Carlos Sainz Jnr, McLaren, Paul Ricard, 2019

Sainz piles up the points despite Norris’s qualifying edge

2019 team mate battles: Sainz vs Norris

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McLaren overhauled its driver line-up in the off-season as Fernando Alonso and Stoffel Vandoorne moved on. Luckily for their replacements, the team has also produced a much more competitive car.

Carlos Sainz Jnr and Lando Norris therefore have plenty to be happy about. Each has bagged some impressive results, the pair get on well and McLaren has already confirmed both will remain at the team for the 2020 F1 season.

Three races in, Sainz would have been forgiven for feeling somewhat nervous about his situation, as he failed to get a point on the board while Norris stunned with a top 10 qualifying position on his debut. An engine failure in the first race and collision with Max Verstappen and Daniil Kvyat in the next two races set Sainz back.

Then Sainz’s luck changed, and since then he’s led the charge for McLaren. He went into the summer break in fine shape off the back of two fifth places in a row, even beating Pierre Gasly on merit and closing to within five points of the Red Bull driver in the championship.

Norris has been consistently the stronger of the pair in qualifying and picked out qualifying in Australia as one of his season highlights so far. “Before we were not even really talking about getting into Q3,” he explained, “it was about ‘this is what we have to do to get into Q2’ and so on. To get into Q3 and P8 or wherever I was, that was the first big surprise. Which was very good for me.”

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However he admitted he didn’t take the most from the opportunity in his first race. “In the race, I wasn’t under-prepared but there was a lot of things going on, I was nervous as hell and just a lot of things which gets through at you and all of a sudden.”

Lando Norris, McLaren, Silverstone, 2019
Norris has played it safe at the starts
Bahrain went better. “I got knocked down, had to do some overtaking, manage the tyres quite a bit, strategy came into play, then you have to think about it a lot more.”

Converting those strong qualifying performance in into points-scoring finishes hasn’t always been straightforward. Norris tends to be more cautious at the starts, preferring to ensure he gathers the important race mileage each time out and is around at the chequered flag to bag points.

On more than on occasion Sainz has come past him early on and stayed there until the end. Norris has also lost points to mechanical misfortune though, notable in France and Germany.

Between them, Norris and Sainz have amassed enough points for McLaren to feel very confident in their chances of holding on to fourth in the world championship. But Norris must also fancy his chances of cutting into his team mate’s lead in the second half of the season.

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Carlos Sainz Jnr vs Lando Norris: Key stats

Carlos Sainz Jnr vs Lando Norris: Who finished ahead at each round

AUSBAHCHIAZESPAMONCANFRAAUTGREGERHUN
Carlos Sainz JnrQ
R
Lando NorrisQ
R

Carlos Sainz Jnr vs Lando Norris: Qualifying gap

Times based on the last qualifying round at each race weekend in which both drivers set a time

2019 F1 season

Browse all 2019 F1 season articles

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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33 comments on “Sainz piles up the points despite Norris’s qualifying edge”

  1. I like this driver pairing and if McLaren continue their genuinely impressive improvements, I think they could do very well for them.

    1. Lando has made some bad getaways and mclaren has consistently got landos strategy wrong, if it wasn’t by that, sainz jr would be some way behind Lando. Judging by sainz jr career thus far, Lando is mclaren material but sainz isn’t, sainz jr was good enough for the team last season, running 15th. Crushed by Max, crushed by Hulk and now beaten by a rookie.

      1. Sainz has more than double the points Norris has, if anyone is getting crushed, it is Norris.

      2. @peartree let me check if I have understood this:
        – 2015: Sainz 18 points, Verstappen 49 -> Verstappen crushed Sainz (fair enough)
        – 2016: Sainz 46 points, Kvyat 25 (with 4 races in RBR). No mention
        – 2017: Sainz 54 points, Hulk 43, Kvyat 5. No mention
        – 2018: Sainz 53 points, Hulk 69 -> Hulk crushed Sainz (crushed is probably a strong word here)
        – 2019: Sainz 58 points, Norris 24 -> Sainz beaten by a rookie.

        Up to 2018 one could blame selective memory. When you keep insisting that he’s being beaten this year even he has more than twice the points, it then instantly becomes irrational hatred.

        sainz jr was good enough for the team last season, running 15th

        He finished 10th though. Did any of your former girlfriends dump you for a spaniard? Your comments regarding Alonso were quite similar.

