In the round-up: Hamilton expects more from McLaren next year.
Links
Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:
Hamilton ‘waits’ to challenge Red Bulls (BBC)
“I do think we will have to wait until next year before our car is as good as theirs. We’ll see.”
CVC urged to address F1 bribery allegations (FT, registration required)
“Investors and F1 managers are starting to question CVC’s conduct, saying that the group appeared ‘paralysed’. They are also said to be angry that Donald Mackenzie, the private equity group’s management partner responsible for the deal, is not willing to replace Mr Ecclestone as chief executive of Formula One Management. Mr Mackenzie seems to think his continuing involvement is important for F1’s valuation in a possible sale.”
“CarltonJefferis [says] viewers need FOM TV graphics – we know, we supply the detail in real time, they are working on it.”
Via the F1 Fanatic live Twitter app
Sauber says keeping sixth is realistic
James Key: “I think we’ve had a particularly bad weekend because we haven’t suddenly taken a second per lap off the car.”
A special race in Hungary (Ferrari)
Fernando Alonso: “At the Hungaroring, the weather should be more in keeping with summer, which is no bad thing as I’ve had enough of the cold and damp we experienced in England and Germany! That goes not just for me, but also for our car: it would definitely work better in temperatures higher than the 13?é?? we had last Sunday.”
“And then the race was over. I could tell because all the McLaren mechanics ran to the pit wall and started waving and jumping up and down. I was stuck inside the garage. Still trying to be impartial. Still feeling this race had somehow passed me by even though I happened to be at its technical epicentre. I knew something – and yet I knew nothing at all.”
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Comment of the day
Supernicebob’s thoughts on this weekend’s race:
It’s a tough one to call isn’t it? Last year’s form clearly points towards Red Bull, but recent form backs Ferrari and McLaren.
Indeed the biggest question mark is over McLaren. I’d like to think that they have turned a corner toward more consistent and competitive performance, but I suspect those low temperatures did play into their hands.
Ferrari, and let’s be honest when most people refer to them it’s more accurate to say just Alonso, certainly have been right up there for several races now and should be in contention yet again.
It will be very interesting to see how Vettel comes back from a tough home race. If he can respond with a resounding win then that will probably answer a lot of questions surrounding him and more than likely put the championship to bed too. However, if Webber out-paces him again then it could show that things are beginning to get to him.
Supernicebob
From the forum
Eggry wonders how many more competitive seasons this year’s top drivers have in front of them.
Happy birthday!
Happy birthday to Big Galah and Solo!
On this day in F1
Nigel Mansell won the German Grand Prix 20 years ago to cut Ayrton Senna’s championship lead to eight points.
Senna ran out of fuel on the last lap and fell to seventh, out of the points. Riccardo Patrese completed a one-two finish for Williams with Jean Alesi third for Ferrari.
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
28th July 2011, 0:09
I have my doubts about Mclaren in 2012. Last year they were looking strong and they started the year quite a long way behind Red Bull (even if they were second best). Same happened to Ferrari, from title contenders and good pre-season form yet they were miles behind at Melbourne.
Icthyes (@icthyes)
28th July 2011, 0:34
I think if they carry on evolving this concept instead of a brand new car for the fourth year in a row, it might be closer.
Eggry (@eggry)
28th July 2011, 4:01
I think new exhaust rule certainly hit their exotic sidepod…
BasCB (@bascb)
28th July 2011, 7:48
I agree with that notion. They started with a largely new car in 2009, did the same in 2010 for its predecessors uncompetativeness, and then did the same for 2011 as their car had been constructed completely for maximum use of the DDD, that is now banned.
If they continue with this years car, I think they should be able to get more from it and be more consistant at least.
T-Bone
28th July 2011, 9:08
It always strikes me how defeatist their mindset is – they always talk about ‘closing the gap’, ‘catching the Red Bulls’ or ‘being able to compete for the front row’. Now they talk of matching them next season when who knows how quick Red Bull (or Ferrari for that matter) will be?
