Red Bull claim damage to Verstappen’s car from Hamilton crash cost £1.3 million

2021 British Grand Prix

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The damage incurred to Max Verstappen’s Red Bull in his first-lap crash after tangling with Lewis Hamilton last weekend cost £1.3 million ($1.8m), the team has revealed.

Team principal Christian Horner continued his criticism of Hamilton and Mercedes in a column published on the team’s website on Friday.

“That crash has cost us approximately $1.8 million and an accident like that has massive ramifications in a budget cap era,” said Horner.

Verstappen was seen climbing from his car after the crash before being taken to the medical centre and later to Coventry Hospital for computed tomography and magnetic resonance imaging scans to check for internal injuries. Horner criticised Mercedes for not telling Hamilton to restrain from celebrating his subsequent win under the circumstances.

“I am also still disappointed about the level of celebrations enjoyed in the wake of the accident,” he said. “The Mercedes team were aware of the gravity of the crash with Max widely reported as having been hospitalised and requiring further checks.

“It is unimaginable not to inform your driver of the situation, moreover to protect your driver in case they do not show the necessary restraint in celebrating, particularly when it was as a result of an incident he was penalised for.”

Horner pointed out Verstappen was initially “unable to respond on the team radio” after the 51G impact. “In that moment you forget everything else apart from the safety of the driver, a person who is like family to all of us and it reminds you of the risk and reward in our sport.

“When he was finally able to speak, the relief was enormous and then to see him helped out of the car by the medical team, albeit somewhat dazed and in need of support, was an incredible feeling.”

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Horner addressed recent comments by Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff, who felt Red Bull’s criticism of Hamilton had been personal in nature.

“At the point in time when you have a driver in hospital and the extent of any injuries have not yet been made clear, your car has been written off and the stewards have penalised the driver seen to be responsible, it is natural that emotion comes into play, for all involved, whether you feel wronged or victorious,” said Horner.

The steward ruled Hamilton was “predominantly” to blame for the collision. Horner continues to hold him entirely responsible. He insisted that at the point of contact between the pair, Hamilton’s car was on a trajectory which would not have taken him around the corner had he not hit his championship rival.

“When you look at the incident closely, Max took a wider line into Copse compared to Leclerc when Hamilton overtook him in the race,” said Horner. “Hamilton braked late and overshot the corner.

“He was travelling at such a speed that he was never going to make the apex of the corner and his trajectory through Copse meant he was never going to miss Max, even with braking he ran very wide after the accident.”

“The reality is that Hamilton has met his match in a car that is now competitive, and I agree that both drivers need to show each other respect, but Hamilton was the aggressor on Sunday,” Horner concluded.

Horner indicated Red Bull is still considering whether to request the stewards review of the incident.

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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228 comments on “Red Bull claim damage to Verstappen’s car from Hamilton crash cost £1.3 million”

  1. They should give it a try with a review, don’t think they have much to lose, this is just not a fair outcome.

    1. Plus let’s not forget the incoming engine penalty later this season. I think that’s a much harsher penalty than the 10-sec time penalty. They should have given him a drivetrough at the start of the race.

      1. @montalvo This is what feels so wrong. It was probably 70-80% Lewis’ fault. It’s tough to blame him though, he made an error and got penalized for it (I agree that drive through would have been the appropriate penalty, especially when you consider the speeds at Copse – not all corners are the same and the penalties should reflect that) But somehow, the driver at fault gets 10 seconds while the other one gets a DNF, a likely engine change penalty in the future, and his team suffers a loss of 1.3 mil GBP in a cost cap era.

        1. Verstappen has often crashed previously into competitors, losing them points they could not afford to lose, earning them engine penalties, and costing them as much for a new chassis etc when they have budgets far less than the cost cap. Hamilton made a tiny error of the sort which verstappen has made often, much of the time without penalty. He was penalised for it more harshly than most who have made similar errors. They need to stop whining and get on with a season verstappen is probably going to win by a significant margin anyway.

          1. Precisely. Hamilton had to back out of T1 at Catalunya to avoid Max overshooting and Horner admitted as much at the time!

          2. Often with the result of a engine/chassis loss of a competitor? When? Grosjean’s car in 2015 was just fine, even Ricciardo’s car wasn’t ok besides the suspension in Baku 2018. I can’t recall one incident where Verstappen had some blame in a crash that cause the loss of engine and/or chassis. And points wise I can only recall Vettel China 2018.

            I mean, we can make a list of every driver if we’re gonna nitpick like that. A result like we’ve seen last weekend, where one car gets totalled by a competitor who’s is at fault, and eventually manages to get the maximum result, that’s pretty rare. Most of the time both cars are out or the car isn’t totalled.

          3. Name one crash where Max hit anyone that needed a new engine or gearbox and incurred a grid penalty. It’s a lie..

          4. @jb784 max overshooting competitors has to back out, max undershooting competitors have to back out… are people other than max required to take a corner? lead a race?
            @others max had done many accidents cost others points and financial damages they didnt need or couldnt affort… is it headlines if it happens to max? is it unfair when it happens to max/redbul only? redbul are crying wolf, they are the biggest spenders in f1, cost cap or not, they still outspend many others !

          5. nr of penalty points Max over the last 2 years: 0
            nr of penalty points Lewis over the last 2 years: 12
            @dontbelievethepropaganda

      2. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
        23rd July 2021, 20:11

        @montalvo

        They should have given him a drivetrough at the start of the race.

        Even if F1 had excellent stewardship (which it doesn’t), I cannot see the stewards giving Max a drivethrough at the start of the next race when he took himself out in the process of colliding with Lewis. If Max had taken Lewis out, then maybe so but it’s still very unlikely to give him such a harsh penalty as right as it might be. Max ended up paying for his mistake on track. Maybe give him a few points on his license and call it a day!

        1. So you even missed this one.
          All analytical pieces conclude Lewis lost control.
          But it will come to you.

          1. Virtually all “practical eyes” see it as a racing incident with Hamilton been at fault about 10%

          2. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
            24th July 2021, 0:39

            @erikje

            All analytical pieces conclude Lewis lost control.

            For a guy who lost control, Lewis sure did an excellent job of making the corner after he was torpedoed by Maxcrash. Did the aforementioned analytical pieces witness Max lose control before and after contact?

            After all, Max still had 3 wheels on the car after the accident. Do you have any clue what Lewis can accomplish on 3 wheels? If I told you, you and all the fancy schmancy analytical pieces would not believe me :-)

          3. @erikje

            all analytical pieces have a time machine called replay button and access to 1000 cameras/angles and just like you, unlimited time in hand.

            if you must go deep into analysis, go to max’s onboard, he sees ham while closing the door on him, hesitates for a split sec but decides to push on expecting ham to back out… that itself puts a lot of the blame on max! he 80-90% racing incident 10-20% ham 10-0% max fault…. he has seen ham was inside even “hesitated” which means he was aware of ham’s position! thats why ham is not “fully” blamed, max had the other side of “predominantly” argument stewards made.
            ham had done enough to avoid max’s silly driving style, barcelona first corner, and british gp first corner was enough is enough points… so he stood his ground, just like max did 1000000 times! If max was inside, it was 100% ham’s off at the corner, if you are really honest, but i doubt that…

          4. @others here.
            Lewis was unable to nake the corner stick.
            He had to slow down after he torpedoed max. That was the point Charles passed the slowed car.
            Without braking after the incident Lewis would have left the track completely.
            Driver error, again.

        2. Living in lalaland. Take of your Hamilton glasses. I thought highly of LH until this mistake. Just own your mistakes, apologize and move on. But no …that was too much to ask. He was too focused on winning for home crowd and Tom Cruise. Maybe there is where LH gets his acting lessons. Me….to blame…? Max in hospital…? His car smashed…? Me celebrating over the top….? Haha great Innocent face though. Pride comes before the fall.

