New plans for New York Grand Prix track in 2013

2011 F1 season

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New York 2013 F1 track plan

New plans for an F1 race in New York have been revealed by the Wall Street Journal.

The mayors of Weehawken and West New York, Richard Turner and Felix Roque, have backed the plan for a race on streets alongside the Hudson river which could take place in 2013.

They said: “In these uncertain economic times when every direct and indirect revenue source is vital, our own Formula 1 race could be a very positive boost to our citizens.

“This said, we need to ensure that the financial benefits from the privilege of having these races in our towns are equitably shared and that no tax dollars are used. The investor group has already told us that our towns would be substantially compensated annually.”

The mayors are in discussion with businessman Leo Hindery and a group of potential investors.

Hindery is the founder of private equity fund InterMedia. In 2009 he made an unsuccessful bid to purchase the Chicago Cubs baseball team through the fund.

Hindery also races: he finished first in the GT2 class in the 2005 Le Mans 24 Hours, sharing a Porsche 911 GT3 with Mike Rockenfeller and Mark Lieb.

A provisional circuit diagram was also revealed:

If the race were to take place, it would be the second American round alongside the Austin Grand Prix, which will take place for the first time next year.

Bernie Ecclestone has been trying to arrange an F1 race in New York since the 1970s. A race at a new track planned for the Queens’ district was put on the 1983 calendar but failed to materialise.

In 2010 a plan for a race in Liberty State Park appeared, but failed to gain the support of officials.

Ecclestone outlined his vision for a race in New York as recently as last year, saying he would like a race, “in front of Manhattan in New Jersey, with the skyscrapers in the background.

“Fifteen minutes from the centre of New York to the circuit would be marvellous.”

F1 teams have also expressed a desire to see two races in America. In the F1 Fans’ Forum in June FOTA chairman Martin Whitmarsh said: “America doesn’t need us, but we need to conquer it.

“Maybe we need to have two races a year and a proper marketing programme.”

He added: “We’ve got to be on the east coast and the west coast. It’s a big enough market and an important enough market to have two races and we should be over there.”

F1 held a round of the world championship at Watkins Glen in New York from 1961 to 1980.

F1 in New York

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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178 comments on “New plans for New York Grand Prix track in 2013”

  1. I like the look of the proposed layout and a race in NYC would be brilliant, but we’re probably going to have to lose another track to accommodate it if it does happen. As long as it isn’t a good venue that gets the axe, then I’m all for it.

    1. make way valencia xD

      1. I would prefer to lose Barcelona.

        1. My vote for the axe goes to Bahrain.

          1. With Russia and Austin coming we will lose more than one race. Whether it will be great tracks but low-paying or bad tracks but high-paying all depends on Ecclestone.

          2. Sadly Fixy is quite right on that. Turkey will be gone, I am not too sure about Malaysia long term, as Singapore is right next door and we still might see Bahrain dropped, and I think Bernie is seriously working towards having only one GP in Spain in a few years so that is looking OK.
            But both German tracks and Spa stay weak as well, so they might still be dropped to make place.

          3. +1.

            Bahrain is to go!

      2. i think hungary will be kicked… there were also some rumors about the catalunya circuit, weren’t it? think because of the second spain gp in valencia…

        and the in melbourne by government financed gp is also critical, i think.

    2. Well Spa’s contract runs out 2012 as far as i know. Its likley that will be one possible victim unless this French/Belgian shaing happens

      1. I think Spa is one of the prestigeous tracks on par with the likes of Monza, Monaco. That’d be a disaster if Bernie removed Spa from the calendar. Bernie is quite unpredictable(except for his greediness towards $$$), but I guess he’s not that an idiot who will set long-time fans of F1 worldwide into fury.

      2. unfortunately, i have to agree.

        there are certain tracks that should have heritage status and never fall off the F1 calendar. spa is one of them. bernie though? he follows the coin, so you can virtually guarantee he’d bin a lower paying spa over a higher paying bahrain.

    3. William Wilgus
      4th August 2011, 12:08

      The proposed track is in New Jersey, not New York. Both Weehawken and West New York are in the State of New Jersey.

    4. I agree Dan. I don’t really like street races, but I think in a place like America, a Singapore-style Grand Prix would work best. I’d actually love to see this happen, because it would look spectacular and it would be more likely to attract locals. But with Austin already going ahead, I don’t think it’s necessary. If Austin hadn’t been confirmed, I think this probably would have been better.

      And yes, we’ll just get rid of Valencia and all will be fine!

  2. Chances are, we’d lose one of the less interesting GPs. Spa perhaps. Or Silverstone. Not to worry, Abu Dhabi is safe ;)

    1. Don’t tempt the fate-bear aka Ecclestone :(

    2. Spa perhaps. Or Silverstone.

      Spa is looking at alternating with a French Grand Prix, so it’s unlikely to be dropped.

      As for Silverstone, it is on a seventeen-year contract. Bernie has never dropped a race in the middle of a contract before, and especially not because he got a better offer from someone else.

      1. It was a joke PM..

    3. Abu Dhabi is the most beautiful track in the world but it is also the least interesting in terms of racing. As motor sports fans we favor track layout over fancy buildings surrounding it.

      Terms must talk. We will need a 22 GPs championship soon…

  3. McLarenFanJamm
    3rd August 2011, 9:02

    What about Bernies mutterings about bot having 2 races in one country?

    Oh, that’s right, he’s a liar. I forgot.

    1. McLarenFanJamm
      3rd August 2011, 9:02

      That should say NOT having two races in one country.

    2. In fairness, there’s a *huge* difference between having two races in a country such as Italy (0.3m, pop 60m) compared to one like the United States (9.8m, pop 300m)!

      1. Yeah, Italy is one of the historical homes of motorsport and many Italians are avid fans of the sport.

        In America F1 has comparatively little fans and F1’s history there has been… checkered.

