Daniil Kvyat, Toro Rosso, Hockenheimring, 2016

Glum Kvyat pessimistic over F1 future

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In the round-up: Daniil Kvyat admits he is struggling to get out of his performance slump after returning to Toro Rosso.

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Under pressure and with an extra slug of fuel on board, Nico Rosberg nonetheless delivered pole position in one of his best performances of the yer so far:

Good job by Rosberg today.

He’s been on it all weekend so far and I fancy him for the win barring any major dramas, though expect Hamilton to be right on his tail throughout the race.

It’ll be a far better second half of the season if Rosberg carries some sort of a lead through the summer break.
Mark G (@Sparkyamg)

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  • 69 comments on “Glum Kvyat pessimistic over F1 future”

    1. It seems the FIA have succeeded in scaring the drivers into wanting this halo device. Despite years of F1 without death by debris, all of a sudden drivers are talking about how unsafe it is, especially, as Hamilton says, after this FIA presentation. This is the same technique that is successfully used in politics to brainwash much of the electorate into voting in a certain direction. It’s a disgrace that they’re using it here, in the pinnacle of motorsport. I’m not saying there isn’t a need to improve the safety, but the manner in which they are talking about it as a matter of urgency is very disappointing.

      1. James Coulee
        31st July 2016, 1:40

        Maria de Vilotta, Dan Wheldon, Henry Surtees, Justin Wilson…

        Just this season in F1 we had a few lucky close calls with driver’s heads inches away from other cars’ chassis’ and barriers. In other disciplines too. It’s not wise to push one’s luck.

        1. …Jules Bianchi and those who have been badly hurt- Dario Franchitti, Felipe Massa… I don’t think that the halo is the definitive answer to the problem, but it’s better than nothing for now.

        2. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
          31st July 2016, 9:16

          I really don’t mean any disrespect but de Villote really shouldn’t have been in that car, the crash was through incompetence, Bianchi wouldn’t have been saved, Massa was hit by debris which wouldn’t have been stopped by halo, all your other examples are from other categories and not really relevant, how often do you see bouncing tyres, flying front wings or multi car pile ups on ovals in F1? I’m not against head protection but I couldn’t agree more with @strontium point and he sums up my thoughts perfectly. Basically the halo would protect against loose wheels that we never see anymore, or when two cars collide and mount each other like Alonso Spa 2012, other than that it’s all safety negatives imo.

          1. James Coulee
            31st July 2016, 12:04

            Not often, but often enough to have killed people, as you see. That’s not trivial. It doesn’t happen in F1 until it happens.

            This problem is transversal to all the single seater categories, too, and it’s expected the solution will eventually trickle down to all of them.

            You’re practically saying that De Villota died because she deserved it: that’s in incredible bad taste. First time F1 testers’ “incompetence” -I wouldn’t go as far as calling the natural lack of the understanding of 100% of the procedures on an F1 car “incompetence”- should be a point FOR added security.

            1. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
              31st July 2016, 16:19

              I really don’t remember saying she deserved to die, can you please show me where I said that? I was responding to the examples given above by yourself that weren’t relevant to the halo. I am for head protection but I think it’s been completely over exaggerated and the halo would cause more problems than it solves.

            2. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
              31st July 2016, 16:22

              Look at her racing record she should not have been in an F1 vehicle, she wasn’t up to the standard. This is what happens when you put people in an F1 car because they are pretty. That being said the accident was horrific and I can’t imagine what her family went through.

      2. Strontium is spot on. There’s been some brainwashing going on. That or threats or instructions on how one must behave.


        At least we I get 1 more year of F1 for men.

        1. And thereafter its F1 for men with smarts.

        2. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
          31st July 2016, 10:18

          I’m also getting sick of seeing anyone against the halo being made out to be some kind of barbaric, neanderthal, bravado ridden, reckless, irresponsible, backwards simpleton that doesn’t want safety of any description. That is exactly the type of brainwashing Strontium references. “What?! You like speed, bravery, noise, adrenaline, danger and spectacular things? Are you some kind of male homo sapien with testosterone in your veins??!!! GROW UP!!!”

          1. Also don’t forget that Jules Bianchi’s family are suing the FIA for their responsibility in his crash. It could very well be that the FIA wants to have the halo on the cars, to decrease their legal responsibility in case of a severe crash.

          2. agree Stu!!! it seems to politically incorrect to be against the halo.

