Qualifying penalty leaves Hamilton ninth on the grid

2011 Monaco Grand Prix

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Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, Monaco, 2011

Lewis Hamilton has been demoted to ninth on the grid for the Monaco Grand Prix.

The stewards deleted his best time after deciding he cut the chicane on his qualifying lap.

This was the only lap time Hamilton set during Q3.

Updated grid in full: 2011 Monaco Grand Prix grid

Update: The FIA’s official qualifying classification puts Hamilton ninth on the grid.

2011 Monaco Grand Prix

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    Keith Collantine
    Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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    176 comments on “Qualifying penalty leaves Hamilton ninth on the grid”

    1. Does this mean he can start on whatever tire he chooses now?

      1. The Last Pope
        28th May 2011, 17:42

        er no. He has to use the set he did his 2nd fastest time on.

        1. he didn’t set a 2nd fastest time in q3 though. (don’t forget the rule only applies to q3…)

          1. The Last Pope
            28th May 2011, 17:52

            Yes he did. It was the lap he met with Massa, that was a timed lap.

            1. The session was stopped before he completed the lap, so it won’t count. Hamilton will indeed get to choose his tyres.

            2. The Last Pope
              28th May 2011, 18:10

              Ah ok my mistake :)

              Do you not think they might make him use the tyres that he used to set the discounted lap. Otherwise in future someone doing only one run could use a track short cut on purpose to delete a messed up lap and use the penalty to get new tyres.

            3. They already can, by simply aborting the lap and going into the pits, Schumacher did it last weekend.

            4. The Last Pope
              28th May 2011, 22:33

              lol of course, Thanks Icthyes, I’m glad one of us has their brain turned on. :)

      2. if his time is ‘deleted’ then technically he hasn’t set a time at all. therefore I’d think he’d be able to choose which tyre to start on.

        1. Might be right but I think he’ll have to use the tyres he set his fastest lap on, even if that lap was deleted.

          1. but there was no fastest lap
            it’s a bit mysterious.

      3. If that was the case they would all be cutting the chicane!

    2. Lucas Alexander "Mr. Veloce" Munro
      28th May 2011, 17:38

      Did he? Well if he didn’t, then it’s obvious they have it in for Lewis… -.-

      1. They wouldn’t penalise him if he didn’t do anything.

        1. Fernando Alonso, Monza, 2006?

          1. I’d like to think the stewards would look back on that, and realise the degree of stupidity in that penalty.

          2. Commendatore
            29th May 2011, 12:40

            Sorry mate but Alonso was rightfully penalised. Here’s why:

        2. He got penalized (reprimanded) for “getting sideways” out of the pitbox.

          But sure, the score of the senseless penalties that he suffered at the hands of his arch enemy, Alan Donnelly, are now over (after Mosley and his cronies left).

          1. I agree, I think (and certainly hope those bullying days are over) I would imagine that they must have footage of the incident. Although the stupid camera switching certainly did not help viewers see what happened.

      2. He must have cut it, now that Alan Donelly and Max Mosley have left the stewards are very neutral. What an awful weekend for him when he’s been driving so well, to top it all Massa’s blatant blocking has gone unpunished. Ninth must surely mean his weekend is ruined. Shame, I’d have loved to have seen Hamilton versus Vettel around Monaco, this has really put a damper on the weekend for me, especially as Seb is running away with the championship. Hopefully Button or Webber can do something about him tomorrow (but I won’t be holding my breath!).

    3. They didn’t decide, surely? Discovered maybe.

      @Glenn – has to keep the same tires are far as I know.

      1. I would think not, the rule is that you have to start on the tyres you set your best qualifying time on, ut now he officially hasn’t set a time so how can he?

    4. I saw Button abandon his lap following Hamilton and he went across the chicane. I can only imagine that it was at Swimmingpool that Lewis cut across?

      on the 5live commentry Crofty said that Lewis cut across but Ant Davidson corrected him (what i believed at the time was correct) that it was Jenson and not Lewis. I guess that Crofty was right afterall.

      1. Ive just rewatched Lewis’s lap. oh and we’d obviously have our answer if that damn TV director wasnt cutting to something else every 2 seconds live its an MTV music video! It follows Lewis to the Tunnel and cuts to the Loews hairpin for Jenson!

        1. First I hear people complain that they always miss things, now people complain that they cut away too often? Either they cut away to catch other things going on or they stick with one thing, you can’t have both.

          And honestly as someone who directs a live sporting broadcast, you seriously cannot predict what’s going to happen. We’re not psychic. When they miss stuff, I just shrug and wait for the replay.

      2. The Last Pope
        28th May 2011, 17:44

        That was Button. This is another event unseen on TV.

        1. I’m glad it wasn’t just me that thought the director had a few chardonnay’s before the qualify.

    5. Maybe they saw the awful TV direction when it switched to Button from Hamilton and thought it was him! ;)

      Although surely it will be 9th with Perez not racing tomorrow? You’d think there’d just be a gap but I think it works otherwise.

      1. As neither Hamilton nor Perez set a time, the order between the two is decided by the car numbers. Lewis is 3 and Sergio is 17, so Lewis starts in front of him.

    6. What decides if he will be 9th or 10th? as Perez didn’t set time either..

      1. Yeah, shouldn’t he be 9th? I thought it was done by Q2 time.

        1. He’ll start in the 10th grid spot, while Perez’s spot (9th) would be empty.

          At least that’s how I think it would work.

        2. Renato Breder
          28th May 2011, 18:20

          No, no!!

