Fernando Alonso has fallen two places in the finishing positions for the Australian Grand Prix after the stewards penalised him for his driving prior to George Russell’s crash.
The stewards ruled Alonso slowed significantly early for turn six in a manner they considered “potentially dangerous”. Russell, who was following him at the time, closed suddenly on Alonso and crashed, though the pair did not make contact.Alonso told the stewards he altered his approach to turn six in an attempt to improve his exit from it. They determined he backed off 100 metres earlier than usual for the corner and touched the brakes twice.
While accepting Alonso had the right to attempt a different approach to the corner while under pressure from Russell, the stewards ruled he reduced his speed by so much put brought him in breach of rules which forbid driving “unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous.”
The Aston Martin driver criticised the decision, saying other drivers would have done the same as him.
“I wanted to maximise my exit speed from turn six to defend against him,” he said. “That’s what any racing driver would do, and I didn’t feel it was dangerous.
“It’s disappointing to get a penalty from the stewards for what was hard but fair racing. Still, I’m glad that George is okay. It was not nice to see his car in the middle of the track.”
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Stewards’ explanation for Alonso’s penalty
The stewards heard from the driver of car 63 (George Russell), the driver of car 14 (Fernando Alonso), team representatives and reviewed positioning/marshalling system data, video, telemetry, team radio, in-car video evidence and telemetry supplied by both teams.
Car 63 crashed at the exit to turn six on lap 57. The stewards have extensively reviewed the situation that occurred prior to the crash.
Car 63 (George Russell) was following Car 14 (Fernando Alonso) approximately 0.5 seconds behind as the cars approached turn six. Alonso explained to the stewards that he intended to approach turn six differently, lifting earlier, and with less speed into the corner, to get a better exit. Russell explained to the stewards that from his perspective, Alonso’s manoeuvre was erratic, took him by surprise and caused him to close distance unusually fast, and with the resulting lower downforce at the apex of the corner, he lost control and crashed at the exit of the corner. There was no contact
between the cars.Telemetry shows that Alonso lifted slightly more than 100m earlier than he ever had going into that corner during the race. He also braked very slightly at a point that he did not usually brake (although the amount of brake was so slight that it was not the main reason for his car slowing) and he downshifted at a point he never usually downshifted. He then upshifted again, and accelerated to the corner before lifting again to make the corner. Alonso explained that while his plan was to slow earlier, he got it slightly wrong and had to take extra steps to get back up to speed. Nonetheless,
this manoeuvre created a considerable and unusual closing speed between the cars.
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In considering the matter the stewards focused solely on the wording of the regulation which states “At no time may a car be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person.” (Art 33.4)
Specifically, in this case, the stewards have not considered the consequences of the crash. Further, the stewards considered that they do not have sufficient information to determine whether Alonso’s manoeuvre was intended to cause Russell problems, or whether as he stated to the stewards that he simply was trying to get a better exit.
Should Alonso have the right to try a different approach to the corner? – yes.
Should Alonso be responsible for dirty air, that ultimately caused the incident? – no.
However, did he choose to do something, with whatever intent, that was extraordinary, i.e. lifting, braking, downshifting and all the other elements of the manoeuvre over 100m earlier than previously, and much greater than was needed to simply slow earlier for the corner? – yes by his own account of the incident he did, and in the opinion of the stewards by doing these things, he drove in a manner that was at very least “potentially dangerous” given the very high speed nature of that point of the
track.This season, the FIA Formula 1 penalty guidelines, including for this breach have been reset and increased to a baseline of a 10s penalty. In addition, when there is some aggravating circumstance, we consider a drive-through penalty. In this case we consider that Alonso affirmatively choosing to perform an unusual manoeuvre at this point to be an aggravating circumstance, as opposed to a simple mistake. The stewards therefore order a drive through penalty, which will be converted to 20 seconds added to car 14’s elapsed time, along with three penalty points.
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2024 Australian Grand Prix
- Alonso calls Australian GP penalty a ‘one-off I’ve had too many of’
- Red Bull saw warning sign of Australian GP brake problem on Saturday – Verstappen
- Failing to punish Alonso would have “opened a can of worms” – Russell
- Leclerc sure “many team principals” are pursuing Sainz for 2025 seat
- “Don’t put me under pressure” – The best unheard team radio from Melbourne
Luke S (@joeypropane)
24th March 2024, 9:09
Wait, what?
A penalty for “potentially” dangerous driving?
Sure any time a driver gets in an F1 car it’s “potentially” dangerous?
Oople
24th March 2024, 9:10
Nuance is lost on you, isn’t it?
Roman
24th March 2024, 17:41
Not at all.
Ajaxn
24th March 2024, 9:51
He pulled the same ‘brake check’ stunt on Hamilton in the last race and was given the benefit of doubt.
This time given the accident, the stewards are making it very clear erratic driving like that will not be ignored.
It’s seems obvious he wanted to force Russell on to his brakes as he accelerated away just before the approaching DRS zone.
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 10:25
Did you even read the stewards assessment? They specifically say Alonso did NOT brake check Russell. So, yeah, there goes your brake check.
Robert (@rob8k)
24th March 2024, 12:02
Can you quote where the stewards state this?
Patrick (@paeschli)
24th March 2024, 12:45
Braking 100 meters early is not brake checking?
J3d89
24th March 2024, 12:45
So you’re saying that Baku with Vettel was indeed a brake check….
Dale
24th March 2024, 19:53
Yawn. you’re nothing but a triggered HammiFan
Kringle
25th March 2024, 0:32
You can do better than that Dale, this isn’t Facebook.
Dex
24th March 2024, 11:15
I’m a not a native English speaker (and I assume that you are), but still this looks as if there were a language barrier involved. This is a standard phrasing, nothing more.
pcxmac (@pcxmac)
24th March 2024, 13:55
Alonso goes slower to get a better run out of the chicane to cover russell’s potential deployment.
And Russell breaks himself just like Singapore by cutting the margins too thin and expecting othet drivers to bend over for him.
the mistake is Russell’s entitlement. but the stewards will keep protecting him like the protect Max, because hes important to Mercedes financial bottom line.
sad thing is mercedes have no clue and probably got rid of the wrong engineers in order to be politically correct or out of hubris.
Lee1
24th March 2024, 14:33
I have a tin foil hat you can borrow if you like?
pcxmac (@pcxmac)
24th March 2024, 15:33
wait till you take your head out of the oven please, i wouldn’t want you to get burned.
Oople
24th March 2024, 15:33
@pcxmac
Such mad hyperbole
MikeT
24th March 2024, 15:47
Well in Alonso’s defense
This isn’t Russell’s first rodeo when it comes to crashing out when totally unnecessary. It was a bonehead move.
It was not a brake test by Alonso. Yes, he slowed the car down but this is a tacing tactic used forever including Senna himself. At the race last year in Brazil,
To penalize him a couple of places is one thing, but the penalty points I were ridiculou.
Johnny Herbert happens to be one of the stewards. He is a known Alonso hater.
And lastly, Toto Wolff is not exactly the most sedate person in the world, and he didn’t complain about the move.
AlexS
24th March 2024, 18:07
A complete farce. Can stewards be that incompetent or this was an hit job?
Oople
24th March 2024, 9:10
In my opinion, a very fair assessment of the situation from the FIA, and all things considered, from a pretty suspect set of events that occurred in that short space of time.
Say what you will about George’s other incidents, but given how unexpected Alonso’s dual braking and awkward downshifting were, you can’t in unbiased attitude bemoan George’s reaction to this incident.
