Drivers should be sent off for deliberate contact – Hamilton

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In the round-up: Lewis Hamilton says deliberate contact should be treated as seriously in F1 as it is in other sports.

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Carlos Sainz Jnr is shopping around for a 2018 drive, but has his market value fallen?

I think his value has dropped a little because of his crashes, which both were quite clumsy and potentially dangerous. Were could he go next year?

Maybe Renault, but they would surely have to pay a considerable amount to buy him from Red Bull. With Kubica coming into the picture, I expect Sainz to do another year at Toro Rosso.
@Me4me

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69 comments on “Drivers should be sent off for deliberate contact – Hamilton”

  1. Realistically it’s midfield or nothing for Sainz whichever way he goes. There might be a Ferrari slot open next year but I can’t see him getting it.

    I’m guessing people are probably rolling their eyes at the possibility of a second Chinese GP considering they can’t even fill the first one up. I will say that although they don’t gather in huge numbers, those fans that do turn up at least seem enthusiastic though, which is more than you can say for the middle eastern races.

    1. @george Attendance at Shanghai is actually always really strong, Often higher than a lot of the european races (150,000+).

      The reason the place often looks a bit empty is because it’s such a large venue with far too many grandstands. The place can hold nearly 300,000 people which was way too over ambitious & something that I don’t believe even the most popular european venues could reach.
      The F1 races at Indy suffered the same problem, It always got strong attendance numbers which were on-par if not higher than most other venues, However the place been so big with so many grandstands around the oval usually made it look more empty than it was.

      1. Yes, I attended the Race in 2014, it is very well attended with Chinese fans crazy at times! In true modern China style they built ENORMOUS Grandstands. The main grandstand is a fantastic build with good facilities, and great views over the back of the track.

      2. @gt-racer
        Consider me corrected, I just remembered them closing some grandstands and assumed.

  2. I was looking at the engine component use for Honda and was telling myself it cant be correct. 5 ICEs, 7 TCs etc, after 8 races, then remembered each of those components was supposed to last for 5 races.

    1. Well at least Honda is at the head of one table…

  3. We have already worn through the Hamilton and Vettel argument. Although I agree Vettel should’ve been disqualified, the penalty was pretty consistent with those given for previous such offences, and it’s incredibly tiring listening to people whine on about it.

    It has happened, Vettel took the penalty, he has (perhaps reluctantly) admitted fault and apologised for the accident, and both drivers and teams have moved on. It will be a massive shame for the media and the fans to drag this out for months on end, and ruin / detract from (and therefore prevent people from enjoying) the amazing championship battle we are witnessing. Sadly, it’s apparent that that is exactly what is going to happen, as always.

    1. Keith Crossley
      7th July 2017, 1:50

      “months on end”. I reckon we’re on Day 11?

      Re-reading, I realize you’re saying “it would be” if it continued. Yeah – it’s time to put it away. And, if the end result is a certain way, put an * next to the driver; like I do with MS in those years.

    2. This will go on till the end of the season. If Hamilton loses by less than 25 points(or the difference in the next race). Then Lewis fans will say that Vettel should have been given a race ban. The contest is rigged, favouritism etc etc.

      Personally I am tired that we are still talking about it.

      1. If you think about it, Vettel did HAM a favour by banging wheels. Had he not he would have extended his lead by way more. Easy win for the taking. How would that play out in a to the wire WDC situation?

        What Seb did was wrong. I wish he hadn’t. But it is done. He got a penalty albeit less severe than deserved. Let’s move on.

        HAM is playing this very smart knowing the media is on his side. What with setting the right example quote and all. Wasn’t he caught speeding in Aussie a few years ago + his crash in Monaco last year? So much for responsible behavior. HAM got away easy in Mexico last year and no penalties for butting Nico off track before. At least there was a penalty issued here.

