The long-standing row over the use of the Lotus name will finally be resolved next year.
The FIA’s Formula 1 Commission has approved changes which will see Lotus renamed as Caterham, paving the way for Renault to take the name Lotus from next year, according to the BBC.
A further change will see the Virgin team formally change their name to Marussia next season.
In May the High Court ruled Lotus had the right to the name Team Lotus, and not Renault, who are sponsored by car manufacturer Group Lotus. The pair have been in negotiations to resolve the dispute since then.
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Image © Renault/LAT
Tommo N7 (@tommothfc)
3rd November 2011, 17:43
Also, Ferrari become McLaren, and Sauber will then be known as Ferrari.
John H (@john-h)
3rd November 2011, 18:45
Indeed. How are the stats for Lotus going to add up!?
I wonder what Sean Kelly (https://twitter.com/#!/virtualstatman) will make of it all?
Calum (@calum)
3rd November 2011, 19:44
They won’t be Team Lotus will they?
Perhaps “Lotus Grand Prix”while Fernandes keeps the legal rights to use Team Lotus (but doesn’t use them)?
Mike (@mike)
3rd November 2011, 20:29
I don’t believe they can call themselves “Team Lotus”
However, I suspect I’m wrong. Or at least, no one would stop them if they did.
matt90 (@matt90)
3rd November 2011, 21:00
If they resolve their differences and Lotus sell the Team Lotus name to Lotus (if you follow) then it’ll be weird. It’s bad enough that they decided to resurrect the Lotus name for a random team, but they impressed me by embracing ‘their’ heritage. Going to Group Lotus would at least keeps it in the family, but swapping the name across between teams is just strange and confusing.
Bullfrog (@bullfrog)
4th November 2011, 22:03
Number of points shouldn’t be a problem, that hasn’t changed…but will Lotus claim Renault’s championships (with Alonso) or Lotus’s wins (with Senna) or Benetton’s titles and wins (Schumacher, Berger, Herbert) going back to the days when they raced against both Lotus and Renault?!
Good luck to anyone who’s compiling the stats for a 2012 season preview, let’s see if you all agree with each other…
Mike (@mike)
5th November 2011, 3:00
If the team becomes Team Lotus, then Senna’s I’d imagine. As they have been claiming heritage from that team. Therefor it makes sense that it’s a continuation from there.
But then, if they become Lotus but not Team Lotus, Which would require them to buy the rights to the name which wouldn’t be cheap. Then they’d probably count as a new team in terms of stats should they go with just “Lotus”. Just because they are not in fact, Team Lotus.
Or maybe not. The team isn’t changing hands, just applying for a name change. Other teams have done that and there stats have been continuous. I.e. Scuderia Marlboro Ferrari became Scuderia Ferrari or the Virgin change in this very article. In fact, This option weighs up, just because Group Lotus, the current teams owner, Won’t claim that it’s a new team, but a continuation of the old one. (To protect this years prize money). So really, it’s the same Renault as it was this and last year, which means, They should be claiming the same championships as the former Renault team, so I think. Alonso’s it should be/
However, Renault doesn’t own the team despite the name, so that is remarkably unlikely as well. Added to the fact that Group Lotus are claiming the Team Lotus history (As they have been for many years).
So in summary, I really have no idea!
(Assuming that GL actually bought out Genii capital)
Alfie Widger
3rd November 2011, 20:03
You bloody funny sod. I spilled yoghurt on my keyboard!
OmarR-Pepper (@)
3rd November 2011, 17:44
Well so that sets some order and gets rid of the problems for the name… I wonder how it started but it was just a political issue.. new sponsors have finally settle this situation down.
Andy Redden (@andyredden-on-f1)
3rd November 2011, 17:47
common sense prevailed. Marussia do worringly remind me of Midland F1 however. Shame to see a big name like Virgin go.
BasCB (@bascb)
3rd November 2011, 18:13
yeah, but they did that with the livery already.
Calum (@calum)
3rd November 2011, 18:16
And the Russian links… but you mean because it’s a supercar manufacturer and lots of name changes right? Like Spyker Midland F1.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
4th November 2011, 0:32
The thing about Midland is that they weren’t really Russian. Alex Shnaider, who owns the Midland Group, was born in St. Petersburg, but that’s about it (Shnaider himself is Canadian). The team competing under a Russian racing licence was little more than a symbolic gesture.
Also, this techncially isn’t an ownership change. Virgin simply bought the naming rights to the Manor team. Marussia actually bought into Manor, with the trade facilitated by Virgin. Virgin’s name will disappear from the constructor name, but they will stay as a major sponsor. I believe this may have been Richard Branson’s plan all along, finding a young and promising manufacturer to ally with the team, but the timetable was moved up much faster than anticipated.