In the last two years McLaren have always seemed to take the big thing from the previous season and make it as extreme as possible in the hope this is the one thing that will bring them overall pace – the most extreme double diffuser in 2010, the most extreme blown exhaust in 2011. Were it not for a decent KERS or F-duct papering over the cracks (and excluding JB’s drives in changeable conditions), I doubt they would have won at all in the last two years. What next for 2012 – the most extreme DRS? I hope not.
Surely a team of their prestige and stature should be aiming to be in front from the off, rather than playing catch up and relying on wins that are too few and far between because the conditions or track have suited them. For the most part, the Red Bull is competitive at every track and in all conditions so that’s what they should be aiming for (that’s what they had in 2008).
I really hope that the MP4-27 is a more complete package rather than relying on one key feature for all its performance. Sadly, I think this would mean a another new car from the ground up next year.
Lee
28th July 2011, 9:20
I think the opposite is true. It seems as if they concentrate on too many innovations and end up struggling to work out which one of those is causing the issues.
Robbie
28th July 2011, 14:46
T-Bone…have to agree with you…my first reaction to LH’s quote is that their target should be to be better than the Red Bulls, not just be as good as them…and of course it is a moving target, so they might have to be better than the Red Bulls currently are, just to match them next year. So just as Red Bull is proving this year, Mac needs to be THE car to beat next year…that applies to all teams of course. They all need to strive to be THE car to beat.
That said, even having a team or two matching Red Bull next year will make for a great season and prevent a runaway by one driver from the start of the season.
JCost (@jcost)
28th July 2011, 7:26
Actually I have no idea how 2012 will be. Eventually Ferrai will be the car to beat, or Red Bull, or McLaren or even Renault.
All I know is that Red Bull will not be there forever. Newey has been beaten before.
Klaas (@klaas)
28th July 2011, 7:32
Renault? Pahlease…
JCost (@jcost)
28th July 2011, 10:41
Just wanted to point that it’s such a long shot to make predictions for 2012…
alex
28th July 2011, 12:30
By Schumacher, many times!
patrickl
29th July 2011, 10:00
By Rory Byrne …
tata
29th July 2011, 2:16
i don’t think so. I hot a feeling that with the advantage and the lead the red bulls have ,they are already working and putting more time,money,resources in the next year’s car than the maccas and the ferraris.
TommyB (@tommyb89)
28th July 2011, 0:17
Super nice comment bob!
BasCB (@bascb)
28th July 2011, 7:49
:-D
supernicebob (@supernicebob)
28th July 2011, 13:10
Hehe. Cheers!
damonsmedley (@damonsmedley)
28th July 2011, 17:28
It’s the username that won him the prize, not the comment itself! :P Only kidding, very well written. I do hope things are getting to Vettel, because if they aren’t, we’re going to have a very boring championship.
sato113 (@sato113)
28th July 2011, 1:00
just for fun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L25n71-oUG4
Cornflakes
28th July 2011, 1:52
haha brilliant. Love the gridwalks!
Ella (@ella)
28th July 2011, 4:29
Loved it! Haha, I loved Martin trying to work out how to get Naomi Campbell’s attention…
damonsmedley (@damonsmedley)
28th July 2011, 17:38
Thanks for posting! I hadn’t seen that! I love Martin. :D
Bernard (@bernard)
28th July 2011, 1:10
source
Daniel Thomas (@iamdanthomas)
28th July 2011, 2:20
I thought the brevity of the anthem gave me a genuinely objective reason for supporting Hamilton over Vettel – the German anthem is much longer and therefore much more tedious. When Hamilton or Button win everyone’s a winner!
Cacarella (@cacarella)
28th July 2011, 2:53
I actually commented about this during the podium celebrations but I was more happy that a Brit won driving for a British team, One anthem and onto the CHAMPAGNNNNNNE!!!!
Cacarella (@cacarella)
28th July 2011, 2:55
oh, and I forgot to add anything is better than the German and Austrian funeral marches.
