Horner says Vettel isn’t joining Ferrari

F1 Fanatic round-up

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In the round-up: Christian Horner says Sebastian Vettel is not in negotiations about joining Ferrari.


Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Vettel will be staying put, says Red Bull boss (Reuters)

Christian Horner: “I have spoken with Sebastian about it and he’s made it quite clear that he hasn’t had any dialogue and hasn’t signed anything with Ferrari. The rumour mill always will continue.”

Haug: Young driver test row ‘ridiculous’ (Autosport)

“Plans were thrown into disarray when Silverstone informed teams that it could not make the circuit available as planned because of its British GP contract with Formula One Management.”

Smedley: “Our car is good in high speed corners” (Ferrari)

“In Valencia we didn’t have the quickest car, but compared to the start of the year, we had a much improved car, which is down to a great job from the whole team. However, our car has always been particularly suited to high speed corners and Silverstone is dominated by high speed turns for almost two thirds of the track.”

Charles Pic via Twitter

“I’m very affected by what happened to Maria [de Villota] today and I sincerely hope she will heal quickly. All my thoughts are for her and her family.”

F1 Fanatic on Twitter

Yesterday’s Tweets include dozens from the FOTA Fans Forum at the Williams Conference Centre.

Goodwood Festival of Speed 2012 – A Festival of Stopped (I Watch Too Much Racing)

“The traffic and the volume of people spoiled the day for me. I ended up missing the entire first run of cars (including F1) which is stupid if you’re only going for one day. Then when we went trackside the only available place was a quiet little clearing where the bales obscured most of the cars.”

Comment of the day

The most widely expressed sentiment on the site yesterday was concern for the condition of Maria de Villota. Celeste was just one of many to wish her a rapid recovery on hearing she’d regained consciousness after her testing crash:

That’s good news.

Best wishes and speed recovery…

From the forum

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to McLarenFanJamm!

If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is by emailling me, using Twitter or adding to the list here.

On this day in F1

Mercedes returned to Grand Prix racing today in 1954 in the French Grand Prix at Reims.

Juan Manuel Fangio gave the W196 a debut victory, crossing the finishing line side-by-side with team mate Karl Kling having lapped the opposition.

Image © Red Bull/Getty images

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89 comments on “Horner says Vettel isn’t joining Ferrari”

  1. Is me or you missed Sebastian Vettel`s birthday…

    1. Not that is really important considering all that have happened today… just pointing it out… ( I will love an edit button)

    2. @celeste

      He did, apparently. It was yesterday, though.

      1. @fer-no65 Sorry, in my country is still July 3th

        1. @celeste Same here… :P

          1. @celeste @fer-no65 US or Canada

          2. Neither…Honduras…

          3. @icemangrins neither either for me, Argentina.

          4. You guys are living in the past :)

          5. @dane-1 but we are going back to the future :D

        2. Ha, but by now you guys are back on “today”. Congratulations on your COTD @celeste

          1. @bascb Thank you :D

    3. And don’t forget the USA.

      1. We wouldn’t want to do that, now, would we?

        1. That was actually meant as a birthday reminder before the conversation turned geographic.

  2. Is Mclaren bringing updates for this race?

      1. Thanks!
        Great, hope it will be effective.

    1. Ed, you need to read every day, hope you have internet access to do so, there has been a lot of talk about McL.s big Silverstone updates.

      1. I do so, but I think not the same places you do. I live in Brazil so the sites are brief when it comes to Mclaren. And the international sites that I look don’t spent much time on Mclaren’s big updates, they mention something, but not deeply. Maybe I looked on the wrong places or didn’t pay enough attention. The only thing that i read was some Hamilton quotes after Valencia.

        1. * didn’t spend
          * mentioned

        2. @edmarques that’s what it was based off really. Hamilton’s and Whitmarsh’s comments

    2. @edmarques Hamilton’s quote on McLaren’s planned upgrade was mentioned here:


      1. “The guys are working as hard as they can and pushing as hard as we can to improve,” he said. “We’ve not had the same size of upgrades as others potentially have. We’ve not really had an upgrade since Barcelona but we hopefully will have something very soon.”

        Lewis Hamilton’s comments above neither confirms or denies an upgrade for Silverstone.

        1. On another site i found this quote:

          “We’ve got some upgrades coming,” Hamilton said. “We’re going to need them because other teams have obviously been making some serious steps forward.”