    2. Why all this fuss regarding booing? It belongs to sports. Fans passionately love, and fans passionately hate. It’s the same in football, ice-hockey, tennis, etc. Motorsport does not make any kind of exception to the rule.

      What if we’ll just deal with it, stop caring about it and move on?

      1. It’s a complex thing, I think. Booing is generally unpleasant and people with little to no class or intelligence boo the opposition because they want to feel as if they are part of the same kind of battle their entity they support is fighting. They want to find some reason for justifying their actions as supporters. You often see booing at team sports such as soccer/football, ice-hockey, basketball or any other team sport with multiple people doing the same thing together- and this is normal- because it’s not individual people being booed- but a whole squad of players- so it’s easier for them to take it. Whereas motor racing or any other kind of sports involving solitary actvity- particularly F1 is objectionable because there are potentially huge short term effects that might happen- particularly physically- and it’s worse in motor racing because the physical and mental effort required is far greater than any other kind of solitary competition. But since the danger is so much less present in F1 than it was before 1983, people can start to feel more justified in booing competitive drivers they feel are preventingother competitive drivers in achieving the greatest amount of success they can achieve.

        Hamilton was booed at Austria and if he makes it to the podium tomorrow- and he almost certainly will- he will almost certainly be booed again. Rosberg was booed at Silverstone- and there will be a mixture of boos and cheers from a mixture of English and German people at Spa.

      2. @huhhii Personally I think booing is acceptable is someone made an attempt to cheat or doing something very questionable. Examples include Rosberg qualifying fiasco in Monaco, Rosberg ramming Hamilton in Austria, Max overly aggressive defense in Hungary. They might not broken the rules, but given podium event is only few minutes after session ends before any official decision I think it’s pretty understandable to boo. However, booing just because racism or because someone winning too much or just because you don’t like someone, that’s a disgrace. Examples like Hamilton in Spain 2007, Vettel in 2013, or actually most of F1 boos. Actually that what the sad state of F1 booing, they boo because they hate the individual or doing something great (winning too much), not what bad things they’ve done.

        1. Sometimes F1 drivers are booed just because they are the main opposition to the driver they like- not because they cheated or did something dangerous or
          underhanded on track; and that is the situation Hamilton and Rosberg are in. In that sense, you are right- that is when it is a disgrace to boo someone. But yes- I didn’t think of it in terms of cheating or underhanded on-track behavior; I guess it is understandable to boo that person. I probably would have booed at Schumacher after what he did at Adelaide ’94 or at Jerez ’97…

        2. @mfreire I don’t think you can separate booing at team sport event and motorsports. Booing is often targeted towards an individual in team sports as well. For example it’s pretty normal to see fans booing for a footballer if he has been filming or if he has for example changed team from home team to away team. And it’s not uncommon to see referees being booed at team sport event. Those individual players and athletes just gotta move on and continue doing their job.

          @sonicslv I agree with you that booing because of racism is totally reprehensible. But I think booing for someone just because you don’t like him is still fine. It belongs to all kinds of sports and I don’t think it can be stopped. Why worry about something that can’t be changed?

          Hamilton showed awesome example in Austria of how to handle the booing crowd. I’m sure all drivers are capable of doing the same, so a thing like this doesn’t deserve all the attention from the journalists. There are more critical flaws in the sport right now.

          1. Wow. I’ve never heard such an arguement in favor of garbage behavior befo

        3. “Examples include Rosberg qualifying fiasco in Monaco, Rosberg ramming Hamilton in Austria, Max overly aggressive defense in Hungary”
          Thays some top banter right here, given these are all race incidents who didn’t get penalised by the stewards (and rightfully so).

          1. I like how he at least took the effort to come up with one that didn’t include Rosberg,…

        4. @ Sonics
          The problem with your statement regarding cheating is that it is all a matter of perception. An English fan will probably boo
          Rosberg for his action in Austria, while a Rosberg fan (do they exsist?) thinks: “why did that Hamilton bloke nit avoid my favourite driver, Rosberg avoided him a view races ago when he did more or less the same”. There is no absolute truth in most discussions. Just look at most of the international polls regarding the battle between Verstappen en Raikkonen. Most of them were pretty close. Apparently you thought: what Ves did was dangerous. I thought: finally someone on the track with the balls to fight. Who is right? Just depends on your personal opinion.