No offense to anyone from those countries of course. ;)
TheBrav3
28th July 2011, 4:38
The reason the anthem is longer for other teams/drivers is because for instance vettel is a german driver the team is austrian when they win 2 anthems german and austrian are played one after the other. Lewis hamilton+mclaren are classed as english hence when they win only one round of the anthem plays for driver and team because it’s the same anthem would be nice if they played it twice but thems the rules.
marc
28th July 2011, 5:42
Actually I was surprised too on last sunday when they were on podium,coz..I didnt hear british national anthem….I didnt know was that short ….
BasCB (@bascb)
28th July 2011, 7:57
As noted by TheBrav3, the biggest difference is between Hamilton hearing 1 anthem and Vettel, or Alonso, getting 2 of them.
The “Deutchlandlied” verion commonly played is only about 10 seconds longer than what Hamilton got (source). Maybe the best solution would be to play the anthem for both the driver and the team as well i.e. having it 2 times.
vodka an orange
28th July 2011, 11:35
do me a favour!!! Most anthems sound like a funeral march from most countries!! Id rather hear NO NATIONAL ANTHEMS at all for anything!! Its a load of nationalistic nonsense. And its what fuels racism. We are born where we are born, but we are then socially programmed by politicians and parenting to then wander the Earth for the rest of our lives waving “our flag” as a symbol of our love and loyalty to a Monarch we will most probably never meet and to a piece of land that said Monarch expects us to die for to defend. And all we get is a dreary song! They can keep it! #:)
njw
28th July 2011, 13:32
national anthems “fuels racism” – really?
Adrian J
28th July 2011, 13:52
I don’t need a monarch or a national anthem to instil national pride in me or to inspire me to be willing to defend my country if called for.
British and proud!!
Spaulding (@spaulding)
28th July 2011, 14:16
Let me assure you, racism was around A LONG TIME before the concept of nationalism was even a gleam in some fool’s eye. Racism has been going on since the beginning of time, nationalism had it’s birth c. 1770 CE (at the aboslute earliest).
Cornflakes
28th July 2011, 1:53
It would be scary to wonder how good Alonso would be in a Red Bull if he can do so well in a underperforming Renault/Ferrari/Whatever he’s driving!
TheBrav3
28th July 2011, 4:39
Obviously how ever good he would be he wouldn’t be as good as hamilton :P
Rob2
28th July 2011, 7:14
Yeah because Lewis is oh so consistent….
JCost (@jcost)
28th July 2011, 7:32
Alonso and Hamilton were team mates, so we have a benchmark, don’t we?
I think the rookie took that one…
Klaas (@klaas)
28th July 2011, 7:50
Actually Kimi took that one… Lewis and Alonso finished equal on points, even on wins. One also have to take in account the conditions these drivers raced: Lewis had the full moral support of the team while the team “was racing Fernando”. I say both drivers are more or less equal in terms of skills. When I try to compare them I don’t see any qualities Lewis has over Alonso but the latter is more consistent.
Klaas (@klaas)
28th July 2011, 7:34
+1 ;)
JCost (@jcost)
28th July 2011, 10:54
Leave Kimi out of this (He won because Massa let him pass). I’m saying that the 2-times world champion failed to beat a rookie in the sister-car.
Alonso end up complaining about getting different treatment which is ridiculous, once financially the team was paying him much more money and Santander was McLaren’s main sponsor and they did not want to risk losing that good money.
And why does Rob is considering (I guess) Alonso more “consistent” than Lewis, I guess a trip to “Stats land” will not confirm that, I’d say it’s just another urban myth created by Spanish media…
BasCB (@bascb)
28th July 2011, 12:11
JCost – and therewith he proved Alonso’s point that it would have been wiser to choose one of them to take the championship!
Klaas (@klaas)
28th July 2011, 14:13
JCost – About the sponsorship – there was no proof anywhere that Santander would leave McLaren along with Alonso and even if they did they could get a lot of money from another sources because the British rookie champion would be a sponsor’s dream.