          1. @pulo

            living in lalaland, take of your max blinkers… no one cares what you think… do you really believe if ham was outside and max was inside, and ham fully commited max would back out? assume the outcome would be the same, do you think max would own up to his mistake? like he did say 1000 times, it is never his fault right? do you really think horner was gonna go on the radio and send apologies? or he was gonna be on the radio saying, look max was significantly along side ham into corner, and he was on the inside, ham pushed him towards the inside max didnt have time to react before the exit, it is pure racing incident or ham has seen him, max couldnt disappear… this is the most he was gonna say, he wouldnt own the mistake, and at the end of race he and max would cheer just as much!

          2. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
            24th July 2021, 15:29

            @pula sorry but you cannot be seriously blaming Lewis when Max is the most aggressive driver in the history of this sport. Max needs a lot of help from the other driver to avoid a collision – help he has received in abundance from Lewis even heading into this corner.

            Max is practically the architect of all his crashes including this one and if he wants to blame anyone, he needs to start with himself. You can’t improve unless you admit that you’re doing something wrong, right? Has Max improved over the years? Nope! In all his crashes you always wonder “what was he thinking there?”

          3. ”The most aggressive driver in the sport” is the only one with NO license penalties from a whole season of F1.
            Who’s wearing colored glasses? The stewards?

          4. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
            25th July 2021, 1:52

            Yeah, I pointed out the irony in another post. No penalty points for a driver who’s obviously between Maldonado and Mazepin in terms of reckless driving…. It’s borderline absurd that Verstappen has no penalty points – he should be leading that category.

    2. They can penalise them for wasting time with frivolous reviews,

      Reply moderated
    3. If anything duo in charge of RBR should shut their fowlmouth and start spanking their golden kid instead of stoking his ego and flames of fans.

    4. They can’t review the decision because they’ve already missed the deadline request a review – that has already passed several days ago, and they are fully aware that is the case.

      This is why this really sounds like it is an act that the team are putting on to string this out as much as possible in the press – if they were serious, they would not be going on in the press about it, they should have already acted.

      They won’t sue, not least because there is the risk that they could end up with an unfavorable judgement – but it stirs the press up and makes their fans think that they must be in the right, even if Red Bull drop the case.

      1. anon I think it likely that they composed their website verbiage when there was still time to consider a review from the stewards. As well, as I just reminded, this is a post on their own website not something they took to the press. And what is a review request anyway? Isn’t it just a request for a more in-depth explanation of the ruling from the stewards for the sake of clarity?

        1. Your argument is flawed, as the article contains information that only became available after the deadline had already passed.

          The article was also written with the intention of circulating it to the press – the point of publishing it on their website was to control the distribution of the article.

          This is entirely political – they won’t sue, but it is a useful way to keep news sites publishing the narrative they want promoted and to get people like you to keep pushing the message they want to make impress on others.

      2. On the Marbles
        26th July 2021, 11:28

        The price of the type of lawyers they’d instruct would probably double their losses when they lost!

        Not happening

        This is just an attempt to stoke an anti-Hamilton narrative AND keep the Red Bull name prominent in the Media; after all the entire reason Red Bull have an F1 team is high profile advertising, this incident is a two week dream PR advertising opportunity (oh poor us, plucky Max the hero taken out by dirty Dick Dastardly….blah blah).

        Almost serious individual involved in the sport that doesn’t have a Red Bull retainer thinks it was either a racing incident or that it was Lewis who was more at fault but with Max having the option to avoid it but failing by either not backing off or going wider. In no objective analysis is it 100% Hamilton’s fault.

        Reply moderated
  2. Is Ferrari going to send Red Bull the bill for all of the damage Max has done to their cars?

    Reply moderated
    1. No, they should hire him to drive pro bono.

    2. Net result is that Ferrari has to pay Max for at least Singapore 2017, Japan 2019, Sakhir 2020 and so on. What damage did Verstappen actually do? Verstappen has zero penalty points for years now.

      The Merc & Lewis plugging of aggressive Max is finding ground unfortunately. Many are falling for it, while forgetting Lewis has now hit 3 RB’s in something more than a year.

      1. max is known for his aggressive driving..but for some reason he often gets away with some of his wreckless moves.
        on other occassions,other drivers have to back out,to avoid max crashing into them.

        1. Aggressive but measured and without errors like Lewis is making.
          In this race Lewis was by far the most aggressive driver but lost control of the car doing it.

        2. Penalty points collected the last 2 years: Lewis 12, Max 0

    3. Yeah. i was wondering that too.

      Will this become a thing. Teams calculating the cost for damages incured.
      Maybe they’ll now have a spreadsheet of likely costs on hand as a rough guide to help the stewards make a decision.

      Or perhaps this info will on hand for future post-race post-crash press releases. I mean where will it end.

      If they’re going to release figures on the cost to fix broken cars, how about something on the cost to fix that. Im thinking of the Fuel to transport between venues, as well as fuel used per race. And then there’s the cost of switchng engines, developing new engines from scratch all becomes of this or that new engine spec.

      Sure they make money back, and that alone makes this enterprise, this sport, this entertainment; self-justifying. Ultimately its another example of engineered waste. Another kind of landfill in our persuites of excellence.

      So yeah, redbull tell us the costs… just don’t be selective, give us everything.

  3. I read in a motorsport.com article that Mercedes had inquired about Verstappen’s condition during the red flag. They were informed by race direction (which was informed by Red Bull) that Verstappen was conscious, had no major injuries and was relatively unharmed. That’s why Mercedes didn’t tell Hamilton to tone down the celebrations.
    There’s no other way around it, Red Bull have embarrassed themselves with their handling of this incident. My opinion of Horner is only getting worse.

    1. Totally agree. He’s had time to cool down and retract the disgraceful ‘professional foul’ comment, and instead he’s gone the other way. It’s been a great advert for Monster!

      1. Horner seems to think the way to get out of a hole is to keep digging. We’ve seen this sore-loser mentality coming out of Red Bull in the past. Looks they managed to suppress it for a while, but it’s just been backing up in there and is now bursting out again. It’s high time Horner, Marko & Co. learnt to suck it up and move on.

    2. That must be around the time he was on his way to the hospital
      Not a strong story..
      But it fits your narrative of course.

      1. I am glad you were on the call when Toto called the race direction. Was it on Zoom?

        1. Just follow the time line of events. Not so difficult.

    3. Hilarious to lose respect for horner (who seems like a really good team manager tbh) and (since you didn’t imply otherwise) to have respect for wolff, who constantly lies about every subject.

      1. Alex Limpkin
        24th July 2021, 10:31

        Right… so Horner praising Max for a similar thing and saying its lucky Lewis backed out or he would be in a wall is fine then.

    4. Perhaps it’s time for the FIA to take a leaf out of the football rules and add in the “bringing the sport into disrepute” charge.
      They could then apply it to the Red Bull management and shut them up for a while.

      1. That charge is there in the rulebook already @ceevee, though it hasn’t been used to my knowledge, and while I find the Red Bull piling on a bit tedious, I don’t think this should come to the level of being the sport into disrepute (their years long decrying of Renault and the current generation of PU’s by association, even though they did have some good points about that, certainly comes a lot closer, but rightfully wasn’t considered to be enough to get such a charge either.)

      2. Lol you Just made my Day with this hilarious comment. 🤣

    5. @carbon_fibre You could see Hamilton watching TV with Angela during the red flag. He would have seen Verstappen walking around.

    6. Agree 100%. It seems to me that Red Bull team’s management for the crash and the aftermath was absolutely appalling, and Horner is more and more becoming a sour character, like a young Marko-in-training. The whole RB environment seems extremely “toxic”, to use a word in vogue.