          1. I never implied an absolute stance of what correct or not in my example, just situation where booing is understandable. Those events spark debate everywhere and both side has good point. People who boo Verstappen is booing his actions, not booing because he is Verstappen, and of course there also some who cheer him for that same action.

      3. Michael Brown (@)
        31st July 2016, 13:28

        My thoughts on booing are Dale Earnhardt’s: “At least they’re making noise.”

    3. F1 is ruthless.
      Can’t help feel sorry for Kvyat though.
      Yes Red Bull were right to put Max in his car performance wise but he just looks destroyed. It’s cringeworthy.

      His picture could be placed in the dictionary describing hero to zero.

      Got a podium, mucked up, got demoted (being fired) and finding out the guy who replaced you has won a race in your car. He’s hit rock bottom and only falling deeper it seems.

    4. I feel sorry for Kvyat. I get the impression that, since the start of this season, the red bull teams have had no confidence in him, and have failed to support him. It’s a big disappointment, Kvyat might not be a true great of the future, but he is, and has demonstrated to be, a good driver. Some of these drivers, including Kvyat, are so young and have so little relative life experience, I get the impression it’s almost like being at school or university: if you fail to support them, if you have no confidence, if you put them down mentally, they will not perform.

      Red Bull need to get behind him in order to see the results come through.

      1. I agree. They promoted him too early, when they were in a bind and then they gave him a very bad car (or Renault delivered a very bad engine). Now they promoted Max and finally have the car in a good place. It must be very frustrating for him to see them get podiums, while he is getting kicked out of f1 before he had the time to actually develop. It can’t be good for his spirit and concentration. He is only 22. Most people of his age are still in a junior series. I hope he will find a nice racing gig after this.

        1. ColdFly F1 (@)
          31st July 2016, 9:41

          I’m not sure that not promoting him would have been better for him. @thetick
          It would have been a tough 2015 against either VES or SAI in an STR. VES probably would have beaten him, and SAI would have shown sufficient progress to be level with KVY at the end of 2015. Therefore, it it could have been your typical 2-year STR career.
          And yes there is more pressure in the main team, but drivers like HAM, Vandoorne, VES show that they can handle it. And even KVY showed last year that the pressure of the main did not seem to be the limiting factor; it is probably his talent which is the limiting factor.

      2. If Kvyat loses out to Sainz in the second half of the season and Gasly takes the GP2 title it’s almost certain he’ll lose his drive.

        I feel sorry for him but that’s the well known grinder of the Red Bull young driver program.

    5. Sorry. You were NOT qui

    6. The talent that got him into RB doesn’t magically disappear…the Marko favour that has disappear, l wish him the best of luck in motorsport..and misfortune to his evil doers…

      1. Was that talent there in the first place @nosehair? Kvyat got promoted because Vettel decided to jump ship and RB had none else to replace him. Was Verstappen or Sainz around at the time, we wouldn’t be talking about Kvyat now.

        1. @x303 LMAO @ what talent…RB didn’t have to promote TR driver? are you serious?

          1. @nosehair
            Vettel was supposed to remain at RB and Kvyat at TR. Vettel surprise departure forced Marko to promote a TR driver, which was not his initial plan.
            That’s why I’m questioning Kvyat talent: he’s a decent driver but was demoted as soon as Marko could. His role was to hold the seat for Verstappen basically.

    7. If $ochi can have a race, I imagine there is $ome way that Daniil can have a $eat.

      1. There are other Ru$$ian drivers to pay their way into F1- $ergey $iroktin is most likely to be that Russian driver. But I still think Kvyat was quite a bit better than Vitaly Petrov…

        1. Yeah I’m actually rooting for the guy a little, but I suspect the reason why he was demoted wasn’t track-performance so much as inability to work with a team, and his current dour attitude isn’t exactly going to keep his mechanics working cheerfully all night. Good drivers also have to be good leaders, seems to me, and part of that is simply lifting everyone’s spirits. He needs to at least fake a good attitude until he finds one. Winners remain cheerful during slumps because they believe in their hearts that it’s just a matter of time until the good breaks start again: they’re due. Losers wallow in slumps because they worry the good breaks were never truly theirs to begin with. So I hope he gets his legs back under him in some form or fashion, even if it’s not in F1.

          1. Not everyone has the emotional strength to keep a positive spirit after a major setback in their life, especially at 22.

            I know cause I’m the same age.

