FIA confirms tyre restrictions for Qatar GP forcing drivers to pit three times

64 comments on “FIA confirms tyre restrictions for Qatar GP forcing drivers to pit three times”

1. 

   Indian F1 fan
   8th October 2023, 14:22

   bye bye F1, I had good time watching you
   Liberty media ,I can’t handle Americanization anymore
   1. 

      Facts&Stats
      8th October 2023, 18:12

      I’m not sure what this has to do with America (except for the ‘z’) of Liberty; Pirelli has its roots in Italy (formally a Dutch company), and FIA is based in France with a SA president.

      PS I guess Keith is relieved the WDC got sorted out during the Sprint race :p
2. 

   MichaelN
   8th October 2023, 14:24

   Somewhere in Kyōbashi, a few people are having a big smirk on their face.

   If this is what needs to be done to run the race, then fine. But this can’t go without serious consequences; it’s embarrassing for all involved.
   1. 

      falken (@falken)
      8th October 2023, 14:38

      And yet, guess who owns the only other possible supplier when the current Pirelli deal ends?
      Why, it’s Pirelli…
      1. 

         Coventry Climax
         8th October 2023, 17:23

         @falken
         Bridgestone is not owned by Pirelli.
   2. 

      Imre (@f1mre)
      8th October 2023, 14:58

      10 punctures would have been more embarassing. 14 cars going to the pits to retire after the formation lap would have been more embarassing and people would be talking about that even 18 years after that happened.
   3. 

      Jere (@jerejj)
      8th October 2023, 15:07

      MichaelN I initially assumed the Kyōbashi reference is about Bridgestone’s HQ or founding location, but apparently not.
      1. 

         Coventry Climax
         8th October 2023, 17:25

         Wikipedia on Bridgestone:

         Headquarters: Kyōbashi, Tokyo, Japan
3. 

   Armchair Expert (@armchairexpert)
   8th October 2023, 14:35

   Only this weekend?
4. 

   BLS (@brightlampshade)
   8th October 2023, 14:42

   I do part wonder if this is a desperate attempt to create interest in the race for the Netflix contingent
   1. 

      David BR (@david-br)
      8th October 2023, 15:02

      @brightlampshade I can’t be bothered with Netflix anymore (haven’t even seen the most recent DtS) but I’m happy for anything that makes the upcoming dead rubber races more interesting (pun not initially intended).
   2. 

      Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
      9th October 2023, 6:55

      @brightlampshade It’s a desperate attempt to get the race held at all.
5. 

   S
   8th October 2023, 14:46

   If the teams/drivers could be trusted to not drive over the kerbs at speeds approaching 300kph with tons of downforce on their cars for their own safety, this wouldn’t be an issue at all. Given their lack of acceptance and respect for track limits, everyone (Pirelli and the FIA included) know full well they’ll still be out there damaging the tyres and not accepting the consequences.
   This result is inevitable – and the most embarrassing aspect of it is that the teams will simply keep pointing their fingers at Pirelli and the FIA while accepting no responsibility themselves.
   1. 

      notagrumpyfan
      8th October 2023, 18:20

      Maybe the right solution would be that after three track limit violations a driver is forced to change tyres the next lap.
   2. 

      Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
      9th October 2023, 6:56

      According to the Saturday data, staying within track boundaries didn’t appear to help.
6. 

   joshj81
   8th October 2023, 14:49

   FIA are damned if they do, damned if they don’t. I was at Indy 2005, if memory services, the FIA gave the teams a vote to modify the layout by adding a tire walled chicane. Well you can guess who voted yes and no. Since Bridgestone was king back then, they won the vote. Even though there were no more incidents the remaining of the weekend, we’ll never know if it was the right call by the teams or the FIA. I applaud the FIA and F1 for erroring on the side of safety. As long as they make updates to the track before their next visit, I say we can call it lessons learned, nothing to be angry about and just move on.
   1. 

      Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
      9th October 2023, 7:01

      No, the FIA flat banned a tyre-walled chicane, because that would have required re-homologation. It didn’t think to do a 10-minute familiarisation session (as the FIA did this time) to get round it, as it had previously done when it rained before Monaco 1996 and was within its powers.

      What the teams didn’t unanimously agree to do was let Michelin try to do the race as a non-points event, with an obligation upon it to go through the pit lane every lap. Peter Sauber (whose team was on Michelins and was the sole dissenter in the Michelin teams; I think Jordan was the only team on the Bridgestone side to accept) noted there was a safety issue with this, because if a Bridgestone driver was behind a Michelin driver going into the final turn, the geometry of that particular pit entry would have more or less guaranteed a crash with certain combinations of cars (this was also before pit entry lines became inviolable).
7. 

