Sebastian Vettel, Ferrari, Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez, 2016

Furious Vettel tells Whiting to “**** off” after Verstappen clash

2016 Mexican Grand Prix

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A livid Sebastian Vettel directed his anger at race director Charlie Whiting after clashing with Max Verstappen at the end of the Mexican Grand Prix.

The Ferrari driver lost his temper after Max Verstappen cut the first corner while under attack from Vettel late in the race:

From: Sebastian VettelHe has to let me go, he has to let me go.
To: Sebastian VettelOK copy stay calm.
From: Sebastian VettelNo it’s not right. I don’t stay calm. He’s just blocking me into Ricciardo
To: Sebastian VettelCopy that.
From: Sebastian VettelOK Verstappen has to give you the position. Watch for Ricciardo behind.
To: Sebastian VettelMove, move for [censored by FOM] sake.
From: Sebastian VettelHe has been informed, he has to move.
To: Sebastian VettelHe is a [censored by FOM]. Am I the only one or are you not seeing what I’m seeing? He’s just backing me off into Ricciardo. [Censored by FOM]
To: Sebastian VettelYou have to fight within. Charlie…
From: Sebastian VettelWhat the hell are you talking about? He cut the chicane.
To: Sebastian VettelCopy.
From: Sebastian VettelAnd now he’s brake-testing me.
From: Sebastian VettelI mean honestly I think I’m going to hit someone. I think I have a puncture. Rear left.
To: Sebastian VettelTyres are fine.
From: Sebastian VettelHe has to give me the position. End of the story.
To: Sebastian VettelCharlie said that… Charlie said.
From: Sebastian VettelYeah? Here’s a message to Charlie: [Censored by FOM] off. Honestly, [censored by FOM] off
To: Sebastian VettelSebastian calm down. They are under investigation I know it is not fair. But calm down. Put your head down and we will talk afterwards.
From: Sebastian VettelOK, copy Maurizio.
From: Sebastian VettelI think I showed enough. I mean, overtaking is not a walk in the park. So to me it is clear. That’s the last what I’m saying.
To: Sebastian VettelSebastian we understand, we talk afterwards and we want to talk with FIA. You have done a great race, really, I am proud of you.
From: Sebastian VettelGrazie ragazzi. Mate, strategy worked well. Shame about yesterday because the pace was there. Grazie.
To: Sebastian VettelThank you and well done for the race.
From: Sebastian VettelGrazie ragazzi. Mate, strategy worked well. Shame about yesterday because the pace was there. Grazie.
To: Sebastian VettelThank you and well done for the race.

Start Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez, 2016
2016 Mexican Grand Prix in pictures
Red Bull team principal Christian Horner told Verstappen there was “no debate about turn one, Ferrari were moaning about it” and that his move on Vettel had been “a lot less than what [Nico] Rosberg did at the beginning of the race”, referring to Rosberg cutting the same corner when Verstappen attacked him on lap one.

However the stewards disagreed and Verstappen was later given a five-second penalty, promoting Vettel to third. The stewards stated that “by leaving the track the driver was able to retain his position and hence, gained a lasting advantage”.

Verstappen was also given a single penalty point for the incident, putting him on a total of five.

2016 Mexican Grand Prix

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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  • 202 comments on “Furious Vettel tells Whiting to “**** off” after Verstappen clash”

    1. Verstappen and Vettel both need to go back to primary school. What a bunch of children.

        1. Nah, I wouldn’t cut corners to keep positions or cry on the radio if I was a racing driver.

          1. No, you wouldn’t be a racing driver to begin with.

            1. For the 5 or 6 people who want to know why I don’t comment much anymore or join the live streams much, this is the reason.

            2. I know I wouldn’t which is why I said ‘if’. These two were just completely out of their minds.

            3. what qualifies you to say who could and could not be a racing driver?. You don’t know that person or anything about them.