            It’s up to the Red Bull family to help him get on top of it and keep his motivation high by saying he can reverse the stats in the second part of the season. Grosjean went to a psychologist after his 2012 season and it did wonders for him.

            1. I agree. Those with that emotional strength are sometimes called “champion.” The vast majority of people lack that strength at that age. Or ever. I’m not criticizing him – nobody’s ever called me a champion anything other than a-hole or something similar :) – and I wish him all success and happiness. A trip to Grosjean’s shrink might be exactly what’s needed.

    8. It is shame because Kvyat had the same time deficit to Ricciardo in qualifying as Verstappen has now.
      He is a good driver, very similar to Grosjean in my opinion.

    9. Diego Orionte
      31st July 2016, 1:33

      On HAM and the halo… It suprises me that this comes from the guy that said to the other drivers to grow a pair, that it wasn’t admissible in F1 and that if they went through with it they needed to make it optional so that he could dismiss it.

      He’s was stuck with his “old school” racer fantasy, but he’s also extremely influenceable. 1 video was all it took to go from one extreme to the other.

    10. Ben (@scuderia29)
      31st July 2016, 1:57

      It wasn’t very long ago Hamilton claimed “I will not be using the halo on my car” and now there’s a delay on introducing the halo “I just hope no one gets hurt in that time, including myself” . He’s a walking contradiction, does he want improved safety or not?

      1. People can change their mind. It’s only a contradiction if you’re inconsistent.

    11. “I was quickest, quickest, quickest and…”
      Umm.. in which session?

      1. Q1 & Q2.

        1. MG421982 (@)
          31st July 2016, 8:28

          Wow! So, losers now have their own… winning share?!? Jeeeezzzz…….!!

        2. Q1?? ONLY Q2, which is ONE of SIX sessions. And his Q3 lap was awful considering Rosberg’s fuel load.

      2. I think Hamilton is referring to his last qualifying lap @sravan-pe. He was faster in the first sector and then bined it in the second sector.

    12. @sravanpe That was my point earlier, but the gods didn’t let me finish my sentence.

      1. Hahhaa… :D

    13. So massa also collects rivals helmets .. I thought Alonso was the only one among the drivers who did this

      1. I wouldn’t be surprised if Piquet, Jr.’s helmet would not be part of that collection…

    14. The idea of Esteban Ocon in F1 makes me very, very happy. The idea of Lance Stroll in F1 repulses me to my very core.

    15. If we take a look at Toro Rosso’s driver policy, it shows that every driver that cannot be promoted to Red Bull in no more than 3 seasons, had to leave the team, and usually F1 as well. Making his debut in 2014, this years end will surely mean Kvyats exit, even though he had more than a season with Red Bull. With his frustration and bad luck in the Toro Rosso seat, the board will we able to explain his more than possible departure unfortunately.

      Klien: 2004 (Jaguar) + 2005 (Red Bull) + 2006 (Red Bull) = 3 (would be able to return to F1 later. Klien is a strange start of this list, as he never drove for Toro Rosso, but I believe he is the very first representation of what Red Bull/Toro Rosso had in mind about their driver development programme)
      Liuzzi: 2005 (Red Bull) + 2006 + 2007 = 3 (would be able to return to F1 later)
      Speed: 2006 + 2007 = 2
      Vettel: 2007 + 2008 = 2 (promoted)
      Bourdais: 2008 + 2009 = 2
      Buemi: 2009 + 2010 + 2011 = 3
      Alguersuari: 2009 + 2010 + 2011 = 3
      Ricciardo: (2011 with Hispania might count as well) + 2012 + 2013 = (2) 3 (promoted)
      Vergne: 2012 + 2013 + 2014 = 3
      Kvyat: 2014 + 2015 (Red Bull) + 2016 = 3
      Verstappen: 2015 + 2016 (promoted)
      Sainz: 2015 + 2016

      Two more consequences can be seen from the list:
      1. most of those Toro Rosso drivers that weren’t promoted to Red Bull, couldn’t get a drive in F1 any more
      2. anyone whose Toro Rosso teammate got promoted to Red Bull, has never been promoted himself as well (which can be a threat to Sain at the end of next year…)

      Although I believe that Verstappen is a greater talent, Kvyat is still a decent driver. Kvyat most possibly couldn’t have won the Spanish GP in a Red Bull, meanwhile Verstappen might have done better than 10th in a Toro Rosso. But we will never know this for sure. Until Kvyat is the only Russian driver on the grid, he might still worthy to be employed considering the huge Russian market, and of course as being a solid driver.