        1. In Aus, I think he was also caught making a video with his cell phone whilst riding a motorcycle. My understanding is he was not punished.
          Another year it was burnouts or donuts in an AMG outside Albert Park. I didn’t witness either personally.

          1. Glennb, the Australian police like to prosecute motorsport figures for antics such as burnouts – recently, Robby Gordon was firstly hit with more than $4000 in fines by the local police for performing a burnout, then the Confederation of Australian Motor Sport announced that, for good measure, they were imposing an indefinite ban on him applying for a competition visa until they had finished their own investigation. https://www.motorsport.com/truck/news/gordon-slapped-with-visa-ban-for-burnout-antics-920591/?v=2&s=1&q=gordon

        2. You say let’s move on then lay into him about other stuff.

          How about just note the penalty wasn’t severe enough and stop at that?

      2. Vettel and Hamilton should be on equal points coming into Austria, Vettel disqualified so loses 12 points and Hamilton them gets 4th place in Baku leaving them exactly equal. That is points result that the FIA’s desicion should have made. What could be fairer then leaving them on equal points after Baku for the championship and the fans watching? We could have moved on and stopped talking about it if the FIA had done the right and just thing. As it is the championship scores are wrong and many fans feel the FIA has a Ferrari bias.

        1. hear hear

          +100000

        2. Why is that the ‘right’ thing when several recent similar incidents have been penalized with far less than what Vettel got? Because you don’t like Vettel?

    3. …and both drivers and teams have moved on.

      I don’t think they did @strontium. Well at least that is the idea that I have after the round-up. Which doesn’t fit with what Hamilton said during the press conference. He is right in one thing, Jean Todt should spare us a few words.

      And while I agree with those who say they should be an example for drivers moving up the rankings (yes, just those, anyone in real life should search for other role models), this road-safety charade I personally don’t get it, at least I don’t remember being in the driver’s school and the instructor showing us clips of Motorsports and telling us to behave like that. If deliberate contact is a problem for FIA, they should check other categories first (specially everything that has tourism on the tittle).

      P.S: I hereby acknowledge that most likely this is another unpopular opinion of mine, and therefore feel free to insult me

    4. Not seen many red cards in football for pulling someone’s shirt, or disqualifications in cycling for urinating up-wind of your competitor. Very annoying habits and poor examples for the kids.

      Interesting that it’s now the guy who did nothing wrong who starts to annoy me.

    5. We have already worn through the Hamilton and Vettel argument

      I thought we had too @strontium, but listening to the press ask Vettel and Hamilton the same question 1,000,000 different ways I the press conference yesterday makes me think otherwise!

    6. For me, the big issue that has yet to really be dealt with for me is the comments of the steward (since deleted from the original article) saying that they didn’t want to influence the championship – which implies that the penalty would have been worse for Vettel if he wasn’t in the championship battle. However you see the actual penalty that Vettel received, surely it is wrong to take into account the “battle for the championship” as a factor into the severity of the penalty issued?

      That’s where I get annoyed – there needs to be a standard of “if you commit offence x, you get penalty y” – doesn’t matter to me what that penalty is, or who suffers from being on the receiving end of it (whether it is a championship contender or backmarker, should be irrelevant), so long as it is consistent. The Grosjean ban still rankles for the same reason in that he probably would have avoided it if he hadn’t eliminated a “championship contender”.

      My takeaway from this for me is that the entertainment side is being favoured over fair sportsmanship and standardised stewarding.

  4. @strontium

    Not exactly sure what you mean with “penalty was pretty consistent with those given for previous such offences”.
    If by previous such offences you mean deliberately hitting another competitor, the punishment has been much worse.
    If instead you mean just banging wheels with minimal damage while racing, it doesn’t apply – nobody’s done this before under the safety-car, when racing isn’t even allowed.

    1. @andrewf1
      Maldonado.

      Next.

  5. Grumpy (@)
    7th July 2017, 1:16

    Please, please, please lets move on the, the incident between Vettel and Hamilton is over and does not this continuous postmortem.