BasCB (@bascb)
4th November 2011, 7:31
@prisoner-monkeys I think you might well be right here about Virgin and its plans.
Another name once again? What’s the occasion.
Michel S. (@hircus)
3rd November 2011, 20:13
Given Branson’s reluctance to spend big money, and using F1 only as a branding exercise, it’s probably a good thing that he makes way for a more serious operation (plus, good riddance to Wirth’s 100% CFD gamble!)
drmouse (@drmouse)
4th November 2011, 12:35
I was actually quite disappointed to see that go. If they’d given it a few more years to gather the data they needed to improve their CFD model, they could have been showing everyone the way forward.
Although if they had given it a few more years, they’d probably have died a death before collecting said data.
AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner)
3rd November 2011, 17:49
Makes things a little nearer I guess.
Caterham will be over the moon about that!
Grace (@grace)
3rd November 2011, 17:55
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76RrdwElnTU
BasCB (@bascb)
3rd November 2011, 18:17
:-D
Alfie Widger
3rd November 2011, 20:03
:D
damonsmedley (@damonsmedley)
4th November 2011, 17:10
:D
Wait, why are we happy about this?
Oh, right…
:D
Younger Hamii (@younger-hamii)
3rd November 2011, 17:57
Didnt even know much about the situation until today,considering that im a big F1 Fanatic but if right its…
Lotus = Caterham in 2012
Renalut = Lotus in 2012
If so then im really really upset to see the Renault name disappear F1,An iconic figure(For good & bad reasons) in Motorsport & always will be.
Younger Hamii (@younger-hamii)
3rd November 2011, 17:58
disappear from f1 apologises for the mistake
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
3rd November 2011, 18:06
@younger-hamii
It’s not all bad on that front – they will be engine suppliers to a third of the grid next year.
Michel S. (@hircus)
3rd November 2011, 20:14
and that’s precisely their involvement in their most successful era anyway
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
3rd November 2011, 17:58
So how confident are we these three teams will have the same names in 2012 as they will in, say, 2017?
Assuming they’re all still on the grid…
Stig 3 (@thestig94)
3rd November 2011, 18:02
Maybe Renault (now Lotus) perhaps but I’m not so confident that “Caterham” or “Marussia” will make it in their current guises.
BasCB (@bascb)
3rd November 2011, 18:21
I rather think Lotus might succumb altogether by then, if they do not start making a more sensible strategy.
Marussia is there for a while, they are serious about their bussiness, but it will take them a while to get enough name for themselves.
I think Fernandes is in with Caterham for a longer spell as well. After all, building up a brand, conquering the Asian markets with racing and road cars will take maybe a decade.
I rather am curious about STR and HRT longterm.
DVC (@dvc)
5th November 2011, 0:43
I really wish STR could be called Minardi again. :(
MVEilenstein (@mveilenstein)
3rd November 2011, 18:05
In 2017 every team will be owned by a Middle Eastern prince or government; every race will be sponsored by a Middle Eastern bank; every track will be owned or operated by a Middle Eastern investment firm.
Joey-Poey (@joey-poey)
3rd November 2011, 18:31
Save for the European rounds which will be owned and operated by Santander
rpiian (@rpiian)
3rd November 2011, 18:57
Like a boss.
Arkadiusz Kuna (@thekuna)
3rd November 2011, 20:33
And in 2027 Middle East will run out of gas, while teams will be taken over by various alien races from other planets.
marsianwalrus (@einariliyev)
5th November 2011, 22:35
no just Chinese
Calum (@calum)
3rd November 2011, 18:31
I can’t see (Virgin) Marrusia being called Marrusia, I think the car manufacturer are just in for the short term to get their name to the West, I had never heard of the Marrusia brand before so their plan has worked (on at least 1 person).
(AirAsia) Team Caterham will still be there. I hope, I like this team regardless of name the best. I hope they have a yellow livery next season, just because and inverted Team Lotus livery would signal a fresh start, while having links to the old team, and it would look brilliant!
Lotus. If the imaginary money dries up through £80m 4 year sponsorship deal with Genii, sponsorship of KV in the Indycar series, funding of the Lotus-LMP2 car for LeMan series – as well as building the infrastructure to manufacture 4 or 5 new cars on a big scale – then there’s a snowball in hells chance this team will be called Lotus in 2017!
Calum (@calum)
3rd November 2011, 18:33
Aside from Mclaren and Ferrari, I wouldn’t bet on any of the others being in F1 in 2017 under their current guises.
matt90 (@matt90)
3rd November 2011, 21:16
I reckon Mercedes will. And Williams will limp on- if they were bought out nobody would allow that name to die I reckon. Sauber could survive too. I wouldn’t even be surprised is Force India keep their name.
