Max Verstappen, Red Bull, Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez, 2018

Red Bull’s 2018 car was ‘one of our best’ – Horner

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In the round-up: Christian Horner says Red Bull’s RB14 is one of the best chassis the team has ever built, but was held back by a lack of power.

What they say

I think if we’d’ve had – it’s always easy to say ‘ifs, buts and maybes’ – but if there’d’ve been another 40 kilowatts in the back of the car the season could have looked quite different.

I think considering, hats off to everybody in Milton Keynes for producing arguably one of our best-ever chassis because when you look at the other users with the same engine there’s a world of difference.

Quotes: Dieter Rencken

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Comment of the day

Zak Brown’s criticism of ‘B teams’ in F1 struck a chord with Mike:

I agree with this 100%.

Even the driver market is too affected by this. Drivers can only swap between teams from within the same A team management. Mercedes are A team, Force India their B team, Williams their C team and drivers can only travel in between these teams.

Same for Ferrari, Haas and Sauber. Than you have Red Bull and Toro Rosso. Renault are too new to this to be an A team to anything.

Ocon didn’t find a seat only because he cannot/would not leave the Mercedes. The current situation is so political and locked up its ridiculous
Mike

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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  • 59 comments on “Red Bull’s 2018 car was ‘one of our best’ – Horner”

    1. If Redbull and most of F1 believe that RB would ‘wash’ the entire grid with a decent, reliable PU because they have the best chasis, can we not apply the same logic to other teams. Say Ferrari, wont they wash the entire grid with RB’s chasis too? But we dont hear other teams wishing on the neighbours greener grass. You play what life deals you and move on.

      Its one thing to focus all your resources and energy into just the chasis and another to chasis and pu. I am not belittling RB’s achievements, ‘cos they have done an amazing job at it, but it’s so easy to point fingers when you are not winning. McLaren is a fine example.

      1. @lums

        But we dont hear other teams wishing on the neighbours greener grass

        Well, McLaren and a certain driver have done so, and we all saw how that turned out

        1. @mrboerns but it was the transition year, surely by 2019?!

          1. @johnmilk – 2019 is the transition year for their drivers ;-)

            1. they can’t catch a break can they? What about 2020? CEO transition?

            2. @johnmilk – well, 2021 will necessitate a lot of transitions, so 2020 will be the year of transition between transitions :-)

              Or, like you say, Zak finds himself out/ousted.

      2. @lums: Agree. RBR like to have their aero cake and berate the cheap engines too. Would have been great if Newey took an interest in ICE design.

        RBR like to play the ‘independent’ Garagista facade when it suits their marketing plan. But they spend far more than any other ‘independent’ team – and only slightly less than Merc or Ferrari.

        Expect in future, the online dictionaries will add another meaning for the word disingenuous. It’s starts with H and ends with a moan.

      3. @lums

        I wouldn’t take his comments too seriously. Red Bull have been claiming to be head and shoulders above the rest in designing a chassis for the past 8 seasons. This looks like another bitter statement to remind everyone how Renault was holding them back. I cannot wait for the statements regarding how they would be winning championships if Honda delivered a better power unit.

        If Red Bull claim they are the best, they should start making their own engines and showing the F1 grid how it’s really done. Up until then .. Mr. Horner should just put a lid on it.

        1. But it’s true, nothing Horner said is false, with the same engine Renault is 1.5 seconds average behind, and McLaren claren is even worst, so what he is saying is true.
          I don’t get people criticizing red bull for stating the obvious, if reporters ask the questions, he answers, and he answers with facts not fiction.
          Same with Max, reporters ask questions he answers with facts and people go on a rampage because he is bashing Renault.
          If the same happens to Honda, if they bash them with facts then it’s Hondas problem, for not delivering its very simple

        2. @todfod @mfalcao I’m quite sure this is not a new quote from CH, or even if it is it is not news for him to say this. But interestingly, the comment of his provided above is more about their great chassis as I see it. And there’s the rub. Some choose to read into his comment a dig at Renault, and some take it as him complimenting his team for a great car…one of their best. I think it goes without saying what they could have done with some more hp, so at least what Horner is saying is absolutely true and backed up by their performances. It is not like he is faking it that lack of reliable hp was there biggest issue, and that in reality the chassis was the problem.

          As I have said before too, it is silly to assume that RBR will carry forward what some call ‘bitterness’ toward Renault to Honda if Honda underperforms. It’s a new marriage in it’s beginning and they know Honda has much work to do and they will play an integral role in that too, whereas it had been 12 years with Renault, so an entirely different relationship. Let’s give RBR some credit for likely having some class, and patience, and fortitude with this new chapter for them.