        1. Yeah, but Italy is a market that will not lose any fans as long as there is one race there and the US is a market that the F1 $$ people want to “conquer”. And lets face it, the schedule and tracks used is based on $$, so if they succeed with 2 tracks in the US and get a fan base here it will be a HUGE success….I don’t think it will go down that way personally, but I’m also not going to complain about having 2 races in the US in 2 of my favorite cities.

          Also, Texas thinks that it’s its own country sooooo, technically….

          1. Steve Calvert
            3rd August 2011, 16:42

            We’re not our own country down here, we’re better than most ;-) though. The COtA track should be a great track, the elevation changes are tremedous overall.

            Heck, we could 2 races here in Texas alone and not run into each other.

    3. Jelle van der Meer (@)
      3rd August 2011, 10:26

      Yeah but Bernie wouldn’t be Bernie is he would call the 2nd race – Americas GP – that is how he solved 2 GP’s in Germany or Spain with European GP.

      Anyway would be interesting and the track layout seems to be more race circuit than the Singaport one.

      1. Or USGP North and South, like we used to have the USGP East and West in the “olden days.”

        1. Don’t be silly with the whole no 2 gp’s in one country. The states represent a land mass as large as europe. In Europe you can travel a stone’s throw from anywhere and be at a gp. In Canada it’s a 5 hour flight for me to get to the Montreal GP, ditto a huge chunk of people in the states to get to Austin. It’s about engaging the market that they’re trying to tap into, and a second gp would go a long way towards this.

          1. For me it’s multiple flights adding up to more like 7 hours to get to Montreal as there are no direct flights from Seattle. Austin is about 5 hours, as is NYC. So even with three North American races there still won’t be anything nearly as accessible for me as the 10,000 different grands Prix for European fans to choose from every summer.

          2. Yay! I look forward to having 2 GPs in Australia too. Afterall the land mass is similar to the US, it takes a long time to fly between Perth and Mellboure, or Sydney, or Brisbane, or Adelaide etc. for that matter. Now would it be the Australaisn Grand Prix East and West, or The Australian GP (country) and the Australian GP (continent), or the Australian GP and the Pacifc Grand Prix, or Australiasian GP?

          3. DVC you’re funny…two gps in Australia…they’re about the lose the only one they even have potentially and no one has talked about that, yet in the forum. Let’s look at it though in a less joking matter the European GP will probably dissapear, we all know Turkey is gone, Bahrain might be gone but most likely wont and then you have Australia which may be gone due to the people. So let’s say all those tracks are dropped those four slots give us for 2013 Russia, New York, and a French GP if they don’t team up with who ever else is trying to get in these days. Point is we could have these new tracks and still keep the classics, but as everyone has said…that’s up to Bernie.

          4. New Jersey I mean*

            Also why are they doing this when they could just put money into Watkins Glen and try to make a deal with the Track owner, not only do we get a second race here in the U.S. but a classic as well!!! Just saying…

      2. To be honest I think New York is an illustrious city enough in itself to just be called the New York Grand Prix. The casual viewer flicking through the TV Time would certainly tune into that. Plus it sounds awesome.

        Then the Austin one would be the United States Grand Prix.

  4. Is it me, or does the proposed track lay out look rather uninspired? Lots of sort-of straights and 90 degree turns.

    1. It doesn’t look like Tilke was involved then. NYC should hire Populous for circuit design.

    2. Lots of 90 degree turns and no straight that is a true straight. don’t see much overtaking possibilities on this

      1. It kind of looks like the old Detroit GP layout.

    3. thats because thats all they have in new york…its all straights with 90 degree turns!

      1. How do you make a decent track layout on a grid system? Having recently walked a fair bit of New York without going through parks its going to be dead straights and right angle corners.

        1. They should make it the perimeter of central park ;-)

          1. It’d be like Tron light cycles!!!

        2. Good question. But this track is not in New York City. It’s not even in New York State. It’s in New Jersey, a fact glossed over by the proponents, and recklessly suggested by the “West New York” place name. Yes, it’s close by, but there is a big difference between having an urban street race in a major metropolis, and having it across the river, in a different state, in a suburb. This will not be Singapore.

          There are good places to do a track in Manhattan. Yes, it could span the park, use the 86th street tunnel from east side to west, use Columbus Circle and the broad Avenues going south to Times Square. All kinds of fabulous options. There are very broad and plenty of non 90 degree intersections to play with. You could have an incredibly fast (and long) course using the West Side Highway or the FDR on the east side, rather than a normal type of short and choppy street course. It could have been awesome. But we will have to enjoy the Grand Prix of Weehawken or West New York instead.

          1. Your Dreaming,you can’t even get the roads closed for a over night movie shoot,never mind for 3 days

          2. That does sound amazing, but I fear a majority of NY citizens would be slightly upset by having all traffic stuck even more for a the GP week :-(

        3. Not in lower manhatten, the old part of the city. But then u get the problem of very narrow roads.

      2. true, but the tracks isn’t in NY

        As far as i know, NY NJ ;)

        1. hmm, doesn’t keep all the characters.
          As i said, NY is not NJ

          1. Please give that top secret information to the Giants and Jets.

        2. If the race was actually in New York you wouldn’t be able to see New York in the back ground on the TV the way you’ll be able to where it is planned to be. That’s what Ecclestone wants: A New York View Grand Prix, not a New York Grand Prix.

          1. You would if it was in Central Park. A race in the streets of Central Park with pits on 5th Ave would rival Monaco! This was proposed in the 60’s but was shot down by the Upper East Side residence because of noise and crowds.

      3. I live on the circuit in West New York and drive parts of the track regularly (those that are accessible) and I can tell you first hand that the elevation changes are impressive. If you zoom into the map you’ll notice that that red line doesn’t follow the layout of the streets. For example on the south side, the red line is drawn directly to Kennedy Blvd. East, which is impossible. The elevation is too steep for a new road. Cars must travel on Pershing Road, which sweeps up a a cliff and has a slight left followed by a 90% right. I also expect there be more turns near ferry blvd (east part of the track) as that’s mostly open space. There is even room for a 270 degree turn at the south east corner as the road west is a ramp, which means there is room underneath it.