Ilanin (@ilanin)
3rd November 2011, 18:32
Lotus I cannot see staying around; Dany Bahar’s rather silly business model will almost certainly crash and burn before 2017, especially in the current economic climate.
Caterham, on the other hand…well, I’m pretty certain that a team owned by Tony Fernandes that uses the resources of the current Caterham team in Norfolk (he may eventually get around to moving them out to Malaysia, I do not expect it to happen though) will be there. What it will be called…well, Caterham is the most likely option. I could see it being Lotus though.
About Marussia, I have no idea.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
3rd November 2011, 18:07
Also worth noting, as Vijay Mallya indicated last week, Force India will officially remain as Force India and not Sahara Force India.
electrolite (@electrolite)
3rd November 2011, 19:15
But in the official sponsor name will it be Sahara Force India? Like Ferrari used to be Scuderia Ferrari Cigarette Brand?
Calum (@calum)
3rd November 2011, 19:21
Exactly – “Sponsor Chassis-Engine”
He compared it to ‘Vodafone Mclaren-Mercedes’ in his speech.
Himmat
4th November 2011, 9:27
Or Petronas Mercedes GP
MJ4
4th November 2011, 9:33
Force being their chassis, and India their motor supplier :-)
drmouse (@drmouse)
4th November 2011, 12:39
MJ4: Love that!
damonsmedley (@damonsmedley)
4th November 2011, 17:12
The whole team naming business has become ridiculous in the past 12 months. It’s so complicated! I found it confusing enough when Jaguar became “Red Bull”…
rpiian (@rpiian)
3rd November 2011, 18:40
Finally. I was confused enough as it was when I started watching F1 in ’06 with two Red Bull teams! Can’t imagine what it was like for the poor souls this season.
KaIIe (@kaiie)
3rd November 2011, 19:07
So that’s the third name change in two…three years for Team Lotus (Lotus Racing > Team Lotus > Caterham) and Virgin (Manor > Virgin > Marussia). I hope they’ll stick to the new names for a while…
electrolite (@electrolite)
3rd November 2011, 19:12
Well it’s that’s better than Lada, Proton, and well, Virgin always sounded a bit silly.
damonsmedley (@damonsmedley)
4th November 2011, 17:13
Yep. I suppose the whole “Virgin” enterprise sounds a bit silly though, doesn’t it? :P
One wonders what was going through Sir Richard’s mind…
xxiinophobia (@xxiinophobia)
4th November 2011, 21:56
@damonsmedley I actually remember reading once that Branson has used the name Virgin for his business ventures because it dates back to his first business, which was a record store in London. He chose the name because he had no experience running a business, and thus, was a virgin entrepreneur.
damonsmedley (@damonsmedley)
5th November 2011, 1:22
@xxiinophobia
Thanks! I was hoping someone smart would reply. Interesting. It’s funny, because the whole “Virgin” empire doesn’t sound too strange any more. It must have been a bit unusual when it started though, was it not?
xxiinophobia (@xxiinophobia)
5th November 2011, 5:08
@damonsmedley I don’t know, you’d have to ask him. :p
ajokay (@)
3rd November 2011, 19:16
At least now Lotus will have a British flag above the door, you know, like they should.
electrolite (@electrolite)
3rd November 2011, 19:32
Yeah absolutely! It’ll be nice to have another British Team with a British name to go with it.
Joey-Poey (@joey-poey)
3rd November 2011, 21:45
Yeah, a real British name like Benetton!
-er, wait…
celeste (@celeste)
3rd November 2011, 23:11
lol
damonsmedley (@damonsmedley)
4th November 2011, 17:18
I’m quite sad about it, actually. I loved having Renault as a constructor and I’ll miss them, as they’re only really an engine supplier again now.
sumedh
3rd November 2011, 19:28
So Renault are engine suppliers for Lotus, Caterham, Red Bull and Williams next season. But not one of them will be named as Renault?
I wonder how this stands up against the customer car row which seems to be brewing too.
ajokay (@)
3rd November 2011, 19:30
It worked fine like that in the 90’s. It’s the way it should always be, I think.
Klon (@)
3rd November 2011, 20:38
Have to agree with @ajokay there. There is no need to have a work team and the way things currently are, the car producer Renault profits more from Red Bull ruling the F1 world than from their own works effort.
Joey-Poey (@joey-poey)
3rd November 2011, 21:53
@sumedh This sort of ridiculousness requires Clive James to narrate the 2012 season review.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
3rd November 2011, 23:39
Cosworth supplied Virgin and Hispania this year, but neither of them are known as Cosworth. So I don’t see why this is a big deal.
The Last Pope (@the-last-pope)
3rd November 2011, 20:19
So it will be Caterham Team Air Asia in GP2 and Air Asia Team Caterham in F1?