EffWunFan (@cairnsfella)
24th March 2024, 9:27
I have to agree given the apparent findings. Yes, George can be his own worst enemy in these situations, but (contrary to the first posters comments) F1 is dangerous enough without performing unexpected maneuvers such as this, especially at that point in the circuit.
I seriously doubt Fernando would have graciously accepted a driver doing that in front of him, even if he hadn’t binned it as a result. And frankly his comments (detailed elsewhere) suggesting that he is knowingly driving differently but would not be looking out for cars behind, are pretty damning on their own.
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 9:34
George didn’t even complain. If it was some egregious brake check he would have been screaming bloody murder on the radio. Or at least I never heard it on my TV.
anon
24th March 2024, 9:55
Nick T., that seems like an extremely tenuous reason, especially given that, with his car beached at an unusual angle and in a vulnerable position, Russell’s main priority at that point was, perhaps predictably, getting out of the car and somewhere safe as soon as possible.
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 10:39
It wasn’t my only reason. The stewards themselves said he never braked hard. Only approached the corner slower than normal. The most standard defensive driving in the book. But my tenuous reason is pretty significant. Neither during or after the race did George ever say “he brake checked me” or did something dirty. If doesn’t even occur to a driver famous for pointing out illegal driving to think there was something unfair going on, I find it incredibly odd that the stewards took it upon themselves to penalize Alonso. But someone below says Herbert famously hates Alonso. So, maybe not surprising then.
Mr B
24th March 2024, 12:09
Russell didn’t need to say anything, he already knew it was going to the stewards. In his mind he knew something was different on that lap and that the data would confirm it.
I would imagine he was somewhat more forceful in his opinion in front of the stewards.
Ultimately he was diplomatic when interviewed before going to the stewards. Not a bad way to be.
I agree that it wasn’t an outright slam dunk brake test of the most viscous variety. Lifting 100m earlier and using a downshift for some extra retardation can’t be underestimated though and are the antics of a crafty old soul like Alonso. If Russell had simply run wide and come back on the circuit then I think he would have got away with it. Unfortunately this circuit doesn’t quite allow for that.
Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
25th March 2024, 8:38
He did effectively complain afterwards when asked to explain his view to the stewards and said that Alonso was driving eratically.
He may have only breaked slightly, but the fact that he down shifted is what also helped him slow down that bit more and that is the part you just don’t seem to be quoting.
Lee1
24th March 2024, 14:43
I have seen Alonso do this many times over the last year or so. When pressured from behind he tends to try to slow down the car behind at certain parts of the track in order to put them offline or out of sync in terms of braking and acceleration etc. It is a good way to keep a car behind, but obviously can be pretty dangerous when cars are going so fast.
G
24th March 2024, 16:40
We saw it with Perez in AD ’21 and with Hamilton also at AD ’16 where they deliberately slowed in corners to disrupt the car behind. Not sure why there were no penalties then but there is in this instance?
faulty (@faulty)
25th March 2024, 0:12
Why hasn’t anybody mentioned the very similar incident with DC during the 2003 European GP, on the approach to the Nurburgring chicane?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4GJMqL0Tgw
Ben
24th March 2024, 9:12
Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Glad he got punished for this. Not the first time he’s played idiotic games.
Armchair Expert (@armchairexpert)
24th March 2024, 9:14
The steward – Johnny Herbert, the “victim” – Russell in a Mercedes, the “perpetrator” – Alonso. It’s so blatant it’s funny.
Osnola
24th March 2024, 13:33
Agreed. And when things developed i was waiting for the traditional russell error.
When it came it was inevitable.
AlanD
24th March 2024, 14:38
Whenever there is a contentious decision, people point to the ex-driver steward as if he is the decision maker. He isn’t. The ex-driver steward is one of five stewards who together make a decision. The reason each race includes an ex-driver is to give driver perspectives into incidents. For all you know, Herbert might have been arguing that Alonso was perfectly entitled to slow down and the other four over-ruled him.
Darrell
24th March 2024, 15:28
Herbert hates Alonso, he should have never been involved.
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
24th March 2024, 9:18
I totally disagree with this. This is a can of worms that we’ll never close. Drivers are now responsible for their cars and drivers behind. This is an extreme example but surely on a tarmac run off you just have to evidence a different entry speed from the last lap and drive off the road yourself to get the driver ahead a 20s penalty? We had 2 drivers struggle with broken brakes in this race, had someone went off behind them should there be a penalty?
For me, the main issue is that since we’ve changed the circuit in 2022, to make it much lower down force with a faster profile in that turn, this corner has been excessively dangerous. No-one supports tarmac run offs less than I do, but like Eau Rouge, if you get a swapper on there is nowhere to go, the barrier is too close and you end up broadside. This happened last year with Albon too. It’s a blind turn at huge speed with a car potentially stranded on the apex.
For me, Alonso clearly had an issue of sorts – Russell gained 15s in 10 laps due to a battery problem on the Aston. So Russell should have known that going into the best overtaking section Alonso would moderate his apex speed. And that’s his right. Russell ends up off line, on the marbles and cross the gravel. It’s the dip in the gravel that sends him into a barrier that is too close. For me, it’s a driving error compounded by a poorly designed corner.
But I think this is a case of the stewards trying to fix one issue and causing others. This will be totally unenforceable and drivers will call for it all the time. Last time in Saudi why couldn’t Yuki drive off the road and blame Magnussen for being excessively slow? It’s nonsense.
I Dal Re
24th March 2024, 13:15
Hear Hear!!!
Lee1
24th March 2024, 14:47
Drivers have always been responsible to drive in a way that is not dangerous to other drivers. It is not new.
There are rules for weaving in braking zones for this very reason and there are rules to prevent what Alonso did today as it is incredibly dangerous.
It is not going to ruin F1, all drivers have to do is not do unexpected moves when near other cars… I mean I have no idea what you think will happen? Other drivers have been punished for similar things in the past, the rules have not changed regarding this recently.
Alonso would have been the first one to complain if it had been the other way around and rightly so.
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
24th March 2024, 16:12
Define ‘unexpected’.
Unexpected as in Verstappen drove 2 laps with his brakes on fire? Unexpected as in Leclerc driving 10 laps where he didn’t hit every apex on a single one on Bahrain?
Part of motor racing is accepting that the driver ahead won’t do something entirely predictable. Otherwise it’s scalextrix. How can anyone judge when another competitor would have an issue or make an error? Alonso is being punished for coasting through a corner and the distance between when Alonso comes out of the power and Russell crashes is 180m. Alonso can’t second guess how close the aero will impact Russell.
What I think will happen is that drivers will simply game the system. If a driver has a brake issue, then the trailing driver will go super deep in behind him and run wide. That’s the a 20s penalty. It’s rife for abuse.
I can’t think of another 20s or drive through penalty in the last decade. Is this the most obvious candidate? Had there been tarmac run off and Russell made the corner would you be as concerned? We can’t make up a rule for one corner.
Renee (@renee)
24th March 2024, 20:12
Alonso slowed down so significantly in a tight highspeed section that Russell almost rearended him. If you take a look at Russell’s on board you can see that Alonso braked from a high speed in an unexpected location. Russell then had to lock up to avoid rear ending him. His car was wobbling around having to brake unexpectedly hard in a highspeed curve.
If you wonder how F1 drivers can race so closely at the speeds they do, without any brake lights, it’s because there are accepted norms and maneuvers they all stick to. Like how a defending car is allowed to move in braking zones, how much room you have to leave for a car alongside you and as F1 cars are all of the same category, they also brake more or less in the same spots. If you change your braking point in a highspeed section so significantly that it is basically twice as early as the previous laps at the same location, I’d call that pretty dangerous for the car following you closely. Close, highspeed racing, is all about trusting the other car. And if the other car breaks that trust, this is what happens.