  2. Norris is, like many English youngsters who show promise in any sport – football, for example – grossly overrated. Blame it on the overwhelming representation of the English in the reporting of many worldwide sports – when an English youngster shows promise, the hype machine goes into overdrive, heaps unmanageable pressure on the poor kid, and usually results in the kid never living up to expectations.

    1. I don’t quite see how that’s the case. He was excellent in basically every single junior categories he was involved in, convincingly winning F3 in his first season, and then he came 2nd in the championship in F2 in also his first season in that category, despite being only 18 at the time. Which is hugely impressive, especially also if you consider the fact that his F2 rivals, Albon and Russell, had experience on Pirellis prior to 2018, while he didn’t. He’s no Verstappen, probably not even a Leclerc, but he’s sure as hell good enough for F1 and in the right car, has the potential to be one of the top 3 drivers in F1. If you believe his potential is less than that of 80-85% of the F1 grid, then you are deluding yourself.

      1. @mashiat Let’s not forget it took Max Verstappen three and half seasons to stop making silly errors and crashing in wheel to wheel racing.

        In addition Max is in Season Five of his F1 career now, hitting 100 race starts before the end of the year. Lando has 12….it’s not correct to compare 2H18-1H19 Max to 1H19 Lando! 2021 season will give a more accurate comparison.

        I’m NOT arguing that Norris is on a par with Max but it’s too early to judge, Max arrived with a surge of hype and was fast but very rough for his first three and half seasons.

        The OP seems to have a chip on his shoulder, reminds me of a poster last year who would only bitterly criticise Lando in every post, creating the impression they had come up against him and lost in junior series (maybe online)!

        1. Ironcly Max had a rough start in his 4th season while his first 3 have been quite clean, donno why people mention he crashed a lot, the opposite is true…
          In his rookie year he crashed only ones and spun after at Silverstone… In his second year it was Monaco again..other than that hardly any mistakes. Max was halfway his 3rd season when he inflicted damage on another’s car for the very first time in F1… his team mate. The incidents in 2018 have been exaggerated dramatically as well, yes it was rough, but there where mechanical issues in Aus and Bah, raceincidents two driver where to blame for in Bah and Aze. Spinning with Vettel in China and crashing in FP3 at Monaco have been his biggest sinns…

          About Norris…. his qualifying skills do amaze me, last season in F2 that was Norris’ weak spot, his quali skills have been rather poor.

    2. Yeah, that Beckham kid was really terrible at football.

      1. Its true that english media tend to be a little overwhelming with Hype on the youngsters; but I disagree about Norris being that overrated. True; the way the British media presented him in F2 was that the championship would be his, and we know how this turned out. But for a rookie season he really impressed me, he’s fast, consistent and shows much more maturity than established drivers. Hes doing a consistent season, amassing points to the team; and he looks really stable under pressure and works well with Carlos. Overall he’s doing much better than I anticipated. He’s maybe not the brightest ever driver, but he is showing that he adapted really quickly to F1 environment, playing safe when needed and exploring every opportunity too improve as a driver.

    3. Don’t feed the anons! Lando is so overrated Red Bull wanted him.

      1. Red Bull wanted him for their Junior team – Torro Rosso, as a replacement for Hartley during the 2018 season. Lando is a good driver and is having a decent rookie season, but lets not exaggerate…

  3. McLaren is basically guaranteed 4th place at this point. I think they should focus on major developments for next year, instead of looking for some small short-term gains for this season. With James Key focussing on 2020 as well, I’m excited to see McLaren’s progress next season. Even if they can get to within 0.5-0.6s of the top 3 teams, that would be a considerable improvement.

    But also, on a somewhat unrelated note, I don’t think people are giving Renault enough grief for what they have done this season. They have basically done a McLaren in 2018, by promising quite a bit to fans and their star driver and then delivering hugely underwhelming performances. I seriously think that Cyril Abiteoul’s position should be put under scrutiny, as he has done nothing to prove that he is capable of bringing a team to the front. Renault basically is in a worse position now than they were in 2017 in terms of performances, which says it all really.