          1. Horner was saying this in 2008 and 2009, right before they racked up 8 championships in a row.

          2. Robbie… You’re really in love with RBR, aren’t you…? ;-)

      4. Red Bull has no control over how good their engine is. Ferrari is entirely in control of how good their chassis is.

        1. Of course they have control. They can build their own, just like Ferrari can go and design a better chassis but they are not able to, they just need right people and resources, just like RBR.

        2. Yes, they currently aren’t in control, but they could be, considering renault was not up to par, a decent base engine but nothing to fight for titles with, if honda is still as bad as with mclaren, they could just say “if you want something done well you have to do it yourself” and make an engine, but will take a while to get it right ofc, making your own engine gives a certain advantage as mercedes and ferrari proved.

    2. I think there is too much obsession with a race in London. People would expect to see various great landmarks in shot, which is just a non-starter, but even the greater London idea is a bit lame. Would you really care for a race around Walthamstow or Croydon?

      Its a bit like the New York FE race. Its not really that glamorous cos its not in Manhattan, its on the dock side in Brooklyn (although just the word “Brooklyn” at least “sound cool”). The London equivalent would be the Isle of Dogs, which sounds as appealing as the name.

      Just sort out a Silverstone deal already!

      1. @eurobrun well at least Baku is proove they now dare to do ridiculous street circuits. And also it shows that on ridiculous circuits the drivers also get quite silly. So, if they do another one of those, count me in.

      2. Just sort out a Silverstone deal already!

        @eurobrun: Hear Here!

      3. Well, the Melbourne GP isn’t actually in the city of Melbourne, it’s in Saint Kilda about 15km away. But nobody calls it the St Kilda GP or the Albert Park Lake GP. It’s Melbourne and it generates a great deal of interest and tourism for the city of Melbourne, and that’s the same effect a London GP would have whether it’s located in the city of London or not.

        The skyline and helicopter shots of the city in the distance is enough to situate the race as being in Melbourne.

        I mean sure, they should sort out a deal for Silverstone I agree, but the argument you’re presenting against a London GP is quite debatable.

        1. Albert Park is walking distance from Southbank (hotels and restaurants) and the CBD.
          They are jointly called Greater Melbourne, and that’s the Melbourne most refer to; both here and overseas.
          @skipgamer.

          PS the GP is called the Australian GP and is held at Albert Park in (Greater) Melbourne

          1. @coldfly

            Im not seeing your point, yes it’s greater Melbourne just as the London GP being planned to be held in Greater London.

            My point is they’ll be similar in that regard and to say that just because a cities GP doesn’t run through the heart of the city centre that it’s a waste is folly.

            1. @skipgamer. I was explaining that it’s not 15k to the CBD in Melbourne.

      4. I think a London GP would be quite interesting and the city is so large that it would feel like London irrespective of having a shot of big ben in the background of turn 1 (I can see it from my office window right now and it’s still covered in scaffolding so i doubt there’d be much clamour for it anyway).

        one major sticking point would be the quality of the roads, which are pretty appalling everywhere. the only ‘space’ where there is room to make road improvements without annihilating day-to-day traffic is probably stratford (the olympic park) and that would be the least inspiring location (albeit vaguely iconic given the olympic infrastructure is still mostly there).

        personally, I like the idea of doing the race in the vicinity of crystal palace. for starters they did actually used to have a racing circuit there. it also has some significant elevation change, a huge park for spectator/paddock facilities. plus it’s away from the centre so it wouldn’t cripple public transport and annoy to NIMBYs. it’s pure fantasy of course, but it’s a (barely) cogent fantasy and what more could you ask for? :)

        1. I would love to see a return to Crystal palace… ;-)

      5. lets settle by bringing back Boavista

    3. Yes Bottas had bad moments in2018 but what is the point of improving if victories could just be taken from him by team orders.

      1. He finished 5th the last 4 or 5 races. I think there is room for improvement without being expected to win . Btw, he was asked to move aside 1 time, while Hamilton was .7 behind with about 40 laps to go.. if that margin is enough to say he was guaranteed a victory then I need to find a new racing series to support

    4. Well at the rate Mclaren are going, they could be Renault’s B-Team in about a year.

      1. Yes, consider the driver line up too: renault just got ricciardo instead of sainz for next year, a definite improvement, while mclaren just lost alonso for norris who might or might not be great and got sainz which is likely a little better than vandoorne but worse than alonso, so overall they got a worse line up than next year and renault improved!

