Karthikeyan penalised for Vettel collision

2012 Malaysian Grand Prix

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Narain Karthikeyan has been penalised 20 seconds in the Malaysian Grand Prix.

The HRT driver was handed the penalty following contact between him and Sebastian Vettel during the race.

Karthikeyan’s penalty relegates him to last behind team mate Pedro de la Rosa.

Vettel, who suffered a puncture and brake damage in the collision, said: “[To] lose the race how I did is very frustrating. Some people need to look more where they are going.”

See the updated race classification.

2012 Malaysian Grand Prix

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    Keith Collantine
    Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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    161 comments on “Karthikeyan penalised for Vettel collision”

    1. I could have sworn Vettel moved back into the path of Karthikeyan… must find a replay.

      1. Yea , he deserved a talking to but least of all for this incident! New owners of F1 showing their clout? ;)

      2. My thoughts exactly. I’ve watched the replay a few times and IMO Vettel seemed to assume that Karthikeyan would have dropped back further than he did. Narain has made stupid moves and mistakes in the past but I don’t think this was one of them, Vettel’s own fault all the way to me.

      3. Agreed. Don’t think it’s a fair, and the BBC Forum – which was excellent today – just made you feel so much for him. Such a nice guy and his opening 10 laps should have made his day, instead he’s busy defending himself from some grief from Red Bull. A real shame.

      4. Dito, Both Vettel and Button at fault for hitting Narain. Thats how I see it anyway.

        1. Vettel is the idiot here. This is twice now. Last time it was against Webber in 2010 in Turkey. The same too early move as if he has no spatial awareness of his car dimensions.

          1. haha, a double world champion who has over the last few years made 1000’s of overtakes including backmarkers at 150 MPH in all kinds of conditions without incident and people claim he doesnt have spacial awareness…please see it for what it was, an isolated incident, how long ago was Turkey ?? (. By the way I am a JB and Lewis fan) An idiot or an exceptional race driver who made a mistake at 150 MPH by about 15 centimetres??

            1. His overtake in Australia shows he knows what he’s doing, and that one on Alonso in Monza lsat year. Although I do think it’s partially his fault…

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SYn6fAIRU4 found this footage, he was obviously quite annoyed by it:L

        2. In both case, the drivers were assuming they have all the place and the HRT will just move away (in Button’s case the HRT was “defending” even if it shouldn’t happen as Narain know they are not playing in the same league) … In Vettel’s case it was under blue flag but still Vettel is pretty quick to go back to his racing line and Narain still leave plenty of place by F1 standard …

          Anyway that’s a bit annoying to see that HRT involve with two top drivers like this …

          1. “(in Button’s case the HRT was “defending” even if it shouldn’t happen as Narain know they are not playing in the same league)”

            Defendig is defending. Doesn’t matter if the car is 0.1 sec a lap slower, or 10 sec a lap. TV-time is important. Fighting is important.

          2. “defending” even if it shouldn’t happen

            That is the single most offensive thing you can say to me about this sport.

        3. yes but button was gentleman and he admits his fault ..even though it cost him his race .Vettel is bit arrogant

          1. Vettel is the new Schumi, they must all be trained at the same school of smugness and arrogance. Button will always own up to his mistakes which is what makes him so likeable. The age of ‘Gentlemen’ drivers isn’t quite dead yet.

            1. And narain is the new cucumber, why would Vettel or Schumi arrogant?? Vettel probably in the hit of the moment but he speak his mind that character just like Montoya or Kimi Raikkonen F1 need that rather than drivers hiding behind i think most drivers probably speak this kind of thing behind the camera and pretending to be “gentleman” on camera.

      5. NK has been dangerously unaware of passing cars all season but in this case he gave Vettel room and it was Vettel who moved across before his car was completely past NK, maybe the penalty was a kind of reverse “lifetime achievement” award similar to those meted out to Hami a couple of years ago.

      6. yes me too! both reacted stangely

      7. Indeed. Karthikeyan really did not have anywhere to go, he was right at the side of the track, inches from the slippery kerbing. Vettel ran over his front wing and should be looking at himself there, not blame Narain.

        Really a case of the stewards bowing to the powerfull in my view.

        1. Mallesh Magdum
          26th March 2012, 10:12


        2. I utterly disagree.


          Also Narain already admitted it was his fault.

          1. I agree with Dennis, NK clearly moves over as Vettel follows the racing line from his line through the corner. I’m not defending Vettel, I just think the stewards were right, although JB admitted he was wrong in his collision with NK I think NK could have given him more room, his car control in the wet isnt great .

    2. replay… i think it’s narain’s fault.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r–n3OyW7ds

      1. Me too, from the rear shot view you can clearly see the distance between Karthikeyan’s left rear wheel and the curbs increase before they come together.

        I thought it was Vettel’s own fault at first but now I see why Vettel was ‘unhappy’ with Karthikeyan.

        Nevertheless, the penalty is pointless. But then, any other penalty would be pointless too…

        1. *edit*

          I think Karthikeyan was trying to get a slip stream and tried to get behind Vettel as soon as possible.

          A little too soon unfortunately.

          Ooh well, that’s racing.

      2. NK admitted that he moved back towards right because he got on the curbs and white line which were quite slippery and while getting back, he misjudged and stabbed Vettel’s tire and pride.