        Also, in terms of location, it’s really perfect. The area is accessible by bus (NJ Trasnit), car (from north via George Washington Bridge or south – Lincoln and Holland Tunnels), light rail (which travels to Hoboken), and ferry (from NYC across the Hudson). The backdrop from cameras located around the track will look incredible. Tour busses frequent Weehawken for the views of Manhattan. They are breathtaking and better IMO than their counterparts from across the East River. It should make for great TV.

        Currently a Hotel is on it’s way up near the East Part of the track and I suspect temporary grandstands to be built as well. Overall, it could be great, and I’m not even a fan of F1.

    4. That’s because it’s probably the only layout possible in New York. Otherwise it’d be only 90 degrees turns.

      It’s horrid anyway. I don’t really think we need 2 races in the States. F1 needs the USA, but USA doesn’t need F1. Having 1 races is more than enough.

  5. It’s just a more twisty version of Phoenix. I think it looks awesome, as far as street circuits go this would be much more of an improvement than say Valencia. Get it on the calendar.

    1. Although I’ve hade a look on Google Maps, zoomed right in. There’s essentially a cliff between the railway and the corner at the bottom of the track to the left of the railway where the right-turn (assuming clockwise direction) onto JFK Blvd is.

      There’s no way the circuit will get up there, I’m guessing the circuit will follow the road between it and the railway, up the hill, and join half way along JFK Blvd.

      1. Good spot, ajokay! Even if it went up the other road, where’s the runoff area in the cliff?

        I suppose this is only a rough idea at the moment, and (if the race ever happens) all these things will be ironed out.

        Would be quite interesting, I’d like to see it (live on the BBC, mind).

      2. See what you mean, there’s a set of stairs. The drawn layout clearly goes over that Pershing rd, ending with a sort of natural chicane (also assuming clockwise).

        I could see them construction some sort of great stands in that area though (depending on how much the trees can be pruned, I suppose).

        There are actually quite a few bits that are taken as straights by F1 cars, that whole J.F. Kennedy Blvd. has some bends, but none curved enough to make it a corner, so that’s about 900m with a 90 degrees left hander at the end.

        Then there’s a nice curve on he A.M. Devino Way, 500m straight and then the hairpin, leading onto the Port Imperial Blvd. which, again, is effectively a straight of some 900m, again ending in a 90 degree bend, and then a twisty bit until that railway crossing.

        Actually, I could also see it going anti-clockwise, then those 90degrees corners lead onto a traight, one ending at the hairpin, then a straight bit, a curve, and a flick onto the other straight. Might that be better?

      3. It looks like the proposed circuit is going up ‘County Road 682’. Again assuming clockwise, otherwise where’s the run off coming down that hill into a left 90 corner crossing the railway?

        If they moved this further south, it would extend the circuit but include a lot more residential area. Maybe that’s what they are trying to avoid.

        On the other end of the circuit there’s the safety issue of run-off for the hairpin. This all depends on the entry speed into that hairpin as it could end up being a big passing zone.

        Other than these issues, it looks great. There seems plenty of space to build a nice pit complex by the Hudson and there are great views of New York City.

        Now how much money does Bernie want?

        1. There appears to be quite some space at the hairpin to get some runoff.

      4. That’s a dubious map. If you look at the layout in the original WSJ article you can tell that the circuit does in fact utilize the existing bridge over the railway and then Pershing Rd up to JFK Blvd. I’m very curious which direction the circuit is planned to run, as that would definitely have an impact on overtaking opportunities.

        1. I just had a look at the pictures taken of NY from there, and it should do the job for PR reasons with the skyline.
          As for Layout, it looks like they tried to go around the hill/park area to get less problems with the locals (but those beavers?). Personally I think a anti-clockwise migth make more sense, having the straight in Port imperial Blvrd as pitlane for access and ending in a hairpin and then going up hill over Antony M.Devino towards JFK Boulevard

  6. That looks like a pretty good track! Though technically it’s West New York ;-) Hope that’s what it’ll be named, “West New York” will be a big enough draw for the event without having to pretend it’s actually in New York!

    1. People will think it’s sponsored by a brand of German cancer-sticks, like the late-90s McLarens. ;)

  7. If they manage to tap into the US market they won’t need the UK viewers. Perhaps that’s why Bernie approved the Sky deal.
    Have just come back from a trip to that part of NJ, and the view there is stunning. Public transport would need to improve though – it’s infrequent and badly signed.

    1. F1atics,

      @your complaint on Public Transit.
      “If I can make it there, Ill make it Anywhere…” Its more of a challenge than an encouragment.


  8. I feel for New Jersey, New York’s uglier, forgotten sister. becasue this circuit is clearly in New Jersey, but no-one’s gonna be allowed to know that. It’ll be “New York this” and “New York that”.

    The layout looks good though, has flashes of Circuit Gilles Villeneuve about it.

    1. Yeah it’s totally in New Jersey, not only are they different cities, but different states. It should really be the New Jersey Grand Prix. Tricky part would working out who pays for it. Why would the people of New Jersey want to pay for it, when it’s really going to benefit New York, and why would New York want to pay for it, when it’s actually located in New Jersey.

      Having said that it does look like a good layout through, and if this picture is anything to go by they are already putting the barriers in place. Haha.

      Maybe Bernie is putting some plans in place to have the state borders redrawn to squeeze this into New York, or maybe he is planning to turn his daughters new house it a hotel, and build a race track ’round that; certainly enough room.

      1. The other good thing with this location is it looks like there is light rail running right through the guts of the circuit, and close to ferries from Manhattan.

        1. I didn’t think that was light rail, but looked it up and you’re right. It runs down to a mall that is right across the Holland Tunnel from where I always stay in NYC. Sounds like getting there should be a breeze.

        2. Good! Hopefully that will interfere with the team radio, like it does in Singapore, and the drivers will have to think for themselves a bit!

