2012 Japanese Grand Prix championship points

2012 Japanese Grand Prix

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    Keith Collantine
    Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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    102 comments on “2012 Japanese Grand Prix championship points”

    1. This championship has majorly swung Vettel’s way!

      1. Yes it did.

        Let’s see how RBR and Ferrari perfomr in Korea

      2. Its a mini championship from now on …i guess its not all over for alonso ,race pace of ferrari is as good as bulls…

        1. I think Alonso needs help from Mclaren either…

        2. @smokinjoe – The only problem is though that Red Bull are much quicker in qualifying…Vettel could have a big lead over Alonso by the time he’s in the right position to chase him down.

          1. I agree mate and worrying thing is that red bull getting another update for korea. ferrari need find some speed for alonso otherwise its all over, they just cant rely on race pace need to find some qualifying pace

            1. davidnotcoulthard
              7th October 2012, 11:18

              Unless there are problems with RB’s wind tunnel, that is, though I hope there aren’t at all.

      3. Of course. What do uou expect when a driver scores the maximun points and one doesn’t score even one?? Also if vettel has a dnf in the next races than the wdc will shift towards alonso’ hands.

    2. Jesus, the championship is almost over…

      1. Wow, people like jumping to conclusions very quickly. Isn’t that what we said after the European GP?

        Suzuka is generally a bit of a Vettel/Red Bull track. Wait till Korea.

        1. Well said.

          I’m expecting a competive McLaren in Korea and I don’t think Ferrari will be sensibly behind.

      2. @eggry
        Yes, the championship is over.

      3. not that bad, he is still leading the driver championship.

      4. Vettel does have the upper hand now but nothing is over. Red Bull have the best car for Suzuka. It’s been like this for some years now. And still, regardless of that, look at Massa’s pace. If he managed to easily end up in second here, maybe that car is not that far behind after all. The championship might be over for Hamilton and Raikkonen, by the looks of it, but between Vettel and Alonso there’s all to play for.

        But, yes, by the current looks of it it might appear like Alonso is slowly turning into some kind of less-error-prone / unluckier Will Power of Formula One. Coming close, but not close enough and so on.

      5. Yes, its 75% of it gone now (15 from 20 races, is it).

      6. I am inclined to agree, given the pace that Red Bull (or should I say Vettel) has been gathering, and the seemingly loss of progress being made at Ferrari I hardly think that Alsonso will get in front of Vettel during the races quickly enough to stop him from taking a proper lead in the championship.
        Make a statement like ‘lets not go to quick, he’s still 4 points ahead’ doesn’t change the reality that Ferrari is lagging and probably won’t improve in time. Unfortunatly I must say, because i’d hate to see Vettel win the championship again…2 times in a row is enough. We don’t need another dominant German.

    3. Disapointing…with the pace of the red bull. This championship is most likely over. Hope I’m proven wrong. With the way alonso has driven this year and the exciting start with the first half of the season, we are now heading into a probable anti climax.

      1. Indeed. I know its not over yet but looking back at the year so far it seems to me that Alonso’s lead in the championship had more to do with Macca and RB failing rather than Ferrari being top dog. I’m not trying to take anything away from him but its true. And this is the 3rd year in a row that Ferrari failed to provide him with a WDC car.

        1. I don’t agree! Almost all of them have the same number of dnf yet alonso is still in front of them. Alonso hasn’t made mistAkes while the others have. And last but not least the ferrari at some race was between the 4-7 fastest car while the mclaren and the redbull have been the fastest and second fastest car in this season. So yes with you comment you are taking away what a driver alonso is, that e doesn’t need the fastest or even second fastest car to win championships and last but not least that he is probably the best driver out there. Alonso was hit from behind in spa and in this race, his team made bad strategic decision in some races and his car seems to be really bad in qualifying. Instead red bull and mclaren are the best.

      2. Red Bull was dominant at Valencia before Vettel’s alternantor failed. It’s an ups and downs season. Ferrari will suit better some circuits than Red Bull and McLaren is still there.