        1. Mistakes happen, and the conditions were difficult.

          I’m quite happy to say it was at least mostly Narian’s fault, but he shouldn’t have gotten a penalty.

          1. NK had lots of trouble with slick tyres on wet surface. So under these tricky conditions, this can happen. Vettel is upset (reminds me a bit of Hamilton 2011). But Vettel could prevend this..

            And what about Fuji 2008??? Webber can say a word about that!

      3. After seeing that replay I’ve completely changed my mind! Entirely Karthikeyan’s fault in my opinion.

        1. To me it just looks like Vettel didn’t take account of where NK was going at all. NK was already on that line when Vettel swept past, and it’s the line for the next corner. There is plenty of space on the track he didn’t have to squeeze him as much as he did. It’s pretty clumsy from both of them really, but for me definitely Vette’s fault. I can only assume that NK’s statement has counted against him here.

          1. Sorry but what line are you referring to?
            If you’re talking about the racing line it is anywhere but on the extreme left of the track since the upcoming corner is the left-handed T9 hairpin.
            Vettel could’ve easily stayed in the middle and slowly edged over to the right to line up the entry for that. He was so ragged at the entry of the preceding double-right that he didn’t need to use the full road there (like he proved by moving to the right to avoid the HRT in the first place, as the speed was low enough to add more steering lock)
            After all that. there was no point squeezing past immediately and assuming that Karthikeyan would hit the brakes and run off the circuit.

            1. Initially NK moved to the far left to let SV pass. As SV went by NK moved to the right because he had hit the curbs. There is no way SV could have assumed that NK would make that move. Yes SV COULD have avoided that accident, but its just like saying you could have avoided an accident, where someone runs into your car because he ignored a red traffic light and you didnt brake at your green one.

            2. I was referring to the slightly rightward line NK was on when they made contact.

      4. From this replay, especially from front, it’s karthikeyan that moved away from the curb and pierced vettel’s tire.
        Yes, Vettel could have left him even more room and maybe this won’t happen but I don’t think he had to do so, from what I see, that’s certainly enough.
        But yea, the penalty is just too harsh.

      5. da ***?! This replay clearly shows it’s Narain that moves over in to Vettel’s car! what an idiot!

        1. Mallesh Magdum
          26th March 2012, 10:15

          @rianata read Karthikeyan’s post race quotes and u will know why he moved back

      6. Agree, it’s Narain the cucumber fault

    3. I have two problems here:
      1) Why give a time penalty to someone who finished well out of the points. I doubt Karthikeyan was complaining when he heard the news. It won’t affect HRT in the constructors, so I can’t see how this penalty hurt Karthikeyan or the team.

      2) The collision I believe was Vettel’s fault. From what I saw, he cut across into Karthikeyan as if he wasn’t there. I really don’t know what Karthikeyan could have done to avoid the collision, it was all on Vettel for me.

      1. Why give a time penalty to someone who finished well out of the points.

        Non-points places count – that’s why Massa’s behind the Marussias in the drivers’ standings.

        1. But in the past, drivers have been given grid penalties for the following races in the past, seemingly because they finished out of the points. Schumacher was given a 10 place grid penalty for Spa in 2010. I always thought that because he was out of the points, they gave him the grid drop because a time penalty would have done little to penalise him. Either that, or I’ve missed something in the rule book.

          1. @slr you can also argue that giving a grid penalty to someone in a HRT is even more pointless the time penalty.

            1. This. As long as there aren’t any problems for other drivers, I can’t see NK qualifying higher than 23rd.

            2. Anyone have any idea what happens to grid penalties if you don’t make 107%?

            3. DVC – Interesting question. The sporting regulations describe the penalty as:

              A drop of any number of grid positions at the driver’s next Event.

              That suggests to me that the penalty could only apply at the next event a driver enters, and if they fail to beat the 107% time it will not apply. I’m pretty sure it’s not been tested before!

          2. @slr I think it depends on the seriousness of the infringement – the Schumacher example you give was one of the worst pieces of driving we’ve seen recently.

            But it would be good to know why the stewards choose which of the various penalties available to them under article 16. As always, we don’t get as much information about this sort of thing as we should.

      2. Definitely the stewards need to give a penalty. There was contact, one driver was at fault. As it pertains to NK, it’s really not much of penalty, though I think his pride is clearly hurt.

        Where making this decision is important is for the next race where we have a situation like Lewis and Massa in Singapore. Lewis got a penalty for the same type of infraction–turning into the other driver and having his front wing puncture the tire of the car in front. It’s about consistency, and the last way you get consistency is to say “Well, the penalty is too harsh” or “It has no practical effect on the driver so it’s not a penalty” etc.

        Either there is a penalty for that type of incident or not. Right now there is. It shouldn’t matter if you’re a back marker, a world champion, coming in dead last or about to win the race.

    4. Don’t remember Kobayashi getting penalised for Hamilton moving back into him last year at Spa (nor do I think he should have been). This was the exact same situation, Vettel just decided to move back onto the racing line way too early. He was at fault, not Karthikeyan. Really stupid penalty.