  4. Drivers race each other. Close to the others. Inches apart. Back and forth. At times they touch their cars, together. Hamilton’s front wheel could have broken off by Verstappen and Hamilton might have ended up into the barriers. Could have happened. The shoes would have been on the other feet. Each race and incidents are different each time. Sometimes the blames goes around and around.

    Hamilton and Verstappen are two of my favorite drivers on this grid. Things happen. Sometimes blame is thrown about. Next race is different…

    1. @bullmello

      Hamilton and Verstappen are two of my favourite drivers on this grid.

      Me too. But Horner is a bad element, seemingly determined to stoke animosity.

      1. – as an example, in this year’s DTS (last season) he says to Albon after Hamilton sent him out, half-joking at most: ‘he really doesn’t like you, does he?’ Clearly whatever Hamilton’s motivations were, or the reasons for the collision, they had nothing personal about them. So why stir that sense of animosity? And was that even good motivation for a team manager to a young driver under pressure?

        1. Well it was the second time Hamilton did that to albon, to give some context.

          1. In Lewis defense, he did not bump Albon out of the points in the single race in between the two incidents. :p

        2. Nikki Lauda warned that Lewis would punch Vettel, a few years ago.
          Christian has a long way to go to make such an off colour remark.

      2. @david-br – So much stuff from Horner over the many years. Much fighting over motors, manufacturers, drivers, teams, owners, etc. It goes on and on. Hard to believe any thing he ever says.

        1. Yeah, agree with both of you there @bullmello, @david-br.

          I wholly get that he was somewhat worried and upset right after the accident, or even right after the race. But keeping the hammering on this issue going by now is just tedious.

          Guess now they are even with Mercedes who lost probably a similar amount of money on the crash Bottas had with Russel.

    2. @Bullmello

      Thank you, a voice of reason

      Reply moderated
    3. No, it couldn’t, hamilton as far as I recall doesn’t come worse off an incident since 2014 spa, with the puncture with rosberg. There is ofc the mexico 2017 puncture due to vettel, but that wasn’t battling for position, it was a mistake from vettel which ended up hitting his rear tyre.

      When it comes to battle for positions, he knocks out verstappen (2018), knocks out albon (2019), albon again (2020), verstappen again (2021), not to mention all the times he crashed with vettel for overtakes, vettel span, never hamilton.

      1. Also with rosberg in austria 2016 it went well for hamilton.

      2. My point – “Drivers race each other.” Hundreds of F1 drivers, likely just over 1,000 or so in many years of time. They race. Race each other. Things happen. Each race is different, even in the future.

        @esploratore1 – Just one driver you are thinking of. That is your point.

      3. Max earned the nickname of “Crashtappen” and had a website dedicated to him called “HasMaxCrshedYet”.
        Don’t remember any other driver earning that sort of fame so quickly.

        1. But was it put up Fastor than Pastor??

        2. Pastor Maldonado too. Had a “HasMaldonadoCrashedToday” site for some time.

        3. (@ceevee)
          It was your website I guess.

      4. @esploratore1 Cute how you try and put the blame for that touché in 2018 from Verstappen on Hamilton.

        Did Verstappen hit the apex? No, no he didn’t. He just drove straight on and only turned in far away from the racing line near the edge of the track.

        Rosberg got a penalty for that same dirty move in Germany and Austria 2016. Verstappen probably would have too if he hadn’t taken himself out already.

  5. There isn’t a violin small enough for RBR.

    Reply moderated
  6. Whinge, whinge,whinge.

    It is racing. Get over it.

    1. Yup – another reason for his nickname Whinger Spice.

      Mind you, Toto Wolff said something similar after the Bottas & Russell crash at Imola, so… 🍿

  7. This is not encouraging, I had thought it was possible that Horner and Marco might apologize, or at least try to backtrack a bit as we move on to the next event. Horner called Hamilton ‘amateur’ ‘desperate’ incorrectly held Hamilton responsible for the wheel-banging on the Wellington straight, referred to the Copse move as ‘sticking a wheel up the inside’ when it was quite clearly most of the car.

    Horner’s credibility must surely be in question, he’ll have had a chance now to have calmed down a lot, he was overly emotional when he had his outbursts on Sunday. I think it will do his reputation good to try to clear the air.

    1. @paulguitar I agree. Even as an RB fan, I’m pretty ashamed of the comments coming out of Horner since the incident. Mercedes and Allison at least had it in them to apologise for suggesting Raikkonen’s incident with Hamilton at Village in 2018 was deliberate. If only RB could do the same…

      1. The one that could have and should have apologised was Hamilton of course.
        But he even fuelled the tension.
        With his remarks.

      2. Hamilton didn’t apologise! Compared to me horner is being too nice.

    2. I somewhat agree with Horner. Lewis had lost his temper in the heat of the battle, and amateurish and desperate moves. How did Vettel called Kvyat for a similar collision on the first lap of the race, a torpedo? So, we have a Silverstone torpedo now.

      1. demonstrated amateurish and desperate moves

    3. Most of the car? If you don’t hit the brakes when you should, at some point you’ll be in front of the place of where you’re supposed to be. He was on a collision course, and he’s not the rookie of the year, so no excuses please!

      1. That’s not the interpretation of most of the former F1 drivers, including several world champions, but I’m sure you know better.

      2. Yea, obviously Haikkinen, Montoya, Rosberg, Norris, LeClerc, etc know nothing. I want nuance on my racing incidents, that’s why I’m going with Bernie, Villeneuve and the Dutch guy nobody has heard of.

        1. ian dearing
          If you’re going for the opinion of renowed people why not accept the stewards decision on shared blame but not proportionally? The sporting guidelines don’t state that there must be equally shared blame between the drivers involved, so… What else is the argument in objection?

          Reply moderated
      3. Hamilton had the inside line, and therefore had to break before Verstappen (and did), which is one of the reasons Vertstappen was barely ahead of him at the entry, while having his rear wheel around HAM’s front wheel at the point of contact. Had Verstappen indeed breaked first, that collision probably wouldn’t have happened and he’d have raced on, maybe even won with a faster car after the round of pitstops. Not saying that’s what he should have done, but some of the commenters here, including apparently you George.be seem to show a strong lack of understanding of racing; @paulguitar isn’t exactly wrong that most of the people that know racing tend to see it as a racing incident after neither driver felt they could afford to concede the corner, though most do think Hamilton had significantly more blame.

        1. If Max breaked first? that is no corner to break as it’s a high speed corner. Face it Max couldn’t get out at all without losing.

          1. You are right, he could have lifted, or gone wide etc @macleod

    4. Horner’s credibility must surely be in question, he’ll have had a chance now to have calmed down a lot, he was overly emotional when he had his outbursts on Sunday. I think it will do his reputation good to try to clear the air.

      Not only his, it has been an ugly fight, finally reaching the spectacle some waited. But what would have happened if Lewis had recognised his role in the collision? Clearly both sides are wishful to detonate the fuse now.

      Reply moderated
    5. @paulguitar It is laughable to think CH and HM should apologize for anything. And you have inaccurately put a spin on this to suit your own point. He didn’t call LH amateur, but said it was an amateur move. He didn’t call LH desperate, but implied he was desperate to pass there for fear that that would be his last chance to get by Max. Your credibility can be questioned when you try to spin things as you have.

      In terms of ‘interpretation of most former F1 drivers’ it is really about the interpretation of the stewards, for they are the ones charged as F1’s referees for these things, and they deemed LH predominantly at fault and penalized him. If they agreed with some, and wanted to put as much fault on Max as his non-fans do, or even some neutral F1 insiders, they would have called it a racing incident, but they didn’t. You can try to hang your hat on what woulda, coulda, shoulda been called by the stewards, but the fact remains they laid it on LH, not on a racing incident, and certainly not on Max.