        2. @atseridluap The preceding paragraph refers to Hamilton saying the upgrade was planned for Silverstone.

  3. Michael’s future at Mercedes will be decided in 6 weeks… right before the Belgium GP. I guess they have timed this decision strategically; let Michael drive Silverstone, Germany & Hungary .. the tracks he is really familiar at and see how confident he is with himself & the car and determine his future. Not sure, what goes on in Nico’s mind.

    So, if Sebastian isn’t going to Ferrari that means Mark Webber will take Felipe’s spot. That would mean Lewis Hamilton will take Mark’s spot at Red Bull.

    Would Kimi take Lewis’s spot at McLaren? Never mind… it’s the beer talking (yeah, on a Tuesday)

    1. @icemangrins Didn`t Mark Webber say in an interview that he wanted to stay at RBR

      However, it has been recently reported that the defending champions may look forward to extend their agreement with the Australian driver. Meanwhile, Webber has said that his first priority will be to continue his career with Red Bull.

      “First I will talk with my team, because I would be happy to continue here,” Webber, this year’s Monaco winner and currently second behind Alonso in the drivers’ championship, said.

      Maybe Heiki will go to Ferrari, I donpt Perez in a red car any time soon…

      1. davidnotcoulthard
        4th July 2012, 1:44

        “I doubt Perez in a red car any time soon…”

        In order for that to happen Red
        Hat or Oracle will need to sponsor Sauber.

      2. Maybe Heiki would rather show his talent in an improving Caterham, where he is impressing me, than become Ferraris’ whipping boy.

      3. @celeste there is a little chance that Lewis’s management may be already talking to RBR after all the speculation that he was spotted having the discussion with Christian in their motorhome. Practically, Lewis is a great team player and relatively an aggressive championship material; RBR would love to have him partner with Sebastian. Unfortunately for Mark, the double standard treatment he had in 2010 would have left a bad taste in his mouth.. plus his morale would have crushed last year with utter dominance from Sebastian in 2011. I guess, only Lewis can counter him !!

        1. I guess, only Lewis can counter him

          Do you really think Red Bull would treat him differently to Mark Webber because he’s Lewis Hamilton?

          Red Bull is clearly structed with a lead driver and a support driver. If Hamilton joins the team, he will be the support driver. This naturally happens when a driver first joins a team; he needs to get to know everyone and everything, while the other driver is already comfortable within the team. The diference with Red Bull is that the support driver is expected to stay as a support driver, even after he finishes his first season. And Hamilton would know that.

          1. @prisoner-monkeys

            Red Bull is clearly structured with a lead driver and a support driver

            Their refusal to implement team orders surely disproves that theory. They let their drivers race, and Sebastian usually races better than Webber so I understand how it could appear that way. Yes in the past Vettel has been given upgrades and Mark hasn’t but that is often due to the fact that Vettel is much more likely to be able to maximise the advantage gained as such. Webber is no slouch, just Vettel is quicker.

          2. @vettel1

            They let their drivers race

            You mean they say they let their drivers race.

            Look at Abu Dhabi 2010, when the team called Webber in early for his stop and Alonso followed. It was an unusually-early call, and they both got stuck behind Vitaly Petrov. There is a theory that they called Webber in to force Ferrari to react, because Ferrari considered Webber to be Alonso’s biggest title challenge. Sure, they didn’t issue team orders there – but they didn’t have to.

            Red Bull say they do a lot of things … but how often are their actions and their words the same thing?

          3. @prisoner-monkey I’m not really sure if you’re suggesting that Hamilton would join RBR as a ‘support’ driver or not…but if you are that is quite frankly ridiculous.
            It is quite clearly reported from those inside and outside of the sport that Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel are the three top drivers of their generation. To even suggest that Hamilton would then move to a team/situation where he would be made to play second fiddle to one of his main competitors is crazy.
            It was as recent as Valencia we were provided an example of the fact that Hamilton will not concede or give up an inch of track or position to anyone, with many examples of this unfortunately being to his detriment.
            I’m not a betting man, but I would actually put money on Hamilton not entering into the scenario you have described above.

          4. @prisoner-monkeys Hamilton will never sign for any team “clearly structed with a lead driver and a support driver. However, I think Lewis will be driving a McLaren next year.