          We must follow the events…

          First: Pérez´ accident (so, he set no time). Second: Hamilton´s penalty (time deleted)

          by the order… 9th Pérez, 10th Hamilton

          PS: sorry for my english…

    7. So now I expect Hamilton will either win or park it in the barriers early in the race.

      By the way, I guess Perez will not race ,so technically 9th, dirty side of the track though.

      1. 9th is on the inside, which is better for the short, rightwards-bending run to the first corner.

    8. i hope he manages to get 3rd..otherwise my prediction is screwed..

      great job by jenson though to be 2nd..again messing with my prediction..

      should be an exciting race tomoro

    9. Guys. We gota do something about this.
      No to mention about the ****** stupid unfair rules in place for Qualifying. Who invented this way of qualifying cars within the set time? It does not make sense. They should just give 3 laps of each driver to complete in each Q1 Q2 and Q3. Simply choose the best lap out of them. Lets give them a time frame of an hour, or 40 mins. enough for everyone to get a decent lap in, and not disrupted by accident like today.

      Secondly, FIA was not ashame of its stupid rule and decided to penalize drivers who suffered? Look, FIA should look at what Hamilton did in Q1 and Q2, he was way faster than the final time he set. He has no choice but to cross the chichane!! The bloody tyres were cold !!!! FIA did not even give extra time for drivers to warm up their tyres.

      Drivers who abandoned their flying lap should be given extra time. It doesnt make sense. Its uncivilized. Its so ironic that we all trying to follow the rules in order to make the game fair while it is actually doing the opposite.

      I am very angry about what has happened.
      Hamilton top Q1 and Q2. It wasn’t his fault that he couldnt make a proper lap in Q3. Just because a mistake by Perez?!

      1. It wasn’t his fault that he couldnt make a proper lap in Q3

        He had 7 minutes to do a lap before Perez’s crash then had 2 minutes after it to do a lap. Every other driver in Q3 managed to complete a lap. It was entirely Hamilton fault that he didn’t set a clean lap.

        1. Well his team’s, yes.

        2. Exactly, despite being the most successful team at Monaco, McLaren seemed to not realise that accidents are more likely at Monaco and accidents can equal red flags. To be fair, I don’t think Lewis had a chance after the red flag but why did his engineers decide to do just 1 run, especially as Jenson did 2. It can’t have been about keeping a set of fresh tyres because the degradation is so low. Why McLaren why? Do the engineers really have that much say that Lewis couldn’t tell them he wanted the 2 runs he should have done?

          1. I think it depends when the decision to run once in Q3 was taken. If before the race, then Lewis had time to make his case and he has to accept the decision. If during Q2 and Q3, say, with ‘new’ information and data analysis from qualifying, then it would be more extreme to contest the team.

            Still I really can’t see any justification for taking the risk. Worse – the pressure to run fast with colder tyres after the red flag clearly led to the penalty and additional grid drop.

        3. You are very wrong. All drivers has the right to use every single seconds of the 10 mins. Doesnt matter if it is the last second or the very first minute. Hamilton was using the time at about 5-7 mins into the 10 minuets. He has all the right to let the lap clear up a bit, but his lap was ruin by a mistake from another driver who crashed and red flagged the whole session.

          Every driver should be given the same time and condition to do the qualifying. I think drivers should be randomly selected to do the lap for a round of three times during each Qualifying session. Best of three laps should be selected, and drivers has the right just to run once if they wish.

          that way, all drivers get the same number of lap. The current method is uncivilized.

          1. Every driver should be given the same time and condition to do the qualifying.

            Agreed! The same condition.

            I think drivers should be randomly selected to do the lap for a round of three times during each Qualifying session.

            But this gives everybody largely DIFFERENT conditions.

            If Hamilton did his 3 qualy laps (as you propose) at 13:00, and Webber did his at 13:52, then guess who would be faster?

            Keywords: track grip improvement, track temperature change, weather change

            1. Three laps, like this:
              Three rounds 1 lap each.

              IT was just a brainstorming idea. Whatever make it fair, I am open for it.

          2. All drivers has the right to use every single seconds of the 10 mins. Doesnt matter if it is the last second or the very first minute. Hamilton was using the time at about 5-7 mins into the 10 minuets.

            Hamilton chose to wait, and the (really obvious) risk of waiting, is that a red flag could spoil that plan.

        4. Well that is not really the point. I would say it would be fairer if they added extra time to the session if it is red flagged, enough time to give counter the time it takes to get around a lap. so that all the drivers that were on a hot lap could at least get a fair crack as currently they are double penalised as they use a set of tyres and then can’t set a proper time!

          1. I would say it would be fairer if they added extra time to the session if it is red flagged

            I was thinking this. If the seeion is red flagged, and driver currently out on a flying lap should be allowed to queue in the pit lane and make their out-lap. Qualifying seesion timer only restarts (and the rest of the drivers allowed out) when the last of these cars crosses the line (assuming they were queuing). That would be a fair way.

        5. True, and he criticised the strategy afterwards. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, but deciding against an early ‘banker’ lap seems like a big gamble – perhaps he should have spoken up at the time.

      2. totally agree with you!! i hope we see a change next year! though it seems impossible.

        but as a mclaren fan i now believe that “**** happens!”

      3. Calm down and please show a bit of respect to Perez, I know you angry but maybe you should slow.

        I have long been saying a driver’s best time out of all the qualifying sessions should count, in case they are blocked in Q3. Sure, people are punished, but that’s no help to the guy who was blocked.

        1. I repect Perez and I think he is a good driver. getting into Q3 with a car from Sauber.
          I am angry at the FIA, at the rules which were set by idiots.

          Why do we even need Q1 Q2 Q3 ????

          We can simply let all driver to produce Three Laps. the best of the three will count.
          All drivers will be given a clear Run. Simple as that. If it rains, then Wet time will not be used to compare with dry time.
          All cars should be using the same type of tyres.