      1. Have you seen all of the interviews Horner did on Sunday @robbie? He said stuff even worse than what I quoted, including “He is having to go to the hospital for precautionary checks after a 51G accident. So I hope Lewis is very happy with himself,”

        It’s disgraceful behaviour from Horner. Max deserves better than to be advised by Horner, Marco and Jos. I’ve read that Lewis called Max this week. I hope and believe that between the two of them they are a lot more mature than those around them who should know better.

        1. @paulguitar Yes I saw the post-race interview and CH was obviously quite shaken and was still quite in the heat of the moment and was also quite diplomatic. Aside from the quote you have provided he said of Lewis ‘a driver of that caliber…’ there was nothing disgraceful whatsoever about anything CH said and his emotions at the time were very understandable. I’m sure Max is utterly happy with the RBR family around him that has his back. I’m also sure that if the shoe was on the other foot and it was Max that took out LH and celebrated as he did, and it was all ‘job well done Max’ TW and LH fans would be singing a different tune.

          1. @robbie

            Horner was clearly overly emotional. I’m not sure which of the interviews you saw, but the one with Ted Kravitz was embarrassing. I felt that Ted really wanted to gently encourage Horner just to stop digging, but he was unable/unwilling to do so.

            Max was winded, no injuries unless there is anything that has not been reported? Horner is carrying on as if Hamilton and Mercedes had been celebrating after something like the Niki Lauda accident. It’s unacceptable.

          2. @paulguitar No I really think you’re just not able to put yourself in his shoes, likely it seems to me from just not being a fan.

          3. @robbie I appreciate how talented Max is. Horner, not so much!

      2. Ok, so the stewards deemed Lewis “predominantly” responsible for the incident. He got his penalty, he served his penalty and then won the race. Time to move on. Lewis has paid the price for what the stewards deemed to be his error. That’s the end of the matter. Except CH, HM, MV, JV, esploratore, erik, Robbie and the Netherlands just will not let this go. Error made, penalty served, LET IT GO!

        1. You missed a lot I see.
          Max already stated “moving on,” the day after his crash.
          If only Lewis acknowledged his error it would have eased the situation.
          He was in the wrong, penalised for it but still blames max. Just like you do.
          So please move on indeed :)

  8. I don’t understand what they want when they say “a crash like this costs us X.xx million pounds”. Toto said the same after Imola when they blamed Russell.

    Crashes are inherent to Motorsport. Be it a problem or a competitor running into you, blameless or not, of course it’s going to affect the budget.

    Championship contention or not, it’s always a risk that something external could compromise your season. Just move on, man…

    1. @fer-no65 Yeah, and if RB didn’t factor in a damage budget into their budget cap planning then they are, quite frankly, stupid. You are never going to get through a whole season without a major incident, and they should hopefully be prepared for it when it eventually happens/happened.

      1. It’s this year’s budget and they are getting close to committing most of it.
        You cannot reserve $1.8M until the penultimate race, or $3.6M for the race before that.
        Or if you’re really prudent make that double as you race 2 cars.

    2. Shame for Red Bull, that the crash wasn’t in the sprint race, then they could have claimed some cash back!

    3. The irony is that it happened due to the Sprint (Max ahead) but 1lap late.
      Had it happened in the Sprint, then they’d be awarded extra budget ;)

    4. I don’t understand what they want when they say “a crash like this costs us X.xx million pounds”. Toto said the same after Imola when they blamed Russell. Crashes are inherent to Motorsport.

      That’s exactly what I thought went Toto came with his own account of Bottas-Russell crash, and now that Horner says the same.
      What are you guys doing in car racing if you don´t want to face the possibility of a crash? It’s becoming ridiculous.

    5. @fer-no65 Now that such crash eats about 1-2 % of their total budget we could hear more of that unfortunately. And I wouldn’t even be surprised if they end up considering money losses as an aggravating factor at some point. But maybe they’ll just end up whining less, like smaller teams. Interesting to see though that big teams and smaller ones share more of the same problems now.

  9. Heavy damage to Max’s car now, spun off Albon twice when the guy finally was going for big points (something rare, actually). Yet the evidence on Max being a driver so aggressive recently is just a few clashes in which he might have fully gone to the uncompromising side of hard racing, borderline out of sportsmaship but still without causing a major incident and no penalty points. So I ask LH fans where are the rose-tinted glasses that they use to see that way about it: Max being way more dangerous on track than Lewis apparently, like if he was still as accident-prone as in the past. In Barcelona when he was attacking and he allegedly delivered a dive bomb putting Lewis with no choice but backing off. How does it compare to Silverstone start incident? Wasn’t there a situation in which both had reasonable claims over the ideal racing line as well or not? If Lewis had chosen to not back off at Barcelona and the pair collided, would Max have got a penalty like Lewis did last GP or not? If that’s not the case, then why is it that way? How much of a Mad Max he was that time, please elighten me. ;)
    It happened on slow corners so not an extremely risky spot like Copse, even though clearly Max sent Lewis to the kerbs at Barcelona, but wouldn’t that be more comparable to Norris/Perez incident in the Austrian GP restart, if anything? If it was fully like that one, then he should have received a penalty, but I’ll rewatch this and other starts of the season’s races to be certain of the differences and similarities of those incidents.

    Reply moderated
    1. You want to be “enlighten” but fail to see what point everyone is trying to make. So, I’ll post here your own “Mr. Innocent” Max and “Mr. Its Fair Because My Driver Did It” Horner here trying to explain how its Stroll needs to give more space as Max had his wheel on the inside: https://youtu.be/naDVLIqLI_o?t=73

      Its a racing incident if it was anyone else. Consider yourself enlightened.

      1. Its a racing incident if it was anyone else.

        Had Max managed to get more than half car alongside Stroll Jr. just before the corner? If yes, not the same situation. If no, then we’re talking about a possible incident and not quite a safe drive, potentially worth of a penalty as there could be someone with most of the blame, depending on how much the driver inside failed to avoid a dangerous track positioning going to the turn.

        You want to be “enlighten” but fail to see what point everyone is trying to make. So, I’ll post here your own “Mr. Innocent” Max and “Mr. Its Fair Because My Driver Did It” Horner here trying to explain how its Stroll needs to give more space as Max had his wheel on the inside

        I’m sorry for disappointing you with that fanboy projection of yours, clearly coming from someone who is eager to see in others what he does the most, but I genuinely think that Max is in the wrong side if he had done the same thing that Lewis did last race. And I also don’t doubt that it might have happened in the past, we just need to see it case-by-case to prevent a confirmation bias skewing the analysis. It’s so easy to make any competitor look like he have only been robbed by the referee or something like that, then I’m just unimpressed by all those little fans making a full soap opera just because of a penalty issued after a collision caused by a driver.

        Reply moderated
  10. Maybe ask Verstappen, then, why he started to steer right, paused – undoubtedly the moment he realized exactly where Hamilton was – and then steered right again rather than doing what he could to avoid any contact. Sure, all very rapid, but that was a split-second decision to take the risk, undoubtedly. That’s why it was overwhelmingly viewed as either a ‘racing incident’ (view of many) or ‘Hamilton mostly at fault for miscalculating and understeering’ (view of many, perhaps most). Horner remains in the minority, unsurprising, but the idea that a hard racer like Max isn’t also an active element in this kind of incident is absurd. He pushed Hamilton as hard as he could over the opening lap, as he has done elsewhere, and by Horner’s own reckoning they would have collided previously had Hamilton not bailed out of a 50/50. In many people’s view, this incident was the culmination of this pattern with Lewis finally deciding to go for the pass. You reap what you sow. As for celebrating, Max was fine. Any complaints just sound sour and sore. As for the money, tough.

    1. Interesting, you describe a action of milliseconds as if it were minutes or seconds.

      1. I literally wrote ‘split-second’! But maybe you think that’s beyond Max? Obviously not, that’s why he made controlled ‘deliberate’ responses to the situation, however fast.