Lee Fear
25th March 2024, 11:24
We see quite often when something goes wrong with a car in front then it can collect the car behind… That is vastly different from driving erratically. It would not be expected for a car to slow down 100m before the normal breaking zone of a reasonably fast corner. It would then not be expected that the car in front changes down gears just as it is going through the fast corner. That is not how cars normally go through that section of track and it is dangerous for that reason.
F1 has rules that govern acceptable driving standards for good reason.
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
25th March 2024, 14:22
There are too many factors when considering expectation. We trust that the best drivers in the world can gauge the limit but there’s no rule that says “you must brake here”.
This is about the phase of the corner. If you blend out of the throttle on entry that is acceptable and has been common practice for decades. It unsettles the car behind and makes them second guess where to accelerate. It’s a defining tactic of defensive driving. Had Alonso commited to the apex in the entry phase then slammed the brakes at the apex of course it’s a penalty. That’s not what happens, the downshift is on approach. Russell sees this and misjudges the aero wash.
There is a fundamental lack of understanding of the issue – slow entry is at a driver’s volition, a lower mid corner speed is a natural consequence. But as we can’t tell a driver how to approach a corner, we can’t apply a penalty for “loss of down force of the car behind”. The stewards concede all of this in their report.
Heels
24th March 2024, 18:07
Well said.
Lyndamarks
24th March 2024, 9:20
Another absurd penalty in the over regulated show that used to be a sport.
Alonso braked early….. So what? It wasn’t a sudden brake as we have seen with DRS detection point games in recent years.
Heck at really narrow places like Monaco it used to be common for drivers to ease off slightly in the straghts. Nigel Mansell is on record as saying that was a tactic Senna used to keep him behind in 1992 and that as far as he was concerned it was just a part of racing.
But today you can’t do anything because it’s all about theshow, over regulation and absurd anti-racing nonsensical penalties.
GongTong (@gongtong)
24th March 2024, 9:27
“Telemetry shows that Alonso lifted slightly more than 100m earlier than he ever had going into that corner during the race”.
That’s erratic. It was done deliberately in an attempt to defend. It caused a crash. No different to any other illegal defence it should be penalised and it was.
Lyndamarks
24th March 2024, 9:36
@gongtong Backing off early going into a corner aiming to get a better exit is a perfectly normal part of racing and has been since the start.
It’s something they all do both to try and attack as well as defend.
Are theFIA going to start telling drivers when they can back off for a corner now.
It’s up there as one of the most ridiculous decisions and penalties I’ve ever seen in the 40+ years I’ve been following what used to be a sport.
TBH slamming on the brakes playing games at DRS detection zones is far more dangerous than simply lifting off a bit earlier going into a corner which as i say has been a standard part of the racing game for decades.
Just pathetic decision but then Johnny Herbert was one of the stewards and he is so full of pathetic decisions Sky fired him. And let’s not forget that it was Herbert who on Sky a few years ago was insisting that Alonso should retire as he no longer had the speed.
Clearly shows the mindset this silly penalty came from.
Tom
24th March 2024, 9:40
He didn’t just back off early, please watch the footage and look at telemetry.
Alonso applied the brakes 100m before the corner, at a part of the track no driver brakes at. He then goes back onto the power for a second or two before braking for the corner as he normally would.
I agree we don’t need the FIA punishing defensive driving, but this wasn’t that, this was Alonso playing dangerous games by driving erratically.
Roger Ayles (@roger-ayles)
24th March 2024, 9:51
But this was defensive driving and it’s a tactic that has been accepted for decades.
As was pointed out this sort of easing off the throttle or tapping the brakes in key places was a common tactic. Senna used it in that Monaco fight with mansell.
It would have been dangerous had Alonso slammed on the brakes (Like we have seen in DRS games) but he didn’t. He blended out the throttle and dabbed the brakes (The stewards say the brake application was so slight it wasn’t the main reason for him slowing).
That isn’t dangerous or erratic, It’s just racing.
greasemonkey
24th March 2024, 14:35
I co-sign roger-ayles that racers have done this since racing started. It is part of race craft up until it is too sharp and too sudden, at which point it is a brake check.
I’ve done it. I’ve had it done to me.
Russell (and any other racer), the same, hence no complaint.
Ajaxn
24th March 2024, 15:54
Alonso didn’t just break early, the dirty air from his car also compromised the downforce of the car behind coming into an high speed corner.
He did this seeking an advantage, he did this with an idea of how it would affect the other driver. Speed plus less downforce, less grip, equals accident.
Alonso is rightly praised for his experience and for being Wiley on track, but this stunt, and the stunt he pulled against Hamilton in the last race is bordering on dangerous. The stewards had every right to draw the line.
anon
24th March 2024, 9:50
Lyndamarks, when you say that “TBH slamming on the brakes playing games at DRS detection zones is far more dangerous” – the available telemetry data indicates that is exactly what Alonso did, which would mean Alonso was driving in a manner that you have described as dangerous.
Roger Ayles (@roger-ayles)
24th March 2024, 9:55
But it isn’t as the stewards decision says that the brake application was so slight that it wasn’t the primary cause of him slowing.
He didn’t slam the brakes on. He blended out the throttle early and dabbed the brakes very slightly (Slightly been the stewards wording).
That isn’t dangerous or erratic.
Heck they were lifting off a decelerating far earlier heading into corners a few years ago when lift and coast was a bigger deal.
Under this ruling they were all driving dangerously by slowing down too early for corners.
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 10:23
Your comment is patently false as the quote below shows and you have an irrational hatred for Alonso. Like Max fans vs Lewis fans level.
So, tell us again “that telemetry shows us that’s exactly what he did.” Did Alonso do something to you as a child?
Davethechicken
24th March 2024, 11:46
Roger, the aerodynamic drag of an F1 car is such that coming off throttle alone has more retardation than a road car with the brake pedal fully planted. When following with such small time gaps, as they do in F1 any unpredictable slowing is highly dangerous. Alonso did not only come off throttle but also applied the brake lightly. George was on full throttle at the point. This is a very dangerous thing to do.
I think the penalty is very justified. It is more disturbing to me the inconsistency of penalties for driving like this. Drivers have not been punished properly for this in the past. Max’s infamous drs brake in Saudi went without proper punishment, we can only speculate that this was to improve the show and end Mercs dominance rather than any fair approach to penalties overall.
Lee1
24th March 2024, 14:52
There is braking early and there is erratic behaviour. They are different things entirely. Drivers are always going to be on the lookout for other drivers slowing at slightly different times etc. What they do not expect is a car to slow down 100m before they normally do! That is not 100m before the corner, that is 100m before the normal braking zone…
Not only that but Alonso then shifted down going in to the corner (which is not normal at this corner) which would have slowed the car even more.
Alonso was doing this on purpose in order to make Russel brake unexpectedly or take an incorrect line to avoid contact. That would then put Russel in a compromised position on a part of the track that he was likely to overtake Alonso. Alonso knew exactly what he was doing. He does is quite often, thankfully not with the same consequences for the other driver….
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 9:40
So erratic that George didn’t even say anything? It was literally a non-issue. Look at the onboard. That’s the furthest thing I’ve seen from dangerous or erratic driving ever. That was just smart driving.
Also, if you’re going to give cars four DRS zones, the only defense that’s even possible is going slow into and on the apex of non-overtaking turns. Only in this new F1 would that even be looked let alone penalized.
Tom
24th March 2024, 9:47
Well so erratic that it caused a crash…
I don’t like George and don’t like Alonso so I have no bias on this. It’s for a p5 result which again I don’t care about. I say what I see in the data and videos. To me the FIA need to stamp this out quickly. Defensive driving isn’t slamming the brakes on, on the straight! Alonso took it too far got caught and got punished.