          Simple method. And importantly, it’s fair.

          1. The current system is fair (apart from the 107% rule).

            You only want it changed because your favourite driver didn’t do well today. That’s not a good enough reason.

            1. Keith, why do you think it’s fair?
              Doesnt matter who it was. The same thing happened to Heidfield a few weeks back and I had the same thought.

              Why do you think it is fair that Hamilton used a new set of soft, in the middle of the flying lap, and had to abandon it. And restart after half an hour, with a cool tyre and was only allowed to complete one lap?

              In theory, if there were no accident, he was able to complete the lap was has in, and another 2 hot laps.

              So doesnt matter who it was. Lets look at this situation. Keith, tell me why do you think it is fair? I love to see how you make your point.

              And 107% rule is perfectly fair. If you were 7% slower than the top car, go to GP2, you do not deserve to be in F1.

            2. Because it’s the same for everyone.

              As for the 107% rule: Why F1 doesn’t need the 107 % rule

            3. Because it’s the same for everyone.

              It’s not the same for everyone, Keith.

              Today, there was 2 groups of drivers.

              1. who were on a flying lap during the accident
              2. who were in the pit during the accident.

              It was not the same.

              1. get affected dearly and sacrificed the flying lap.

              2. Has lost nothing.

              To be fair, the Q3 should be extended for about 3 mins (outlap + a lap), even the 3 mins will not put the degredation of the soft tyre in to account since the Pirelle is so fragile.

            4. You simply can’t factor out luck or lack of it. The system is fair as anyone is free to set a time at any time. The SC probability has to be treated like a wet qualifying session where the rain can fall or fall heavier at any moment. That’s just luck. Team’s deal with that by setting a ‘banker.’ Which is what Hamilton should have done today in Q3.

            5. Of course it was the same for everyone. Hamilton had the same opportunity to set a lap at the same time as everyone else. That he didn’t is the fault of himself and his team and not the rules.

            6. To be honest Keith, I have always thought this system is a little unfair, no matter which driver gets affected. You have 10 mins to set a lap, that means that you are allowed to use any of the 10 mins laps get quicker as the session progresses so it is best to set a lap last. Plus the FIA encourage only one set of tyres to be used by limiting the number of sets. I think it would be fair if an outlap time was added to the session to allow the drivers to at least get back on a flying lap. If there is only a minute left then the session is over (and the SHOW cut short) as there is no way for a driver to get back on to a flying lap. Also while they are at it they can give the Q3 runners an extra set of softs so 11th is no longer better than 10th…

            7. Of course it was the same for everyone. Hamilton had the same opportunity to set a lap at the same time as everyone else. That he didn’t is the fault of himself and his team and not the rules.

              Hamilton was given same opportunity. But this opportunity was cut short when an accident occured. He has to do another outlap to make up for it. Why does he have to do another outlap for it when everybody else doesnt?

              The opportunity was taken away. He was given 10mins. Not 7:34 sec and 2:26 seperate session.

              What’s wrong with extending another 3mins to everyone? Can you ask FIA this question?

              I am surprised that Keith you don’t understand this. It’s simple Logic.

              Fairness means nobody should suffer more than others in any situation. When one need to alter their plan due to someone elses mistake, thats not right.

            8. I am surprised that Keith you don’t understand this. It’s simple Logic.

              No it isn’t, it’s a gross distortion of logic in a painfully transparent attempt to make out that Hamilton was hard done by, when everyone else can see that he and McLaren dropped the ball.

              Hamilton himself has admitted as much (Hamilton rues costly qualifying strategy) and you should too.

            9. I’m sorry but I cannot agree. Just because it’s the same for everyone it doesn’t make it a good rule. As I said before people have lost rows on the grid due to being blocked when their previous time would have seen them better. It doesn’t matter who it happens to or that it can happen to anyone.

            10. You only want it changed because your favourite driver didn’t do well today. That’s not a good enough reason.

              Very, very little I have seen here suggests otherwise.

            11. I must say I agree with Keith on this one.

              Also regarding the rules, qualifying used to be different at one stage, there was a rule where all drivers took turns to qualify within 1 hour. It was a bit boring I think. Not sure what the exact reasons were to abolish that rule.

              However, I like the current rules. 10min for Q3 is plenty of time for 10 drivers to set a time. Look at Vettel, he almost always goes out early and sets a time. He then allows himself enough time to have another run if needed. Hamilton waited a bit too long (considering he is fighting for the pole) probably for the very reason of limiting his run to save tyres or for the track conditions to be at peak. There is always a risk with that and every driver is aware of it. That is the price you pay for being a bit too optimistic.

            12. No it isn’t, it’s a gross distortion of logic in a painfully transparent attempt to make out that Hamilton was hard done by, when everyone else can see that he and McLaren dropped the ball.
              Hamilton himself has admitted as much (Hamilton rues costly qualifying strategy) and you should too.

              Even Alonso understands that under such circumstances it does not truly reflect the true order.

              Fernando Alonso: I don’t think the result of Q3 represents the true order because the red flag mixed up plans for many of the drivers. For Hamilton it went badly, while everything was fine for Red Bull, with us at a halfway point: we should have done two runs of two timed laps each without refuelling and therefore, we did not get the most out of the tyre

              If it was fair, it should.
              And Keith, you have yet to answer. What is wrong with giving 3 minutes extra to compensate the lost time? That is 3 mins to everyone, to ensure everyone get a proper go.
              2:26, is not enough to warm the Tyres!

            13. 2:26, is not enough to warm the Tyres!