Here we are in stats land – Alonso in his first 5 years of F1 racing (only 2 in a top car) managed to win 2 championships. Hamilton in his first 5 years barely took 1 championship (although in 4 of them he was driving a top car) and blew away another one due to his inconsistency (see my comment on the next page for details).
daykind
28th July 2011, 16:09
Agreed. I hate this argument “Hamilton beat Alonso in his first season.”
He didn’t. He finished level on points with him. The last time I checked, that’s not beating.
Icthyes (@icthyes)
28th July 2011, 22:49
If you want to get technical about it, he scored the same amount of points with better best results (countback), so yeh, that’s beating ;)
alex
28th July 2011, 12:35
maybe he would have passed petrov last year in a RB. :)
Using his own words, he may not be the fastest, but he is consistent:
http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/driver/1205.html
Fixy (@)
28th July 2011, 16:19
Three car teams – Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel in the Red Bull. This would be the closest fight ever and we could judge the drivers much more easily.
Gridlock
28th July 2011, 2:03
It is noticeable how short the version of our anthem they play is, especially compared to the Italian or Austrian anthems (Milton Keynes being in Austria of course..)
Cacarella (@cacarella)
28th July 2011, 2:35
Not too sure I like this comment from Lewis.
Sure it’s kind of taken out of context but this is the sort of thing you say in the off-season or later in the year, not at the halfway point. I’d think the team needs a bit more motivation and leadership instead of a shrug and a ‘we’ll get em next year!’ kind of attitude. Especially considering they’re second in the constructors championship.
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
28th July 2011, 2:53
Maybe he’s also saying: “with a car half as good as theirs, we’re able to beat them”. Thus meaning the RBR guys are rubbish :P.
Todfod (@todfod)
28th July 2011, 6:45
When did he say that? And I dont think Felipe has finished in front of an RB driver yet .. so ‘we’ is probably a bad choice of words. Maybe ‘we’ should be replaced by Fernando
Todfod (@todfod)
28th July 2011, 6:48
argh.. Sorry I got confused between two posts I read, and made a completely useless comment. I thought Felipe implied that the RBR guys are rubbish.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th July 2011, 3:06
It would be great to see Massa win in Hungary. He should have won in Germany last year, one year after his accident. Of course, Ferrari didn’t let it happen then, and I seriously doubt they’ll let it happen now.
US_Peter (@us_peter)
28th July 2011, 6:49
Oh god no, now that team orders are legal again they’ll swap drivers around faster than you can blink. The only way Massa could win a race is if he were leading, with one or more drivers separating he ann Alonso, making it impossible for the team to pull the old switcheroo. That or an Alonso retirement, which doesn’t seem to happen too often. I’d be surprised, very pleasantly surprised I might add, if we ever see another Massa win.
BasCB (@bascb)
28th July 2011, 8:17
Or maybe in case of some freak pitstop or a drive through penalty for Alonso.
Steph (@)
28th July 2011, 11:19
If Massa is still realistically in the title hunt or both he and Alonso are out of it then he’ll be allowed to win. I actually think Massa will bag a win this year.
BasCB (@bascb)
28th July 2011, 12:14
I presume me and Peter were more positive on how long Alonso would be able to stay in the WDC hunt this year then Steph!
Steph (@)
28th July 2011, 16:41
Lol. Sorry, I was just talking about in general. I’m still not giving up on Aloso’s 3rd title this year ;)
Rob2
28th July 2011, 7:15
I hope they dont let him win this year at all.
Eggry (@eggry)
28th July 2011, 3:39
Of course Hamilton will wait until 2012 but when new car could not match Red Bull…it will be serious threat to Hamilton and Mclaren’s relationship.
Eggry (@eggry)
28th July 2011, 3:44
Oh I just found my forum article is there! Thanks Keith! :D
Funkyf1 (@funkyf1)
28th July 2011, 4:06
Adrian Newey is signed until 2014 right? Only then we might see a Mclaren comeback.