      2. You have to realize. NYC has been usurping this part of NJ for decades. NY Giants and NY Jets NFL stadium is in NJ.

        NYC claims ownership of Ellis Island and Statue of Liberty while current and old maps clearly show these on the NJ side of the river.

        People who live in NJ, but work in NYC must pay income tax to NY as well as NJ.

        1. Wow, and we were arguing about EU states fighting it out at times!

  9. I can only echo the opinions of those above. It does look good and the idea of a New York GP is very attractive – however, if it means losing one of the established, well loved circuits, I would not be at all as enthralled. I’d happily lose one of Barcelona or Valencia (preferably Valencia!) and Bahrain, but I can’t see that happening.

    The calender can’t be extended more than it already is, yet new tracks are always exciting… it’s a bit of a dilemma!

    1. I’d happily lose one of Barcelona or Valencia (preferably Valencia!)

      Bernie has implied that they could alternate.

      1. I did see that a while ago – I would be perfectly happy with that should it be confirmed.

        I don’t begrudge Spain a race – but two (especially two such dull ones) is slightly beyond what they should have!

      2. I like the sound of that! Would prefer to lose Catalunya though… Never did very well on the games at that track :(

  10. Looks like a Melbourne-like circuit…
    Doesnt look bad, but I’m afraid we will have to pay the price for it by loosing another good track (maybe Melbourne)

  11. This is stupid, there is a fantastic vibe at the canadian gp thanks to candians, americans and this would undermine it. The canadians love F1 and the americans (generally) have been indifferent.

    1. F1 and the americans (generally) have been indifferent.

      Be wary of generalisation with a country as large as the USA.

      Americans are the second largest group of users on F1 Fanatic and I know there are many passionate F1 fans in America. Just look at the public support the Austin race had at their recent council meeting on funding for the race, for example.

      1. Or the turnout to the Tony Stewart – Lewis Hamilton demo at Watkins Glen.

        1. I can speak for the Hamilton-Stewart turnout myself, as I was there in-person. Even on a cold, rainy Tuesday afternoon, there was a still a bigger crowd in the stands than what you would find at some of the newer, less-established GPs. of course having Tony Stewart there was a big part of that, but I was surprised by how many people had McLaren gear on and were cheering for Lewis when he walked around the pitlane.

          Plus, don’t forget that lots and lots of those fans in the stands in Montreal are Americans. A friend of mine from here in Northeast Pennsylvania has been a marshall at the Canadian GP for several years.

          Lastly, the appeal of a GP is worldwide, so there will be plenty of Europeans, etc.. in attendance. With so many direct flights to New York, it would be most easy to reach from all across Europe and South America.

          1. From what I saw it was a great crowd. I think having a bit more regular GPs can help viewership in the US enormously, as it will also mean a few more races in acceptable time zones and having larger scale coverage (Oh, and having that on Fox might mean all avid fans will have to grab a grandstand seat not to be annoyed from the coverage :-) )

            As its a pretty small proportion of the population now, it should be manageble to get to above a million regular followers in the US.

      2. How about a Brit who lives in the US.

        I love this track – it pretty much goes right past my house!

        They would need to do some serious work on the potholes though. Jersey City has some of the crappiest roads in the state.

        1. Meh, just increase the ride height, they’ll be fine :-)

      3. Steve Calvert
        3rd August 2011, 16:49

        Keith, zecks won’t hurt most of our feelings – we know we’re (in)different. Most of beleieve that once the track here in Austin gets finished and people from around the world come and enjoy Texas (and the race of course) they eill want to come back. I’m not so sure about having two races in the states but like you’ve said, we’re big.

      4. Stereotypes are fun!

      5. Keith,
        Thanks for standing up for us on this side.

        To further the point, Americans, truly do have a TINY percentage of population as F1 fans, especially when compared to our European bretheren. However, the total percentage of AutoRacing fans is ENORMOUS.

        Millions and Millions turn out for Nascar and IndyCar, and ALMS every year.

        My sense is that F1 has done a stupendously horrible job at tapping these fans. I know many folks with long histories of following US racing, that barely even know F1 exists… Most think its a European branch of Indy Car with a fancy name. (Sorry, we Americans think we invented everything)

        As far as Canada is concerned…
        Most people in the lower 48 will mock anything that comes out of Canada as the entire country is but a speck on the cultural or entertainment map. The race is at nearly 400 miles from any major US population center – (Birmingham to Paris) too far for all but the die-hards.

        An F1 Race in Austin is a direct stab, straight into the heart of Nascar territory, and I think its a good start. The F1 Demon machines will stur the Southerns once they get past the meddeling of FIA stewardship.

        If Berni could pull in the North East crowd with the Opulance, and Glamore of F1, he would successfully pull in the entire country.

        1. Most people in the lower 48 will mock anything that comes out of Canada as the entire country is but a speck on the cultural or entertainment map.

          And in trying to defend your countrymen, you alienate another country…

          Typical American.

          It should have read…
          Most people in the lower 48 will mock anything that comes out of Canada as the entire country is but a speck on what Americans think is the cultural or entertainment map.

          1. To be fair, from my reading that was what the post said, through context, after the invented everything etc.

          2. @bosyber

            Ah yes, I see it now. Apologies javlinsharp.

            We Canadians are very sensitive aboot our culture.

          3. Apologies Cacarella, No offense intended. I was commenting on how many Americans might view Canada, certinally not my own views. And in an off hand way, pointing out the typical close-mindedness I observe in my countrymen.

      6. Hey i know this dont mean much but Americans will show up to a F1 race. If we look back a few years ago at the 2000 USGP that race drew a attendance figure of 250,000 people thats alot more then alot of races draw. The big reason for the attendance drop at indy was after the whole tire problem happened and the people in the usa felt robbed and said they will not ever come back. So yea people will come to F1 races in the usa as long as its done right

    2. Seems to me that almost every country that is holding a Grand Prix is giving the appearance of being “indifferent” to F1 and proof in the pudding is by looking at the empty grand stands. If your nation loves F1 as you seem to think it does then why aren’t the grand stands full?