              Yes it is. When going out for a one-lap run, you have to heat up the tyres on your out lap. If your out lap is less than 2:26, you’ll be allowed to finish the hot lap.

            14. Whilst I think the current system is fair, it is not perfect. It’s definitely better than the single-lap system we had a few years back and the prior system of a one hour free-for-all was always a problem at Monaco too.

              Not putting in a banker lap is, of course, risky and will sometimes go wrong, however I think from a sporting perspective it’s disappointing that a problem one driver can lead to a red (or even yellow) flag that relegates faster cars down the grid. This can be the case even with a banker lap, and we should not forget tat this year tyre strategy encourages against banker laps to save tyres.

              I’m not for knee-jerk changes, and I don’t see a lot wrong with the current system, but FIA would do well to at least bear in mind that even a good system can be tweaked to improve it. If that includes adding on the time for an out lap, so be it. But then we’ll be saying the drivers should be compensated for the option tyres they took the life out of on the aborted lap….:-)

          2. Why do we even need Q1 Q2 Q3 ????

            We have it to enjoy a 60minute qualifying full of action and cars on the track for the whole time.

            We can simply let all driver to produce Three Laps. the best of the three will count.

            We’ve had a single lap qualifying. Twas boring compared to what we have now, and wasn’t as fair as the current sytem.

            All drivers will be given a clear Run. Simple as that. If it rains, then Wet time will not be used to compare with dry time.

            LOL, what?
            The conditions for every driver would be different then. And if half the field completed their qualifying in dry and it began raining, then what do you do? Wait the whole day for it to stop raining, so they also can run in dry?
            But then it’s late, dark and colder, so their qualifying is already messed up (and the rain may not stop at all).
            And what with the broadcast?

            1. Did you read what I wrote? Wet time should not be used to compare with dry time.

              But anyway, I guess that idea just came up to my mind, and I am not pushing it. I just think that the current situation does not reflect what some of the drivers can produce. Hamilton topped Q1 and Q2 until an accident. it kind of tells the story right?

              FIA can simply extend the Q3 time for another 3 mins due to the accident. That way, it will be fair to those who were on a flying lap during the distribution.

            2. Wet time should not be used to compare with dry time.

              But do you realize that some drivers would not have the chance of completing a dry lap if it began to rain?

            3. But do you realize that some drivers would not have the chance of completing a dry lap if it began to rain?

              Then abandon the dry time and do a Wet to compare with the Wet time!!

              It was just a brainstorming idea.
              I just think that what ever happened today was not right.

              Lets imagine, if the accident happened 8:50min into the session.

              And a few cars abandoned their flying laps, and were not able to set a time again, because there werent enough time for them to get to the starting line.

              So do we just simply let the session cut short by 1min and 10 seconds?

              Look guys, my point is that, the session were cut short and it was unfair in my perspective, and I hope you all consider it.

              It doesnt make sense to me.

            4. jsw11984 (@jarred-walmsley)
              28th May 2011, 20:52

              I understand that you think its unfair, however what you propose is vastly more unfair in terms of how the drivers qualify not to mention horrendsly complicated, I still don’t understand what your wet time vs dry time nonsense is all about. And in regards to your complaining about Hamilton being in the pits when the accident occured, that was a McLaren decision not to run before then, not the FIA saying no, you can’t be on the track.

      4. It is a fair system. Everyone gets the same track time and can use it as best they please. If Hamilton and Mclaren were caught napping it’s their own fault.

        How would you decide what order the drivers got their three laps in? The track evolves and gets more grip so surely that’s unfair system you’re proposing?

        1. The three laps can be given in three rounds. So randomly pick drivers to do a lap until everyone has done a flying lap, then next round repeats and same for the third round, until all drivers completed all three laps. Drivers can simply do 1 lap if they wish.

          The track evolves, and I agree. It happens now anyway. You can guarantee you were the last car to do the lap time, but you can only try, some driver mis out, and some managed to be the last car. with this system, all drivers will get a go with a clear track.
          It was selected randomly, which is fair.

          1. It was selected randomly, which is fair.

            You have a flawed understanding of fairness.
            Fairness is giving equal chance. Random selection is not fair, it’s random.

            1. it was a brainstorming idea.
              Damon, Do you think drivers were given equal chance today?

              Given extra 3mins to everybody, will that count as fair? as Fairness is giving equal chance.

            2. John Cousins
              29th May 2011, 7:30


            3. John Cousins
              29th May 2011, 7:32

              by exactly, i mean what Damon said!

        2. what alpha is suggesting clearly eliminates a situation in which a fast driver is caught up in traffic…but you’re completely right about grip…it has significant effect on a lap time

        3. You all think that as long as everyone gets the same then it means fair…. the thing is, not everyone get the same.
          People who were on their flying lap clearly got less lap time right? It was cut short!

          Like safety car, it was unfair. Say a gap of 30seconds can reduce down to less than a second after deploying safety car.

          Qualifying should give us the best reflection of the ability of the drivers and their cars. Which is one of improvement from a few years back when can need to carry their fuel load in Q3 into the race.

          1. Maverick_232
            28th May 2011, 20:44

            I understand your frustration but ultimately, every team on the grid knows that the likelihood of any driver sticking it in the barriers at Monaco is dramatically increased.
            Therefor, they are much more aware of this and do keep this in mind whether in quali or the race. As we all know, a good strategy call could completely change a drivers race.
            A red flag or Safety car can hinder or benefit anyone at any time and Is always going to be unfair to someone…… especially at Monaco.

            Combining the on-going monitoring of tyre deg, track temp, free air, car settings and track evolution, chuck in a red flag or SC and that completely changes everything.