      3. With redbulls new ddrs its going to be tough for either ferrari or mc laren to fight for pole I rate. Red bull has also gone very well at korea in the last two year, so it isn’t looking much better. I was very dissapointed that hamilton didn’t have pace to pull of a win either. The way I saw it is that with the present pace of the ferrari, the only way we would have a tight championship battle until the end was if alonso kept his good points lead up until the final 3 races. But its never over until its over..and altough I dislike any championship contender having a dnf, maybe a dnf by vettel would change everything again with alonso and hamilton 1 and 2 with which ever one of them taking the win.

        1. wow.. the anti-vettel is strong with this one..

          1. Not anti for vettel..its just that the bulls have the car. I don’t want to see them win the next 5 races and dominate the last quater of the championship. And in all honesty I don’t want to see him win 3 wdc’s in a row. I supported him for the champ in 09..didn’t mind him winning 2010..got abit over the domination in 2011.

      4. Wait a minute. That logic doesn’t apply when anyone else but Alonso is leading the championship.
        Suddenly we like when one driver is leading the championship by over 40 points, and wraps it up with 10 races to go?

        1. @geekracer2000 – No, just people don’t want Vettel to win!
          I hadn’t heard of Red Bull having a DDRS until this weekend, maybe they have actually had one for a while and were just very good at disguising it?

          1. no I guess red bulls have used the +DDRS in singapore and happy with the performance so they used it here

            1. @smokinjoe no it wasn’t. The ddrs was introduced here in Japan

            2. I heard (from people watching Sky, I think?) that Adrian Newey said this was not the first time they used it, but I guess he wasn’t willing to reveal much more than that

            3. Newey said something along those lines. The original report in Auto Motor und Sport said they’d tested it at Singapore during practice.

            4. @raymondu999….DDRS was first used in singapore but every one get noticed here in suzuka

      5. What’s probable about it? It’s no more probable than Alonso winning it, given that he’s been the most consistent driver out there.

    4. OK. As an Alonso fan this championship has become very nerve-wracking.

      That being said, I still believe Fernando will win it… hopefully.

      1. I hope you’re right. Maybe my faith on Alonso is not strong enough.

      2. Sadly, I think it’s over for Alonso, what with the dodgy wind tunnel and a very fast red bull. Ok, Suzuka is a ‘red bull’ track, but we saw at Singapore what it can do on the slow speed circuits now.

        1. Mclaren and Williams were quickest in Singapore actually. In terms of race pace, even today, Ferrari is just as good as Red Bull. Massa was on average only 3 tenths slower than Vettel, imagine what Alonso could’ve done if it wasn’t for the first lap drama.

          I find your lack of faith in Alonso’s driving ability desturbing. :P

          1. I think its more to do with having no faith in Ferrari against the Red-Bulls. Even McLarens were nowhere and even though Felipe was 2nd, he was 20s of Vettel.

            Of course if Alonso managed to survive the first lap then the gap he may have finished 2nd, the gap would have been 22 points and there would have been some breathing space.

            The only thing we can cling onto is that Ferrari are now using the new windtunnel and with 6 races left, have time to improve. I think in Korea Vettel will be leading the WDC however. It requires more faith than Ferrari have show they are worthy of in the last 3 years against the Adrain Newey Super Team.

          2. I have tons of faith in alonso..but just not in ferrari at the moment. With these wind tunnel probs, lack of quali pace and not many developments coming thru or working it looks extremely tuff. Red bull has ddrs and great quali pace along with solid race pace..even if ferrari performs well on race day its asking to much from luck to pull out a win considering alonsos average quali pace is 5th. And we must remember that abu dhabi seems to be a track that ferrari may struggle at, so that’s already 1 out of 5 races down on pace for alonso if the pace of cars stay the way they are. Just hope some miracle is performed by alonso and hamilton to extend the gap for the former and reduce the gap to the bulls for the latter.

          3. TBH, it was Alonso letting himself down today (can’t blame the team or car).. squeezing Rai like that was exactly the same thing Gro did to Ham few races back..

            1. In the Grosjean case, Hamilton was alongside for the whole of the start sequence and he just had total ignorance that another car maybe alongside. We have seen today how reckless is at starts.

              In terms of Alonso, I think it was just unfortunate, nothing more because Kimi was only a fraction overlapping the Ferrari when Alonso moved to the left.