    1. Grumpy (@)
      7th July 2017, 1:19

      sorry, should read … “does not need”

  6. Lewis strikes me as the sort of kid in the playground who, knowing he had backup from the other kids, was all talk and tough-sounding, pushing his chest out. But get him alone and he’s a weak weak individual.
    Same as the race. Where was all this fire immediately following the race (1st interview)? It was nowhere. Sheepish little Hamilton knew he did wrong, but wasn’t sure he had anyone in his corner. That spoke volumes. Not all this after-the-fact dead-horse beating.

    1. I couldn’t possibly have a more opposite reaction. Lewis was reluctant to talk to the media about it because he still held a deep respect for Vettel, as he showed by accepting the apology later. He has come out as the more mature of the two. The fact that he gets on with just about every driver including Alonso tells a lot aboiut what kind of sportsman he is.

      1. Not really, the only reason he didn’t drop bombs onto the mic was because the press lady he was with told him not to. Did he come out as the more mature of the two? depends on who you ask. For me I don’t know why Lewis insisted on Sebastian specifically apologising and saying he wasn’t brake tested.

        1. RP (@slotopen)
          7th July 2017, 3:01

          I think he wins the maturity battle because he didn’t retaliate on the track. He didnt start a fight in the pits. Then he talked a little tough afterward, but within the bounds of what he knew wouldn’t cause a problem.
          So what if he had some encouragement from a handler? Many people would be too immature to take the advice.

          I think Hamilton knows Vettels temper is a weakness, and he is going to use it against him as best he can. For now keeping his nose clean is the best thing he can do. It keeps the focus on Vettel.

          Controlling your emotions to get the desired result is pretty mature.

          1. @slotopen

            Exactly that

      2. Hamilton reluctance was due to a respect for Vettel. Come on @gitanes….

        Hamilton handled it well, but the Hamilton in front of the camera and the one when a camera isn’t around are two different people. Talk to anyone who has had to deal with him outside of a media or sponsors event environment.

        1. “Hamilton handled it well, but the Hamilton in front of the camera and the one when a camera isn’t around are two different people. Talk to anyone who has had to deal with him outside of a media or sponsors event environment.”

          That’s pretty much the description for every single driver, not just Hamilton

        2. Yes, it’s surprising I remember listening to (I think) it was Jack Nicholls on the Chequred flag podcast last year, saying Hamilton was very candid and friendly off camera, whereas Button who has always cultivated a great media image would cold shoulder people away from the camera or mic.

      3. I think Hamilton wins the maturity contest. While they both behave like young teens, at least Hamilton is already in the acne phase, Vettel just got out of the new teeth stage.

    2. I don’t understand. In what way did Hamilton do wrong? If you mean brake-testing that’s proven to be false… or maybe you believe that was fake telemetry, in which case there’s no hope for a reasonable discussion.

      1. Anthony, given her rather nationalistic bias, the main crime that Hamilton seems to have committed in @sjzelli‘s eyes is not being born German…

    3. @sjzelli

      Nothin Hamilton could have done would have avoided ridiculous comments from Vettel fans. That’s a fact.

      1. Literally true!

      2. @todfod

        Because Hamilton fans are SO much better. What’s ridiculous is your hypocrisy

  7. Sassi to Honda.

    Probably caught doing their homework.

    ;)

    1. Not unless he coverts to Sassi-san.

    2. I can imagine… Illien and Sassy, probably the 2 best engine minds in the current hybrid era working together in Sakura. But the engine reaches the track.. and it’s GP2 and blow up time!

      Honda don’t need the talent.. they need an act of god to help them out.

    3. Sassi will not leave, he’s been promoted as Head of Hybrid powertrain of the whole FCA group, basically the second most important man in the next 10 years after Marchionne himself. Hardly a downgrade in my book…and btw he’s already working in this new role since the last 6 months.
      And you better check your sources since that newspaper where you got the quote “il Giornale” is owned by Berlusconi’ brother and its only meaningful purpose is being a good substitute of toilet paper when you ran out of it.