            I’m a Hamilton fan and am just as frustrated because for the first time this year I really thought he could of had the Red Bulls in Q3. Unfortunately a nasty shunt has disadvantaged him, but could have disadvantaged anyone because…. it is Monaco… and that’s why we love the place.

            I will also add though, where is Massa’s pen? Or does that not count now as Lewis cut the chicane?

      5. “Guys. We gota do something about this”


        1. It has nothing to do with USA… they cant race.

      6. It is the same for everybody so that means that even though it might seem unfair it is unfair to everybody. People crashing and weather changing is something you need to take into account in qualifying. The team didn’t think that it was necessary to post a lap early, or he had trouble, and that hit him back hard. That is motor racing.
        If a driver crashes in the race it can also ruin other peoples races, that is a part of it. If you wanted it fair the drivers should be driving on a playstation on an empty track in the EXACT same conditions for 78 laps and then see who got though the race quickest. That would be “fair” but that is not motor racing.

        1. Obviously there are always going to be factors that affect drivers laps. However I do think it is unfair that if a driver is on a hot lap and it is red flagged then they loose not only the set of tyres they were on but also don’t get to set a lap either plus they loose the time taken to get back on a flying lap as in any other case if the driver is not able to get a good lap they are straight back on to a flying lap again. If they were to add enough time on to the session to compensate for the fact that the drivers need to do an out lap then I think it would be fair to all. Also I do think it is stupid that 11th place is pretty much regarded as more advantageous than 10th or even 9th! Surely it would be better to offer 1 extra set of softs for the last session to make 10th and 9th better propositions?

          1. I dont understand why we cant just give them three extra minutes?? noone will complain!

            1. Why not give them an extra three hours? The session is set at 10 minutes. Ample time to get in a flying lap, red flag or not. The track conditions may not have been optimal at the end for Hamilton to set a fast lap, but factors/circumstances will ALWAYS come into play in qualifying, no matter what the format is.

          2. An extra set of option tires would be a great incentive to get into Q3 (but they would have to make a rule they have to be used or something, otherwise they may just save the tires and park the car)….

            1. actually, probably doesn’t matter… it would be an incentive nonetheless to not save tires…

      7. This whole argument is stupid. If we want to give all the drivers the same conditions and a ‘fair and civilized’ (lol) chance at poll they should all be driving Red Bulls. It’s pretty unfair that Mark and Seb have an advantage over the rest of the field in quali if you want to look at it that way. Not going for an early run was a risk Hamilton took and it backfired, just like it did for Renault earlier this year.

        1. If an extra 3 minutes is added, what if someone crashes like Perez did in that time? Are we just going to keep adding minutes to qualifying, just because someone has crashed? It would ruin the excitement and broadcast ability of qualifying.
          It is the same for everyone. Everyone knows the rules, and the potential situations. If those situations hinder a particular driver, then they would have to deal with it, the FIA aren’t to blame for somebody crashing.

          (If Alonso was in Hamilton’s position, I bet you wouldn’t have complained)

          About Massa’s “blocking” – he had no opportunity to get out of the way until after Casino Square, and he clearly did get out of the way. I assume that’s why the FIA didn’t penalise Massa

          1. I bet I would: this happened a few weeks back with heildfield suffered after Petrov crashed. I remember he managed 14th or 17th grid slot.
            I raised my voice. There were a traffic jam, a line of f1 car trying to get a lap in!

            I don’t think adding three minutes will do any harm. If drivers kept on crashing, what they need to do is fix up the safety of the track! You can’t kept on crashing!

            Adding three minutes to ensure that the final result reflect the true order is perfectly fine. It just allow team to use the last 2:26.

            1. Except in that three minutes there is more rubber down, some rain may have eased or any number of factors could come into play to disadvantage drivers who set a time earlier to be safe and have no more new tires to set a new time with. Honestly, Mclaren and Hamilton would have known this was a risk but they took it to preserve tires or whatever reason. Traffic, accidents, weather etc are always going to come into play on a race weekend, and if you are going to make exceptions for these inevitable factors why bother having the cars on the same track for quali? May as well have the FIA set up a simulator and the drivers can take turns using that to set a lap under the same conditions.

              Out of interest, where does the extra time proposition stop? Do you get more time to do another lap if you are blocked a little? If a late rain storm slows your lap? If your car has a freak mechanical failure that is out of the drivers/teams control?

              The bottom line is giving the drivers an extra couple of minutes would be more fair to the drivers who were held up for whatever reason, but massively unfair to the teams who made the right choice and set times before an incident.

              It’s kind of like cracking under pressure in an exam and messing up a calculation but complaining that you should get another chance because you got a practice question right in class. It just isn’t the way things work.

          2. I don’t think it would, I think it would add. (And make it fairer)

            3 minutes seems a bit large though, perhaps 1m30 or 2 minutes, just to account for the outlap. Then it wouldn’t ruin driver’s on a hotlap’s chances, and could also see a mad dash to the track.

      8. Electrolite
        28th May 2011, 22:59

        Honestly. He cut the chicane, lap didn’t count It’s simple and it happens to everyone. Get over it people.

        Also if the session had not restarted, can you IMAGINE the uproar with people saying that he wasn’t allowed to improve on his time and what a huge catastrophe and disgrace to the sport it would be. :P

    10. its hard not to see a safety car situation in the race itself on Sunday.
      I did not expect Vettel on pole and therefore unless he pulls out a spectacular DNF…he should win easily.
      Hamilton needs to make piece with the gods…and his dad..this string of bad luck is being further compounded by poor strategy by his team.
      Any one thinking right must have known that Monaco is a high risk racetrack and having a bunker lap in at first is always a priority,like he did in Q1 and Q2.