              Actually today I think the stewards got all the decisions correct.

          4. I find your lack of faith in Alonso’s driving ability desturbing. :P

            @Kingshark I actually think Alonso is the best driver in F1 at the moment. Is that enough for you, or do you need more?

          5. @kingshark

            Massa was on average only 3 tenths slower than Vettel

            True, he was even matching his pace for quite some time in the second stint. But the averages only tell half the story: during the second stint Vettel was conserving his tyres.
            The last stint gives a better indication of the true pace of that Red Bull, and Vettel was far quicker than Massa when he put his foot down.
            Ferrari have good race pace, but relative to Red Bull they are probably half a second behind.

          6. @Kingshark Vettel was cruising. Add to that his fastest lap which was something like 7 tenths quicker than his race pace, which he called out on command. That Red Bull today was much more than .3s quicker.

      3. That being said, I still believe Fernando will win it… hopefully.

        @kingshark . I wish I shared that optimism, but it seems obvious that Ferrari have screwed up their car development at the most crucial time. 4 points against a Red Bull stands for nothing.. only a miracle can win Fernando the WDC now

      4. @kingshark I said that earlier this week…starting to doubt myself now though unfortunately.

    5. Looks like mclaren took the wrong sauber driver.

      1. Traverse Mark Senior (@)
        7th October 2012, 9:07

        It’s funny how the driver they’ve signed embarrassingly spins out of the race trying to overtake Hamilton, whilst Kobayashi manages a superb podium.

        1. It was a hilarious move by Perez. I think Lewis might have been having a bit of a chuckle too.

          1. Traverse Mark Senior (@)
            7th October 2012, 9:38

            I think Perez felt invincible after the first move on Hamilton and thought, what the hell let me go for it. Definitely over enthusiastic…and hilarious.

        2. We did say yesterday this would be the acid test for Perez, starting on the same compound as the rest of the field for a change. It started well with the move on Hamilton, but if you look at the weekend as a whole he was outqualified and then outraced by a team-mate who may not even have a race seat next year, let alone in a McLaren.

          This is just one race however and I do think McLaren have signed the right driver.

          1. God I hope Kobayashi finds a seat next season!!

          2. Well perez has 3 podium this year and he is definately best among the rest and he is just 22 yo so mclaren can groom him into a future champ

      2. I always considered Kobayashi to better then Perez.. I’d love to see him in a faster car.. although Sauber are doing very well indeed!

        1. Most future world champions start off as hit or miss driver. Do I need to remind everyone the countless mistakes Alonso made in 2003-04 and Vettel made in 2007-08 ?

          1. Alonso was the test driver in 2003-2004 wasn’t him?

            1. Nope, he was a Renault driver and teammates with Trulli.

            2. No, Alonso was a Renault race driver in 2003 and 2004.

    6. Alonso can kiss goobye to the championship win. This is at about Japan but more about Ferrari’s development pace. A fair amount of Alonso’s lead (no disrespect) is due to other’s misfortune. He can’t rely on that anymore and it doesn’t look like Ferrari has an answer to the speed of the redbull and potentially Mclaren.

      This is much for Vettel to lose now, as Hamilton is far off to challenge. Time will tell

      1. Did you even notice Massa’s performance and pace? Alonso could’ve challenged Vettel today. As I said before, Red Bull is only quicker than Ferrari in qualifying, not in the race.

        1. kingshark Massa had pace but no where near the redbull. Get real and look at the stats. The last time Alonso won a race was in Germany and can’t even remember the last time Alonso was on the front row. Those stats tells you where the ferrari is on pace!

          1. @DT: Good said

        2. The problem like I’ve mentioned previosly is also that Alonso is not good enough in qualifying (be it driver or car).. which means the risks are higher of him being involved in a midfield squabble on lap one.. this cost him twice this year already..

          1. Not sure how you can come to that conclusion given that he reguarly outqualfies his team-mates by a considerable margin.

            1. I meant relative to the Mclarens and RBR, to be absolutely risk free of the Kamikaze drivers this season, he’d either have to qualify 1st (webber qualified second this weekend and still got smashed into) or outside the Top 10…

          2. Massa had pace but no where near the redbull.

            As a driver, Alonso is quite a bit better/faster than Massa, don’t you think? Massa was, on average, only 3 tenths slower than Vettel.