      1. Totally agree with you there.

      2. It doesn’t bode well for Red Bull’s image. They’re fast becoming one of my least favourite teams with all of the whinging — and I think Mr. Marko and Christian Horner may have been in the stewards’ office as soon as they saw the incident. I just hope this decision hasn’t been made to please RBR when Karthikeyan did nothing wrong. Vettel assumed Narain could make his car disappear…

        1. You mean Vettel assumed Karthikeyan wouldn’t steer into him.

          1. Karthikeyan admitted that he came back onto the track as he was on dry tyres and was getting wheel-spin on the white line. Backmarkers need to let leaders through — not spin off or crash. Vettel made the mistake of pulling across in front too early. He shouldn’t have moved until he was clear.

            1. The problem is that it was Karthikeyan’s own fault that he forgot where the track where and left too much space.
              Had he been driving on the track Vettel would have known how much space he would have and nothing would happen.
              How should Vettel have known that Karthikeyan would suddenly cut across and destroy his rear tyre?
              As I see it Karthikeyan had two options; Hit another driver, or slow down and rejoin behind but loosing a little time.
              He made the mistake in the first place, I can’t see how Vettel should pay for that.

            2. Or, but I’m just spit balling here, Karthikeyan could have gone off the power…

      3. Well, first of all Kobayashi wasn’t lapped. He was fighting for position with Hamilton.
        Secondary, the replays show that Karthikeyan moved slightly to the right. Narain’s fault, I don’t understand why everyone keeps saying otherwise.

      4. great spot there, while I don’t think Vettel was to blame for the incident it does seem harsh on Karthikeyan especially as Koba was not punished. More to the point, Hamilton was the one stigmatized for that incident. Amazing hypocrisy in the world of F1 in that sense.

      5. +840.734.895,02

    5. Right well the replay says it all, how is this Karthikeyans fault?

      1. How isn’t it, you can clearly see him moving to the right away from the curbs. The argument that he had nowhere else to go clearly doesn’t hold up.

      2. I think you may need new glasses if you do not see Karthikeyan moving in on Vettel @beneverard

        1. Well I did have to watch the braille version.

    6. no it was not Seb’s fault. Karthikeyan looked like he moved to go directly behind Vettel and misjudged the Redbull not fully ahead. but yea very dumb penalty, it doesnt send a message becuz Karthikeyan was no where close to being in the points.

    7. finally !
      been waiting for this since Canada last year!

    8. Red Bull as a team loved to gloat when they won so it’s hardly surprising they’d be sore losers. Webber and Vettel seem to take it their stride but the team in general don’t. They have the smell of Benetton about them, they won 2 titles with a German driver and soon left the sport once they couldn’t win anymore. I wouldn’t expect Red Bull to be a long term F1 team personally.

      1. Even if its kartekyan fault and no matter how slow he is but being called an “idiot” by vettel just shows the desperation of RBR .They lost the qualifying advantage and lacking in race pace and knew they could do nothing about it as other teams have caught up ,whether its merc super F duct of vettel accident,the RBR boys just keep whining about every thing

    9. Karthikeyan was awfully in the way today… yes he may have not always been at fault BUT he had been WAY TOO slow after the re-start. ..kinda reminds me of the Kovi / Webber situation… he came out extremely lucky at the beginning ending up at P10 but afterwards you could literally see Button pushing him out of the way,,, the speed dif. was remarkable… sure Button couldn´t turn in and crashed into him but still it makes me wonder…. would HRT have made the 107% cut in a wet Qualy, too? NEver in dear life….

    10. astonished (@)
      25th March 2012, 18:53

      Don’t know if the penalty is deserved or not, but Vettel

      “[To] lose the race how I did is very frustrating. Some people need to look more where they are going.”

      is a clear reflection of his own, internally built frustration. He was well off the points already.
      It’s easier to keep calm when you win…

      1. I thought he was running in 4th at that time ahead of Raikkonen and Webber. May not be winning the race per se, but definitely in the points

        1. He “lost” to Webber.

          1. Before the crash he was ahead of Webber and was catching Hamilton (gap was down to 3 or 2 seconds). It was bad move by him, no matter who’s fault it was, and even stupider comment after the race, regarding “idiots on the roads”.

    11. I thought Vettel was at fault (I said so in the forum too), but after watching the replay on the telly I got to say, it was Karthikeyan’s fault too. Sure, Vettel didn’t have to keep left after overtaking him, but he didn’t move back to the racing line as I initially thought, Karthikeyan just turned right.

      As he was behind, he should’ve backed out a bit and let the man go. Not ideal situation, but he’s the one behind so…

    12. Even if it’s Narain’s fault, which is not that obvious for me, the penalty is just stupid. At least it doesn’t change much in the result. Maybe the judges should just simply start penalizing every contact between drivers? That would be easier to comprehend.

      1. It is silly, but Narain lost nothing in the end and Vettel lost potential points.

    13. Karthekeyan deserves SOMETHING for doing little but blocking other cars and generally getting in the way this season. Let’s hope he gets more meaningful penalties in future.

    14. Bit odd how he didn’t receive something for knocking Jenson off.

      1. Jenson ran into the back of him, which Jenson has admitted to… Karthikeyan wasn’t at fault for that.

      2. They were fighting for track position at that time so Karthikeyan had no obligation to move out of the way, also Karthikeyan was in front of Button when it happened, in this case he was behind.
        The only similarities between the two incidents is the race it happened in and one of the drivers.