        2. @icemangrins management at Red Bull already say that they don`t want Hamilton:

          Helmut Marko:

          But the energy drink team’s Marko said: “That Hamilton is considering his alternatives is fairly clear.

          “But it has to fit with the team structure,” he told Germany’s Sport Bild. “It doesn’t matter if you’re the fastest driver or not if it doesn’t fit with the team.”

          Christian Horner:

          Horner says: “I think that it’s difficult to envisage Lewis in our team. I think he’s comfortable in the environment he is in and we’re certainly comfortable with the two drivers we have.

          “We also took a decision to invest in youth and we have two really exciting youngsters entering GP racing in Jean-Eric and Daniel – both really talented drivers, and both deserve that opportunity. It will be fascinating to see how they evolve over the year. So we’re more likely to look inwardly than outwardly.”

          So that pretty much take RBR of the equation… reading about the Fanforum at Fota it seem that Mercedes looks like it migh be open…

          1. Just curious what the ‘team structure’ really means… maybe is that acknowledging the reality of No 1 and No 2 while ostensibly the two drivers are treated equal?
            Anyhow, HAM and ALO has been in a same team with leading machines in 2007. So it would be nice to see how thing unravel when HAM and VET shares the same leading car next year though.

          2. it would be nice to see how thing unravel when HAM and VET shares the same leading car next year though

            “Unravel” is probably the right word for it. Red Bull would see Hamilton as a threat – if he were to out-perform Vettel (especially in a car that was the class act of the field), he would make a mockery of the entire Red Bull Young Driver Programme. Hamilton would see the team as stymying his performance for the sake of their corporate image and the favoured son, Vettel. The result would be a falling-out that would make Chernobyl look like a picnic.

            Honestly, I don’t think there’s too much to these Hamilton-to-Red Bull rumours. They appear to have been started by Hamilton fans who wouldn’t (or couldn’t) acknowledge that Hamilton was the architect of his own problems last year, and they have been propagated by people who think that if Hamilton can be competitive in Red Bull, it would prove that Vettel’s dominance in 2011 was a result of the car, rather than Vettel’s skill.

    2. @icemangrins

      So, if Sebastian isn’t going to Ferrari that means Mark Webber will take Felipe’s spot. That would mean Lewis Hamilton will take Mark’s spot at Red Bull.

      No, and no. Nothing is certain until a contract is signed. Sure, Ferrari could drop Massa at the end of the season – but that doesn’t mean Webber will absolutely go there. Ferrari could just as easily take Sergio Perez (even if Luca di Montezemolo called him “too inexperienced”; a few good results will change that), and then where does that leave your situation? Even if Ferrari drop Massa for Webber, McLaren could easily retain Hamilton next year, so the idea that Hamilton will go to Red Bull is equally-speculative, and equally-specious.

      1. @prisoner-monkey I agree in your point about Mark. I don`t think he will to Ferrari for one year, it tast at least that to get used to a new politics and work scheduale at an another team and if they are only giving him a year whats the point?

        Beside didn`t someone say that Ferrari only liked drivers that know how to speak Italian… does Mark know?

  4. Anthony Hamilton is no longer managing Paul di Resta.

    1. Curious. Hamilton might not be a hard figure to have as team manager, but he has brought his drivers far.

    2. I was thinking that Hamilton Senior might be doing so because Hamilton Jr. is already in talks with Mercedes so he can go there… It seem to me that more than negociation the talks with Mclaren are going to be a fight, and the man will always wants whats best for his son…

  5. I guess Norbert is one Team Boss that doesn’t love Bernie.

    1. And I guess you’re overlooking the way the contract between Silverstone and FOM was signed before anyone considered holding the Young Driver Tests at the circuit.

    2. Norbert’s not a team boss though. His position in Merc GP is more like Helmut Marko at RBR. The guy who liaises between the track team and the corporates.

      1. Oh well, he’s much close to Dietrich Mateschitz than Helmut Marko. Marko is just a messenger who think he’s the team boss while Haug is actually supervisor of Brawn. Of course Mercedes has Zetsche as president but Marko is just a consultunt while Haug is a real manager.

        1. Marko is just a messenger who think he’s the team boss

          Marko might not be popular, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t deserve credit where credit is due. I’ve never once seen Marko try to run Red Bull. He is in charge of their driver development programme, so he is the one responsible for finding new talent and managing the existing drivers. He’d probably be better-suited down the other end of pit lane in the Toro Rosso garage (if they’re not careful, Cateham could beat them overall this season), but I don’t think Helmut Marko is under any illusion as to what his role within the wider Red Bull team is.