   Imre (@f1mre)
   8th October 2023, 14:55

   It’s going to be a mostly flat out race with 15 lap stints. The 20-lap tyre rule with three mandatory pitstops would have given teams more tactical possibilities. Everyone will pit within 5 laps of each other. It’s going to be different from the usual at least. Also more room for error during pitstops and during flat out phases.
   1. 

      BLS (@brightlampshade)
      8th October 2023, 14:58

      I expect Max has already requested the 18/18/18/3 strategy, ending on softs for his obligatory fastest lap!
   2. 

      NM
      8th October 2023, 15:01

      The amount of fuel will prevent a flatout race
      1. 

         Jere (@jerejj)
         8th October 2023, 15:06

         NM Fuel flow limit rather than amount.
         1. 

            Dusty
            8th October 2023, 15:54

            Wrong
         2. 

            drmouse (@drmouse)
            8th October 2023, 17:02

            How on earth would the fuel flow limit prevent a flat out rate? That’s like saying the rev or displacement limits prevent a flat out race.
         3. 

            Facts&Stats
            8th October 2023, 18:21

            ??
   3. 

      Ciaran (@ciaran)
      8th October 2023, 15:03

      Ironically it makes for more of a ‘sprint’ race than yesterday! Though I’m fearful that if this race goes well, it would encourage the FIA to make this a permanent rule.
      1. 

         lucifer (@lucifer)
         8th October 2023, 15:15

         yip, that’s the scary part
      2. 

         SteveP
         8th October 2023, 15:24

         Ironically it makes for more of a ‘sprint’ race than yesterday! Though I’m fearful that if this race goes well, it would encourage the FIA to make this a permanent rule.

         I did say the other day that Domenicali would be having fits of ecstasy about stringing a set of sprints end to end and labelling it as a GP.
         Five sprints in one weekend? This is not Netflix, it’s Disney Junior…
         1. 

            PacificPR (@streydt)
            8th October 2023, 17:40

            Haha, nice one. Before you know it we are all cheering for real-live version of Mario Kart.
      3. 

         Edvaldo
         8th October 2023, 16:01

         that’s a sure thing. Just remember the Canada 2010 race in which the tyres weren’t lasting 10 laps was the basis for the competition for at least the next 3 seasons.

         4 pitstops was almost mandatory in 2011~13.

         Let’s hope this fails miserably because i’m sure they’ll be doing this ibn the future if it works out today.
   4. 

      I luv chicken
      8th October 2023, 15:44

      Glad that I don’t have to keep a manual lapchart.
8. 

   Zann (@zann)
   8th October 2023, 15:01

   57 laps, 3*18=54

   so, I suppose allowing 19 laps would’ve been even worse!
9. 

   Jere (@jerejj)
   8th October 2023, 15:02

   Drivers wouldn’t necessarily pit on the same lap even with the initially suggested 20-lap maximum any more than with 18, but interesting.
   All in all, a rare occasion when everyone knows beforehand which lap drivers will pit for the first time at the very latest, with that being lap 18.
   1. 

      Simon
      8th October 2023, 23:04

      Number 3, Cup of tea
10. 

    ianhaycox (@ianhaycox)
    8th October 2023, 15:04

    This may advantage those that retired from the sprint early having more tyres with less laps.

    If a used tyre has already done 10 laps, are only another 8 available. If so, some are going to need more than 3 stops.
    1. 

       danarcha (@danarcha)
       8th October 2023, 16:22

       That’s correct. The article has been updated with every set of tyres for each driver and how many laps they can do on each set. Looks like everyone has enough tyres that can go 17 or 18 laps that four stops won’t be necessary.
11. 

    Edvaldo
    8th October 2023, 15:07

    in which way this isn’t worse than Indianapolis 2005?

    Back then at least there was a tyre war and both manufacturers were pushing their technology and taking risks. Pirelli on the other hand is just crappy. Has been since 2011.

    Their inability to provide quality material has been influencing the outcome of the competition for more than a decade already.
    1. 

       Jim (@jimgogo)
       8th October 2023, 16:07

       I don’t know why they keep putting themselves forward as F1 tyre suppliier at every given opportunity, none of it can be good advertising for their tyres. It’s funny because I always remember my dad telling me how Pirelli tyres were rubbish and didn’t last back in the 90’s and that was before they even became the F1 tyre supplier.
       1. 