      1. I think both Sainz and Kvyat are better than drivers were before (Buemi maybe was similarly good) and both are good enough to stay in F1, Sainz especially. But yeah, it’s a harsh system. That being said, of course, the Red Bull system is one of the few ways in which a driver gets to F1 solely on talent these days.

      2. I still can’t help shake the feeling they made a huge mistake by promoting Kvyat instead of Vergne in 2014. Moving him back to Toro Rosso is basically an acknowledgement that Kvyat wasn’t ready for a top seat.

        Meanwhile I think Sainz might be the first Toro Rosso driver to get a fourth season in F1 despite not moving up to Red Bull.

        1. @paeschli: couldn’t agree more. a Ricciardo-Vergne setup in 2015 could have been really something. and I also hope that Sainz would not be wasted as the Ricciardo-Vertappen pairing seems to be long lasting.

        2. @paeschli @andrewt While I do think that Vergne in the wet in a Red Bull would have been something special, I think it’s become apparent with hindsight that Verstappen should have started at Red Bull in 2015, with Kvyat doing 3 years at STR. However, that would have seemed so outrageous at the time that not even Marko or the Verstappens would probably have gone along with that!

          I agree on Sainz, unless he gets poached by someone or Marko signs a junior like Giovinazzi. Who else could do it? Albon? They never re-sign former juniors..

      3. @andrewt I think it’s also worth remembering that Kvyat is still just 22. He is younger than Stoffel Vandoorne after all and we are still waiting for his full-time debut. 22 is simply not an age to be kicked out of F1. He has so many years in racing ahead of him, and has many years before he hits his peak.

        1. @craig-o a good point, agreed. i also would like to say, that being a development team, Toro Rosso employs very young drivers, that are also very young when their day of departure comes. Alguersuari was 21 when his day came by, so I wouldn’t be surprised by anything. Also adding, that Kvyat seems to deserve a place in F1, maybe not a Red Bull seat, but he certainly proved to be good enough for a Toro Rosso seat, but has to show something during the last 9 races of this season to be even considered for 2017.

      4. Sirotkin is likely to win GP2 – he along with Gasly and Giovinazzi should really be in F1 next year. Now Gasly will be at STR, but where Sirotkin can go at the moment is a bit unclear. Sauber? Renault? @andrewt

        1. @fastiesty Sirotkin was (is?) an affiliated driver of Sauber, but I believe the point is for him to bring in more wealthy sponsors than Ericsson, Nasr, Perez or whoever Sauber and Renault seek to sign next year.

          1. @andrewt He’s a Renault test driver this year, doing the Sochi FP1, but it seems Ocon is ahead of him in that queue. No doubt he will be Russia’s F1 driver from next year, given his father’s state links, but you’re right, it’s whether they can outbid someone to actually get a seat. Manor?

    16. ILuvSoundtracks (@)
      31st July 2016, 9:33

      I’m totally pessimistic over that Kvyat-Vettel collision at Russia two months ago. I used to like Kvyat, but it totally stopped after Russia…

      1. i believe these were the exact thoughts of dr. Marko as well…

    17. ColdFly F1 (@)
      31st July 2016, 12:03

      @keithcollantine, why did you delete this comment?????????

    18. ColdFly F1 (@)
      31st July 2016, 15:41

      you better explain me why this one is not acceptable @keithcollantine.
      I enjoy this site, support it financially, and keep myself from attacking other individuals.
      I’ve mentioned it before, there are lately more disparaging comments towards others on this site. We seem to be declining in the quality of the comment(ers) recently.

    19. ColdFly F1 (@)
      31st July 2016, 16:47

      I don’t like the booing either; but we should get off our high horse(s).

      1. ColdFly F1 (@)
        31st July 2016, 16:48

        There is lots of disparaging comments by certain ‘fans’ on this site as well. Nowadays especially the HamFanAntiRos crew against the AlwaysAntiHam crew, and vice versa.
        I hope the real F1Fanatics amongst us stand up and discourage such behaviour.

      2. ColdFly F1 (@)
        31st July 2016, 16:48

        There is lots of disparaging comments by certain ‘fans’ on this site as well. Nowadays especially the HamFanAntiRos crew against the AlwaysAntiHam crew, and vice versa.
        I hope the real F1Fanatics amongst us stand up and discourage such behaviour.

    Comments are closed.