      1. caci99 (@)
        7th July 2017, 8:40

        @Bio are you sure that paper is worth for it too? As the saying goes, you can’t wash away a turd by peeing on it

      2. Head of hybrid power train- 2nd most important man in the company???? They may have told him that but it doesn’t make it true. Far more important people in that company than 1 guy who is in charge of engines.

        1. You don’t know what you’re talking about, do you? Hybrid and electric powertrains will be the future in the next 20 to 30 years and FCA is quite behind its main competior in this aspect (think about Toyota, Honda or Renault if you like a European one) . What Marchionne did was simply take the best man he had and put him in charge of evrerything Hybrid/Electric related for the whole FCA group.
          Something similar already happened when he switched Sanchez and Cardile from the aerodinamic bureau of their GT department to head of Aero within the GES/F1 team. Apparently he was’t wrong…

  8. LH goes 1 up in the mind games championship

  9. Chris (@tophercheese21)
    7th July 2017, 6:19

    I really hate the way the other F1 drivers are trying to deflect the questions re: VET/HAM with the generic responses like “It’s not for me to say”.

    You’re a driver in Formula One for heaven’s sake! If it’s not for you to say, then who the hell is?!

    1. @tophercheese21, it’s good practice to read the article first before commenting!

      PS interesting POVs from most drivers.

    2. EC (@dutch-1)
      7th July 2017, 9:56

      In a sport not the players in the field are the judges or the rule makers. That’s up to the referee and the sport organisation. So they are right: it’s not up to them. And probably most of them have done something Vettel-like somewhere in their career or would have liked to do that. Doesn’t make it right, but they can understand why something like this happens.

  10. You mean black flagged Lewis.

    1. @johns23

      Like Maldonado wasn’t. Twice.

  11. Waiting for Sergio Marchionne to appoint himself head of Ferrari engine technology, in addition to CEO and Chairman of Ferrari, CEO and Chairman of Fiat-Chrysler, and CEO and Chairman of Case New Holland.

  12. Disagree 100% with @me4me COTD. Reading everywhere his value remains very very high. Sainz has been in excellent form this season and even with 2 crashes that were his fault he still has made far fewer mistakes than most drivers at this stage of career even those who went on to become greats. It may be that in your eyes his value has fallen but this is not an opinion shared by the majority of fans, journos, and from what the journos write, other F1 drivers and team principals either. It’s accepted by all in the paddock that a young driver will crash from time to time and it’s the his speed that matters most which Sainz has shown on many occasions this year as being excellent.

    I also disagree that Sainz will find it tough to go to Renault because they will have to pay a lot to RBR. His contract ends by the end of the year. RBR may have an option for him but as we learned in 2014 with Vettel these options do have get out clauses on the driver’s side as well as the team’s.
    As for Kubica, the real question is, can Kubica come back to his sublime 2010 level? If he can, Renault don’t need Sainz. If he can’t, Sainz is the best option, and he was their number 1 option for 2017 already.

    1. @montreal95 I didnt say high that his value has fallen in the sense that it is at a low level. Don’t understand me wrong. I said it has dropped a little, by which I mean it is not currently at it’s peak. Because although he has performed well, inevitably some questions arise when he has two stupid crashes.

    2. He’s not getting Kimi’s seat, though.

      And I doubt that the can vettel is way out of his contract with the performance he has shown this year relative to the car.

  13. He was already sent off…. to the pits

  14. I know all the focus has been on the hubbub between Vettel and Hamilton, rightly so because of the seriousness of Vettel’s actions and because of the championship fight, but the dynamic at Force India is really the interesting thing for me.