Eggry (@eggry)
28th July 2011, 5:16
or his own team huh? I don’t think he would go back to his former teams…If he does, I wish it is Williams.
suka (@suka)
28th July 2011, 6:25
Me too.
suka (@suka)
28th July 2011, 8:20
I hope MercedesGP improves quite a lot next year and be among the top ones.
BasCB (@bascb)
28th July 2011, 8:23
I think Newey might just go and do something different altogether after 2014.
But if he would return to Williams for nostalgic feelings, it sure would be amazing.
On the other hand, if Williams will be more than a hopeless backmarker by then, it will mean they have already found themselves a solid team of designers by then.
Matt
28th July 2011, 8:57
That is a bit much, Williams are far from their best but it is not as if they are racing with the HRTs
BasCB (@bascb)
28th July 2011, 12:16
HRT is a new upstart, thats why it might have been a good move for Willis, helping to bring them forward.
But if Williams sink anymore, and have little hope of ever recovering, what would be in it for Newey? He would need to know there is something to build with (and still have the will to do so).
Icthyes (@icthyes)
28th July 2011, 8:29
Funny, he didn’t win any championships in 2000. Or 2001. Or 2002. Or 20003. Or 2004. Came close in 2005 though. Failed again in 2006.
Newey is great at stealing a march over others but he’s not invincible at all.
Funkyf1 (@funkyf1)
28th July 2011, 15:39
Oh but the other undeniable talent did. For the past 2 decades of F1, if it wasn’t an Adrain Newey car winning it was Rory Byrnes. Sorry for all those engineers I offend for not mentioning, but these two guys are the gods of car design and innovation.
Icthyes (@icthyes)
28th July 2011, 22:52
2005 and 2006, didn’t see Byrne win then either.
They were two big big talents but they also had big big budgets to go with it. Byrne also had Schumacher and the testing era.
Currently Pat Fry is leading a double-pronged charge with the MP4-26 and now at Ferrari updating the Mondeo. Newey is beatable, you just can’t let him get too far ahead of you.
SS9
28th July 2011, 19:27
Or maybe to Ferrari alongside Vettel
AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner)
28th July 2011, 7:39
To be honest, I can’t see McLaren being where they want to be until 2013. There just isn’t enough regulation change prior to that for the tables to be turned.
Regarding the COTD, this weekend should be an interesting one. Anyone but Red Bull and we may have a genuine challenge on our hands but if Vettel takes it then we can see how the rest of the season pans out.
AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner)
28th July 2011, 22:11
I mean 2014.
Makana (@makana)
28th July 2011, 7:41
Even though the McLaren showed it was faster than the RB7 in Germany, he’s still going about “we cannot match and they have a faster car and boohoo…”
I reckon if Hamilton drove with “controlled aggression” from the start, he would’be been 30ish points behind Seb not more, but again when you’re the center of the universe…
Julian (@julian)
28th July 2011, 9:03
Its an Austrian owned team based in Milton Keynes. Hence the Austrian Anthem
Julian (@julian)
28th July 2011, 9:04
Well i totally screwed that up, that was mean to be a reply to GridlockÂ
BasCB (@bascb)
28th July 2011, 9:12
Some interesting reads, I wanted to share
The first comes from auto123racing website, citing Bild Zeitung as source (guess it might come from Mercedes leaking as they do not agree), about how teams are currently arguing for more team personell to attend races. Weren’t they cutting back on those? The argument runs with McLaren putting their people at FI+Virgin, in effect taking more themselves, Ferrari having dedicated staff for the classic cars, and Red Bull using externalists to achieve more than agreed.
Â
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bosyber (@bosyber)
28th July 2011, 9:25
I agree with a lot you are saying, but do also think the sidepods are something different to try and not play the ¨who has the tightest back-end” game that Newey is better at. But they do need to work towards less of a one (two?) trick pony. Their front end is good, and they hardly changed that part of the car from last year, but they need to look at what Ferrari and Red Bull are doing with the rest of the car.