          1. Any illusion? If it’s the case, he shouldn’t had commented harsh things about Webber when both driver crashed, or argued with Alguersuari. Is this the thing one who’s charge on driver development program would do? Well, Alguersuari did nothing good and Webber might not be one of his sons but it doesn’t mean he would had done.

  6. Enjoyed these pictures of Silverstone.

    1. Nice find!
      But have a careful look at picture number 5. That looks suspiciously as though the track is going downhill into a medium tight keft-hander (note the track side ad boards in the background, at angles to the ground so that they are level) . . .in which case, it’s not Silverstone is it?

      1. Aha! The caption to Pic 5 says Silver City Trophy which was actually held at Brands Hatch, so that must be what is now Graham Hill Bend.
        (I know, too much time on my hands.)

    2. “Spectators erected their own viewing stand”

      How lovely.

  7. It’s nice to think that Vettel is staying with Red Bull, but how can anyone be sure? It’s (most likely) ultimately going to come down to the economy and the RRA. Sure, the big teams would love to sign the RRA and get rid of any competition, but Red Bull isn’t really a big team with all the history of Ferrari, McLaren, or the backing that Mercedes gets.

    Bernie seems to be thinking short-term, which makes sense given his age, but wow, he’s risking killing a big part of F1 in the process… You cannot enforce such huge regulatory changes and then limit the spending. You either reduce costs to reduce spending, or you leave it alone. Otherwise we’re going to have several big teams running away from the rest when these new expensive engines come in.

    So far, it looks like RBR aren’t rushing to sign the RRA, and Seb would be silly to sign anything until everyone knows what’s going to happen. No-one knows for sure if RBR are staying in F1 and I’d say it’s affecting Sebastian’s decision. Not ideal when you’re trying to fight for a championship.

    1. A stricter budget cap (subcontracting shenanigans aside) would firmly favor RBR. McLaren’s design process is very iterative – almost brute force – based on windtunnel and CFD. Ferrari is similar, but based on testing. Red Bull however, have Newey and Prodromou.

      In times of a budget cap, the emphasis switches from “getting the most speed out of the car” to “getting the most speed out of the car for a given budget” – i.e. value. And as such, any dead-end designs would not add pace, while would add to the budget used. You need a creative aero guy or guys who can get things right most of the time – and really out of the current field, you have no better guys than Newey and Prodromou.

      1. Do you think the RRA is a good thing for F1, though?

      2. A stricter budget cap (subcontracting shenanigans aside) would firmly favor RBR

        I find this strange given that Red Bull was the team that was most-frequently accused of violating the RRA, and the first to leave FOTA because of the way it was being policed. They claim they are observing it, but when they arrived in Valencia, 70% of their car was new. How much did that cost them?

        Red Bull might like to make themselves out to be a smaller team trying to stick it to the bigger teams, but they’re one of the biggest spenders in the sport. If anybody is going under the RRA, it’s them.

        1. @prisoner-monkeys maybe is aout RBR, or maybe is about all the big teams… didn`t Ferrari change almost is entire car for the test of Valencia?

          RBR clains that is not logic the messure used to guard the spend… arguing by example that constructors like Ferrari, Mercedes and Mclaren can used one of their other programs to develop parts and how the FIA or the FOTA will be able to police that… So RBR was arguing that the cost cut should be in visible terms like team membes…engines…things that are more easy to get account for…

      3. You need to look at @damonsmedleys post above and understand that companies like Mercedes and Ferrari have resources that can either hide or greatly diminish the cost of designing and building a F1 car, smaller teams (even RBR) either have to setup these departments or sub-contract this work out.
        A strict RRA will favour those teams that already have massive resources, it will not make the smaller cash strapped teams competitive.
        On a further note why does everybody think that the engines are such a large part of the budget, engines are relatively inexpensive unless you are continuously trying to develop higher rpm and power out-puts. The next generation engine rules are so restrictive and underpowered compared with their counterparts of 30 years ago that most of the cost will revolve around fuel delivery and hybrid systems.

    2. Only Red Bull did already sign the RRA @damonsmedley, only they then started claiming that Horner was not allowed to do so for the team on one hand, and on the other they keep saying how they are operating within its limits.