        1. and if anyone remembers singapore, if button had given narain a puncture then he would have been given a penalty (Hamilton v Massa)

          i think we are all missing the real issue here (something mr brundle did mention) the tire sidewall is incredibly fragile. The slightest defect or bump from another driver and the tire fails, sometimes totally out of the blue. Remember Vettel at abu dhabi 2011. Just image if that had happened at 130R in japan.

          I think this is a serious safety issue that needs to be looked at by the FIA before something horrible happens.

          1. Agree. They are control tyres, there is no reason why the side-wall can’t be made stronger.

          2. True and a very good point. Would be good to see something done about that

        2. Spot on, Mads.

        3. Mads, they weren’t, Vettel was running ahead and lapping, there was a blue flag

    15. Two races in a row in 2012, no Redbull on pole, no Redbull win, no Horner shaking leg in anticipation.
      Best of all, no finger blocking my screen.
      If Karthikeyan has to get a penalty, it is a worthy sacrifice, guilty or not.

      1. LOL!! Comment of Day?

      2. Mclaren fan? And it’s only been a week, don’t jump to conclusions just yet…they have 3 weeks to find a bit more downforce and to sort out the balance…they’ll get a win

    16. Good, the car isn’t fast enough or worthy to even be on the starting grid at the moment.

      1. They qualified within 107%, so obviously it is fast enough.

        1. They qualified within 107%, so obviously it is fast enough.

          This I completely agree with.

        2. Which is why I preferred the 105% rule.

          I’ve got nothing against Karthikeyan or the HRT team but it’s just awful seeing cars that slow competing in F1.

          The only time we see the backmarkers on screen is when they are ignoring blue flags, retiring or crashing.
          Or, in this case, destroying someone else’s race.

      2. @charles

        Good, the car isn’t fast enough or worthy to even be on the starting grid at the moment.

        How do you figure that buddy??? BOTH HRT passed the 107% requirement by FIA to be part of the grid so they have as much right as any other team to be there.
        You have to understand that Vettel is a “cocky” bloke… he likes to get “messages” across, and by him keeping left immeadiatley after passing NK, is like saying, “move over slow-poke”… Maybe that´ll teach him to stop with the attitude! I guess he doesn´t like having to work his way up the grid! It´s easy to just cruise when you get on pole every time with a far superior car I guess… Must suck for him now but he should just man up!

        1. @Jack
          Did we watch the same thing? I didn’t see Vettel move across after passing Karthikeyan at all. He held his line perfectly.

          1. @mads, on the coverage I saw, Vettel clearly moved left both in the first look and in the close-up replay, but maybe another camera angle showed it differently.

    17. Vettel’s quote is slightly more than in the article. He also said:

      It’s like on the normal roads, there are a few idiots driving around and, yeah, it seems that there is one driving here

      Just like in Turkey 2010, he is taking zero responsibility for anything that happens to him. At the worst, this was a racing incident. Both Vettel and Karthikeyan could have left more room for each other, as it happens, they didn’t. But Vettel is just throwing his weight around. The fact that he stuck his middle finger up at Karthikeyan twice, as well as the quotes post race, makes him out to be an arrogant, immature little boy. Much like Hamilton in 2009 actually, although I doubt anyone will criticise him as much as they did (and still do) Hamilton.

      1. I’ve used the quote he gave to his team – he may have given similar but different quotes to other people.

        1. @keithcollantine – Ahhh, I see. Mine was from the BBC.

      2. It’s like on the normal roads, there are a few idiots driving around and, yeah, it seems that there is one driving here

        Wow! What a class act!!! The thing is… he really shouldn´t feel that arrogant because yes, he might have won the wdc twice BUT, it is now obvious, he has a hard time working his way up the field and he has a hard time matching Webber´s true perormance.
        I guess it must sting bad for him knowing now that everybody is opening their eyes and seeing that last year, the true “champ” was “kinky Kylie”…
        Somebody should tell him that other teams don´t have to move over when they see him coming from behind like JEV in Australia! Arrogant kid!

        1. “it is now obvious, he has a hard time working his way up the field and he has a hard time matching Webber´s true perormance.”

          Yes, it’s very obvious. From 6th to 2nd at Australia and from 5th to 4th at Malaysia…. And both times he was ahead of Webber. So far for Webber’s “true performance”. LOL.
          what was it you said? True talent always rises to the top? You must feel pretty stupid having said that before the Australian GP.

          “Somebody should tell him that other teams don´t have to move over when they see him coming from behind like JEV in Australia!”

          And I guess Rosberg just moved over too, right?

          But hey, I know why you post. I noticed you spamming your nonsense after the Australian Qualifying but also noticed a complete lack of your posts after the Australian GP. Seems to me like you will only post when Vettel is having ‘trouble’. You’re not an F1 fan. You’re a childish hater.

    18. It’s all on Vettel imho and why a penalty? There are 2 many penalties atm in F1.

    19. Looked like a racing incident and don’t see why either driver should receive flak for it. Penalty had no meaning for both Vettel and Karthikeyan. Vettel’s race was blown by the puncture and Karthikeyan would not have finished higher. A throwback to the Massa-Hamilton incidents last year where both drivers were losers in the end. The incident should NOT take away from the great strategy by HRT and driving by NK that allowed them to get up to 10th. Sure they would not have lasted long there maybe 1- 2 laps but what was shown was intangible, the desire to compete and show that they belong. At the same time Vettel’s race was also solid and sure every driver has a right to be angry if he feels an accident was not his fault.