      1. he needs to stop saying stupid crap the week before a GP too.. (look who has the bloody nose now!)

    11. So I was right… :P hehe!

    12. Gaston (@golarrazabal)
      28th May 2011, 18:28

      Thumbs up for Maldonado… I think he’s finally getting the hang of the car and showing some skill. He might be erratic somtimes, but I have no doubt he’s fast.

    13. The FIA are now saying he will start ninth. Story updated accordingly.

      1. Does that confirm Perez will not start then?

        1. He won’t start, but I don’t think Perez had set a laptime either, so therefore neither of them have times. Since Lewis was faster in Q2, he is ahead of Perez

    14. Which chicane did he cut?? Stewards took hell lot of time to figure out this?? Definitely not a hamilton day after coming first in Q1 & Q2.

    15. Surely, as an experienced driver, Hamilton has some say in what strategy he does? Particularly when his team mate is out there doing what most of the others were doing on tyres that aren’t so critical to race pace. As good as he is, there are still flaws in his armoury. Live and learn, I suppose.

      1. Have you ever said anything complimentary about Lewis? Like ever? Even your rare comments which could be construed as positive towards Hamilton are tinged with some sort of negative qualifier.
        That’s not objectivity.

        1. Well what he said is quite correct, Hamilton is placing most of the blame on the team when in this situation he should be the one calling the shots.

        2. Doesn’t mean he’s wrong. What he says makes sense unless you’re going to admit that Hamilton (a former world champion) has no say in his strategy and just rolls over and lets the team dictate everything about his race. Also it’s pretty clear you’re not objective either. It’s a fan forum, we all have bias and opinions.

        3. Did you read what he said?

        4. Choup-a-Charc
          28th May 2011, 22:28

          A positive comment towards it can never be objective

          1. It can if it’s true.

            1. In that case the same can be said about a negative comment, which makes your first reply completely pointless.

    16. This is good news :>

    17. Maybe, lets put it this way. 10mins for Q3 is too short. How can we have 10 mins across for all different tracks? some tracks are longer, and some are shorter.

      And why 10mins?? whats the rush??
      It can last for 20mins like a few years back.

      Seriously like today, if there was 20mins, or at least if there was a system that allow the Q3 to be extended things will turn out a lot fairer.

      At the moment the lap time do not reflect the real result.

      1. Make it longer and everyone waits in the garage for 10 minutes. They made it like this to force drivers on to the track, so there is something to see for the spectators.

        1. I agree. However, if there was an accident, it’s a different case. Extned for another 3 mins to allow the affected driver to get a decent lap in wont hurt.

          1. With this I agree.
            A session stoppage forces the drivers to make a new in-lap, which takes too much of their time.

            1. Wow, finally we found something we both agree on. This is exactly what I was saying in the very first place.

              If I were one of those who were on track, I will be very upset.

          2. jsw11984 (@jarred-walmsley)
            28th May 2011, 21:03

            I too agree with this, if you had just said this in the first place instead of another complicated idea then you would have had people agreeing with you rather than disagreeing

      2. I would say the time the drivers have in Q3 is fair. The reality is that drivers get screwed every now and then, it’s part of Formula One and it’s part of sport in general, all you can do is get over it.

        1. Football has injury time for time wasted under “injury”.

          F1 should have “Inlap time” added after a Red flag situation.

          1. Football doesn’t stop the clock however.

            1. Football doesn’t obey the clock either. That’s why football matches end with 92min, 94min or more on the clock.

    18. Sigh. I recorded it, but just as the session restarted, my default 5 minutes overrun was used up, and I didn’t get to see those last few minutes. Guess I would have been annoyed to see HAM wait too long, get stuck behind Massa and fudge up his one lap chance to get that pole. I think he could have done it.

      Well, that shows again what Monaco can do – but still a Red Bull on top. Had hoped Alonso to be more in the mix too.

    19. Lewis needs to leave this team. These are the worst strategist I have seen either bad calls on weather or bringing in the driver too early or too late when it is apparent to everyone else at home what is obvious.

      Lewis if you want to win a championship again go to Red Bull, Mclaren will be a distant memory after that, poor guy has to compensate for bad calls all the time.

      1. Lee Harrison
        28th May 2011, 19:12

        If it’s McLaren’s fault, why was Button out from the beginning getting laps in? It’s as much the drivers call, not just the teams, fed up of 50-50 mistakes involving Hamilton being blamed all on McLaren.

        1. Maclaren usually split their strategies as the ethos has always been the constructors title is more important than the drivers title.

          If both drivers have the same strategy and it is the wrong one the team suffers.

          But it’s academic as it appears Hami’s/his mechanics strategy failed to take the crash into considereation.

          The only other possibility is that the reward outweighed the possibility to such an extent – like paying a pound and winning a million.

    20. This is a bit of a freak incident, but if any one thing or person is to blame it’s the guys on the pit wall, NOT the format of Qualifying.

      Hamilton looked to have to have the pace to get on the front row but I’m not sure he could have done a 01:13.5, he’s looked a couple of tenths quicker than Button at most circuits, so a 01:13.7 might have been a good shout.

    21. Right, so this is fair because…?

      So the stewards have discretion to overlook the 107% rule, but don’t have the same opinion on times set for someone like hamilton in previous qualifiers. Completely stupid, you would think stewards would have sense to realise that Hamilton had already been punished! This is not the first time something like this has happened to hamilton! I am sorry but you need sheer common sense, the fact that no one seemed to mention it after qualie tells you it was no big deal and would not have affected the outcome!

      1. jsw11984 (@jarred-walmsley)
        28th May 2011, 21:05

        There’s a difference between letting some one race from 23rd and 24th and bumping someone down the order which then punishes them to allow another driver to take that position who hadn’t even set a legal Q3 lap.