          MichaelN
          8th October 2023, 20:35

          I don’t know why they keep putting themselves forward as F1 tyre suppliier

          Pirelli is probably looking at car owners that doesn’t really do a whole lot of research and just buys a ‘good tyre’, at which point the connection to F1 and the name recognition should do the rest. Folks who care a lot will know that a Pirelli tyre they might buy for their car has nothing to do with whatever Pirelli makes for F1, so it’s largely irrelevant for them (although surprises like this might lead to some raised eyebrows).

          And for the leased fleet… well, in the B2B market a few business trips to an F1 weekend can go a long way.
12. 

    osnola
    8th October 2023, 15:21

    So Lewis has fresh new softs available. Starting on soft, taking the lead. Creating a gap of around 6 seconds, pitting lap 10.
    Interesting possibility for several drivers..
    4 sets of tires makes it a real eventful race.
    1. 

       Jimmy Cliff
       8th October 2023, 15:34

       Why would Lewis take the lead, Max has a set of softs with just 1 lap on them. Also do not see Lewis pull a 6 second lead and if he pits after 10 laps (if the softs last that long with heavy fuel load) he will fall back into heavy traffic.
       Separately of he runs the softs for just 10 laps he will need to go to hards or back to softs later as his 3 sets of mediums can only cover 37 laps, he has 1 new and 2 used with 7 and 10 laps already done.

       After their 1 set of new mediums Lewis, Russell, Sainz and Leclerc likely will not go on mediums again as their best used tire already did 7 laps. Max has 2 set of used mediums but each only did 3 laps.
    2. 

       elchinero (@elchinero)
       8th October 2023, 16:10

       So, could #44 then leap-frog into the points lead and garner the WDC?
       1. 

          grat
          8th October 2023, 16:23

          Given that the WDC has already been sealed up, that’s a daft comment.

          He could, however, make serious inroads on Perez, and challenge for 2nd in the championship– especially given Perez’s tendency to overdrive his car right into a wall.
          1. 

             SteveP
             8th October 2023, 17:03

             He could, however, make serious inroads on Perez, and challenge for 2nd in the championship– especially given Perez’s tendency to overdrive his car right into a wall.

             I have been saying for many races now that Perez cannot afford to keep leaking points relative to the competition. When I started saying that the nearest was Alonso.
             My calculation at the time was that a relative loss of 7 points per weekend would see him drop out of second before the end of the season. That’s now down to 5 points per weekend to lose 2nd to Hamilton and 8 per weekend to lose 3rd place to Alonso.

             Not an impressive performance in what is far and away the fastest car on the grid.
    3. 

       RomTrain
       8th October 2023, 16:10

       You are already assuming Verstappen again has one of his bad starts? He often stuggles with starts, but with the best car on P1 I would assume he keeps position at start.
       1. 

          osnola
          8th October 2023, 20:00

          You obviously did not follow F1.
    4. 

       DaveW (@dmw)
       8th October 2023, 16:43

       I dont think so. Yesterday the soft tire was done in three laps. Not enough performance to build a strategically relevant gap.
13. 

    Jimmy Cliff
    8th October 2023, 15:24

    Given that the soft isn’t really a racing tire Max is having advantage as his 2 used mediums only have done 3 laps each.

    All top team drivers have 1 new medium and 1 new hard.

    # of laps left on their best 3 sets of medium and soft:
    Max: medium 18+15+15 and soft 17+15+12
    Perez: medium 18+12+12 and soft 18+15+14
    Lewis: medium 18+11+8 and soft 18+17+15
    Russell: medium 18+11+11 and soft 16+15+15
    Sainz: medium 18+11+10 and soft 18+13+13
    Leclerc: medium 18+11+10 and soft 16+14+13
    Norris: medium 18+12+11 and soft 15+15+14
    Perez: medium 18+12+11 and soft 16+15+14
    Alonso: medium 18+13+13 and soft 16+14+14

    Weirdly Leclerc started the sprint on 6 laps old softs while he had 2, 4 and 5 lap old softs available.
    1. 

       Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
       9th October 2023, 7:04

       I think because Ferrari was anticipating this, and also decided its best chance in the sprint was to use soft tyres at the start. At that point, effectively sacrificing the sprint this way was the only option.
14. 

    Mirko710
    8th October 2023, 15:28

    Stroll has a good bank of rubber available… worth a punt
15. 

    Jim (@jimgogo)
    8th October 2023, 15:45

    This isn’t F1 anymore.
16. 