    The tone of both drivers was very different yesterday/ Ocon came out and said “the team spoke, and we all agreed it was 50/50”. Perez came out and said “the team spoke, and we all agreed it was Ocon’s lack of experience…”. This isn’t over. In my mind, Perez thinks its his team, he is revelling in being the “best of the rest” and he thinks Ocon is 100% to blame for the incidents to date. He was scathing in his assessment of the situation in his interview with Will Buxton (and to a slightly lesser extent with Ted Kravitz).

    Force India are an amazing little operation, I just hope the driver issues can be wound up quickly so it doesn’t continue to affect the on track results.

    1. For me a young driver like Ocon only benefit can have from class between the two drivers. Anyone with common sense understands that Perez is to blame if you see the cold timing facts.

      I expect Ocon to step up more his game for sure and then we will have better battles.

  15. David (@davidschmo)
    7th July 2017, 8:43

    If Alonso leaves McLaren for Ferrari or Mercedes, I can see Sainz replacing him at McLaren, that’s if they get rid of Honda and go back to Mercedes engines. He could get some podiums and it could be a good opportunity to build on his skills. He isn’t going to get Red Bull seat anytime soon!

  16. Adam (@rocketpanda)
    7th July 2017, 9:06

    Let it go, let it go,
    The punishment fit a crime,
    Let it go, let it go!
    Why do we talk about this all the time?
    I don’t care, what Hamilton has to say,
    The arguments rage on,
    As the FIA never bothered anyway.

    1. All readers without a little daughter are scratching their heads!

      @rocketpanda

  17. EC (@dutch-1)
    7th July 2017, 9:50

    To Hamilton: stop the moaning and start racing again.

    1. He was answering a question. You understand how interviews work right?

  18. Hamilton’s number is 44. Vettel’s number is 5. 44-5=39.
    Now take that number and use Rosberg’s number to detract. 39-6=33.
    33 is the amount of WC drivers in F1. Now take that number and divide it by the amount of WC’s Lewis has. 33:3=11.
    Rosberg’s and Vettel’s numbers are 6 and 5. 6+5=11. Coincidence?
    Now multiply that number by the amount of WC’s Vettel has. 11 times 4 = 44.
    Now multiply that with number of WC’s Rosberg has. Still 44.

    CONSPIRACY!

    But the earlier mentioned 33 is also the gap between the numbers of Bottas and Lewis. 77-44=33.
    33 is also Verstappen’s number. Verstappen has been highly linked with Mercedes.
    In that case its 44-33=11.
    Multiply that with the number of races Vettel won this year. 11 times 3=33.
    So the key number to all this 33!

    DOTD confirmed.

    Tinfoil hat enough for you?

    1. Sundar Srinivas Harish
      7th July 2017, 11:11

      Damn conspiracy theorists. Go back to your cave!

      1. I hope you realize I’m taking the mick out of journalists who keep demanding further action right?

  19. Lewis… Actually, you’re right, but can you please go back to racing?

    1. Race isn’t till Sunday. Without a time machine he cannot get back to racing any earlier then anyone else. Certainly not on Thursday during press interviews, where he is supposed to be answering questions like the one you are complaining about him answering.

      Literally any excuse to have a go at Hamilton :/

  20. Richard (@)
    7th July 2017, 20:44

    To whomever called or believes Vettel’s tap of Hamilton should be deemed as serious I say you really need to watch auto sports that take place in the US.
    I have seen many races where drives have fist fights after the race. If a drivers feels that another caused unwarranted contact or the like the offended driver knows that he can resort to a physical altercation and NO ONE will think twice about it.
    Auto racing is a mans sport and fights can be part of the contest .
    This is true is all major sports and some that are less than major so…
    expand your views and watch a race fight or two and you will then understand that a little tap ( and that is all that Vettel did)is nothing to be called serious.
    What IS serious is where a driver cuts off another at 200mph. When Verstappen did that to Raikonnen at Spa no one called it serious yet, there could have been a fatality . If that is the standard that the tap at Baku was laughable at most .
    So,stop playing Mercedes/Hamilton politics .

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