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
3rd November 2011, 20:50
@the-last-pope Looks that way.
Fixy (@)
3rd November 2011, 20:48
I suggest, to avoid confusion, we continue naming Lotus Lotus and Renault Renault until December 31st, 2011.
From January 1st, 2012 we can call Lotus Caterham and Renault Lotus.
Fixy (@)
3rd November 2011, 20:53
Obviously @prisoner-monkeys will refuse to use the name “Lotus” for the “Fernandes team” :P
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
3rd November 2011, 23:08
Why? They’ll now be known as Caterham. The Autosport makes it pretty clear that Renault will be the only team known as Lotus in 2012.
BasCB (@bascb)
4th November 2011, 7:40
Now I get the trick with the names @prisoner-monkeys! Just as these teams are now doing a merry-go-round you do the same, am I right? Nice idea then.
I think its rather a bad choice to pull in “Autosport” as the experts here, as they were the ones getting scolded by their readers for putting in an edition reffering to the Renault team as Lotus in a glossy filled with big Lotus ads (and getting offered drives in Lotus cars), putting their journalistic neutrality in serious doubt.
I would rather say, that ALL serious media are reporting the F1 commision agreed on the name chassis name changes to go ahead (Virging -> Marussia, Lotus -> Caterham and Renault -> Lotus).
Fernandes clearly stated, that his team will have Caterham in its name next year instead of Lotus. And the Renault badge will surely be replaced by a Lotus team name.
Fixy (@)
5th November 2011, 9:56
@prisoner-monkeys
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
5th November 2011, 10:27
@fixy
I was responding to this post:
And not this post:
When I said that.
Fixy (@)
5th November 2011, 10:56
@prisoner-monkeys you’ve always called Lotus the “Fernandes Team” or something similar, because you refused to identify them as the original Team Lotus (something I also do). I was saying we should call them Lotus until 2012, from then on we should call them Caterham, and I remembered you wouldn’t call them Lotus anyway :P
Steph (@)
3rd November 2011, 21:12
After all of that fuss…
PJ (@)
3rd November 2011, 21:31
So, will “new Lotus” be green?
BasCB (@bascb)
3rd November 2011, 22:46
Don’t expect they will, after succesfully poaching one livery from the real deal already, they should at least stick with that. And its shiny and glitzy, exactly how Bahar likes them!
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
4th November 2011, 0:25
I believe Tony Fernandes has said that they’ll keep the green design because of the connections to Caterham.
The entire point of this name change was to separate the two teams. Having just cleared the waters, I don’t think Renault will muddy them again by running a similar livery to Caterham.
I’d actually like to see them do something similar to this year’s DAMS design (which was similar to the R30, but cleaner): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:R_Grosjean_Monza_2011.jpg
BasCB (@bascb)
4th November 2011, 8:24
I agree with you, that the Renault team wants to build a brand and is likely to stick with a livery similar to what they have now.
Would be teriffic if they went for that yellow/black one, it looks really good.
wasiF1 (@wasif1)
4th November 2011, 2:43
So if that’s the case then why did Tony & his team gone to court & create all this drama,could have spend the money in a better place.
silencer (@silencer)
4th November 2011, 7:26
if I’m not wrong; it is Group Lotus who initiated the legal battle
Cyclops_PL (@cyclops_pl)
4th November 2011, 15:07
Because he wanted to gain as much as he could before losing the Lotus tag. He knew he couldn’t hold on to it, so he played the waiting game.
I don’t if you noticed, but Justice Smith told Fernandes during the July hearing (second Lotus vs. Lotus case) that had he known about purchase of Caterham and crossbranding with Team Lotus, he could have ruled against Fernandes entirely. That’s why it has been all resolved. Ethics of such conduct from Fernades are at least questionable.
Cyclops_PL (@cyclops_pl)
4th November 2011, 15:08
*I don’t know if you noticed
manatcna (@manatcna)
4th November 2011, 5:12
Williams to be re-branded KR Racing ? :)
PJ (@)
4th November 2011, 11:39
Toro Rosso to be rebranded as “Red Bull 2”? :D
sozavele (@formula-1)
4th November 2011, 22:05
Like Williams would drop out with a sensational name like that even though they are doing badly Red Bull 2 is an awful name.
UKFan (@)
5th November 2011, 1:20
I think Renault will be Lotus Renault like this year but Team Lotus will no longer exist
UKFan (@)
5th November 2011, 1:23
I think that was Renaults sponsors will they didnt want to have 2 lotuses teams, like it says in this arcticle Team lotus will be caterham
wasiF1 (@wasif1)
5th November 2011, 2:39
Given the fact that the team is still own by the same person Or I would say the same license will this name change will affect their F1 statistics? For example will Caterham & Marussia will have 38 race start for them before the start of 2012? or will they be 0?