      Maybe a 100,000 or so attend an event but behind that are multiple millions of fans who follow the sport like it is religion.

      If the Grand Prix of the Americas gets it right then there may be some hope that all of you doubters will give us a break.

      American Race Fans are just like you and with hope our Formula One race will do it right and will become one of the more exciting venues to watch and witness.

  12. The streets seem to be quite narrow like in Monte Carlo.

  13. As a native New Yorker if this does materialise I might die

    1. As a native New Yorker if you cross the street you might die.

      And I wouldn’t breathe in if I were you. ;)

      1. As a native New Yorker he knows how to cross the street without dying. It’s always easy to spot tourists standing at crosswalks in Manhattan.

  14. And no one thought of bringing back Watkins Glen? :'(

    Don’t get me wrong, It’ll be good to see this track in action!

    1. When was the last time a pre-exisitng track was host to a new Grand Prix though?

      Fuji did on 2007, but the track was very different to the original layout. You could argue that the Nurburgring was used for a new race (European/Luxembourg) in the late 90’s. Aida was already 2 years old by the time it hosted the 1994 Pacific Grand Prix.

      Lets face it, the shame that is it, if there’s going to be a new or returing grand prix, it’s going to be on a brand new or very heavily revised circuit.

      Which kinda sucks.

      1. James Brickles
        3rd August 2011, 12:10

        The Nurburgring was used in 1984 as the German GP if I remember correctly.

        1. It was in 1985. It was notable because it was the first Grand Prix that used an on-board camera. It was mounted on Francois Hesnault’s Renault.

          1. They had live on-board camera before 1985…

          2. Yes, but that was the first time one was used during an actual race.

    2. Ive been to Watkins Glenn recently. The track is a basket-case when compared to the new super-safe, super-glamour, destination/venues. Plus, its in the armpit of NY, impossible to get too, really nothing there but Syracuse…. Trust me, there is nothing in Syracuse that you would want

      1. Well that’s really a shame considering that the glen is one of the best tracks in this country and I would absolutely love to see an f1 race at the glen or at road america.

  15. my a**… not… happening…

  16. Please spare us from yet another street circuit; most of the ones that already exist are terrible and do not suit F1 cars.

    The last thing F1 needs is another Valencia, Singapore or Aabu Dhabi and there are loads of brilliant race tracks in the United States that would be great venues for a GP.

  17. “America doesn’t need us, but we need to conquer it.!

    Sorry for being cynical, but I read that as “America doesn’t need us, but we want its money.”

    1. your the lawyer, you should know all about that ;-)

      1. Play nice Bas, no need to get personal! ;)

  18. Like it although it will be nicer if right in the heart of the city:

  19. Trying not to get my hopes up TOO high, here, but…I’m ridiculously excited about this. This circuit would be within easy walking distance of my apartment!

    1. Nice. I wanna know who lives in that highrise right on JFK Blvd. Free balcony views of the whole circuit!!

      1. start buying up apartments in it already, a good investment!?

      2. Yeah, bound to be hot property even more than it already was before!

  20. The track looks great. Although the western fiddly straigh bit would probably need some artificial corners (i.e. chicanes) to limit speeds along that road to an acceptable level.

    Plus, the south-western most corner is absolutely not going to work. Judging from Google Earth, there would need to be a drop that would dwarf Laguna Seca’s Corkscrew. There’s even a major staircase there for pedestrians!

    (If the image doesn’t work, try

    No worries, though, because there’s an alternative route just beside it: see the white road going to the bridge on the south side of the track.

    1. I put the circuit into gmaps’ pedometer, which shows elevation. Nothing too crazy: URL for this route is:

  21. The first thing that came to mind given the location.

    1. Lol, I’d forgotten that line.

  22. Lucas - Mr. Veloce of Britalia - Yours With Wings
    3rd August 2011, 11:35

    Why waste their time? They already have a US GP prepared in Austin…

    1. It’s a big country.

      How big? New York is 2,400km from Austin.

      There are eight races on the 2011 F1 calendar within 2,400km of my doorstep: Silverstone, Spa, Nurburgring, Valencia, Catalunya, Monaco, Monza and Hungaroring. And Istanbul’s only another 99km away.

      1. Precisely Keith!

        If Formula 1 can become popular in the states like it was in the late ’70s/early ’80s, it will be great for the sport as a whole. What they also need is an American driver like Mario Andretti to come through the ranks, I’ve been massively impressed by J.R. Hildebrand in his first season in Indycar, made a few notable mistakes (crashing on the last corner of the last lap of the Indy 500) but has easily been the best rookie.

        Simplifying Keith’s point, it’s a rather long way for some American’s to travel to Texas, it’s right in the corner of the U.S., which will make it difficult for some to get to. So those on the East coast can have their own Grand Prix.

        I’m a fan of having 2 races in the States. We have 2 races in Spain, and we used to have 2 races in Germany and Italy, we even had 2 races in Great Britain! The U.S. was one of the countries in the inaugural season, albeit just holding the Indy 500, but it still has a massive history in our sport and deserves not just 1 race, but possibly 2.

        P.S. I like the track, reminds me a little of Long Beach with some twisty bits in the middle.

  23. I’d prefer the Glen back.
    Anyway the track looks quick, dangerous and remembers me Montuich Barcelona circuit. It would not be that bad, I would like to see it in lieu of one of the horrible middle east tilkodromes (like Abu Dhabi).

  24. New York sounds interesting… track looks a bit boring though to be honest. But a race would be interesting. What about Austin though? They can’t have 2 GP’s.

  25. I like that circuit. Assuming it’s anti-clockwise the fast uphill section from the hairpin (Anthony M Defino Way to JFK Boulevard) looks fantastic and reminds me of the hill from St. Devote to Casino Square.