“Slow into and on the apex” isn’t the problem. Slamming on, on the straight 100m before you need to and then accelerating again is.
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 9:53
He clearly wasn’t “slamming on the brakes.” It seems like you have a bias for sticking to your argument. I’m not sure you’ve seen the video if you think he was slamming on his brakes. If this could even be labeled aggressive, Max should be out of the sport. Alonso is known as one of the fairest racers. Guy doesn’t have a single famous crash with a competitor.
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 9:56
BTW, does a crash require another car to be driving erratically? “Erratic enough that it caused” a crash. More realistic to say “George coming in too hot and losing downforce caused a crash.” Or is every single crash where a car wasn’t even really close to the rear in front of them erratic driving?
Tom
24th March 2024, 10:02
Nick. It’s not bias to stick to a viewpoint. You’ve said nothing other than YOUR opinion. I’ve stated facts. You’ve said nothing to change my mind. It’s that simple.
I’ve just watched again. On lap 57 Alonso was doing 280 before braking for the corner, basically at the corner itself. On lap 58 he brakes on the straight 100m before the corner and slows to 240 before blipping the accelerator to get back up to 248.
He’s going 232 into the corner when the lap before he was 280. If you don’t think that’s erratic or could be considered dangerous then it’s you who’s bias.
Nick T,
24th March 2024, 10:18
Opinion is telling me if I don’t see a replay and agree with your take away, that’s bias. My bias comment was tongue in cheek.
More importantly, there’s a major difference between coasting into a corner and “slamming” on the brakes. That’s a “fact.” There is no point when he slams on the brakes. We would see Russell go from far behind to nearly rear ending him. Instead, he lifts off so that George cannot get a clean run on him. That is clean defensive driving. Jack Crawford watched the video after the race and called it incredibly smart driving.
If you cannot even do that, why have four DRS zones? Might as well say that once a car is within 7 tenths, you have to pull off. There has never been a rule that you need to push 10/10ths in every lap. We’ve seen a million races where drivers go slowly in areas where you can’t pass in order to keep drivers from getting clean runs and/or managing their tires.
I guess it’s a case of if you want F1 to basically be a big time trial or you want actual racecraft.
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 10:19
I hope you can at least admit he wasn’t “slamming on the brakes.” Cause I can agree that he approached the corner slowly. But there was no sudden and aggressive braking.
Ajan
24th March 2024, 16:10
Of course George didn’t say anything about being brake checked, he was too busy processing the crash to speculate on the cause.
All Russell had was Alonso in his face, out of no where, and then him speeding off again. He wouldn’t have seen far enough ahead to know if this slow down legitimately to avoid something ahead, or an Alonso stunt.
George blamed his reactions without realising his car’s downforce would also have been affected. I’m pretty sure Alonso would have worked all this out, because that is the kind of driver he is…. Talk about brinkmanship.
What surprises me is why anyone would defend this practice, as if the sport wasn’t dangerous enough. What next, spilling oil on the track to take out the car behind you?
Yellow Baron
24th March 2024, 10:57
Also then 35kph slower. Would be interesting to see what his speed was at the end of the straight compared to previous lap
Mayrton
24th March 2024, 22:01
I agree. Nothing left of the supposed pinnacle of motorsport. Russell should be able to hold his own, especially at this level of motorsport. Very wrong penalty. Alonso is entirely entitled to sacrifice entry speed for exit speed. What a farce Formula 1 has become.
PeterG
24th March 2024, 9:22
Pathetic decision.
Screw F1!
Tom
24th March 2024, 9:28
The right decision. Having watched the telemetry for the last two laps and compared them there was zero need to brake at that part of the track. Why brake, go back on power and then brake as you normally would for the corner. He wanted to unsettle Russell and ensure he didn’t get an easy DRS overtake. This isn’t the first time he’s played these kind of DRS games. Good to see dangerous driving being punished.
Yellow Baron
24th March 2024, 10:58
In Abu Dhabi last year he literally went off track and nearly crashed into a brake marker trying the same games
Fede
24th March 2024, 11:05
Obviously there mas no need to slow down…sure..That way to reason is great! So you can’t defend like Senna…russell was to hot in pursuit and to angry of being unable to créate a Strategy to surpass Alonso (how many laps has he been unable to pass him recently) that he not to Close entering the curve. He should have know he would lose downforce and understered. It’s has error and he has Learned the lesos…Alonso set him up and he fell for it. Russells fault. And the judges are byased.
BasCB (@bascb)
24th March 2024, 11:30
Yeah, I am rather in favour of the stewards keeping out of dubious stuff, but Alonso has been trying to do these kind of things on and off for a long time and this time it COULD really have ended badly, showing exactly why the stewards (and the drivers, as they repeatedly say after discussions about moves between them) frown on such erratic moves in fast stretches of track.
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 9:29
What a joke.
And did we really need a VSC for Lewis’ car to be safely wheeled back 5 feet? F1 is egregiously sanitized.
SjaakFoo (@sjaakfoo)
24th March 2024, 9:36
Yes, we do not need to needlessly endanger a volunteer Marshall’s life for no good reason just because it makes you irrationally annoyed. One would think this would be especially apparent at tracks like these where such volunteers have already died while serving F1 in the past, but I guess not.
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 9:49
“Irrationally annoyed.” So, an ad hominem attack is one of your great points?
Do you understand what a firing line is? If this gap had been in the firing line a VSC would make more sense, but for where the car was no. And I wasn’t suggesting a green flag. A yellow let alone double yellow flag would have been fine. F1 has changed everything in terms of race direction since 2020 after Whiting died. Red flags for gravel. Safety cars for almost anything. It must be pure luck in your eyes that for 40+ years we survived with marshals recovering cars under green and yellow flags recovering cars. I don’t want to go back to green flag recoveries, but safety cars for Stroll in Jeddah last season and VSC for Hamilton shows how insanely far to the other end of the spectrum we’ve gone.
SjaakFoo (@sjaakfoo)
24th March 2024, 10:19
Rare incidents that can be prevented are still incidents that can be prevented, yes. No wonder Charlie Whiting created the VSC after they determined such a measure could’ve prevented a rare death in 2014.
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 10:27
The VSC as he used was great. So, don’t conflate me not liking this call for not liking VSC.
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 10:35
as he used it*
I think the last time a marshal was killed by being stuck by a car was nearly 50 years ago when Tom Pryce struck a marshal who ran on the track with a fire extinguisher.
We’ve also seen only a single driver injured over the last 50+ years due to hitting a car off track with Bianchi and it was under extreme conditions and under VSC, but he was going too fast for VSC.
If a car is in the firing line and it’s raining, that’s a no brainer for a VSC or SC. But out of the firing line on a clear, dry day with a car that could be pushed off in under 10 secs (they could wait for the end of the pack and have nearly a minute to clear away the car). That would be using common sense.
Yellow Baron
24th March 2024, 11:02
It was also introduced far to late unfortunately. Seeing the wec using a similar system well before and even a similar incident at the same track same corner 20 years prior.
I was watching an old race at Albert park when trulli crashed while being chased by Montoya and Schumacher. Double waved yellow but cars were going by full speed on the straight just as he was getting out
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
24th March 2024, 19:35
Nick, about bianchi, the VSC was introduced right after his episode, so there couldn’t be a VSC at that moment, there were yellows, prob double, and he was going too fast for those.
BasCB (@bascb)
24th March 2024, 11:32
Yeah, this is exactly what the VSC is for. With only relatively little interference into the race the stewards were able to get in front of the barriers and push Hamilton’s car behind them. Also good that Hamilton was able to park as close to this gap, he was clearly looking for one, to limit the impact on the race.