    20. Typical how his incidents cost Button a likely podium (and obviously points), Vettel some probable points and Karthikeyan absolutely nothing, apart from finishing 23rd instead of 22nd. Big Deal.

      1. Button cost himelf points, even he admited that! Don’t know how you could possibly blame NK for the Button crash, that was for positio too, and Button hit him from behind after failing to break early enough… You can see my view on the Vettel incident below.

    21. To be honest, it’s a moot point. Both of them caused the accident and the penalty makes no difference to anything.

      Had NK not moved behind Vettel, Vettel would not have hit him, I think we can all agree on this much. However, had Vettel not cut in front of NK so eagerly then again, the incident would not have happened. The combination of both driving without thinking very clearly led to the crash. I don’t know really where to stand on the penalty. At the end of the day it was a blue flag situation, there is a duty to move out the way; but when you factor in Vettel’s contribution to the cause of the accident the application of a penalty seems harsh.

      Like you all say, why give a penalty that makes no difference? It’s simple, it’s a compromise. It doesn’t affect HRT’s constructors position really, few cars retired from this race meaning there is plenty of opportunity to score higher positions at a later race. And the application of a penalty also appeases those at Red Bull Racing. Now the stewards can say, ‘we gave a penalty, what more do you want?’

      Thoughts anyone?

      1. I share your opinion that both drivers should take some of the blame. As such, I don’t agree with any outcome where fault is allocated to one party alone. Even if the penalty is toothless.

    22. Never a penalty, both to blame partially, just a silly way to lose 12 points which would’ve been useful. Never mind, chins up and 18 more races to go

    23. At first I thought it was Vettel’s fault, having seen that reply it looks more 50/50, but a penalty for Narain seems a bit harsh – ultimately, in my view, regardless of where Narain was, Vettel moved over too early.

      I guess it’s easy to penalise a backmarker for a collision like this though, on the grounds that they should have done more to get out of the way.

    24. Watched the collision again and I think Vettel only has himself to blame. He saw Karthikeyan had run wide, so he should have taken everything a bit more cautious.

      1. Totally agree. Vettel brought that one on himself. It is not only the car being passed that is obliged to leave room enough for the other car is it?

        Frankly, Vettels comments only cements my view of him as a spoiled little brat.

        1. I think he did leave enough room, but Narain had some wheelspin and had to correct the car, that’s what he says at least. Vettel didn’t do anything wrong, but it wouldn’t have happened had he been more careful.

          1. So every time a faster car laps a slower one the faster car has to be ready for the slower car messing it up and steering into the back of the faster car?

            That doesn’t make sense. Karthikeyan should have gone off the power the moment he felt the car lose grip. Not throw it back onto the track.

            I don’t see how Vettel could have possibly anticipated Karthikeyan would be going too wide and would almost lose the car.

            1. @f1fannl No, not every time.

              Karthikeyan went off the track in that corner and was returning. Also, it was wet. Therefore it was not the usual ‘lapping a backmarker’. Vettel wasn’t at fault, but he could’ve seen the danger and avoided it.

              Similar to Singapore last year, when he was in the pits. It was Lotus’ mistake to let Kovalainen out in the path of Vettel, but Vettel was clever enough to see it coming and backed off.

            2. That’s not the same. Vettel was coming towards the Lotus pitbox there. Whatever was happening happened in his field of vision. You can’t expect Vettel to keep an eye on every back marker he passes. Even when it’s wet.

              It’s the responsibility of the back marker to get out of the way and let the faster car through safely. If Vettel had moved across he would have had some blame. He didn’t, case closed, Karthikeyan’s fault.

            3. Vettel saw him returning on the track. It was Narain’s fault, but Vettel could have easily thought better of it and avoided it and finished the race in 4th or 3rd.

    25. To say I’m bemused is an understatement. Sure, Karthikeyan didn’t back off, but from his view Vettel was ahead so why bother. Vettel just carelessly moved back at him. I’ll just say this: if it had been the other way round, with Karthikeyan taking out Vettel, there would be no penalty.

      All told, though, Karthikeyan was one of the day’s unsung heroes. He ran 4th briefly, and even if that was through pit strategy, he was still there. He’s always been good in the wet, and this was more evidence of that. Good job overall from a driver fir whom I have an ever increasing amount of respect.

      1. What I meant to say was “with Vettel taking out Karthikeyan”. It’s been a long day.

      2. “Sure, Karthikeyan didn’t back off, but from his view Vettel was ahead so why bother.”

        Why bother? Were they racing each other? No. karthikeyan could have easily gone off the power when he felt the car lost grip on the curb. In stead he throws it back on the track.

        1. Mallesh Magdum
          26th March 2012, 10:33

          @F1fanNL The rule is “Backmarkers must get off the racing line” not “get off power”….Vettel squeezed Karthikeyan way too much….Hope Vettel learns to behave off-track

        2. if you come off the power when the car loses grip you spin, so nk would have prob taken him out in a big way. vettel just needed to be a bit more wise does not matter if for position or blue flag you make sure your far away from people in damp/wet conditions.