    Looking at the southwest corner I would assume the track would follow pershing road, county road 682?

    1. Yes, you can see it in the original WSJ article. I posted a link above to a map I just made with elevations.

  26. Track should be in Manhattan, Times Square as the pit straight would be awesome! :D

    1. Except that it’s completely impractical and would require shutting down the single largest economy in the world for a week. They might as well do this, which is equally impractical.

      Also, all the roads around Times Square are build on a grid. The circuit would be made up almost completely of 90-degree bends.

      1. Screw practicalities, this is Formula 1! ;)

        (we all know it’s never gonna happen anwyays + I actually like the proposed layout)

  27. It’s an interesting setup – a quick look on Google Maps shows lots of elevation – but I see two problems with it:

    Firstly, there’s not really a lot of space for pit lane and grandstands.

    Secondly, and more importantly, it’s right on top of residential space. There isn’t even a buffer between circuit and houses like at Albert Park.

    Overall, it’s a good effort, and certainly better than the Liberty State Park proposal … but I can’t see it happening.

  28. As has already been said, lets go back to the Glen

    1. The circuit would need to be widened. Run-off would have to be added. The pits would have to be upgraded. Dozens of changes would be needed to make it raceable, which would only inspire people to complain about how the Glen was castrated.

      1. Yeah whenever the subject comes up we get the calls to go to Watkins Glen or Laguna Seca but really half of the Glen would be flat out in today’s F1 cars (try it on iRacing and see!) and those blue armco barriers would all have to go. Then we’d end up with a Fuji-situation; the old track would have been obliterated for one race a year. Keep ALMS and Indycar for the older tracks and build something suitable for F1. Just don’t build another Valencia.

  29. For those of you keeping count that is fourth track proposed around New York in as many years. I won’t hold my breath for it but I guess this is testing the waters to see if there is a public support for the event.

    1. But I believe it’s only the second proposal that has actually been sent (or, in the case of Liberty State Park, was planned to be sent) to Bernie.

      1. Yeah, it definitely sounds like it has more support than any of the others have so far, particularly with the two mayors supporting it. The mayor was who took the wind out of the sails of the Liberty Park proposal.

        1. I’m not too optimistic. Liberty Park plan was dropped after complains from the public and this time racetrack is supposed to be inside a residential area, not in the park.

          1. I think it goes a little deeper than that. Looking at the proposal, it’s clearly an early draft of some kind. Maybe just the executive summary of the full proposal. I suspect it was leaked under the Freedom of Information Act.

            There’s a group attached to Liberty State Park calling themselves the “Friends of Liberty State Park”. They’re self-appointed and have no authority the way state rangers do. Apparently they’re very, very vocal about most things to do with the park. My guess is that they found out about the proposal and were upset that they hadn’t been consulted, so they forced it to be leaked and then used it to pressure the mayor into abandoning the plan. I’m also willing to bet that the aspiring organisers were actually planning on writing up the full proposal, and then sumbitting it to the Friends of Liberty State Park to give them the clearest picture of their intentions. The Friends were just upset that they hadn’t been consulted from the ouset, even though they have no actual authority.

  30. Meh, much too plain for my liking. How about this:


    1. Because it’s too long and the streets are too narrow. Like this design, which I think offers a little bit more in the way of variety:

      1. It’s virtually the same length as the one you just posted!

        As for street widths, google maps doesn’t really show that so I couldn’t guess.

        1. It’s virtually the same length as the one you just posted!

          That’s what I said. Your circuit is too long. My circuit is too long, even though I think it offers more than the existing proposal in the article does.

          As for street widths, google maps doesn’t really show that so I couldn’t guess.

          That’s what the satellite view is for.

  31. A race in New York would certainly look fantastic and I imagine would have a very similar feel to Singapore.

    I do think Whitmarsh has a point about having 2 races in the US. The circuits will be vastly different, not only in layout but surface. Ambient temperatures and associated factors will also play a big part.

  32. Doesnt look very exciting and 1 usa gp is enough thanks

  33. Some changes I’d make:

    Get rid of some of the 90-degree bends along the waterfront, and add a replica of Tamburello in at the bottom of the circuit.

  34. I think if this happens it should run anti-clockwise just because it makes the hairpin much more of an ovrtaking opportunity. Looks like a nice layout.

  35. Get people to see one race, you don’t need two in the same place like USA. This will help drop may be a traditional race or even a brand new one like Turkey has 2012.

  36. that track looks exactly like the New York GP track for rfactor lol but i think that instead of doing the race IN NYC (where there aren’t many racing fans) go back to Watkins Glen, a gorgeous track where they used to host the US GP in an area that is full of racing fans + that track already hosts at least 3 venues (grand-am, NASCAR and Indy)

    1. US Williams Fan
      3rd August 2011, 19:55

      Watkins Glen would be a MUCH better venue – if they could get the $$$ together.

      They could have it back to back with Montreal the next week (or previous week).

      This would be an NY/NJ/PA/New England F1 fan’s dream!

  37. I can’t wait to not watch this race on TV!

    1. There’s always online…

  38. Sorry, I disagree. It is a WORLD championship. People got a little unh

  39. Sorry, I disagree. It is a WORLD championship. People got a little unhappy when there were two German GPs and there is a lot of discontent for there being two Spanish GPS on the calender too.

    I realise that Texas and NY are poles apart and could be mistaken for being in two seperate countries, but I feel that another American race will come at the expense of a currently struggling, but heritage rich European Gp such as the German, Belgium or Italian GP. If there are two GPs in America, is there then a case for having two Russian, Indian or Chinese GPs? The are huge countries which have booming car industries. Let the Austin GP fail first for being overspent with a low attendence, then head to somewhere with a bit more cash such as LA or NYC

    1. There isn’t going to be low attendance in Austin, so you may be waiting quite awhile on that.

      1. Lets wait and see. But I’m going to be right on it being over budget.

  40. Ha, Yellow cab for a safety car, Hot Dog vendors in the pitlane and a Mafia hitman locking down the cars until a “fee” is paid :D

  41. Philly > New York

    The slums of Philly are quite worse, but the downtown and historical sections of Philadelphia are absolutely spectacular.