Ajaxn
24th March 2024, 9:56
How quickly we forget. Marshall’s have been killed clearing cars because the race continued at pace.
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 9:58
When was the last time that happened in F1? The 1980s? When cars could go 160mph in the pit lane.
Nikos (@exeviolthor)
24th March 2024, 10:51
There were a few near misses. Jules Bianchi’s crash could have resulted in the death of marshalls as well.
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 11:18
Again, vastly different conditions.
Nikos (@exeviolthor)
24th March 2024, 12:07
Yes, but it is not possible to create a rule for every particular scenario.
If I am not mistaken, the rule today is that if there are marshalls on track then it is a VSC. This may be too much in some cases, but when it comes to the safety of marshalls it is good that they have opted to err on the side of safety.
BasCB (@bascb)
24th March 2024, 11:35
Wasn’t there a Marshall hurt only decade ago in Montreal (that was in 2013 Nick T)?
ferrox glideh (@ferrox-glideh)
24th March 2024, 13:08
The marshall in Montreal was killed by the tractor moving a car from the track.
PlosslF1
24th March 2024, 12:40
Marshalls on live track= VSC…. no ifs, no buts, no coconuts
PlosslF1
24th March 2024, 14:26
Having a bit more time to think about, race control would be operating under what’s known as Dynamic Risk Assessment, so Ham stops they would then have to use this to assess the risk, this takes time, someone would then have to sign off on this as with all types of risk assessment you use the ACE (Ass Covering Exercise ) principle. So your there going where is it?, how far from the recovery position is it?, what is the visibility like leading up to stricken car?, fill in the numbers in risk assessment boxes add them up then OK, marshals can recover the stricken car… If then someone gets injured its all “Who signed off the risk assessment?”
You can see the problem and why its a straight VSC. Personally I think they should use a Code 60 and just have that sector/section go slow.
EffWunFan (@cairnsfella)
24th March 2024, 9:33
I have to say I am really surprised by some of the comments here. On the one hand, people want close racing and overtakes. On the other hand it seems that driver’s should accept that trying to achive the former can result is incidents such as that which transpired here.
We might as well remove rules such as those disallowing cars circulating in a dangerous condition, or moving more than once. And perhaps adding some blades to the wheel hubs will weed out the cry babies too.
Prajwal (@prajwal)
24th March 2024, 12:24
Exactly my thoughts. If stewards start dishing out such penalties, it will be the end of smart defensive driving.
Mayrton
24th March 2024, 22:06
So we are going racing but actually we are not. We regulate the sport into the ground. Maube a speed limit introduction is next?
Will Wood (@willwood)
24th March 2024, 9:36
How am I supposed to give Alonso an 8/10 rating now?
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
24th March 2024, 9:41
Hahaha, very good Willi! That’s cheered me up on a rather frustrating morning.
Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
24th March 2024, 9:44
Well, even without the penalty, he didn’t do better than hism teammate over rhe weekend. He gained 10 seconds under the safety car while pitting which got him ahead and was barely any faster than stroll and was just 11 seconds ahead before the incident. I think stroll should get a 7 and alonso a 6 for this weekend.
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 10:08
He had already gained enough time to pass him after the stop even without the VSC, which was worth 7 seconds according to Palmer and Lance was more than 7 seconds behind him after the pit stop. He got into clean air on his first stint with the mediums degrading and was putting in extremely fast laps. He was pulling away from George quickly. Then his car seemed to be working a lot less well after the first stop.
In quali Alonso was world’s faster than Stroll (look at Q2) and was obviously risking everything for a high grid slot, but his trip through the gravel put paid to that. So, Lance defaulted into P9 and was as usual, no where near Alonso. It’s why he nearly a pit stop behind him.
Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
24th March 2024, 20:23
You should also remember though that he gained positions during the stop that he saved time in. This meant that he wouldn’t be losing the time by having to overtake Stroll and some others later, which he will have had to do.
Stroll also had a better start and gains a position or two, which Alonso initially went backwards. However fast Alonso was in qualifying was irrelevent, he wasn’t fast enough when it counted and actually admitted that he had lost confidence in the car on his final attempt, so that is he himself admitting that he was struggling. Stating that Stroll qualified where he did and that Alonso was “nowhere near him” is nonsence based on what happened.
Stroll was dreadful last weekend, but his pace in the first race, and this race was more or less matching Alonso. And with Alonso’s mistake in qualifying, followed by his dangerous actions now, Stroll arguably has done the better job this weekend.
Crawliin-from-the-wreckage (@davedai)
24th March 2024, 10:06
Give him a 9 then take 1 off.
Then perhaps give Sergeant and Hamilton 3’s for failure to make an impact like their teammates.
mog
25th March 2024, 7:02
George certainly made an impact!
tielemst
24th March 2024, 12:23
Just do. People will complain every week anyway :-)
An Sionnach
24th March 2024, 17:44
That’s a tough one, Will. Perhaps pick any number from one to ten… and we will not be happy!
He did drive pretty well. I read the account of Alonso, Russell and the stewards and was surprised at the result. I’ve since watched replays of George’s onboard. The race director didn’t show enough of this as we were probably watching Piastri cruise around. It looks very different from the onboard. This is a place where you have to anticipate the turn before you see it open up. Alonso could have made a mistake and lifted too early for his different line into the bend as he rather sheepishly suggested in the interview. He looked a little like a schoolboy explaining himself. I’d expect that Fernando would be very aware of the danger behind him and would not just be looking ahead. He may have tried something and not quite gotten it right. Once you get your speed right to take the right-hander it’s a leap of faith and you want to carry the speed into the bend. George took responsibility for the crash. Maybe there was a touch of brake testing? That doesn’t save George’s blushes completely, though. Once he was committed to take that right-hand bend he was going to crash into Alonso or the wall. He reacted well to avoid contact, but perhaps he needs to be more wily when following other drivers. You can’t be brake testing people, but racing also needs to be allowed. My guess is that Alonso knows he’s operating in a grey area.
That’s a load of fluff. Considering the stewards didn’t conclude Alonso was brake testing and that it was just potentially dangerous driving regardless of intent, the penalty is too big. I don’t know how you deal with a wily driver who might deliberately operate in the shadowlands, but then I can’t say that this was the case and the stewards didn’t either after reviewing the evidence. Going back a number of years there was that time when a young Schumacher was absolutely furious at Senna for brake testing him and allowing him to pass, then getting a slipstream and re-passing him. He (a non-world champion) asked why would a three-time world champion do something like this – to scare other drivers into not attempting to follow him closely. In the end it was explained away as Senna having a technical problem. This kind of behaviour has perhaps never had a satisfying resolution, especially where the offending driver is smart.
The big issue here is that Johnny Herbert should not be a steward. Even if he was arguing for Fernando in this case, I don’t think it’s appropriate to have someone who was calling for a team boss to resign as a steward. He’s too high profile and clearly not impartial.