MaryP
28th July 2011, 9:42
And not too long a year to reach them? What actually have Red Bull? I can’t believe it so difficult to catch them. Anyway, as Hamilton has been seen up there, and perhaps overstates something …
http://www.youtube.com/formulasantander
MaroonJack (@maroonjack)
28th July 2011, 9:44
@Klaas If they are equal in everything, but one is more consistent, then why this guy didn’t win in 2007? Your logic makes little sense. The conditions they raced… Well, Alonso was a reigning world champion and he thought he should be in a privileged position. Instead the team treated them equally. Boo hoo.
Disclaimer: I’m not a Brit. I’m not a huge McLaren fan and I really liked Alonso up until 2006, but he lost a lot in my eyes in 2007. Mostly through his own behaviour. He regained a lot of my respect since then, and he’s back to being one of my favourite drivers, but I doubt he’s better than Hamilton.
Klaas (@klaas)
28th July 2011, 11:19
In 2007 Alonso lost a lot of points in conditions that didn’t depend on him: Canada – no pit stop during safety car period, no fuel, inevitable penalty. France – broken suspension due to overheating, screwed qualifying. Hamilton lost points because he couldn’t find the road on the pitlane and because he pushed the wrong button on the steering wheel. You sense the difference?
About equal treatment: I repeat myself, when your team boss comes after the race and says that the team was racing against you – you are not treated equally. Plus when your team jumps and screams if your team mate gets pole or victory and just fakes a smile when you do that – that’s not equal treatment either. Maybe they got the same equipment but Lewis was moraly privileged and that’s very important for a driver.
Disclaimer: Nobody cares about your nationality or driver preferences, if you’re wrong, you’re wrong.
MaroonJack (@maroonjack)
28th July 2011, 12:03
Nobody cares about my nationality? I wish. Unfortunately you can see people calling “British bias” quite often.
In my opinion if McLaren in 2007 had favored either driver, that one would have grabbed the championship.
“The team jumps and screams if your team mate gets pole or victory and just fakes a smile when you do that” – even if it were true, it wouldn’t mean that they conspire against you. Alonso didn’t give them many reasons to like him, but that’s neither here or there. Both drivers had their share of bad luck, but the fact remains: a rookie driver turned out to be equal to a two-time world champion.
Bateman
28th July 2011, 12:11
+1 :-)
BasCB (@bascb)
28th July 2011, 9:48
That article in the FT is pretty interesting. It shows how the big pension funds are starting the get just a bit nervous about not knowing what is going on with those accusations.
But they will put up with just about anything right now, its not as if they would do a lot better buying EURO or USD bonds right now :-D
Jon
28th July 2011, 9:51
:D
Icthyes
28th July 2011, 10:06
After seeing the criticism of McLaren for constantly hyping themselves up before nearly every weekend, it’s funny to Hamilton’s apparent negativity criticised now.
You can’t please everyone it seems!
Funkyf1 (@funkyf1)
28th July 2011, 15:51
I think I speak for everyone when I say “I’d rather he focus his efforts to racing rather than rambling”. Last weekend was a great drive by Lewis, let’s stay positive, zip the lips and conserve the energy for driving the wheels off that Mclaren.
Icthyes (@icthyes)
28th July 2011, 22:55
Fast forward to a year later: “Lewis never says anything anymore, it’s always a vague uncommitted answer, sitting on the fence and hedging his bets so he doesn’t look like an idiot if he doesn’t get a good result.”
Nik
28th July 2011, 13:02
I live in Milton Keynes. It feels like its on another planet.
Sidney Vianna
28th July 2011, 15:15
I am surprised nobody talks anymore about the flexible wings and the fact that McLaren’s front wings are stiffer than Bernie’s upper lip. Just looking at the cars going by it is astonishing how the is don’t flex at all while everybody else’s does. Their front grip is hugely affected by that.