        Yes, Hamilton was already punished but it’s fairer to punish him again then to punish another driver is it not?

    22. The stupidity of McLaren’s “blunder” w/ Lewis can only be attributed to some serious money on Lewis to do very well in quali. Why did they not try the same tactic w/ Jenson and why did they not try the same in recent years ? Lewis should have had 2nd place today, worst case. Now Vettel should win in a stroll and if this happens, he will then become the 2011 champion in Montreal !!

    23. What would happened if the accident were to occur on 8:50 into the session? Does that mean we simply cut short the session and what about people trying to complete their flying laps when the accident happen?
      Is there any rules address this issue?

      1. I remember at Silverstone a few years ago, a red flag stopped the session with something like 6 seconds to go. They waved the green flag in order for the time to expire and for some reason, the Toro Rossos decided to go out anyway.

    24. I like Massa but I think he deserves to be penalised for blocking Lewis.

      1. Did he actually block Hamilton, and if he did, was there anything he could have done in the circumstances to avoid doing it?

        Hamilton hasn’t complained about it yet…but give it time.

        1. Yes, he did block hamilton. But Hamilton did not say anything as this was before the accident, and we all thought we had plenty of time.

    25. It’s funny how the qualifying rules are really bad today, but weren’t really bad before today?

      1. Obviously today has highlighted a problem !

        1. It certainly has. If you don’t do what to most people was blatantly obvious (put in a banker lap) you may get caught out later on.

    26. The vast amount of comments in this thread are ridiculous and it is highly amusing.

      The qualifying format is the best it has ever been (minus the top ten tyre rule and the 107% rule). It is a fair system and the teams/drivers know the consequences of not setting times early in a session as a banker.

      Hamilton’s failure to set a time early in the session was a team issue, and that team includes Lewis.

      The stewards shouldn’t give a driver a higher position on the grid due to lap times achieved in practice. It’s a completely different environment and would be unfair to the drivers who have qualified.

      Lewis had his chance, like everyone else, and didn’t take it.

      He also set a lap time by shortening the track. Of course that shouldn’t count.

      I have faith in Hamilton, he is a great racer, and I have no doubt he will be up there fighting for a podium by the end of the race.

      There’s nothing to see here guys. Move along.

      1. Hamilton’s failure to set a lap earlier was due to Massa blocking and then Perez crashing

        1. Hamilton’s failure to set a lap earlier was due to him standing on the outside of his car while other drivers were putting in their banker laps.

          1. Didn’t know you werent allow to do that.

            1. You are allowed to do it, but when the clocks ticking……….

        2. Massa blocking is debatable at best and occurred over half way through the session.

          A driver crashing during a session is just something that happens, it’s not the first time and it won’t be the last.

          Hamilton was just unlucky today. That’s life sometimes, if he had done a lap at the start of the session like everyone else those unlucky moments wouldn’t have been so painful.

          This is Monaco, we have been racing here for decades, we all know you can’t take risks like saving your tyres for one run.

          Hamilton starting ninth will almost guarantee us fans for an exciting race tomorrow. I can’t wait.

          I predicted he would win, so I hope he turns it around.

          1. I wish he does, because he deserves it. But I just can’t see how it could happen. Short lap. No overtaking opportunity. How can you pass 8 cars? not 1, m.. 8? seriously?

            1. This is Monaco, we have seen some crazy results here over the years. I won’t worry about it and just sit back and enjoy the race. He may well pull it off and if he does that will be hugely entertaining and satisfying.

          2. Monaco is always exciting it would be fantastic to see him turn things around, I would love to see Button do it again. I’m keeping an eye on the sly old German too he’s after a record !

      2. Can you explain to me that, whats wrong with extending the Q3 for 3 mins to compensate the time needed to do another outlap especially for those who were trying to complete a flying lap.

        Also, if hamilton has a banker lap, but it was so slow, and he rely the fact that he can complete another one later in the session. What fair will that give him? The session was simply ended when Perez crashed. about 7:30mins. it was cut short. who would expect that.

        I find it amazing that some still think its fair.

        car were unable to complete any competitive lap after the crash. It is equivalent to cutting short the session suddently. Fair?

        1. It is fair, it’s the same for everyone… they all had exactly ten minutes in total to set times. That’s every driver, including Lewis.

          If you extend the time arbitrarily for a crash near the end of the session it’s unfair on the drivers who were sensible and put in a good lap at the start.

          Stopping the clock and continuing until 10 minutes are up you make sure everyone has the exact same amount of time to qualify. That is fair.

          1. Cool beans,

            You don’t understand fairness. Lewis’s lap was cut short. He had to abandon the hot lap he was doing. He wasted an out lap and blocked by Massa then a red flag, that’s about 1:25 + 1:20 + 1 min approximately, almost 4 mins.

            Extend for another 3 mins is fine and fair. As you saw all 9 cars were on track trying to complete another lap during the last 2:26 anyway! Get your facts right mate.

            Not everyone get the 10 minutes. If this 10 were on going, like with a yellow flag, then your point is probably valid. But it was cut into 2 chunks, and drivers were unable to use the smaller chunks of the session, and it is unfair to those who rely it to have another go which they have given right to do so.

    27. I think the real issue with the majority of F1 fans is that one of the best drivers and a favorite to win, is out of the running due to largely events outside his control, and as a spectator sport this will effect the quality of the viewing and the glory for the eventual winner.

      1. Agree.
        This has happened before.
        What can we do….

        1. Cheer for Button!!! I have a feeling this may not be an ordinary Monaco race this year, anything could happen, Ham could turn tables (not very likely) and remember Shoey’s got a record in his sights and experience on his side!

