins to creep up, he tries different things but fails. Going up against Max isnt easy we have seen it in the past. Max is brutally consistent, Perez cant copy that.
C) Other teams have crept closer to RedBull and are really close to each other, the car isnt as dominant in one lap pace as in race. So this isnt 2020 where Bottas can be 1.5 seconds off pole and yet be fourth (Styrian GP). So closer grid also a factor.
paulgilb (@paulgilb)
12th July 2023, 22:23
Magnussen has not reached Q2 in any of his last 5 Silverstone visits.
First time Leclerc has finished lower than 4th at Silverstone with Ferrari.
Thanks to the official F1 site for these.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
12th July 2023, 23:56
Seriously depressing stats when you consider that we are only half-way through the season. Perez is going to be replaced by Ricciardo if he does well at Alpha Tauri – there’s no way they can keep a driver that goes out in Q3 as consistently as Max wins races. Someone else will take his seat and their career will be over before they touch the steering wheel.
The best of the rest are 3 (now 4 if McLaren’s pace is genuine) teams and that changes on a race-by-race basis.
I have an opinion
14th July 2023, 0:10
Max missed out on another Grand Chelem as Norris led the first several laps. He did, however, get the Hat-Trick of pole, win and fastest lap. This was his third Hat-Trick this year and his eighth in total, tying him with Vettel and Prost.
Mayrton
15th July 2023, 7:54
Perez should not be in F1 (and over 30% of the current drivers too by the way, but that is for another discussion). He only is because RB panicked when Ricciardo left. It’s a very clear and simple situation.