What to rate Alonso? On the driving, Alonso did very well. It’s supposed to be part of good driving to not attract penalties, though, and this can be frustrating if you don’t agree with a penalty. Ultimately, as a pro (and not a grump like us), the decision of the stewards has to be final. I wouldn’t have expected Alonso to get more than a ten second penalty. Magnussen got one for blatantly clumsy driving in Jeddah. I’d been watching the gap between Alonso and Russell while the race director was showing the McLarens and wondered if George was making a move when the gap was 0.5s. Once the cameras showed the wrecked car and the race ended I checked the gap back to Stroll to see was it over five seconds. That might have made more sense given the question marks and grey areas. Since such penalties have been reset to the ten second mark, I wouldn’t expect more than that. The aggravating circumstance that attracted the stop-go penalty is that Alonso deliberately chose to do something different instead of making a mistake. Is it not legitimate to try a slightly different line, perhaps fluff it a little and then adjust your speed? I feel they may have chosen the penalty to drop him back at least one place and that they were navigating the rules to this end rather than applying them correctly. The stewards’ statement is contradictory as they say they don’t have sufficient evidence to decide whether he was aiming to cause Russell trouble or get a better exit; that he should be allowed to try a different approach to a corner; that he should not be responsible for the dirty air behind him. Then they say he can’t do something extraordinary, which contradicts what they just said. Who exactly wrote this? It doesn’t make sense. All that said, why hasn’t Aston appealed the penalty? A ten-second penalty would give them sixth and seventh – two extra points.
End result? Alonso gets the penalty, is rated as having attracted the penalty and we don’t get Johnny Herbert as a steward again unless there is a period in which he is not making public statements attacking members of the paddock.
MichaelN
24th March 2024, 9:39
Sounds like a balanced view by the stewards, and given all their considerations one assumes the change in approach by Alonso was very significant, and at a high speed and narrow part of the track to boot. Seems fair to penalise that.
Yellow Baron
24th March 2024, 11:05
Braked 100m earlier and 35kph slower going into corner. I’d also be interested to see what his speed was at the end of he following straight compared to the previous lap, since he said that’s why he did it
Mariano (@mariano)
24th March 2024, 9:39
Johnny Herbert was one of the stewards and everybody knows that he hates Alonso so no surprise here.
On the other hand now drivers must be very consistent in the way they drive every lap if not it can be considered a potentially dangerous driving and might be penalized. Ridiculous.
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 10:04
I didn’t know Herbert was stewarding. Makes a lot more sense. If it was penalty worthy a) George would have actually complained / felt aggrieved, b) I don’t think so many people would be calling it a ridiculous penalty and c) one of the analysts in the studio or the tv commentators would have at least said “oh, that was questionable.” Sounds like Herbert and the stewards took it upon themselves to find something to penalize because they saw a dramatic looking crash.
Crawliin-from-the-wreckage (@davedai)
24th March 2024, 11:30
There was this
Roger Ayles (@roger-ayles)
24th March 2024, 9:44
I can’t swear but the word I’m thinking of includes Bull.
So many silly penalties the past few years. It’s just making a mockery of the sport and along with the equally silly gimmicks are the reason many long time fans are turning away from the joke that F1 has become.
Senproman
24th March 2024, 9:44
The hyperbole in these comments are astounding.
Mr Squiggle
24th March 2024, 9:49
You don’t need to lift off 100m earlier than normal to secure a better exit. That could be achieved at much shorter distances, eg 50 or 40 m.
I’m with the stewards on this one
Having said that, Russell’s spin was similar to hauger’s in the F2 race. Seems to have been self inflicted to some extent
Ajaxn
24th March 2024, 10:03
Under pressure, closing stages of a hard race and he puts it in the wall chasing an extra point…. Where have we seen that before. Russell needs to learn from this.
He should have been content to finish for the team, and bring home those points rather than pursue his personal quest of last lap glory. So fooolish.
Grapmg
24th March 2024, 9:56
Wow have te see the replay but looked to me that Russell wasn’t that close to deserve a penalty for early braking. Stewards have all the data so probably Alonso pushed the boundaries of defense but for me defending is part of F1
Roger Ayles (@roger-ayles)
24th March 2024, 9:58
Just a point I’d like to make.
If we are now saying that lifting off the throttle earlier than normal is ‘dangerous and erratic’ then shouldn’t they all be penalised for doing any amount of lift and coast?
And for those who clearly never read the stewards wording.
He never slammed on the brakes as the stewards own words say the brake application was so slight that it wasn’t the primary cause for the deceleration.
Aston Martin should appeal this ridiculous penalty!
Will Wood (@willwood)
24th March 2024, 10:21
Lifting and coasting rarely affects corner apex minimum speed all that much – only the speed of drivers at the entry of a corner before the braking phase.
The speed differential in that instance is relatively minor and predictable which allows anyone behind a better opportunity to react.
I think the examples of Hamilton backing off to hold up Rosberg in Abu Dhabi 2016 or Perez holding Hamilton up in Abu Dhabi 2021 are the perfect examples of how it can be done in a way that will keep the stewards happy. The slowing down took place in the mid corner phase with the car position being used to obstruct the car behind from getting on throttle in a way that gives them momentum and a chance to overtake out of the corner.
I’m sure Alonso was only trying to adopt the same kind of advanced defensive tactics as this, to prevent Russell getting a run on him down the DRS straight, but in this particular instance with this particular closing speed at this particular corner, it ended up being over the line. With the detailed explanation from the stewards, I can’t help but feel like this is the right call.
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 10:56
Not a good example IMO. Rosberg already knew Hamilton was going to do that every corner and was prepared to adjust his driving. If a driver has to already know you’re going to be approaching tight corners slowly for it be legal, then F1 is going to make DRS passes even more ridiculously lame, especially on a track with 4 DRS zones.
Let’s be honest, if this was an illegal or egregious move, George would have complained and all the commentators on TV wouldn’t have called it “smart driving” (Crawford) or basically said nothing at all. It’s simply under a microscope now because a British driver who really dislikes Alonso was stewarding and the incident effected one of his favorite drivers.
Oople
24th March 2024, 15:36
Your arguments are based on silly assumptions. Stop.
roadrunner (@roadrunner)
24th March 2024, 16:49
I have to side with @roger-ayles here. If Russell had lost it while taking avoiding action I would agree with the penalty. But Alonso cruised into the corner, Russell was far enough behind to have time to react and adjust his apex speed to compensate for the increased amount of dirty air but he didn’t do so appropriately.
That’s either because he realized to late what was going on or he wanted to get as close as possible and just over did it, so the crash was still on him.
I don’t like what Alonso did, but his contribution to the incident is to small to be worth a penalty and we have seen way more erratic decelerations ahead of Drs zones before.
EffWunFan (@cairnsfella)
25th March 2024, 1:31
@willwood
This is what I have been trying (albeit poorly) to articulate elsewhere. Not an outright opposition to robust defensive driving, but the fact that there must be a line which one should not cross.
I think we all know that Fernando will push the limits at times, and I regularly admire him for doing so. But this does expose him to the possibility of crossing that line, which was found to be the case here. And to be honest, I feel he has been questionably close in the past and has got away with it. You win some, you lose some.
CarWars (@maxv)
24th March 2024, 10:14
Its F1 you should roll over and get overtaken with DRS, for the show..
Bullfrog (@bullfrog)
24th March 2024, 10:40
That’s right, and if it’s a completely uncontested one they can show the VOTE OVERTAKE AWARD caption…
Crawliin-from-the-wreckage (@davedai)
24th March 2024, 10:17
It’s all very well this oh this happened so…..
In the interests of complete transparency I want a complete transcript of the meeting and whether the decision was unanimous and who voted blah blah.
Johnny Herbert’s recent posts regarding Red Bull and Max very close to signing for Mercedes may have had a bearing on Russell being determined to show who’s Number 1 there as much as Alonso ( another contender) had in driving as he did.
I think Herbert should not be a steward, and should recuse himself, just stand down in light of his recent articles.
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 11:05
I was thinking the same, but wasn’t going to say it. It seems like drivers from outside the series or at least less opinionated drivers of a different nationality from some of the front runners should be stewarding.