        1. Than this year ofc*

    5. Regarding Lowe’s quote:

      “I think he would have been better to come a year later when he was better prepared.”

      Does this mean that Stroll Sr’s final payment has cleared and Williams can now snipe at Lance’s premature ‘career’ choices?

      1. Interestingly it reads more like a swipe at Williams.
        @jimmi-cynic

        1. @coldfly: Self-swiping? These kids and their smartphones.

    6. Bottas has to justify his seat at Mercedes

      When Nico Rosberg resigned from Mercedes and left them with a vacant seat, the Mercedes powered car driver with the most WDC points outside of Mercedes itself was Sergio Perez. I would have expected him to be given the newly vacant seat at Mercedes, not Valtteri Bottas. Instead of Sergio Mercedes chose Valtteri to drive for them.
      Valtteri was given a one year contract to prove himself, which he did, and then … another one year contract? Oh, and doesn’t that coincide with the end of Daniel Ricciardo’s contract at Red Bull expiring? Regardless, mid way through 2018 Valtteri had proved he was a better choice than Daniel to the management at Mercedes because they re-signed Valtteri and didn’t contract Daniel to drive for them. This doesn’t mean Daniel couldn’t have won more races next year than what Mercedes expect Valtteri to win, he probably would have. What it means is the Mercedes management preferred Valtteri even though his level of skill was slightly … “different” than that of Daniel. Maybe that means he will obey Team Orders to let Lewis pass him.
      Currently, the driver of a Mercedes powered car with the most WDC points outside of Mercedes is Sergio Perez, so there’s still no reason to believe he shouldn’t be the one to drive alongside Lewis if it was decided someone better than Valtteri was wanted.

      1. Go Sergio Perez. Quite nicely argued @drycrust

      2. @drycrust I don’t think I’ve ever heard Wolff/Mercedes talk about Perez. Wolff had always been close to Bottas, and the latter showed plenty of impressive performances between 2014-2016 and arguably shone more than Perez in that period (in better machinery for two of those years, though).

        I’m not sure if Mercedes rate Perez highly even today. Earlier this year, when asked about future candidates for the Merc seat, Wolff mentioned Ocon, whom he called “my little treasure” and surprisingly he also mentioned Sainz, calling him a “special talent”. He also ended up giving some indirect praise to Hulkenberg when he said that if Sainz could do well against him, his stock would rise quite a bit. No mention of Perez, however. Considering how the driver lineup at Ferrari is shaping up for the future, his chances of a getting a top seat are virtually the same as Hulkenberg at the moment; close to none.

        1. Wolff mentioned Ocon, whom he called “my little treasure”

          @neutronstar – oh, that just sounds creepy from Toto :-)
          Also, Susie & her kid both called to say they’re jealous.

          1. @phylyp 😂😂

            Ocon recently called Toto his “own personal psychologist” as well, so…

        2. Yes, would be a travesty if hulkenberg and perez never get a chance to prove themselves at a current top team.

      3. @drycrust I think it is likely TW either had no interest in Perez, or Perez was contractually tied up. Also we don’t know for a fact that they were ever considering DR, do we?

    7. Is Horner seriously bashing Renault yet again today or is this a rehash of an older story?
      It seems like RB, Max, Marko and Horner go about making sure that at least 3 stories a week come out where they tell everyone how crap Renault is.

      Classy stuff boys! You are certainly making me want Renault to get better next year and beat you. Was that your aim or an unintended consequence of your petty comments? I am sure I am not alone here in feeling this.

      1. @mickharrold you are not alone. it is highly reminiscent of mclaren touting their ‘fantastic’ chassis last year – look how that panned out.

        1. @frood19
          Mclaren was nowhere last year and nowhere this year. Thats how that “panned out”. RB has already proven their chassis, against Mclaren amongst others…

      2. @mickharrold It is really your remark that is the petty one. You ask a question then assume some extreme answer for yourself (the 3 times a week remark) and then run with that and hope for them to be beat because of your invented scenario. Ya I think you should own this silliness on your own.

        1. @robbie
          OK, I will take your criticism and listen. I can see the irony in me being critical about RB being critical.
          However, I don’t come on here (or any forum) and complain about RB. I am actually mostly a RB fan. But I have had enough of listening to them criticise Renault.