      1. And that doesn’t sound a little bit fishy?

        1. it does

          1. Well, like I said – they accused of violating it more than anyone else, and they were the most vehemently-opposed to any form of external policing. And because they own Toro Rosso, they effectively have two votes, so they could successfully block just about any motion to make the RRA anything more than a gentlemen’s agreement.

    3. Horner should keep his mouth shut. Who told him employees share all information with employers? It’s an asymmetric information world, Horner cannot assure anything about Vettel’s future, he would be better off saying “his contract is still running” because only Seb knows what he will do and who he will tell before time’s due.

      My boss doesn’t know my career plans in full just because I don’t see any advantage in sharing this precious info.

      I like to see Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso driving different cars, so stay where you are guys.

      1. Who told him employees share all information with employers?

        Who says Vettel has not made it absolutely plain to the team that he intends to stay with them and is harbouring no thoughts of a move to Ferrari?

        One the one hand, you’ve got an Italian journalist spreading a rumour that Vettel is going to Ferrari at some indeterminate point in the near future. On the other, you’ve got Vettel’s team principal – one of the people in the paddock who know him best – on the record claiming that the rumours are false.

        So who are you inclined to believe more?

        1. @prisoner-monkeys my point is, Horner will never know how honest Seb is with him. When you’re employed by A and you evaluating working with B, you should not be 100% honest with A until you got a guarantee of signing a contract with B, because if your plans of joining B dies because your expectations exceed their offer your best job still is A and you don’t want to be there under black shadows. Got me?

  8. Horner, are you sure?

  9. Vettel is young and has plenty of time to explore the grid a little more. He will want to prove himself elsewhere in the future but he would do well to stick with RBR for the moment considering how generally competitive they are. Him and Alonso at Ferrari would be pretty special though!

    Why would Formula One Management restrict the calendar for Silverstone after the race and why has this only become an issue now?

    1. @andrewtanner

      Why would Formula One Management restrict the calendar for Silverstone after the race

      After all the trouble they went through back in 2009, they managed to come out with a seventeen-year deal. They obviously had to give something up in return.

      why has this only become an issue now?

      Because nobody talked about having the Young Driver Tests at Sliverstone until this year.

      1. @prisoner-monkeys But give up what exactly? What is FOM’s thinking or reasoning behind this?

        I know that the test was originally scheduled for Abu Dhabi but Silverstone made more sense, however, surely the teams must have known that FOM would have their objections?

  10. Let’s be honest, Horner and Marko will never do anything that would threaten the position of their golden child..

    1. Can you really blame them?

      He is, after all, a double World Champion.

      1. Otherwsie Hamilton would be WDC instead. That might be a problem for Marko, but for RBR not.

    2. I think you are right there Lothario. Which I think is awesome too because it means they’ll just keep winning. Hopefully this weekend we’ll see another Vettel pole too! Vettel’s poles are masterful.

  11. I don’t see why any driver in with a shout of the WDC this year would give the impression they are considering moving teams at the end of the season.
    Wouldn’t that shift any real or perceived emphasis in the team to the other driver and jeopardise their chances of success? Or just **** off his team?

    1. Kate, it is all a game, Ron says Lewis will have to accept lower pay, Lewis has a cup of coffee with Christian and pals around with Fernando. The team want the best driver at the lowest cost and the drivers want the best pay-deal with the winningest team. No-one gets everything they want.

  12. Apologies, I did self censor the above post but apparently not well enough.

  13. Wasn’t Williams REALLY sure that Nigel Mansell wasn’t going elsewhere following 1992?

    1. @optimaximal – Correlation does not imply causation. The actions of one driver do not set a precedent for the behavior of another driver twenty years later.

      1. I was more implying that the team will not actually know what Vettel is going to do until he either commits to Red Bull on the eve of 2014 or goes elsewhere.

        We’ve clearly seen that contracts mean eff all in the last few years given the amount of money in the sport. One party will just buy the other off if it suits them.

      2. @prisoner-monkeys, it may not be causal but it is illustrative.

  14. Mark my words: Schumacher replaces Massa at Ferrari in 2013.

    1. Ralf???

  15. The stewards, ex-drivers and the FIA having a go at improving stewarding and penalties handed out or not? Would be good if they did – see this post in the forum

  16. Marca.com has made a graphic to explain Maria de Villota`s accident…

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