An Sionnach
24th March 2024, 15:41
I’m not sure Herbert knows the meaning of the word “recuse”, or that it may be questionable to appoint someone as a steward who was just calling for the resignation of one of the team bosses…
Depailler
24th March 2024, 10:26
If only Alonso had waited until GR was alongside and pushed him off the track he would have only got a 3 place grid drop.
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 10:57
lol
Alesici
24th March 2024, 13:58
This.
PlosslF1
24th March 2024, 10:35
You can tell some people haven’t even read the stewards report, you trying doing that on IRacing and see how long you last.
“Alonso explained that while his plan was to slow earlier, he got it slightly wrong and had to take extra steps to get back up to speed. Nonetheless,
this manoeuvre created a considerable and unusual closing speed between the cars.”
So he can only get a penalty if Russell had launched over the back of him like Webber Valencia 2010?
“Russell explained to the stewards that from his perspective, Alonso’s manoeuvre was erratic, took him by surprise and caused him to close distance unusually fast, and with the resulting lower downforce at the apex of the corner, he lost control and crashed at the exit of the corner.”
To quote Toms’ post from above-
“I’ve just watched again. On lap 57 Alonso was doing 280 before braking for the corner, basically at the corner itself. On lap 58 he brakes on the straight 100m before the corner and slows to 240 before blipping the accelerator to get back up to 248. He’s going 232 into the corner when the lap before he was 280.” If this is correct thats a hell of a speed difference.
‘In considering the matter the stewards focused solely on the wording of the regulation which states “At no time may a car be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person.” (Art 33.4)’
Like Ive said, if you drive like that on any online racing game and you will have to mute all forms of communication because you will get a barrage of abuse before losing most of your safety rating due to getting reported multiple times.
Will Wood (@willwood)
24th March 2024, 10:44
I’m not good enough for iRacing but I do have a ‘S’ rating for sportsmanship in Gran Turismo 7.
But I think your assessment of it is about right.
PlosslF1
24th March 2024, 11:56
Xbox and PC myself so havent tried GT7. You should try Assetto Corsa Competizone (online is free on PC) if you got the gear to play it, its kinda a middle ground between IRacing and GT7 and unlike IRacing people dont take it so seriously, you can get away with ‘Doing an Alonso’ with slightly less grief :-)
Will Wood (@willwood)
24th March 2024, 15:45
I play ACC on my PS5!
PlosslF1
24th March 2024, 16:20
Doh.. didnt think of that, please tell me you use a FFB wheel and not controller :)
Only recently got it on Xbox so to build up my Safety ratings and stuff I did over 1000km at Monza in 3 days online racing, still 2 seconds of the pace… You should of heard some of the names I was called, I had to buy a headset so I could apologies for braking to early :D and once I lost it going into Ascari and thought I had put it into first to get off the racing line more but the wheel was upside down, stuck into reverse and ended up in the middle of track…Carnage, I couldn’t of logged out any quicker…
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 11:00
Your source Tom has closed this case. So, if a driver makes a small mistake in front of you and you’re too out of control to keep from slamming into the back of you, that’s an automatic penalty?
I read the report and you’ve twisted the summary to fit a narrative, but OK.
Interesting.
PlosslF1
24th March 2024, 12:12
I wouldnt say a 48Kmh speed difference a small mistake, I would call it a major dangerous balls up.
Russell is doing hes normal braking and only avoided a crash because Alonso blipped the throttle.
Dont forget this all happens in split seconds, so fast you rely more on muscle memory and reflexes than ” Oh look Alonso has slowed early “.
Russell was probably milli seconds from opening the steering and going straight on, all without thinking about it.
EffWunFan (@cairnsfella)
25th March 2024, 1:45
Have you reviewed your own comments on the subject?
PlosslF1
25th March 2024, 10:53
I wouldn’t say that, I just pointed out it wasn’t a small mistake and added it was only Alonso blipping the throttle that stopped it being a crash. The second half was just putting some context in to highlight this all happens in seconds and is mostly just reflexes at work and not a conscious train of thought. As for twisting the narrative I would be interested in knowing what narrative I’am trying to twist as all I’ve done is basically copy and pasted the salient points of the stewards decision.
PlosslF1
25th March 2024, 10:58
Lol, after hitting the reply button I’ve just thought you might of been replying to Nick T, my bad if you were :)
Patrick (@paeschli)
24th March 2024, 12:51
Crazy to pull such tactics at those speeds. Deserved penalty.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
24th March 2024, 16:06
Agree 100% that’s a penalty – I love Alonso but he should know better and this is the second time he’s done this.
W (@vishnusxdx)
24th March 2024, 21:46
This is an excellent comment and the best argument on the page as to why the stewards concluded the way they did.
Bullfrog (@bullfrog)
24th March 2024, 10:46
With all the penalties across different series this weekend, either we’ve seen a load of bad driving, or the world’s most officious, meddlesome stewards.
20 seconds is useless as a deterrent – if they want to make an example of it they should give him a race ban (and us a chance to see some different drivers).
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
24th March 2024, 19:42
20 sec is a huge penalty, a drive through equivalent, and even worse when the field is bunched up.
Paolo (@paulsteward40)
24th March 2024, 11:13
Re: Alonso – stewards called it right IMO. Alonso was damned by his own admissions, braking (even slightly) 100M before normal braking point, would have lit up his brake light at a point where Russell wasn’t expecting it. It wasn’t the reason for the crash though. Alonso playing at dark arts again….
Fede
24th March 2024, 11:16
The way I see it is that George Botched it. Has error. Or know you can’t defend by trying to do something different as entering with different trajectory and speed into a a curve. He didm’t slow the car by braking. He thought, Alonso, of a way to defend and unsettle George, as he has dom¡ne with many others…but George, in the last lap mas going for it no matter the cost, and he paid for it. You can’t punish a Driver for an intelligent Defense. Senna has done it many times…of Alonso sin’t allowed to defend …we are going to loose Quality and driving in F1
Ajaxn
24th March 2024, 16:32
The difference being the kinds of cars they are driving now and the way this ‘manoeuvre’ compromised the other car’s braking.
Ground effect cars reliant on downforce for grip through high speeds corners, is so very different to conventional car designs. Like wise the ‘stunts’ you can get away with in the name of defensive driving.
Jere (@jerejj)
24th March 2024, 11:17
So the definition of ‘erratic driving’ & ‘potentially dangerous driving’ has apparently changed.
What a ridiculous penalty, especially considering the driver in front generally has the right to choose an approach into a corner, so the driver behind should be prepared & driver a bit further behind if necessary.
Grosjean didn’t get penalized in the 2015 Monaco GP in a not-too-dissimilar incident with the difference of getting hit.
Nick T.
24th March 2024, 11:21
I don’t think Herbert, with his hatred for Alonso, even considered what an insane precedent this could set.
Jere (@jerejj)
24th March 2024, 12:10
Indeed. With this new predecent, the stewards should be willing to penalize every driver who drivers differently on one lap compared to another, especially if someone is close behind regardless of outcome.
Crawliin-from-the-wreckage (@davedai)
24th March 2024, 11:37
I think initially George said
Crawliin-from-the-wreckage (@davedai)
24th March 2024, 11:40
Oh for an edit button, sorry
Simon
24th March 2024, 21:49
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e4/f2/4b/e4f24b20f3f65a410ffc286ef39ae4e8.jpg
Crawliin-from-the-wreckage (@davedai)
25th March 2024, 4:31
Well I could have been doubling down?
Using for emphasis?
Tired and emotional?
The dog copied and pasted incorrectly?
And I was being so serious too.
How embarassment! (as the fictional Elle McFeast would say)
Hit go? Why not!