          1. This is absolute grade A cow poo poo. When you hit the brakes with a wheel or two on a slippery surface you spin, not by letting go of the throttle. If that were the case we would see them spinning round every corner or so…

            Karthikeyan made the mistake of keeping the power on and moving to the right. If he had simply lifted his right foot he would have slotted in behind Vettel.

      3. You must be kidding saying that NK is good on Wet conditions , right?
        He was 3-4 sec/lap slower then De La Rosa after the restart, he was about 8 seconds slower then the front runners. Even in the dry his times were comparable with those in Gp2..
        He was by far the slowest driver on track. How do all these make him a rain-master?

    26. Whoever’s fault it was, I’m hugely disappointed to see Sebastian make an obscene gesture twice on camera – he should be punished for unsportsmanlike conduct/bringing the sport into disrepute.

      1. I agree, It was very disappointing behaviour even if it was Narain’s fault.

      2. +1

        This is twice now. Last time it was against Webber in 2010 in Turkey. The same too early move as if he has no spatial awareness of his car dimensions.

      3. Tom Haxley (@)
        26th March 2012, 8:11

        +1 COTD to be honest.

        Even the football this would have been punished by a ban.

    27. The incident itself wasn’t as bad as Vettel’s words afterwards. Being involved in an incident (I’m refusing to use the word victim, because I find it to be at no one’s fault at best) is one thing, calling the other party involved an idiot (or gurke – cucumber in his native German) is other. And that’s it when it comes to Vettel’s sportsmanship and attitude of a true champion. Go to Button’s reaction to collision with Karthikeyan for further reference.

      When I was talking about the current situation of Vettel not having superior car will show his true value I was referring only to his racing results. Alonso proved today how a champion in a bad car should drive. However, the situation also tests Vettel’s character. After two races, he seems to be failing on both fronts.

      1. Hmmm,… Almost like how Alonso ‘dealt’ with his trouble in 2007.

        Yes, poor form from Vettel. Totally unlike other champions….

        Maybe it’s because he’s black.

      2. Tom Haxley (@)
        26th March 2012, 8:16

        @cyclops_pl @f1fannl

        I think his season my be like Alonsos 07 and to some degree hamiltons 11.
        Coming off the back of last season where he clearly a mile ahead of everyone Vettel is always going to struggle to aclimatise to the fact that he is not top dog now and that he’s mixing it up with the others.

        Im sure some GP driver said something like “A true winner should always be a sore loser”. If losing doesnt hurt, then you shouldnt be there (yes you can be a gentleman about it also but different strokes for different folks I guess).

        I think Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel think they are the best and get truely upset when they get beaten

    28. Karthikeyan isn’t good enough or professional enough to be in F1. These are not the first times he has just gotten in the way of cars and drivers actually trying to race. I remember a few incidences where he was under Blue Flag lost in his own little world and took forever to let the lead car lap him.

      1. @Selbbin
        Dude, you are way out of line man! NK complied with the 107% rule so he is obviously good enough to be there!
        I guess you must just be a bit bitter because you might think he ruined JB´s race…. It was the other way around! JB messed up his own race… NK was in fourth and fighting for position…
        If you want to question his professionality, then JB being a “professional” driver should have known that with a far superior McLaren, there was no need to enter the corner the way he did… He was going to have DRS and the HRT has no KERS, so who´s fault is it buddy???
        I guess in the end… you´re just bitter…

        1. I completely agree that Button’s crash was his own fault. That made it even more frustrating. But I am talking about Karthikeyan’s history in the sport so far, and his career so far, and not just this one race.

    29. From what i saw it was not Vettels fault. Unlike the incident in Istanbul, I could see no incriminating steering input, and he hadnt understeered into Kathikeyan’s front wing, so I do thing the blame is at NK’s door. I dont even think his reaction in the cockpit immdiently after was unduly bad. It was the statement given to the press, well after the incident and after the race ended which blackened Vettels image.
      He had enough time to calm down and at least put on a dimplomatic facade – but like an idiot, he decided to throw around a stupid weak insult. It was like Marko’s reaction at Istanbul. He should have known better – he wasnt in the tense environment of the cockpit, had more angles to view the Vettel-Webber incident and yet still inexplicibley threw Webber – a team member – under the bus. It was that – and not Vettel inferring Webber was carzy or storming into the motor home that disgusted me. Hed just lost a possible race vistory, and the disspointment was still raw. We can all understand that.
      I want to see more emotion from the drivers. Its most pure to see the immediete ecstasy of victory, despodency, dissapoint an anger etc. Coming out well after the event and when emotions should have damped down and you should be more circumspect, and then acting like a child, is not we want to see. Thats not the drivers being more human. Thats unprofessional, and daresay unmanly, for the want of a better word.

      1. You “want to see more emotion from the drivers” but you also think Vettel should have put on a “diplomatic facade”?

        You want the moon on a stick!

    30. Narain’s fault, but the disgusting way Vettel conducted himself afterwards is far worse. I thought he’d really matured as a person in 2011 – it looks like he’s only a nice guy when he’s winning.