    1. US Williams Fan
      6th August 2011, 8:43

      As a Philadelphian myself I DEEPLY OFF….. ah who am I kidding? :) we do have some really bad areas.

      but it would be nice to see a GP running near independence hall or the liberty bell.

      or the badlands of west philly….. teams would just have to plan their pitstops in between police chases!

  42. Is this the same old story from the beginning of the season, about it being a threat to the Australian GP? The one started by the Melbourne race promoter?

    1. No. Ron Walker – the guy who started the story – claimed that Bernie was in New York, looking to get a race organised. However, Bernie was not in New York at all; Walker was simply taking advantage of the fact that Bernie wasn’t in Melborune (he doesn’t like making the trip; it’s too far, and at his age, can you blame him?). Looking at this article, I’d say this is an independent proposal that will be submitted to Bernie. It’s not something he’s actually sought out.

  43. US Williams Fan
    3rd August 2011, 19:53

    I could take a short train ride to this one :)

    Much better than the Jersey City idea….. and much less likely for a tourist to be mugged or shot.

    Just stay away from that water F1 fans……. the Hudson is quite polluted.

    1. Hudson is not that bad, I kayak in it. If you want reall dirty water, try the East River.

      That said, they did just spill a few tons of biological waste into the Hudson. Kayaking was restricted last week, and several NJ beaches closed due to high bacterial levels, but Ill go back again in a few weeks.

    2. full of airplanes apparrantly ;)

  44. What a load of donkey dung this “story” is. One thing we can say about Bernie, he is persistent in his beliefs that a NYC race is a good thing; which in concept it is.

    Why it will NEVER happen:
    1. The political bozos in the story think they can fund this without using taxpayer dollars? Tell them to call race organizers in Montreal, Melbourne, and even Austin Texas, to find out what the tabs could potentially become.
    2. Sure, NJ is a stones throw across the Hudson River from Manhattan, but how many access points are there between the two? The beautiful people of F1 will no doubt camp out in Manhattan, but how will they get to the race?
    3. The local populace in NJ will be just as outraged over the inconvenience of closed streets as any typical New Yorker.
    4. Does anyone think Bernie will give the new race a break on the franchise fees, in order to help it become an economic success? If you think yes, there’s a famous bridge nearby I can sell you.

    Regardless of my observations it still is a better choice then Staten Island, but has only the proverbial snowball’s chance in hell of becoming reality.

    But I guess it makes for lively discussion for the next three weeks with little else to chew on.

    1. George, you obviously have never been here.

      1. The political bozos in the story think they can fund this without using taxpayer dollars…
      You forget, people here have MONEY. This would be a boon for advertisers. Think of it. The GP NY brought to you by Goldman Sachs/JP Morgan/NASDAQ. How much do you think it costs to put up a billboard in NYC? Do you think there is ever an empty one. The Politicos are not idiots, they know the municipal $ is impossible as there is none. IMHO, this is the best reason it might fail.

      2. Sure, NJ is a stones throw across the Hudson River from Manhattan, but how many access points are there between the two? The beautiful people of F1 will no doubt camp out in Manhattan, but how will they get to the race?

      This is a ridiculous argument when you consider Silverstone, Spa, and several other “Historical” venues. They will get around the same way all bigwigs get around NYC – Helicopter. The city is dotted with helipads.
      As for the rest of us, there are 2 car tunnels, 3 bridges, 2 subways trains tunnels, 1 regional railway, and myriad public and private bus lines.

      3. The local populace in NJ will be just as outraged over the inconvenience of closed streets as any typical New Yorker.

      Yes, indeed it will be an inconvienece, but around here we are used to it. Imagine when your local train goes to 1/2 service for 24 months. NYers are harder than the others because we have to be. Lets not forget the presege and $$ that will flow into those depressed cities. The acutal race site is rather poor, but just 2 miles north is Alpine NJ THE RICHEST zip code on Earth, (median home price $4 million)

      4. Does anyone think Bernie will give the new race a break on the franchise fees, in order to help it become an economic success? If you think yes, there’s a famous bridge nearby I can sell you.

      I think Berni will give them a break to get it going because he has said time and again he wants F1 in NYC. Because of the population density I will bet $100 the race will be sold out even if ticket prices are 2x more than any other race on the calender

    2. 1. The political bozos in the story think they can fund this without using taxpayer dollars? Tell them to call race organizers in Montreal, Melbourne, and even Austin Texas, to find out what the tabs could potentially become.

      Silverstone gets no government funding. They do just fine. And I believe the way the Austin arrangement is set up actually sees the promoter getting funding that is not tax-payer funded; at the very least, they repay the money from the major sports fund.

      2. Sure, NJ is a stones throw across the Hudson River from Manhattan, but how many access points are there between the two? The beautiful people of F1 will no doubt camp out in Manhattan, but how will they get to the race?

      Take a close look at the map. Zoom in if you need to – no less than three separate ferries connect the circuit to Manhattan.

      3. The local populace in NJ will be just as outraged over the inconvenience of closed streets as any typical New Yorker.

      Or maybe they’ll like the idea that they’ve got something New York doesn’t have, that New York physically cannot have, even if it uses the New York name.

      4. Does anyone think Bernie will give the new race a break on the franchise fees, in order to help it become an economic success? If you think yes, there’s a famous bridge nearby I can sell you.

      Nowhere have these organisers said that the race depends upon Bernie cutting them a break. And it’s entirely possible that they could get the city of New York to fund part of the race (as the beating heart of the world’s economy, they can afford it) since it will be run under the New York name.

      1. javlinsharp & PM:

        Intelligent, cogent responses as I was hoping for!

        For the record, I would love seeing the race on the Jersey side of the river, but I’m also a realist which generated my comments.