    1. @mashiat Renault….terrible 2019. Agree on your point about Cyril, Renault would benefit from new leadership, they have to be ready for the 2021 changes. It’s season four for the team, I guess (from our sofas!) we all expected them to be bridging the gap to the front teams by now.

  4. I think McLaren have done very well for themselves with this driver combo. Neither of them has made any really silly mistakes. They both seem to bring the car home, which is vital. Sainz is aggressive but not crazy, Lando is learning and getting points. You really can’t ask for more at this point. I really don’t think they would be better if ALO was still there to be honest. If they keep improving, they will be nipping at the heels of RBR and Ferrari soon. Good for them.

  5. Norris seems to have the raw pace, but Sainz’ experience and racecraft seem to be paying dividends. Considering how Sainz was beaten last year by Hulk, it does beg the question as to what Alonso could be doing in this car. Although, maybe he was a bit of a toxic influence on the team and the more easy-going, fun-loving duo of Sainz and Norris could really be helping morale and motivation within the team.

  6. Was McLaren really had been produced a much more competitive car or Fernando Alonso – Stoffel Vandoorne were just not as good as Carlos Sainz Jnr – Lando Norris?

    1. @ruliemaulana I hope this isn’t a genuine question.

      1. @mashiat I hope someone could prove me wrong and explain how much faster 2019 McLaren would be if Alonso and/or Vandoorne drive them.

        1. I can’t say much about Vandoorne, but Alonso needs no explanation. He has raced the best, like Hamilton and Vettel, and had his elbows out everytime the car could handle him. None of them would like to hear that Alonso is closing in. He was the mesure when Hamilton was trying to prove himself.

          For me the only reason he’s out is because of his attitudes. Not sure if Briatore has anything to do with his choices and behavior.

          He did wonders with that black McLaren Honda when the engine stopped giving up around mid season.

          1. I don’t care about Alonso attitude. I only need scientific projection on how much faster he would drive current car to justified the statement that McLaren has made much more competitive car.

          2. @ruliemaulana If you are seriously questioning whether or not the 2019 McLaren car is quicker than the 2018 McLaren car, I’m at a loss for words. Even the McLaren engineers would laugh at you. And as for if Sainz or Norris is better than Alonso, common sense should answer that question. And do you seriously expect a full detailed scientific projection on how much faster Alonso would be compared to Sainz or Norris given that they haven’t even raced against each other? And if you’re holding that as your main argument, I’d like to state that I believe Stroll is considerably better than Verstappen. Nobody can disprove me. We know for a fact that Sainz is a driver who is no better than Hulkenberg, who is not even close to being WDC material. And if you want proof of McLaren’s progress, Sainz scored 53 points in all 21 races of 2018 with the 4th best car. This season, he already has 58 points just 12 races into the season. And this is the exact same driver. The main difference? The performance of the car.

          3. @mashiat McLaren engineers had the right to laugh at me if I’m wrong. But you can’t present your feeling as a fact without a number to back it up.

          4. @ruliemaulana, the problem is that, with the amount of information that the average fan has at their disposal, the question that you have asked is effectively unanswerable with the degree of precision that you are demanding.

            We can make some rough educated guesses about the relative competitiveness of the car from the occasional hints we get from bursts of telemetry that are shown on the TV and the relative straight line speeds of the cars.

            Those do seem to indicate that the 2019 car is probably more aerodynamically efficient than the 2018 car, in as much as the team are able to remain reasonably competitive in both the speed traps and in the corners as well, and that seems to be the case both in race and qualifying trim.

            We do not have the means to be able to then put a precise figure on that though, because we really do not know enough about the performance indicators of the 2018 and 2019 cars to be able to quantify their performance potential – for example, the downforce to drag ratio of those two cars would be some way of estimating that, but it is also something we’re very unlikely to ever know.

            However, given that, back in July 2018, McLaren indicated the MCL33 produced less downforce than the MCL32 did – presumably using the end of season MCL32 as a reference – it is perhaps not unreasonable to suggest that the MCL33 is likely to have had a worse downforce to drag ratio than the current car, though how much so is difficult to tell.