    31. And again we see, as often happens, an ego damaged by a silly mistake and major finger pointing. How Johnny and the other stewards reached their decision is beyond me. I watched the race and immediately commented that Vettel had got it wrong. He drove right over the HRT front wing. At those speeds the overtaking driver, the more experienced driver, the 2x world champ, the “best ” in the world, should have been more aware and less aggressive. In my opinion Vettel is the idiot, not for the mistake, but for trying to push it off as someone else’s fault, again. Spoilt Brat springs to mind, again.

    32. A touch of racism creeping in there, not justified. I think people will always take the side of the underdog when the bullying tactics of Ex-world champions is brought to question. Looking back, I agree, Hamilton was a nasty driver last year, and the year before, and before that too. Schumacher has many times been guilty of “sidewalling” slower cars, Vettel hasn’t needed to get nasty for 2 years leading from the front, but I think this year we will see a different side of him. Alonso at times has been involved in some fraccas, and always the slower, less experienced driver is criticised. Top level drivers easily forget that at one time they were struggling at the back and holding up the top ten.

      1. @abuello-paul

        A touch of racism creeping in there


        1. It appears the remark, which had tones of anti Vettel remarks due to him being German, and comparing Hamiltons quoted outburst, was removed.

      2. Andy M (@immaturestudent)
        26th March 2012, 10:18

        Hamilton is an aggressive driver, not a nasty driver.

        As for the HRT, forget the 107% rule. They are too slow in the corners and should not be out there racing. Their lap times were 7 seconds+ slower at some points which is too dangerous. The experiment for the newer teams seems to have failed in HRT’s case… and Marussia are not a lot better.

        1. @immaturestudent

          forget the 107% rule. They are too slow in the corners and should not be out there racing. Their lap times were 7 seconds+ slower at some points which is too dangerous.

          First of all, being seven seconds off the pace in a race where the fastest lap was 1’40.7 is as near as makes no difference 107%.

          Why, in your view, is seven seconds automatically “dangerous”? What about six seconds? 6.5s? 6.9s?

          As I always say: at Le Mans they race on a much narrower track in the dark with cars up to 29% slower than the pole sitter. And some of the drivers being lapped are amateurs.

          If they can cope with that, F1 drivers can cope with far worse than a 7% difference.

          1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/107%25_rule#List_of_107.25_rule_violations
            Notable inclusions:
            ’99 french, Damon Hill
            ’01 Belgian, Alonso
            several Jordan cars were excluded over the years. In those days the rule was exercised almost every race, not once or twice a season.

    33. Anyone remembered 2005 Turkish GP? Karthikeyan made a same mistake to Montoya on 55th lap. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lne2Vd8LHyk 7:16

    34. penalised 20 seconds?? well thats stuffed his race…

      Vettel allegedly called him a cucumber, i dont understand. Its all apples and oranges for me

    35. Bad luck for Vettel He was actually catching Hamilton before his coming together. I have recorded the race and it is shown in the split times shown on the TV

    36. When passing back markers, more care should be taken by the driver in the quicker car. In this case, both were in the wrong – both were ultimately penalised – poetic justice for poor driving.

    37. no matter whose faul was it I was laughing so hard about the cucumber comment :D I lvoe how F1 is entertainig even outside the track :D

    38. no matter whose faul was it I was laughing so hard about the cucumber comment :D I love how F1 is entertaining even outside the track :D

    39. Well for me it rather looked, that both of the drivers were not aware what might happen. First of all Khartikeyan, knowing that his HRT is much slower than the RedBull, expected Vettel to be much quicker. On the other hand Vettel expect himself to be much faster and didn’t expect Khartikeyan being so close…..so for me it looks like an a usual racing incident…..not worth of any penalty for either driver….and I think Vettel should reconsider what kind of stupid mistakes he did himself in the past (Webber, when Vettel was drivig TorroRosso; Istanbul and Button in Spa)….it proves that, really, he’s a nice mature guy, when he’s winning and has a dominat car….otherwise a small boy from Heppenheim, who’s in his adolescense…..

    40. PS: we still saw the Vettel-Finger………but the middle one (yeah!)

    41. After watching the replays, I think both were at fault. Vettel does get back a bit early, but Narain seems to move towards Vettel a bit – I wonder if FIA releases more images? They did promise that, dind’t they?
      If nothing happened, there shouldn’t be no penalty, but since Vettel got that puncture, Narain had to get some punishment as well, in my opinion.

    42. I think Vettel needs to remember Fuji 2007, Turkey 2010 and Spa 2010. Three times he was the ‘idiot’ driver where he needlessly collided with other drivers ruining their races. Just because he’s won 2 World Championships it doesn’t automatically make him right. I still see it as Vettel’s fault as he pulled across the front of the HRT without making sure he had fully passed him, exactly the same as Hamilton and Kobayashi at Spa last year. Hamilton accepted that was his fault therefore Vettel should be humble and accept responsibility for this collision. Just like the Vettel of old throwing his toys out of the pram just because things aren’t going his way

    43. Surely Vettel should be sanctioned for unsporting behaviour. Surely showing an obscene gesture (giving the middle finger) to another driver would be deemed as unsportsmanlike.

    44. My feelings about the whole incident are the definition of ambivalence right now.

      Firstly, he did destroy Button’s race though clearly unintentionally. I was bursting with anger when i saw the front wing endplate falling of Jenson’s car but his own admition of fault was something very impressive to me.