            The last time Alonso won a race was in Germany and can’t even remember the last time Alonso was on the front row.

            Uh, Alonso started on the front row in Germany, and he was quickest in qualifying but unlucky in Monza.

            The problem like I’ve mentioned previosly is also that Alonso is not good enough in qualifying (be it driver or car)..

            It’s the car IMO. Alonso was great in qualifying back in 2005-06, it’s just a matter of Ferrari not being as quick as Red Bull over a single lap.

            1. As a driver, Alonso is quite a bit better/faster than Massa, don’t you think? Massa was, on average, only 3 tenths slower than Vettel.

              Get real. Massa has been the better of the two for the last 3 races.

            2. And Massa has been quicker than Alonso all weekend. He was quicker than Alonso by, on average through the weekend, 3 tenths, until he met Mr. Dud Tyres in Q2. The only lap where he has been slower than Alonso the entire weekend.

      2. Yes and you forgot that alonso lead the 40 point he had 2-3 races ago were lost because of misfortunes in which by not fault of his own he was hit from behind by te lotuses drivers!! So even with that luck he still leads the standings by 4 points.

    7. Chris (@tophercheese21)
      7th October 2012, 9:04

      I think it’s now a two horse race. And my money is on Vettel, simply because RBR have got so many upgrades coming and Ferrari don’t.

      1. Alonso said after the race that they didn’t have updates on their car for six race BUT thay expect a big upgrade for the next races.

        1. They brought massive upgrades to Singapore and Suzuka. I saw them personally as I was in the paddock for both. But none worked and they reverted to older parts.

    8. Vettel in the box seat from here on in. With the Red Bull having so much speed, I can’t see him not winning 3 titles in a row unless he has multiple retirements. But anything can happen…

    9. McLaren: we will do everything we can to give Hamilton the best opportunity for the championship, except the obvious.

    10. I think Vettel can win it now; Red Bull had good straight line speed in japan, and in Korea, should they have a similair set up, then I expect him to be equally competitive.

    11. I am in doubt about Mclaren’s support to HAM in next races, after his move to Mercedes next season confirmed.

      1. Given Hamilton’s ludicrously stupid actions on twitter, they probably should just let him rot.
        First releasing the telemetry data, annoying the team and Button hugely. Now he complains that Button unfollowed him before realizing he never had followed him!

        Is Hamilton 7 years old? These kind of comments and woeful decisions reflect hugely badly on him, including his capacity to make mature decisions in relation to his career and his racing. Even if Button had unfollowed him leaving aside the silly teenage high school girl aspect of it, shouldn’t Hamilton have recognized by now that he was responsible for the ill-feeling generated in the team by releasing data looking to prove a point against Button?

        If I was Brawn, I’d be very worried. Mercedes’ new driver needs to age 15 years in a few months.

    12. 42 points separating the top 4 drivers in 4 different cars with 125 on the table… This is going to be awesome! Lewis and Kimi can still do it!

    13. What I find amazing is that after we thought Ferrari were stuck in 3rd way behind McLaren and Red Bull, the recent DNFs by McLaren and Massa picking up pace and points has brought them within 20 points of the 2nd spot. But at the same time, Red Bull really need to goof to lose it now.

    14. Another important question now is Will Webber get over his ego and try and help Vettel win it? He is pretty much out of the race now..

    15. The thing is that while up to now, Alonso and Vettel was more or less balanced in WDC-terms via Alonso’s healthy points advantage and Vettel’s performance advantage, now the former is gone. It is true that the championship fight became a bit unbalanced in this respect – to favour Vettel.

      Others have already pointed it out above: what Ferrari needs now is either a significant performance update for India – surely they can’t put together a package for Korea – or another huge slice of luck. Preferably the first one.

      Otherwise, this championship is really over, and this is not an overstatement.

      Also, the weak shot of Raikkonen and particularly of Hamilton remained. It will be hard for Raikkonen without race-winning pace, but Hamilton still has it in sight – but only just. He has to be masterful and Vettel has to have bad luck.