        1. Nice ! You can teach Max how to race!

      2. Yes, as we saw when Max supposedly closed the door on Ham going up the inside before Copse but instead left both the inside and outside wide open with his dithering, Max does need more than a split second to compute what is happening. As we again saw with the statement from Horner that Ham was going so fast he wouldn’t have even remained on track at Copse. Every other driver would have seen that; bailed, and watched serenely on as Ham disappeared off towards the wall. Not Max, he dives right in harms way.
        Must say I believed Max had a lot more skill than that, but both you and Horner have now convinced me otherwise.

        1. Max made an error of judgement when he thought Lewis would make the corner together with him. The space was clearly there. Two car widths. One where Lewis’ car actually was and one to the right of Lewis (where he positioned his car correctly the time he was overtaking Charles). Had Max faced reality that Lewis has got 12 penalty points in the last 2 years alone, he should have known Lewis wasn’t capable of pulling the move. But then again, should that be Max problem if others can’t keep up? Or Max thought that with so many penalty points Lewis would at least have the smartness to not fail again at an attempt on a RedBull, like he did twice on Albon. In the end its a pity and Lewis was lucky his clumsiness only costs RedBull. If I was Toto I would be worried though. Lewis needs to learn the team is bigger than his ego. If he had gone off he would have let down his team as well.

    2. In a right turn, I hope you would also steer to the right. Verstappen left plenty of space. Hamilton overshot the apex my meters. End of story.

      1. And jeopardizes a 33 point, rather than having the calm mindset to just let Lewis go.

        Max races as if every point is his last. As Lewis will tell you in his 2008 season, that makes winning the Championship harder and only possible if you have a peer which isn’t in your league

        Vettel did the same in 2017. We got a sign of aggression at Baku and then that crazy start at Singapore

        1. Max races as if every point is his last: don’t you just love it? I am insulted the other 19 don’t drive like that. After all its F1 not granny racing
          And it is Lewis who is the aggressive. It doesnt make sense to refer to what Obama/Oprah/Roger/a random person did when he was 18 or 19. Facts are 0 penalty points for Max, 12 for Lewis. So Max races as if every point is his last whilst not collecting penalty points. How can any F1 viewer oppose that? Seriously? What is it that you want? A clear track for Lewis to win 40 championships?

      2. not by meters as shown by palmer in his analysis.
        max turned all the way in like lewis wasnt there.
        like alonso said,,lewis cant just disapear.

        1. I get the reasoning here, I re-watched the replay few days ago, hamilton didn’t see verstappen during the straight, was probably expecting to be alongside and verstappen to let him go, then suddenly verstappen turned in and there was no chance, even with half compared to normal speed there didn’t seem to be the time to brake or turn enough to avoid the crash, however verstappen also, being ahead, could not expect hamilton to hit him, it’s reasonable to let your opponent past when there’s excessive risk and you’re 33 points ahead, but not if you expect to be ahead.

        2. Exactly, if you cant disappear and its not your corner… well then you .. up in your approach and its too late now… crash. Huge miscalculation on Lewis side. Toto should be happy (& worried at the same time), he might have collected serious damage as well with this clumsiness. After all he was racing Max. You know Max will not give you more space than is required. That is what we expect right, or we should change the entire format of racing.

      3. They weren’t near the apex yet, and if Lewis overshot what about Max? He hadn’t even touch the brakes yet when they made contact, well after Lewis hit his. If Lewis was not going to make it, as Horner suggest, Max would have not ether.
        I think they would have both made it without the contact.

      4. Yes! 100% agreed! End of story!
        So why are you and RB still whining and dragging this out?

    3. At least you admitted Lewis had a bigger share of blame for the collision than Max. It shows that you didn’t fall entirely as a Mercedes propaganda’s fool. The ones who said he was wholly to blame, however, for their turn had fallen for Horner’s narrative, taking that acritically. It’d be rather ingenuous to assume that any of those involved aren’t just defending their own interests but instead putting facts above themselves.

      Reply moderated
      1. Alex Limpkin
        24th July 2021, 10:46

        The voice of reason. Well done sir.

        I’m a Lewis fan but even I can see this.

      2. @rodewulf Actually I think it was a racing incident. Hamilton was more than enough level going into the corner to legitimately attempt a pass, right? That’s what the racing regulations state. So we can dispense with Horner’s absurd assertion that you can’t make an inside pass there. History before and after the incident indeed proves you can. So after Hamilton goes for the pass, the question is whether both drivers allowed space and attempted to avoid contact. That means Verstappen too. Hamilton was judged by the stewards to have acquired understeer and (therefore) not had complete control of his steering and not kept a tight line to the apex/kerb. However in my view (and no doubt others) Verstappen’s line, which he ‘doubled down’ on with the ‘double take’ as @f1osaurus puts it, makes him at fault too. Verstappen had more space and could have used it. So I’d say they cancel each other out. Racing incident. However, I think a 10-second penalty for Hamilton is a valid enough interpretation, not unreasonable.

    4. @david-br Yeah that double take is usually what the stewards use for appointing blame to the driver. When they first (instinctively) react trying to avoid the incident and then steer back in a few tenths later, they are actively going for that contact.

      It was what was used to blame Schumacher for his Adelaide and Jerez crashes and also Rascasse.

  11. Wow this is a new way to ruin the sport.

    1. Ruin the sport by penalising the offending party? You know, I hate rules and I’ve always wanted the fia to mind their own business and go back, but in this case it’s way too unfair, it could be, because of penalties, even a 40 points swing, so black flag is the bare minimum.

        1. Black flag?? Oh my! You dont REALLY believe that to be appropriate, do you? 🤦‍♂️

  12. I would love to see Horner appeal the stewards decision

    That would be nearly as entertaining as the British GP itself

    He should however bear in mind that they could also choose declare it a racing incident as much as they could apportion all the blame on Lewis

    1. @the-edge I think it’s actually more likely that the stewards will see it as a racing incident and nullify the penalty than make it harsher. But I think the most likely outcome sees no change at all, either because RB don’t pursue the case, or because these appeals hardly ever work.

      1. And also because if you cancel the penalty from hamilton it changes absolutely nothing, just bigger gap to leclerc and no penalty points (which in f1 are useless, no driver ever hit the ban).

    2. @the-edge Exactly it’s always hilarious when that Karen goes with his big mouth and actually encounters people who apply logic.

      It’s was absolutely hilarious when Red Bull tried his rhetoric against the stewards after having been caught cheating on maximum fuel flow. Karen Horner protested this and it was pointed out to him that their fuel flow estimation calculation was not accurate. Yet it got worse when it turned out that even their own under estimating system detected a fuel flow that was too high.

      1. Oh my.. Again the wrong team f1trollosaurus. Happens a lot in your dimension I guess.

  13. Red bull are DISGUSTING dog whistling with their anti Lewis obsession dragging out this 50/50 racing incident.
    Like a previous commentator said Max was fine if a little shocked and only went to a&e for insurance reasons so WHY shouldn’t Lewis be entitled to celebrate the win as a British driver winning the British GP?

    Red bull seem to be blind to history.
    MS celebrated when Senna was clinically dead but he never got any criticism, yes ms wasn’t ‘technically’ informed Senna had passed away but Roland Ratzenberger died a day earlier and virtually everyone was aware of Sennas injures when the race was red flagged. video footage suggests Williams pit wall had direct onboard feed of the crash hence unknown Williams member https://youtu.be/m86f54Tmf60?t=300 and a young Adrian Newey https://youtu.be/m86f54Tmf60?t=446 looking traumatized after the impact.