        2. Deal with it.

        3. Here’s an idea, lets not have qualifying at all and put them on the grid in order of popularity as determined by a phone in poll!

          That way nobody can argue that their favourite driver isn’t well represented.


          Mclaren stuffed up here royally and only have themselves to blame. If they are as great as their press releases say they are then we can all be entertained by their meteoric rise through the grid.

      2. Alonso binned his car in Monaco FP3 last year. He made a mistake. He paid for it.

        1. Exactly. Didn’t stop all the anti-Vettel people harping on about how great Webber’s win was.

    28. Wow, if there is one track you do not want to get caught napping, it is Monaco. *** Mclaren? Hamilton needed two times. One early and one late.

    29. I bet Lewis is first to put a time down next year

    30. Can’t get worse for Hamilton. P7 is already too bad. And people please read Hamilton’s interview before blaming him. He clearly mentioned that he was against the one-run in Q3 but his engineers insisted that it’s the best stretegy.

      “In Monaco you can’t take risks and leave it right to the end, you have to get a banker in, as everyone else did.”


      Mclaren let down Hamilton again with a very ordinary stretegy. They can’t afford to make any mistake esepcially when RBR is so strong and running away with the championship.

      1. It does baffle me why people think Hamilton should be a strategy engineering genius as well as a racing driver.

        I think back to Monza last year when people were slating Lewis for running a set-up that made him vulnerable following traffic in Q3 and had him end up in 5th. When in truth it was Button who took what McLaren considered to be the riskier option, and it paid off. For all we know they wanted Jenson to do one run and gave way in the face of stubbornness and it happened to pay off again.

    31. Hamilton was in front of everyone else once the race was restarted in Q3,it didn,t work or he didn,t make it work,and now he,s moaning about team strategy. I hope Button nails it tomorrow and shows his egotistical team mate a thing or two.

    32. Well no need to get emotional, Hamilton is just having one of those days.
      To those who say Hamilton should over rule his engineers, well I have heard “drive the car Lewis”, before.

      But Lewis didn’t blame anyone. He just said they had other issues so no one remembered that this was Monaco.
      Which brings me back to Mclaren’s strategy, at least the Lewis’ end of the garage. They said saving tyres doesn’t matter. Then on a track where track position is more important than fresh tyres, they have a brain wave to save tyres. The race engineer or strategist must be an intern.

      1. Didn’t they promote Lewis’ engineer last year to oversee both sides of the garage?

        1. Meaning he has a new race engineer. Since button arrived.

    33. Hamilton should have overruled his engineers. It’s really is that simple.

      1. hear hear.

    34. Garghhh…It’s so frustrating hearing people whinge about unfairness just because their favourite driver didn’t do well. At the end of the day, Formula 1 is Formula 1. By nature it’s an unpredictable sport, and that’s why alot of people love it. Trying to take away the randomness is killing/would kill the sport. It’s F1, get over it.

      1. 1st race. Seb pole, Seb win.
        2nd race. Seb pole, Seb win.
        3rd race. Seb pole, Ham win.
        4th race. Seb pole, Seb win.
        5th race. Web pole, Seb win.
        6th race. Seb pole…

        You are right, thing being perdictable is boring!

    35. Come on guys they did it on purpose in mclaren not to let Lewis batle vettel from P1-P2…
      No, it was just bad lack, it could ‘ve happened to anyone, that’s racing, that’s Monaco.

    36. Surely if it had been Ham hampering Massa or Alonso, he would have been demoted to a worse spot on he grid. For some reason he seems to get the wrong end of the stick at every incident.

      For example when his pitwall made him cede his spot to Trulli in Australia and then compounded the problem by exhorting him to lie to the stewards when there was no reason to do so.

      When his engineer kept him on the tarmac with a bald rear tire that cost him the championship in Shangai is another example.

      Why wasn’t Webber penalized when he took Ham out in Singapore? It was obvious that if Webber had not rammed Hamilton he would have not been able to complete the corner. Why was he left off the hook for such a blatant unsporting behavior? Had Alonso been the recipient of such caresses, Webber would have gotten his due in short order.

      I do feel for some reason the Race Stewards are not being as fair to Hamilton as they are unto others.

      This being said, lets see what tomorrow has to offer.

    37. Am I the only one to miss that or there wasn’t actually any footage of Hamilton missing the chicane.

      1. There was. You missed it.

    38. What a joke. Yet Massa can get away with blocking Lewis. The stewards obviously not taking into consideration cold brakes and tyres and what they had just sat through. Hopefully Lewis will just go all out tomorrow. Main thing I want to see is Button take a dive down the inside of Vettel. And just to clarify – Lewis should have tyre options due to having no official set time. In for a cracking race though – how many more crashes will we see on the exit of the tunnel I wonder…

      1. I doubt tyre strategy will help. Let’s say Lewis do a hard soft soft, unless he pit in the first few laps to get rid of the hard Tyres, it won’t do any good. As he will end up stuck behind people who’s on hard when he is on soft. The only way to pass is by pit stop. Lewis got a be on soft while the rest is in pit (all 8) of them. And do a flying lap with clean air for a few laps hopefully can do an undercut. But all 8 of them? It’s good that some of us believe in miracle!

    39. I am glad that many agreed with me. Thanks. An extra time for an outlap seems fair and it make sense.

      Look at Monaco this year. First there was a red flag in the qualifying and it alter the race, and today there were another red flag which stopped Button from charging.

      Is it Vettel whos so damn lucky or the money involved in the sport’s bet? If I dont have the faith in the sport I would think otherwise.

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