          The truth is that I just don’t get it. Why are they so intent on burning that bridge? Yeah, Renault delivered a poor engine for them. I was (am still) annoyed about that too.

          OK, maybe 3 times a week was over the top too. I read a lot of news sites, so it feels like that. But it seriously must be at least once a week that someone from RB delivers a negative story about Renault. I don’t think I am making that up. They have been complaining about Renault for a long time, but it has been sporadic. However in the last 3 months, it must be a story a week.

          You think I am wrong. Take a look around. A quick check will find a story each from Horner, Marko and Verstappen. I am just talking about this week mind you. That is 3 stories from 3 people this week having a go at Renault.

          I am sorry, but I don’t like it and I don’t see the point of doing it.

          1. @mickharrold Yeah I just don’t know if it is even a new story a week, and for me I don’t even take it as digs at Renault so much as them wanting us to know they themselves can build a good car, and perhaps they want their staff to know they know that too.

            You’re not wrong to ask why they would be so intent on running Renault down, which is why I’m quite sure they are not really. I highly doubt these professionals need waste their time saying the same things over and over again, when we ourselves could see how good the car was, but lacked that extra bit of oomph. I think this is likely off-season type ‘news.’ And it’s neither here nor there anyway. There is no longer a bridge to burn. They’ve both moved on, which is why I think these are old quotes being repeated, or the same questions being asked over and over.

            1. @robbie I agree that the intent in their minds is to build their team morale up for next year. Give everyone hope.
              But they are running Renault down with every comment. Whether that is intended or not is irrelevant. It is happening. And it is at least 1 story a week from someone at RB.

              They have been doing it for a long time. I actually get why they did it when they were still partners. I even agreed with it as I think the pressure helped Renault get better. RB were frustrated and out of options, so open criticism was all that was left to them. But once they split, the pressure they apply on Renault no longer helps RB. So what is the point of it.

              It doesn’t help them at all now and it only opens them up for criticism next year if they don’t perform. And god forbid Honda doesn’t perform next year. At least Honda know what is coming their way I guess. We all do.

          2. @mickharrold is ee recent remarks from Renault/Abiteboul aimed at or against the cooperation between RB and Honda. ( interview motorsport magazine) and the spanish Marca: “they manipulated the figures to look good and withhold information”
            Trying to discredit the bhp numbers RB aired and claiming to have a much stronger engine compared with Honda. At least 20Kw more power for Renault compared with Honda.
            So, next year is a watershed for Renault .
            Lets see how they develop and if the engine really is on par with merc/fer as they claim now.
            ( as they did several years on a row by now ;)

    8. I think you mean horsepower.
      – You don’t say. I didn’t expect Lowe to say something like that.
      – I thoroughly agree with the COTD.

    9. On the W Series embarrassment: Tatuus doesn’t even acknowledge the series on their website, and they make the chassis. No surprise. I wonder how many other “partners” of this series hide their lights?

      Imagine a black-only, or Jewish-only, race series. There would be uproar. Quite right too. This can’t end well.

      1. Ok………………..

    10. This aint the top20 drivers and obviously Bottas doesnt have to prove himself. Classic Wolf.

    11. It is without a doubt that with factory mercedes or ferrari engine redbull would be serious championship contenders.

      1. @socksolid
        And with the Red Bull chassis theres no doubt Williams would be serious championship contend… On a second thought ill take that back.

        1. Only thing red bull is lacking is the engine. They have everything else. Good chassis, good drivers, good development team, lots of money. What does williams have? Good engine. Giving good chassis to williams does not solve their other issues. Red bull doesn’t have those other issues. They have just one issue.

          With good engine red bull for sure would be championship contenders. Not winning it effortlessly but at least they could compete.

          1. No way Williams would be championship contenders with Stroll and whoever their other driver was this year

            1. I meant to say williams has only one good thing. The mercedes engines. All the rest is not good (drivers, budgets, cfd program, engineering team, development resources…) so if you gave the mercedes car chassis to williams they would not be winning because they are still lacking in all other areas. Whereas red bull only has one issue that keeps them out of the championship fight. The engine.

          2. @socksolid, well i agree for most of your text but there is one very serious problem RBR should fix before Verstappen of Gasly will have a chance for a title: reliability!
            Yes, the renault engine was crap on serveral occasions but there were a pletora of other problems to fix. Gearbox, brakes, exhaust, clutch etc..
            Compare the reliability of i.e. Ferrari with RBR and the difference is a class on is own!

    12. Brands Hatch is on the perifery of London. Just saying…

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