    The only reason why I brought up Imola 1994 is because RB need to have a reality check,

    Its insulting to put Max crash and virtually non serious injuries on the same scale as Sennas so why is spice boy and ‘helmet’ trying to paint Lewis has a ‘thuggish’ genocidal maniac?
    Again I always say I don’t know for certain if it is due to race but Lewis is always held to a higher standard for wherever reason compared to other drivers. If Perez taken out stroll at that corner no one would care, if Max taken out Lewis everyone would praise him and hype max as a “feisty raw young talent who took the fight to old rattled Lewis”(!)

    1. MS celebrated when Senna was clinically dead but he never got any criticism

      I see lots of critical remaks about Schumacher made by the so called “anti-Lewis” brigade on this site as well. Many commentators referred to him as the original Dick Dastardly or something on this level, with a couple of not quite honourable wins on his records. The fact of him being flattered by some easy unchallenged titles is always remembered here too. But the real problem is, for a fanbase who always wants to portray Lewis as wronged or oppressed, sometimes as far as accusing fellow competitors of racism without any solid evidence of it, such a thing won’t fit well their pre-arranged narrative and as such it needs to be erased from the discussion. Nothing against the fairy tail of him and Mercedes being the heroes and Max/Horner/Marko being the villains must ever be considered according to those lunatic fans.

      Reply moderated
      1. Exactly. I am dissapointed in ham. I thought he was the bringer of kumbaya and unity. But his attitude shows he it two-faced. Sad. His over the top celebration and “ congratulating” poor leclerc ( oh what a great racer! But moveout of my way!) and now with norris…. Oh the great champ! Hypocrite.

    2. @ccpbioweapon

      video footage suggests Williams pit wall had direct onboard feed of the crash

      They didn’t. The only feeds teams had on the pit wall/pits/paddock back then was the world feed been produced by the local host broadcaster (Same thing all broadcasters show) & the timing screens.

      None of the teams had access to any onboard video except for anything that was shown on the world feed as back then there was no continual feed from any of the onboard cameras as the analog heli-link system in use at the time only allowed for 4 onboard cameras to be live at any one time.

      Teams never got access to any live onboard feed until F1 digital+ launched in mid 1996 & never got access to live footage from there own cars until at all times until the current onboard cameras & distribution system was introduced from the start of 2016 as that was the first time FOM were able to pull live feeds from every car.

      The shot of the Williams pit wall in that video is also not a live shot so doesn’t sync up with the images. It’s probably a shot from a bit later on when it was more apparent that Senna was badly hurt. Remember they had only seen the same video everyone else had, They had no idea what had caused the accident or what condition there driver was in & the longer time went on the more serious Senna’s condition seemed to be (Especially given some of the shots the RAI TV chopper was capturing) yet nobody in the paddock was getting any clear information.

    3. According to reports in Autosport and elsewhere Merc got the all clear on Max before any celebrations from both a senior figure in RB and the FIA. I believe ‘uninjured and fine.’

      1. Look at the time line, he was on his way to hospital then.
        So rubbish.

  14. “He was travelling at such a speed that he was never going to make the apex of the corner and his trajectory through Copse meant he was never going to miss Max, even with braking he ran very wide after the accident.”

    This is exactly how I see the incident. Enough space to make the corner but too much speed to make the corner from the dirty inside position.

    But there is no need to keep on discussing this.

    1. if lewis was going too fast,how did he end up behind max,clipping max rear right.
      that must mean max was going even quicker into the corner at that point.

      1. @matt

        You can go faster on the outside than on the inside.

  15. Think the advertising Redbull are getting from all the headlines far outweighs the cost :)

    1. Ahah, that’s a good one, so many articles, but then again, it’s annoying and there’s not much to do till hungary, and then again 3 weeks to spa.

  16. Honestly I’m getting sick of this now.

    If they’re THAT tight on parts/spend then Max needs to take it easier wheel-to-wheel.

    For clarity it was Hamilton’s fault. But you didn’t see Merc react like this after Imola.

    1. How come? There was a full soap opera involving Bottas and Russell with Toto angrily wanting George to not fight hard for position against the Mercs (just to clarify, Russell was the one who caused the collision that time). They were left ruing the damage done as much as Red Bull is now plus a “domestic” quarrel to deal with.

      Reply moderated
    2. @jb784 We kinda did see merc reacting like this. Not quite to the same extent, but they too were making claims of it costing about £1 million, and giving Russell some very ambiguous but also specific warnings. Something to do with a Renault Clio Cup drive. But I agree that it is getting tiring.

    3. Apples to oranges! Mercedes had 2 merc-related drivers crash, this was from an opponent!

  17. Why did Max cut across Hamilton? If Hamilton had done what he did, I’d think he was a big wally too.

    Someone needs to give Christian Horner a lovely hug and gently stroke his hair. It’s OK Christian, there’s more great races coming up… Max will definitely win more of them by being aggressive, but fair. (At which point you can say something completely contradictory, or justify it by referencing this incident). Sheesh – get over it.

    1. Exactly. I hope Max will refer to it as: Well you know things happen when you race each other. Lewis misjudged and got penalised for it. I overestimated his abilities going into the corner. Maybe leading from the front all those years have made him a bit rusty. But it happens. I just wish that he would have chosen a slower corner to do his attempts since this is costing the team points, budget and grid penalties. But I am sure next time he will make a better decision. We all know how well off a driver he can be. Let’s just look forwards

    2. Maybe you missed it, but it was a corner. You have to steer to go around a corner.

      1. Don’t bother. They justify every mistake that Lord Hamilton makes. It will always be the fault of someone else, Lord Hamilton is like a Pope to them.
        To the rest of the world Lord Hamilton made mistake and shunt Max in the wall on the most highspeed corner of the circuit.

        1. He’s not a lord. He’s a Sir.

          1. Lord voldemort! We learnt in 2017 that hamilton means voldemort!

          2. 2021, sorry.

          3. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
            24th July 2021, 16:02

            @esploratore don’t’ fret, that wasn’t that inaccurate – just 4 seasons off. For some folks, that’s a bullseye:)

        2. Not to the rest of the world, only to those slavish followers who worship Max or do not understand what predominantly means. Which quite often are one and the same.
          You should get together with the Ham fans who live on the edge of reason, you have so much in common.

          1. Interesting how you downplay my comment. But you fit perfectly in my comment above about, excuse me, Sir Hamilton.

          2. @ruben The correct version is ‘Sir Lewis’.

  18. Get over it and move on, you have the fastest car on the grid, either concentrate on your own racing and you will win the championship, or get distracted by spitting your dummy out because Max eventually had a serious incident which he has almost been looking for since joining f1 with his aggressive driving style, and you will ultimately lose out in the drivers championship to an inferior car all because as a team you cannot accept that in motorsport sometimes accidents will happen

    Reply moderated
  19. RB wasting all of this time and energy on an event that ended 3 days ago is just handing Merc a bigger advantage

    It doesn’t matter what anybody on any side of the argument says… they have more chance of changing the gravitational pull of earth than they have of changing someone on the other sides mind

    1. Yep! It is a bit strange why they are so OTT about the incident.

      If I was Max’s chief, I’d be gently asking him why he felt the need to defend aggressively when he has a 33 point lead.

      1. Defending against sir Lewis.. Not allowed.
        Knowing your comments here it must be racist to do so.

    2. @the-edge I agree. It reminds me of 2017 and Ferrari’s aggressive attitude to challenging Mercedes and Hamilton, which ended up with the Baku debacle and the beginning of a series of mistakes by Ferrari and their lead driver. I suspect Max himself is cooler headed than any of the three of Horner, Marko and Verstappen Sr. And he needs to be. He should reevaluate the opening lap at Silverstone and work out how he could have driven to win rather than score 0 points. Was it necessary to drive right up to Hamilton on the straight, brushing tyres? He’s racing a 7-time champion (Max is a 0-time still, worth noting) who is known for aggressive driving himself and is – obviously! – ultra-competitive. As the Brazilian saying goes, if go on prodding the jaguar, at some time it’s going to turn round and bite (not good). Both Mercedes and Red Bull know Hamilton won this psychological battle. It explains some of Horner’s desperate remarks.