    Dex
    8th October 2023, 15:47

    This race will be a hell to follow and understand everyone’s strategic options. What the heck are they doing with this sport?
17. 

    Ben
    8th October 2023, 15:52

    This could be an absolute mess. So many drivers with only two new sets available! Hamilton and Sainz the quickest drivers who have a new set of each tyre. Stroll could do S-M-M-S on all new tyres! What a pace advantage he could have avoiding the hards all race.

    The rule seems somewhat stupid as any safetycar would throw tyre life into chaos. Someone could box for new hards and end up behind a safety car for 5 laps. Then restart for 8 laps before another 5 lap safetycar. They’d then have to change to a different used set which is probably worse than their current tyres.

    This race won’t be done after lap 1! It’s going to be all over the place.
18. 

    Nulla Pax (@nullapax)
    8th October 2023, 15:53

    It should be up to the teams/drivers if they want to take the risk.
    If the tyre supplier can dictate the rules then who gets the next say … the tea lady?
    1. 

       EffWunFan (@cairnsfella)
       9th October 2023, 0:50

       Yes. Absolutely. Faultless logic, total accuracy, and complete relevance…….. all thrown out the window.
19. 

    Jim (@jimgogo)
    8th October 2023, 15:53

    I wonder if it has anything to do with wanting to artificially improve the entertainment of the race and not just about safety. We all know more pit stops equates to a more exciting race.
20. 

    roadrunner (@roadrunner)
    8th October 2023, 16:19

    Safty Car around 37 would see the whole field into the pits two laps later. Nightmare scenario and an accident waiting to happen. Plus it would give us completely random results like 2007/08.
    1. 

       Bullfrog (@bullfrog)
       8th October 2023, 17:15

       I wonder if Stroll or Sargeant will last that long before the wall jumps out at them?
21. 

    Billys (@bilarxos)
    8th October 2023, 16:22

    If SC appears during the race which is always a possibility in a F1 race, let alone here where already we had 3 SC on 19 laps race.
    Can the drivers and the teams extend their stints further? given the low speeds and the stress on the tyres are low how they will calculate the tyre wear?
    And what about if this happening on 16-18 lap or 34 36 or 50-54?
    Really mess here.
22. 

    grat
    8th October 2023, 16:32

    Pirelli has too much control over the racing, and not nearly enough over their tires.

    They keep raising the PSI– I expect sooner or later, we’ll be running at 60 PSI, with mandatory stops every 10 laps.

    So– just to make sure I understand. Friday, Pirelli determined that there was a problem with the harmonics of the kerbs at turns 12 and 13, so they had the FIA narrow the track for those two turns. Now, they’re mandating maximum number of laps– TO SOLVE THE SAME PROBLEM.

    What next? Raise the PSI by +10? Mandate a maximum speed?

    These guys are giving a really good impression of being completely lost as to what the problem is, and having no idea how to fix it.
    1. 

       SteveP
       8th October 2023, 17:10

       These guys are giving a really good impression of being completely lost as to what the problem is, and having no idea how to fix it.

       They had the opportunity to fix the long-running problems with tyres, but failed when they submitted a bid for the next tyre provision contract.
23. 

    Sumedh
    8th October 2023, 16:56

    So VSC and SC laps count towards the maximum of 18?
24. 

    Coventry Climax
    8th October 2023, 17:37

    I wish you all a lot of ‘fun’, but I’m not going to watch this farce. First time in around 50 years. Well done Pirelli!
25. 

    Tommy C (@tommy-c)
    8th October 2023, 18:03

    Indy 2.0 I guess. At least there’ll be a race but wow.
26. 

    chimaera2003 (@chimaera2003)
    8th October 2023, 18:06

    Maybe naivety on my behalf, but isn’t the fundamental root cause of this the embedded culture of allowing drivers to go outside the lines as long as they ‘don’t gain a lasting advantage’ (or whatever phraseology they use).

    If the culture was stay inside the lines at all costs then this may never have occurred in the first place as no one would be running over the pyramid curves. Surely some sort of automatic ERS harvesting/discharging or DRS enablement penalty if you go outside the lines would resolve this straight away. I don’t remember watching any other sport where the defined area of play is subjective by the officials.

    Whilst Pirelli wouldn’t be entirely blameless if a deep dive formal investigation was to occur. I have some empathy with them as the loads required to be tolerated (900kg car taking corners at 180mph+ is massive) and the fact they can’t just develop the best tyre they can due to F1 deg specifications means they will be going blind. Just unliterally saying that Bridgestone would do an unambiguously better job is at best a hostage to fortune situation.

Comments are closed.