      I also agree that this championship is getting very nerve-wracking for us, Alonso fans. Since the summer break, the WDC does not pans out well – lack of working updates, first lap crash out in both Belgium and Japan by the fault of others, mechanical issue takes away 10 points surely in Italy. Only Singapore went ahead perfectly.

      1. Actually it was Alonsos fault this time.. and not Ferraris (or the other drivers) that his lead has disappeared.. but I agree with your other points. A lot can happen in the next five races though. While RBR have the advantage on paper, we won’t know until the fat lady sings.. ;)

    16. I hope somehow Lotus improves a lot and Kimi can really get back in the mix for the title. He came from way back in 2007 and if the updates for Korea works… ( I know I’m just dreaming)

    17. It’s not looking good for Fernando Alonso, is it? He’s used up all his luck, it would seem. I’m a Hamilton supporter through and through, but I have a massive amount of respect for Alonso, and with the way he’s conducted himself the last couple of years, I’ve actually become a supporter of his as well. In my opinion, it would be a huge shame if this Championship doesn’t fall to either Hamilton or Alonso. They’ve both performed exceptionally well through the year, of course having a couple of mediocre; uninspiring performances, but have been on top of their game for almost all the races. Alonso’s been let down by his car being well off the pace for a large part of the year (not all of it — it has been the fastest, or equal fastest, on a number of occasions), and Hamilton has been let down by his team’s mistakes and reliability during a vast number of weekends. However, through it all, they’ve both appeared as the best of the lot, and I will be extremely unsatisfied if Sebastian Vettel claims another title — one that I just don’t feel he deserves as much as the other two. People can disagree all they want, but if he wins it, then it will sour what has been a fantastic year for me — one of F1’s best. Hopefully, the Red Bull’s pace at Suzuka is just a flash in the pan; the dominance maybe not extending to the next few circuits — similar to what happened with Valencia.

      1. +1 agree with everything you’ve said.

      2. TBH, I’m actually rooting for Vettel. Why? Because it seems the majority of people on this site have shown little to no respect for his talent and racing ability. It seems that race in and out that he’s either considered lucky, to have a good car or some other ridiculous excuse (DOTW votes confirm this).

        The more championships he gets the better. Maybe after a few more he’ll make you feel bitter as well as sour? OR just maybe he will actually start getting the respect he deserves here?

        It’s quite funny, I was actually never a Vettel fan before starting to frequent this site…

        1. Why are you so interested what others feel about your favourite driver? Do you think he cares one bit what others feel about him? I don’t think so…

          1. Good Point sid.. it’s just sad to see the Vettel hate on this site.. kinda cheapens it.. I’ve seen other sites where this is not the case..

            1. I find it annoying as well, I mean a lot of my friends seem to hate him as well, I don’t know why. They tell me that he’s arrogant when I ask them, but he isn’t, I mean he’s so likeable in interviews. Well the better drivers like Seb, Lewis and Fernando get a lot of hate anyway, can’t help it. It’s pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things you know?

        2. As long as Alonso and Hamilton and maybe Raikkonen are there. Vettel is unlikely to get that sort of respect. No matter high BBC put him on all time greats and overestimate him.

          1. LOL.. I’d like to invite you to a BBQ in 2 months time..when Vettel has his 3rd Championship .. so you can tell me more about that..

        3. I think you’ve misunderstood me completely. I don’t think he deserves this Championship, as I think he’s largely been unimpressive in comparison to Alonso and Hamilton. He thoroughly deserves both of his other titles, though. 2010 should have been his earlier in the season, but for his car’s reliability letting him down and losing him three certain wins (Bahrain, Australia and Korea). 2011 speaks for itself, really. Yes, he had a dominant car for most; but not all of the year. However, his only point of comparison; the measure of his performances was a team mate that matched him plenty the previous year, but was nowhere close this year. I’m also in the minority that voted for him as “Driver of the Weekend” in Valencia, as I felt that was a completely inherited win on Alonso’s part (both Vettel and Grosjean retiring and Hamilton’s dreadfully slow pit stop gifting him three places he wouldn’t have had otherwise). So, when I say I don’t feel he deserves this year’s as much as Hamilton and Alonso do, it’s not a biased assessment, and nor am I hating on him as you seem to be hinting. It’s just how I feel.