      Secondly, he did move over to Vettel’s side slashing his tyre having two car lenghts of space on the track while being lapped. None of his excuses are applicable, he had more than enough space, he had to let Vettel through and slammed into his tyre with full throttle.

      I must be honest – i was hoping to see the end of Vettel’s stream of uninterrupted success, but not by a mobile crash magnet in shape of the least promising and least talented pay driver on the F1 grid in a long time. His only ever F1 points came as a result of USA 2005 GP farce which make his embarrassing F1 carreer look even worse. It pains me to see him on the track and waste a spot that could otherwise be filled by a promising young rookie. It casts a very dim shadow on HRT’s image that they allow to spoil F1’s magnificence with such a propostrous driver.

    45. Yeah, I’ll go with the majority here and say that Vettel was at fault there. He should have made an allowance for Karthikeyan being behind him, it’s not like they were racing for position where he had to really defend the line.

      Silly mistake and he will no doubt be frustrated. Nothing more than that really.

      1. @andrewtanner Have you watched the replays? I initially thought it was vettels fault too, but after watching them a couple of times I changed my mind.

    46. wow, this incident seems to be a real Rorschach’s Test on Vettel, even with the footage (I’m sure it would have been if it was Hamilton instead of Vettel).

      Karthikeyan admitted to moving into Vettel because he was getting wheel spin on the white line. Having missed the incident during the race, and reading the comments here before checking it out, I thought for sure it was going to be a real 50/50 type of thing. But it really wasn’t. Vettel’s line through the corner, having seen NK in front of him, left NK plenty of space, and it’s very clear NK moves sharply (for an F1 car) to the right when he thought Vettel had cleared. It may be that Narain had wheel spin on the white line and had to correct or lose the car, but that is still an error on NK’s part–with slicks and wet lines, the driver needs to account for that and stay off them.

      As for the penalty, the 20 sec is clearly irrelevant for the HRT, but what is important is that the stewards look at that footage and assign responsibility based on their interpretations of the rules. Last year in Singapore, Lewis tried to cut on the inside of Massa (I forget which turn) and his wing clipped Massa. Lewis was penalized for that. It seems pretty consistent that a proactive move from the driver behind that results in puncturing the tire of the car in front is held responsible.

      What I really find interesting are the comments about what Vettel is thinking towards NK as he passes him (stuff like “I’ll show him” or “out of my way” kind of things). I really don’t think Vettel is thinking any of those things at all. He’s thinking about closing the gap to Hamilton and getting past him.

      As someone mentioned above, the other criticism of Vettel here, about not having spatial awareness seems way off the mark–if there’s one thing Vettel and the rest of the top of the grid has done extraordinarily well is pass back markers. This is something we rarely see on the feed, but these guys do it all the time every race and any get together is incredibly rare.

      1. DerangedStoat
        27th March 2012, 4:46

        I think the main reason behind the difference in opinions is due to a difference in footage people have seen.

        Watching the broadcast live, the incident was shown from a camera behind the cars as they came out of the turn. Watching this, I was damn sure it was Vettel that cut accross Karthikeyen.

        Thus I was very surprised to hear the ruling and sought out further footage.
        And voila, there’s footage which wasn’t aired at the time, of the incident from a wider front view. It’s this footage which makes it clear that it was Karthikeyan at fault (appeared to dive in behind Vettel for the slipstream).
        So I think it’s the people who haven’t seen this footage that are arguing that Vettel should be held at fault.

    47. A close one to call, but NK did move away from the kerb to the right and hit Vettel. IMO NK was at fault for the incident.
      Vettel on the other hand should learn from this. He had the opportunity to stay to the right further down the straight, and had he done so nothing would have happened.

    48. This incident seemed to have very similar parallels with his overtake of Webber where he cut in too soon (as if to bully/prove a point) and caused an avoidable accident. His utter rudeness in the post-race interview, lack of respect for a fellow driver and ultimately his (and his team’s) lack of taking even some of the blame his sad to see.
      Perhaps next time he’ll wait that extra second before cutting in front of someone or learn how to drive.

    49. Narain Karthikeyan is stupid and shouldn’t be driving F1. That simple.

    50. Sad to see words used for fellow drivers by two times world champion..seems that there are more cucumber in Vettel’s head than a sound wit (as shown by Button) ..give me feeling that bull is “********” around when there is no more winning!

    51. I thought the penalty was harsh on Karthikeyan. To me it was a racing incident and if either of the two should have more blame it would be Vettel as he seemed to move back in front of Karthikeyan too soon.

      Both this and Button’s coming together with Karthikeyan reminded me of some of the mistakes Hamilton made last year.

      When I first saw the McLaren running into the HRT I thought it was Hamilton and was saying to myself not again.

    52. Vamshi Bandii
      27th March 2012, 20:35

      And the stewards found no fault with Pastor Maldonado when he edged Grosjean off the track and ruined his race in Melbourne? How is that a racing incident and how is this a penalty? Vettel clearly moved into Narain’s way a bit too soon. He didn’t have to, but he did. He probably assumed that the HRT wasn’t that quick. Just a clumsy move and even clumsier behavior after the race.

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