      1. On the Marbles
        26th July 2021, 11:43

        I don’t know about Max having a cooler head than the rest of those you mention, he can appear very composed but I do worry that he’s just bottling it all up like a wee pressure cooker….look at the incident with Ocon a few years ago (Brazil 2018).
        After an accident that is mostly Ocon’s fault (although Max still manages to finish P2), he makes threats about Ocon while he’s still driving, and then tries to follow through on them with an attempt to start a fight by assaulting him after the GP. Gets sentenced by the FIA to a couple of days community service. Maybe he’s cooler headed now….maybe……

        Reply moderated
  20. eventually we’ll have drivers suing drivers and teams suing teams
    and all drivers scared to race eachother
    itll destroy the sport.

    1. Heading that direction. :((
      One leg is there already. Penalties and penalty points for every move. Budget cup will soon be a reason for lawsuits, teams demanding repair expenses to be covered from the other party budget.

  21. What a embarrassing behaviour from Horner and Red Bull.

    1. Hamilton’s, mercedes’ and the grandstands’ behaviour was nice instead, lol.

      1. How do the grandstands behave badly?

      2. @esploratore1

        I encourage you to go on YouTube and watch some of the various grandstand footage.

        I expected to see the British fans acting badly.

        The truth is the fans in the grandstand cheered when he and Hamilton make contact.
        But when he crashed hard they quieted until they knew he was ok. They cheered once when they could see on the video that he was okay, and they cheered again when he exited the car.

        I’ve been to a NASCAR race, the behavior I saw there was so disgusting that I’ve never been back.

        I think anyone who criticizes the British fans response instantly proves their pro-Verstappen or or anti-Hamilton Lewis emotions rule their vision.

  22. A lot of money. But if Max will take the championship of will make it even more sweeter.
    I don’t agree with the budget cap and engine cap when it’s destroyed in a crash. Would be fair to exclude the engine and budget cap if other driver is fault to the crash. For RedBull the impact is not as big, but for smaller teams it is.

    1. I think that is the whole point of there claim. Who is going to pay for all of this. Since Lewis was at fault (according to the stewards ruling), they probably hope the costs won’t come out of there budget cap.

      The same for the engine penalty that is coming. This engine was relatively new.

      Losing 25 points is one thing, but the pain is far from over.

      And I can’t blame them for trying. The FIA didn’t think this one through, when they wrote the rules.

      1. You think Honda would have any truck with this sort of nonsense? Yamamoto made it clear almost immediate that he considered it a racing incident.

        1. He’s talking about Red Bull, not Honda. Honda only supplies the engine and can’t blame FIA about this.

      2. The FIA wasn’t the only decision maker, the teams where part of it and if I remember well Horner was a big whining proponent of the deal.

  23. Given what Horner said about the cost of the wrecked Merc at Imola and the RB, I assume the RB cost twice as much as the Merc?

    Love to see this go to court though.
    Merc first witness:-‘Racing Incident’ Yamamoto. Honda

    And how deeply embarrassing Horner’s behaviour must be for Yamamoto and Honda. Particularly when RB threw away constructor points to save Max one. In this team the driver really does come first.

    So what next? Just waiting for one of RB’s tame journos to ‘leak’ that in the interest of the sport RB will not pursue this issue.

    1. Not good at maths? Perez lost a point and removed 1 from hamilton with the fastest lap, he couldn’t have taken points from hamilton any other way. So likewise red bull lost a point to take one from merc.

      1. Not good at following a race are we? Missed a pit stop did you? And how do you take one WCC point from Merc with a FLAP?

        1. There’s a certain ‘Yoda’ quality to that post :)

        2. You really do not have a clue do you :)

  24. Jeffrey Powell
    23rd July 2021, 22:40

    The result of this incident (criminal attempt by a driver that should know his place) is substantial damages to the entirely innocent genius at the wheel of the substantially damaged and bear in mind owned by a pure ethitically perfect humanitarian, managed by an Austrian deity ( rubbish poor substitute for Jochen Rindt) I would suggest General Accident or perhaps AXA or perhaps canal barging .

  25. This is a massive can of worms, The stewards cannot be pressured into changing penalties retrospectively or else every race would be followed by months of legal disputes. Out of interest would the legal fees come out of team budget?

    1. On the Marbles
      26th July 2021, 11:51

      Wouldn’t be the first time the British Grand Prix was decided months later after appeals and deliberations though…..

      (Brands Hatch 1976….)

      Reply moderated
  26. Horner indicated Red Bull is still considering whether to request the stewards review of the incident.

    If they don’t protest, then that says all that needs to be said. Teams know when they have a case worth fighting, all the media huff and puff is just to drive engagement.

    1. Problem is appeals are rarely successful, vettel losing the win in canada 2019 was a joke as well, but appeal didn’t work.

  27. tristan murray
    23rd July 2021, 22:50

    Did he really expect Hamilton to show any restraint?

    Reply moderated
    1. Nope, but until then all passes showed mutual respect. Lewis crossed the line there and lost respect.

  28. It’s motor racing. Crashes happen. Stewards hand out punishments where they consider a driver to be at fault. Everyone is happy when someone is not hurt in a crash.

    Red Bull gives you whinges.

    Reply moderated
  29. Neil (@neilosjames)
    23rd July 2021, 23:43

    He’s starting to remind me of ‘Power Unit Whinge Horner’.

    At least this particular resurrection of that incredibly boring, ‘click off the website/mute the TV’ individual should only last for a few weeks at the most. I hope.

  30. You enter a car into a race at your own risk, there is no insurance, you pay ya money and take your chance.
    As for retrospective changes to penalties or penalties given retrospectively, would that mean if Lewis is subject to this He can challenge Spa 2008? what about Brazil 2007 when the BMW’s were found to be using cool fuel? can Lotus claim compo for Webber’s somersault at Valencia 2010? hell, as everyone is suing and challenging everyone why not Hill for Adelaide 1994.
    Max’s gun hoe the corner is mine or you go in the fence style, openly praised and encouraged by Horner and Marker has backfired massively and now they are reaping what they have sowed.

      1. Interview with Horner about Stroll incident, well worth a watch.

        https://youtu.be/naDVLIqLI_o

        1. F1 British Grand Prix 2013 View from Copse Corner Silverstone

          https://youtu.be/ocQl7SXCZ4c

          1m 54s in you see the 2 Marussia’s going through Copse side by side on the opening lap.

          1. Chilton not understeering into Bianchi. Amazing

          2. The Marussia on the outside is giving room to the one on the inside and thus, no problem.

    1. You enter a car into a race at your own risk, there is no insurance, you pay ya money and take your chance.

      True to some extend, the rules changed this year, so has the playing field. You can’t spend al the money you have anymore.

      So you have 150 mln to spend, but you are allowed to spend no more than 100 mln and someone breaks something worth 1,5 mln. You get upset, real fast. And if the one who broke this is your direct opponent, you’ll get furious.

      If the tables were turned the same thing would’ve happened. And I can’t blame them. Toto was furious at GR and now RB is furious at Merc.

      No mather who you support, or even if you are a neutral supporter, we don’t want a budget cap to dominate a championship. RB not able to fight in the last races due to no more available parts is just rubbish. The same if it were Merc. If you pushed an engine to hard yourself, so be it. You crashed because an tire exploded, bulls… you crashed through someone else’s fault, bulls…

      The budget cap has take account for these circumstances.

  31. This is heart-breaking to read, I’m in a flood of tears here. Surely someone will set up a gofundme page before the team go under?