RBAlonso
24th March 2024, 12:00
I totally disagree with this. This is a can of worms that we’ll never close. Drivers are now responsible for their cars and drivers behind. This is an extreme example but surely on a tarmac run off you just have to evidence a different entry speed from the last lap and drive off the road yourself to get the driver ahead a 20s penalty? We had 2 drivers struggle with broken brakes in this race, had someone went off behind them should there be a penalty?
For me, the main issue is that since we’ve changed the circuit in 2022, to make it much lower down force with a faster profile in that turn, this corner has been excessively dangerous. No-one supports tarmac run offs less than I do, but like Eau Rouge, if you get a swapper on there is nowhere to go, the barrier is too close and you end up broadside. This happened last year with Albon too. It’s a blind turn at huge speed with a car potentially stranded on the apex.
For me, Alonso clearly had an issue of sorts – Russell gained 15s in 10 laps due to a battery problem on the Aston. So Russell should have known that going into the best overtaking section Alonso would moderate his apex speed. And that’s his right. Russell ends up off line, on the marbles and cross the gravel. It’s the dip in the gravel that sends him into a barrier that is too close. For me, it’s a driving error compounded by a poorly designed corner.
But I think this is a case of the stewards trying to fix one issue and causing others. This will be totally unenforceable and drivers will call for it all the time. Last time in Saudi why couldn’t Yuki drive off the road and blame Magnussen for being excessively slow? It’s nonsense.
K (@sugoi)
24th March 2024, 12:21
A brake testing penalty because not doing a brake test.
Nice.
Crawliin-from-the-wreckage (@davedai)
24th March 2024, 12:30
Good job sugoi.
t1redmonkey (@t1redmonkey)
24th March 2024, 12:31
Not a fan of the over-policing in general that seems to have become more prevalent in F1 over the last 5 years or so, this is just another example of it. Seems like they just want drivers to politely move aside and let approaching cars through without defending at all sometimes. I hope AM appeal this decision and it gets overturned.
DaveW (@dmw)
24th March 2024, 12:51
Keyboard pilots complaining that he didn’t actually brake don’t realize that at these speeds and with the cars’ drag levels lifting off is like slamming on the brakes in any normal car. And at those speeds a car .5s behind with a normal human reaction of time of .2s has very little margin to avoid an accident.
Oople
24th March 2024, 15:41
@dmw
The ignorance in a lot of these comments is astounding.
As you say, the context of the marginal timing made this fair to investigate and not promote a prescidence for.
Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
24th March 2024, 12:57
Constant perpetual cycle of one year it all being “let them race” and we will even bring in a black and white flag to not penalise everything, slowly turning into complete and utter over regulation and draconian penalties for even trying racecraft. We will be back to “let them race” soon no doubt (for 5 minutes).
Sergey Martyn
24th March 2024, 15:04
In real life no matter how hard you brake the guy behind you is always guilty.
Oople
24th March 2024, 15:43
In real life, you’re expected to keep a gap to the car in front.
In racing, your entire job is to eliminate any gap to the car in front.
Unbelievably stupid comparison.
Gary
24th March 2024, 15:34
Had Russell been in front with Alonso behind, and had Russell done exactly what Alonso did, I guarantee you that Alonso doesn’t crash, and that Alonso makes the pass due to Russell slowing.
The limit
24th March 2024, 15:45
I have also read that the stewards are considering penalizing the wall for being too close to the track. The circuit too may also be sued for not moving said wall. Thank God for George though, perish the thought that he ever should make a mistake in life. Captain Perfect
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
24th March 2024, 16:04
Sounds like another disguised brake test by Alonso. Very dangerous, could have killed Russell and Hamilton the last time.
Dani B. Molina (@esmiz)
24th March 2024, 16:17
Racing ins not allowed anymore
sam
24th March 2024, 16:27
I saw that and was wondering if fred brake checked George. fred is a NASTY.
AlanD
24th March 2024, 16:55
At the time the accident happened, and before there was any hint of an Alonso penalty, I wondered what would happen if the track had been blocked completely and the red flag was thrown to end the race? I believe that if the race is flagged on the last lap, that the finishing order is taken from the end of the preceeding lap,… but does the driver causing the crash keep his place, or is he deemed a non-finisher? Today we had a VSC which led to a fair result, I thought, but f they had stopped the race, it wouldn’t have felt right for Russell to keep his points after crashing and causing the red flag. Does anyone know, for sure, what the rules would have been in this situation?
Phil Norman (@phil-f1-21)
24th March 2024, 17:40
I have read the stewards comments which seem very fair. I’m not sure I entirely believe Alonso’s version of events but I think they have dealt with it fairly. I don’t need to read 100 comments.
Dale
24th March 2024, 20:00
Grow up Phil
Phil Norman (@phil-f1-21)
25th March 2024, 0:31
Nothing not grown up about what I said. I read about the first 10 comments and just became bored. I’m happy with my opinion/comment.
Baleux (@baleux)
25th March 2024, 15:08
You have a skill I constantly wish I had!
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
24th March 2024, 19:43
Fully disagree with this penalty, I didn’t even think there could be a penalty judging by what I saw in the race.
Dale
24th March 2024, 19:59
Formula 1 really is a joke.
I feel like I’m really wasting my time waking up in the dark watching qualifying & races live, only to look like a fool discussing them with people later in the day and finding out that I actually don’t have the necessary facts for the discussing because the officials are forever changing the results hours after the event is over.
Imagine football (or cricket / rugby / baseball / etc) fans paying a fortune to go to a live match and then having to wait until the next morning to find out who won and who lost, & by how much.
Kinda defeats the purpose.
Grapmg
24th March 2024, 20:07
Where is MBS when you need him :)
Jim from US (@jimfromus)
24th March 2024, 21:41
3 penalty points indicates how serious the infraction was.
PlosslF1
24th March 2024, 23:51
Here’s something you can do to understand the affect Alonso’s driving through corner had on the car, go to YT and find the on board footage of Russell’s car and cue it leading up to the incident then play it at 0.25 playback speed and watch Russell’s steering wheel, your see the car go almost instantly into snap oversteer due to the loss of downforce, which he counter steers into but runs out of road before he can save it.
Now you could say ‘ what if Alonso had a problem’ or ‘well Russell should of x,y,z’ but thats not the point, Alonso himself said it was a deliberate move, there was no way Russell could of known Alonso was slowing early on purpose through a high speed braking zone to gain an advantage. It was a Dangerous move, simple as that…
Baleux (@baleux)
25th March 2024, 15:35
The use of ‘should of’ instead of ‘should’ve/should have’ invalidates your previous comment, which was excellent.
Jk, ‘ve course :)
PlosslF1
25th March 2024, 19:29
Lol, when I read this I had a flash of DeJa Vue, then I remembered I’ve done this before on this site and someone pointed it out, wasn’t you by any chance was it? :-)
I can guarantee, give it an hour or two and I’ll be back to writing ‘should of’ lol
nick mackereth
25th March 2024, 7:48
Sack the Stewards all of them and let’s enjoy f1 like the old days. When someone rear ends me driving to work I expect him to pay it’s not my fault. Give Alonso a break (no pun intended) he’s to experienced and cool to drive like a lunatic who can create very dangerous situations
Avtandil Chelidze
26th March 2024, 10:20
Anyone defending stewards decision to penalize Alonso should stop watching any form of racing altogether. It’s funny how these DRS asserted overtakes have created a generation of “fans” who can’t see and appreciate great defensive driving. At no point was Alonso brake checking anyone. He did deaccelerate yes but this wasn’t done in an alarming speed or fashion and Russel’s inability to account for a slowing car raises questions only to his skill and safety of other drivers around him. Most other drivers on the grid would have countered Alonso’s move but not him, not in that Mercedes.