        I live in Connecticut, a 1-4 hour commute from Manhattan depending on traffic, whether by rail or car. I have had my share of experiences “crossing the Rubicon” into Jersey City, Newark and places further West like Rutgers. Rarely a traffic free experience.

        Where will the 100,000 F1 fans stay, are there that many hotel rooms available within easy distance of the track? Sure the glitterati (all 200 hundred of them) will chopper in, but what about the rest??

        All of these new track plans BEGIN with the concept of “No Taxpayer money” and they ALL wind up that way. Austin is receiving $25 million dollars of development money from the State of Texas; it’s a 5 year deal, I think it’s $25M per year, or it could be spread over the five years. But there was taxpayer opposition to the funding. Thank goodness Texans got it approved.

        What about the huge taxpayer dollars that are used in Melbourne and Montreal? This may start out as a reduced franchise fee, but Bernie will up the scale to the point where it is no longer tenable or profit generating.

        Regardless of the access the locals will raise holy hell over the inconvenience of “more traffic”. It’s what all NIMBY’s do, at least in the U.S.

        I do agree with comments reqarding “another follow the leader street course”, especially because they tend to be very narrow; If they build it hopefully they will overcome those issues.

        Lastly the economy in NYC and NJ is still in a shambles, and sooner or later the “Go-No Go” decision on this will revolve around tax paying subsidies in some form or other. When city’s and states are cutting services, firing cops, firemen, and teachers, as well as raising taxes, this entire notion will go down the porcelain convenience.

        For the record I am neither a teacher, fireman or cop.

        1. George K,
          I agree in principal with many of your statements. Indeed, the trip from NY to NJ can be a tumultious one. I have daily experience for the past 6 years.

          Indeed, the fiscal position of NJ, NY, and these specific municipalites are in shambles, and that NO funds will be available, even for investment as is being done in Austin. I feel this is the most likely reason why the scheme will fail.

          As far as accomidations. Agreed, unlike the last US GP which I attended, there are no sprawling lots for RVs, but the area has one of the largest stocks of hotel rooms in the world, somewhere around 30k. If Montreal can do it, NYC can also. Dont forget, that track is surrounded by water, and inside city limits.

          As far as transit is concerned, its pretty well figured out. Did you know that population of Manhatten DOUBLES every weekday between 9am and 5pm? Every day, the quantity of people who come to work in the city, is the same as the quantity that actually lives there. A huge majority of them come from the west – NJ. The infrastructure crossing the Hudson is pretty good. I agree, there will be auto traffic snarls, but there are ALWAYS auto traffic snarls, every rush hour, every football game, every Sunday evening rush home, every holiday. People here are used to it. Weehaken and West NY are basically “fly over” towns that, and yes, It will be tough for the residents to go shopping for those 4 days, but if it buys better school books, or saves the jobs of some firemen/policemen. I think they would do it.

          Montreal is a classic race, and Berni takes it for granted. As a classic race it presents zero growth opportunity, it is a cash cow, and Berni want more cash. Thats why I think the race was cancelled previously. NY is different. Berni will be growing, gaining more fans, selling more merc, getting more eyeballs to sell to the advertisers. If its a crappy race, he doesnt care, as long as it grabs attention. Let me tell you, 16,000 RPMs reverberating around the concrete jungle WILL grab attention.

          1. javlinsharp, my last observations:

            Those folks who double the Manhattan population daily do so for economic reasons; They have to and I’d wager the vast majority hate it.

            F1 fans will vote their displeasure by not attending, if the logistics of to and fro from the track are difficult or bothersome.

            I think the only group that actively presses for U.S. races are the car manufacturers, Ferrari, Mercedes, now McLaren, and why Honda and Toyota thought F1 was a great marketing tool. Attendance at Austin and their relative F1 success will go far towards making a NY/NJ site a viable possibility. We Americans as a group are stupendously ignorant of and generally uninterested in F1; whether the biggest urban market in the country will generate massive public interest is a huge gamble.

            Your best point was the similar logistics presented by Montreal, I suppose if it works there it could for Jersey as well.

            Thanks for the discourse, here’s hoping it can actually happen without a huge public dollar fandango.

  45. We all know how great temporary street circuits do… FOLLOW the leader… and than 10 laps later I am asleep.

    1. Go into Google Maps. Search for “Weehauken” or “West New York” and locate the proposed site of the race. Switch to satellite view and use the zoom function to get in closer. You’ll see some of the roads are very, very wide.

  46. please no historic tracks should go
    keep monaco,monza,suzaka,spa and all the rest of em
    althogh if bernie was to drop valencia or barcelona then im all for it

  47. DO IT DO IT DO IT… I know that route and always said NY would be a great GREAT setting for an F1 race. The pits and paddocks would be the only issue but I am sure they can resolve that.

    EXCITING….. No **** off Valencia..

  48. New york is way to close to Montreal…and we don’t want to lose that now do we….

  49. whoops thats DJ xo2 as in x o squared…

  50. You guys mistake New Jersey for New York and you’ll be getting ****-bombed by New Yorkers.

  51. New Jersey I think it is, not New York. I was surprised at the title of this article thinking here’s yet another American GP news which makes it a third one. But no, this is the New Jersey GP plan.

  52. SPA Will Not Be Going Anywere It Has Been Going For Years And The Rouge Is A Challenging Corner It Is Wicked

  53. What F1 REALLY needs to do is to somehow prohibit other racing series from using “Grand Prix” in the names of their races. The average guy doesn’t see the distinction between the “United States Grand Prix”, “Austin Grand Prix”, “New Jersey Grand Prix”, “America’s Grand Prix” and the “Grand Prix of Long Beach” and “Grand Prix of Miami”. For that matter, US racing leagues need some real marketing effort too, is it IRL, CART, Champ Car, or what, seriously I don’t know for sure cause all I care about is F1. But if you’re going to move a market you have to have a name and a brand that you can focus people’s attention on. NASCAR, as much as I can’t stand it, is BRILLIANTLY marketed to the masses.

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