      3. That’s why I feel the role of statistics in sport in general but definitely F1 is overplayed. Thankfully the likes Gilles or Moss but are still heavily revered despite no WDC. Senna has less than half the WDC of Schumacher yet so many people consider him greater. Vettel may end up with the greater statistics regarding poles, wins, WDCs and more but he has a long way to go for me to match Alonso or Hamilton as a genuine F1 hero/icon.

        1. Which I’m sure will mean absolutely nothing to him lol

      4. Its vice versa for me. I am a huge Alonso and Raikkonen fan.Used to dislike Hamilton but have found so much respect for him in last couple of years. It seems Alonso v.s Hamilton is an old thing now. and most of the Alonso fans respect Hamilton and vice versa.

    18. Whoelse thinks Mclaren should have asked Button to give place to Hamilton. I know lot of people think its not fare as Hamilton was struggling with the car. But my point of argument is that Hamilton is still inhaul t the running with fastest car. As per my calculations he is the favourite to win this championship. My point of reasoning is based on these facts:

      1. Hamilton took 10 points of Alonso’s lead.
      2. Hamilton is 17 points behind Alonso under the old points system. If Raikkonen can overhaul that in 2007 in two races, how come Hamilton cannot with 5 races remaining.
      3. Mclaren is the fastest car. If Hamilton had normal qualifying he could have started P2(as he is normally couple of tenths faster than Button).We all know Redbull is quick in Suzuka. It wont be the case in next 5 races.
      4. If Grosjean can move over for Raikkonen even he has very slim chances, why cant Button give place to Hamilton.

      1. I would have thought so, but it would appear neither Button nor McLaren are interested as long as they can point to any reason at all to avoid it. Maybe Hamilton’s set-up was a bit too slow to allow the two to leap frog each other by strategically using the DRS to catch up Sauber earlier than JB could do alone. So with the scenario they chose, the Team were looking for additional WCC points. Personally, I didn’t think JB had enough time to pass KK.

      2. Hamilton was 21 seconds back while Button was .5 secs from getting a podium. So:

        1. it wasn’t an option
        2. did you expect button to sit on the start/finish line for 20 seconds while Hamilton came ’round?

        I can see your point if Hamilton was within a few seconds, but c’mon, really ??

      3. It’s actually very interesting, I guess cause Button was “fighting” for 3rd. He really should have moved over for Hamilton.

    19. Ah if only Hamilton hadn’t retired in Singapore, he would be on 177 points, Alonso 191 and Vettel 183. What a finish that would be!

    20. I’d absolutely love to see Raikkonen win this championship without a single win, even if as unlikely it is it would be pretty amazing, but realistically it looks like Vettels got a great chance to get his 3rd title in a row, it seems the Red Bull is allot faster now then at the start of the year and Hamilton is in the same sort of position has Raikkonen but has a race winning car so has more of a chance, Alonso looks like his luck has really run out this time unless he can do well in the last 5 races which looks pretty hard to do, in my opinion The title will go to Vettel.

      Also those Saubers are looking on par if not faster than the Ferraris at the moment but I guess we’ll all see what happens in the following races.

    21. OmarR-Pepper (@)
      7th October 2012, 18:03

      @kingshark OK. As a VETTEL fan this championship has become very nerve-wracking too. Remember Red Bull is faster than Ferrari, but Ferrari is more reliable. A DNF for Vettel could set things the same as before Suzuka start

    22. This is getting awkward now as I’d like to see both of the top drivers win a championship for different reasons. A three time consecutive world champion, coming to clinch his third from behind has quite a romantic ring to it. However, Alonso doing it without the best car and just on sheer consistency and brilliant driving alone would also be fantastic.

    23. As a Ferrari fan and still having 1998, 2006, 2008 and 2010 in my mind some place, if Fernando loses this, I’ll be hurt somewhat.. Fernando has been doing so well this season and despite my disbelief for ‘no updates for the last 6 races’, Ferrari need to get their act together if they want this one. Felipe did awesome on Sunday, but Fernando is going to need more than just one more win to clinch the title and the McLarens, maybe even Kimi need to get involved..

      Or, you know, Magneti Marelli. ;)

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