    1. Surely someone will set up a gofundme page before the team go under?

      I think they made a drink about it. Tough times for fans of fizzy caffeine everywhere.

  32. This is a more rational, less emotionally charged Horner expressing himself. He probably read back his own comments after the Spanish GP. I’m eternally grateful VER is OK, though still a tad worried that we aren’t getting the full picture on his condition. Side-on impacts are generally rough and 51G is insane.

    1. Well its quite high but a fair way from F1 driver and George Medal recipient David Purley. 180G.
      Or Kenny Brack’s 214G

    2. We’ve seen much bigger accidents not resulting in injury. Max was winded, and no doubt will be sore, but not more than that, however much Horner tries to dramatize it.

      1. Front or even back impacts do have a lot more space to take the forces. Side impacts are very harsh with only a piece of foam to absorb 51G.

  33. In this era of cost caps, I’m surprised that nothing has been implemented in the way insurance works in reality for everyone else

    If a team/driver is found to be at fault for causing a collision, then that team should be responsible for the cost of the repairs. It doesn’t seem quite fair that the offended party should have to suffer both from potentially losing a result as well as then a hefty fee on top of that.

    1. I don’t follow that. This is professional racing, accidents and costly repairs are bound to happen….if a team isn’t funded for that they shouldn’t be there.

  34. Oh give it a rest Horner ! Where was your outrage when Max was wrecking people left and right ? He really needs to move on….

    1. Penalty points comparison of the two driver please. Dont repeat thing fed to you by the media please

  35. Andy (@andyfromsandy)
    24th July 2021, 9:32

    There is nothing on the engine yet. It went back to Japan for checking and testing.

    Why cry before you are hurt?

  36. Meh, rummage around at the back of the garage, I’m sure you will find a few bits lying round. The rest you can buff out.

  37. How much did the crash cost when RB had illegal under inflated tyres?

    1. @jimfromus And your evidence of that is? Let me guess…because LH suggested it.

  38. I see nothing wrong with what CH wrote on their own website.

  39. Consider this.
    Max has never ever caused another driver to crash?
    CH is being beyond hypocritical.
    Maybe, just maybe.
    Mercedes should take Max & RBR to a criminal court.
    There due to the overwhelming evidence that Max didn’t even twitch his steering wheel away from LH, & in fact tightened his turn to the right. Thereby causing the collision. In making zero attempt to avoid contact Max & RBR should be charged with attempted manslaughter.
    Now see just how ridiculous CH’s continued whining & continual pressure really is?

    1. No sorry, I just see how ridiculous yours is

  40. Horner indicated Red Bull is still considering whether to request the stewards review of the incident.

    IF Red Bull do this, then what? Every other team that think have a good reason will also start calling lawyers?
    How ridiculous!
    How can F1 have stewards and a system in place if whatever decision can be brought into disrepute?
    It’s just shameful.

  41. I didn’t see anything to blame anyone.They are racing.Both were aggressive.Max didn’t hit the breaks until the collision.He was at 300km/h at the collision and I am afraid that he couldn’t be able to do the curve as he lost the break .He was a kind of desperate to avoid the overtake.At the other hand Lewis gap speed was almost 20km/h and he thought he could overtake Max.He hit the breaks at 25m dropping his speed from 314km/h to 270 km/h at the point of collision.

    Reply moderated
  42. If this does go to Court, Merc will introduce this as exhibit A

    Watch it in slow motion and pause it at 52s, If you watch the whole incident at 0.5x speed you can see why Lewis says he cut across me, and I tend to agree.

    https://youtu.be/QcADs-Wluwg

    1. Verstappen was taking as much of the racing line as possible whilst ahead of Hamilton and whilst leaving room for Hamilton and hoping that Sir Hamilton would do the right thing and stick to his own best racing line for the corner. Hamilton did not even take the apex of the corner. Is Heathrow Airport in the direction Hamilton was going? He was off to catch a plane not a corner. He was driving into Verstappen’s space at a rate of knots. Under steering into Verstappen no less. The jury is out. Hamilton had no intention of taking that corner properly. His clear intention, as he is a precision driver, was to take Verstappen’s available space away. Which he did. As simple as that. Hamilton is experienced. He knew if Max was still there that Max would end up being punted off. He knows. He has played this scenario through his head many many a time. I have watched the tape many a time as I am sure the stewards did as well. Clear ad day whose fault it was. Hence the penalty. A judge would laugh you out of court on this one as to whom was a fault. Most F1 drivers are either sitting on the bench or state that it was Hamilton’s fault. Totally lob sided. Hamilton will have to put on his best poor Mr Innocent Victim act ever on this one. I don’t see why Red Bull don’t take it further. The punishment Hamilton received is in no way substantial enough. Red Bull need to be compensated at the least. How do you like them Apple’s? I hear Trump’s old lawyer is available for Mercedes maybe?

      1. Putting on a legal cap for a minute I imagine it would go something like…

        ‘He was driving into Verstappen’s space’
        As you can see from the exhibit A, car 44 was effectively side by side with car 33 as they approached the corner, as you can see from the video and car telemetry, car 44 came off the throttle and started to turn while experiencing slight understeer, which should of been anticipated by car 33. Car 33 can then be seen passing in front of car 44 and making contact, please be aware as submitted exhibit B, the race notes on overtaking, (see Allison article about overtaking on this site)
        We would like to call exhibit C, video and telemetry from car 33. As you can see from car 33 video and telemetry, car 33 while effectively side by side with car 44 approaches the corner and turns into the corner without any allowance for car 44 presence, as you can see from projected trajectories car 33 makes no attempt to allow car 44 to proceed around the corner as of the conditions of exhibit B.

        That took me 2 minutes to come up with, can you imagine what the top Lawyers from Mercedes will come up with given weeks.

      2. Yup, clear as day whose fault it was as you say. Hence why those who had the information and investigated it used the word predominantly. In other words not wholly to blame. And when drivers and the Honda part of RB say it was a racing accident, that is not sitting on the fence. Although from this and previous post I see you don’t do nuance and only see things in binary terms. And if you are going to use ‘the jury is out’ to sum up your case, that is you admitting that the case is not clear. So thanks for putting the case for RB, only to then admit they you have not proven the case.
        Looking at this and the rest of your posts you really have some strange ideas on what words actually mean. I think you need a thesaurus. And if you don’t know what that is; buy yourself a dictionary and work forward. (JJ)

        1. What a strange or should I say bizarre reply ;-) As for the ‘jury is out’, that just goes to show that this isn’t a straight forward case of assigning blame to a single party, it was a racing incident, that must be filling the Lawyers eyes with Pound signs. As for not filling my posts with nuanced histrionics and keeping it simple with binary posts and not filling it with obscure synonyms, I think, is the proper way to have a discussion….. but each to there own.

          1. Upon reading the above back I should of ended it (@Keith, give us a edit button)

            is the sensible way to have a text based conversation with people who’s native language might not be English….

          2. @f1-plossi Look again. I was replying to Stash.

          3. @ian dearing, My bad, explains why I thought it was odd, forget the edit button, where’s the delete :-)

      3. When someone is blind that’s a handicap, when someone is stupid that’s a choice. Please choose wisely. Have a look at Jolyon Palmer’s accident analysis.

  43. They’re RACING. Racing is EXPENSIVE. Sometimes racing is NOT FAIR.

  44. Maybe Hamilton has had time to think about it now and can come clean and redeem himself in some magical way and win the next race at the same time. Just own it Lewis. I would rather Hamilton be known as an occasional racing driver Richard as opposed to an occasional racing driver Bletch. Bletch’s are real and they are out there. Don’t be a Bletch Lewis. Sir Hamilton. Be like Michael Norman Randall to start with. You got this.

    1. @stash

      I read that twice but have absolutely no idea what you’re saying?

  45. I didn’t realise F1 cars were expensive. Thanks Christian

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