            We sort of have a vague indication from the practise sessions that Norris ran last year, where he alternated between taking Alonso’s place and Vandoorne’s place in FP1. In those handful of sessions, Norris generally seemed to end up being quicker than Vandoorne, but a little behind Alonso (perhaps a tenth or two) – however, even those performances still have the caveats that we don’t know the full details of the programmes that those drivers were following at the time, relative fuel loads, engine mapping and so forth, so we cannot be 100% sure of the comparison there.

            Furthermore, in 2018 Norris would still have been getting to grips with the car in those practise sessions, and getting to grips with F1 cars in general – whereas, this year, having had the benefit of being able to test the car from the start and being more involved in the development process, some of those issues will potentially have been addressed and helped get Norris up to speed.

            With that, I would say that putting a definite and precise number in the way that you ask for is probably impossible. We can maybe, at best, hypothesise from the 2018 free practise figures that Alonso could be a bit faster than Norris, and as Norris has tended to be the slightly faster of the two over a single lap, he might therefore also be quicker than Sainz – but putting a precise figure on what is a rather open ended question is really not possible in these circumstances.

          5. In those handful of sessions, Norris generally seemed to end up being quicker than Vandoorne, but a little behind Alonso (perhaps a tenth or two)

            I think this was a good reference point.

        2. @ruliemaulana to be honest I have the impression McLaren hasn’t exploited full capacity of their car/development under that period. Vandoorne, while highly rated, was barely considered and Alonso was running the team. A good driver feedback is indeed required to develop a good car but I had the impression Alonso was putting his nose a bit too far into that and disturbed more than he helped… Not sure he is the best driver to develop a car around as history shows (he has been driving some good cars but for some reasons the goods fade away as the seasons went).

          Vandoorne was highly praised for his driving and technical feedback in lower categories and during F1 he did. This surely didn’t vanish all of a sudden, but my guess is the focus was so much on Alonso that he didn’t have any chances.
          Combined with the fact McLaren was convinced to have a good chassis and the engine was the week part. It took some hard time for McLaren to find the right path and begin to catch-up which I am glad they did. While I am a bit sad about Vandoorne stint and I still believe he has more his place in F1 than Ocon, I think it was good for McLaren to turn the page and start fresh with two new drivers.

          1. @jeanrien Interesting view. I could agree on Vandoorne should have his chance in F1.

  7. This pair really have helped me grow to really like McLaren. I disagree with Guenther Steiner saying he doesn’t mind if his drivers don’t get along – seeing how Sainz & Norris get along is really good and I’d bet it’s certainly a factor in how good this pairing have done.

    Also I’m kinda impressed with both of them. I thought Norris was a little overrated coming into F1 but he’s shown a lot of promise and potential, and Sainz looked average in the Renault but in the McLaren he looks comfortable and fast. Norris seems very good for the future and Sainz clearly likes the change of scenery and atmosphere at McLaren.

    I still think McLaren are heading to a glass ceiling in terms of performance as a customer team and really shouldn’t have ditched Honda, but so far they’re showing Renault up badly and both drivers are doing great. Good year for them so far.

    1. They did OK in 2010, ’11 and ’12 as a customer Mercedes team.

    2. I still think McLaren are heading to a glass ceiling in terms of performance as a customer team and really shouldn’t have ditched Honda

      @rocketpanda – I’m not this pessimistic, but I’m definitely curious/eager to see how much McLaren can advance.

      Right now, my benchmark is the 2018 RBR for a Renault customer. On that basis, if McLaren can be 4th in the WCC in 2020, but widen the pace gap between 4th and 5th to what the gap between 3rd and 4th is today, then I’ll be mighty impressed. i.e. essentially, leave the midfield and join the big league.

      I have confidence that the wider McLaren group have the depth of engineering talent to achieve this, since their road-going sports cars are well-regarded even today in terms of chassis and aero. Whether they can bring that talent to bear in the narrow focus that F1 requires remains to be seen. As long as they’re powered by Renault, I don’t see them (yet) being able to challenge higher than 4th*, but the gap ahead of them needs closing down significantly.

      1. Everyone is so Bold today

  8. It would be interesting to include mechanical retirements in the above stats. I seem to think Norris has had more car problems/grid penalties from changes/lost FP & race time due to car problems.

    I might be misremembering the season so far mind you.

  9. This driver line-up has really made McLaren likeable again. Retaining these two for the next year makes sense for McL as they try to close up the gap to the Top 3.

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