            4. I’ve only ever read the comments on F1 fanatic twice; both times memorably Uzair Syed has been involved in a childish spat

          2. spafrancorchamps
            30th October 2016, 21:28

            In front of Dutch tv, Verstappen has called it “ridiculous”. “If you look at turn 1, both Hamilton and Rosberg went off the track. They won a lot by doing that. I really find this unbelievable. He [Vettel] also moved under braking towards Ricciardo, I find this ridiculous. At least when I do it, I do it well. He does it in a really dumb manner. It is what it is, but the team is currently at the stewards”.

            1. But that does not mean Verstappen should not get a penalty. It means Hamilton SHOULD have gotten a penalty.

            2. Doesn’t Charlie take a more lenient line on first lap incidents?

            3. Pedro Guilherme De Almeida Carvalho
              31st October 2016, 8:45

              “At least when I do it, I do it well.” This kid will never be a world champion. I hope drivers start to treat Max the same way, until now everybody respect Max on track but i hope they wont do it anymore and we will see Max having more DNF for that. This is why we cannot have 17 years old kids on F1, they can drive like adults, but react like children.

            4. @gnosticbrian I think the problem is that ignoring cut corners on the first lap means that the lead driver can often take lots of risk by intentionally leaving braking late. If it works out he holds his lead through the corner, if he has to bail out and cut the corner he ends up with an even bigger lead. The Verstappen penalty (and subsequent Vettel penalty which was caused by Verstappen gaining an advantage) made a complete mockery of the stewards ignoring blatant advantage gained by both Rosberg and Hamilton on the first lap, had there been a gravel trap at that corner Hamilton and Rosberg would at best have been stuck in the midfield after lap one and at worst out of the race. Red Bull and Mercedes both got away with murder in the race while Vettel suffered, but the main issue is that it took away from what was (and should have finished) a great race from Verstappen, Vettel and Ricciardo (all three driving far better than the current WDC leader and giving us some great racing).

              The whole thing went wrong on lap 1. Had the Stewards had the balls to penalise Hamilton and Rosberg on lap 1 then I suspect Verstappen would have been more likely to give the position to Vettel (or perhaps not take the easy route across the corner), we would then have had a battle between Ricciardo and Verstappen and if Ricciardo could have got past and kept his pace up then possibly a final lap battle between Ricciardo and Vettel. It’s also likely that Hamilton and Rosberg would have been in the fight two having suffered the penalties they deserved.

            5. the fact what lewis did was on the first lap,then there was a vsc quickly after is why he wasnt punished.
              plus he didnt gain a place neither.

            6. Well. Whiting explained that Rosberg cut the corner to avoid (further?) contact with Verstappen @jerseyf1, and I think that if they had given him a penalty, they’d also dealt one to VES for that contact, so perhaps he would be better off not to mention that incident too much.

              Whiting also said that in his view Hamilton was ahead, and stayed ahead, and gave up some of the lead he had during the VSC, so he didn’t clearly gain a ‘lasting’ advantage – I guess you could argue that, and the stewards have ruled differently at other times too (though not in a 1st corner, I think?), so give him a 5s penalty – he still wins.

            7. For me both Hamilton and Verstappen were clearly in front when they braked too late and could not take turn 1. They then both failed to attempt turn 2. I didn’t see a lot of difference, except for Hamilton it was lap 1. The point was whether Hamilton kept the place, not that he lost the huge gain (either voluntarily or with the safety car).
              For me it has never been clear if the rule is considers “1. had they braked correctly to take turn 1, they would have had to battle for their place” or “2. in leaving the track, and rejoining in a way that brought them out in front, or with more speed, allowing them to maintain the position” . For both Hamilton and Verstappen they probably didn’t breach 1., but did breach 2..

              I expect this turn to have some modifications for next year, like a set of bollards you have to go through if you leave the track.

            8. R U for real?! You compare the way HAM went off-track, basically skipping an entire corner (corner no.2) with ROS just going a little off-track, pushed by VES??! Nobody pushed off-track HAM, so we can even suspect that he did it on purpose.

      1. Sebastian really stated everything in summary, the FIA. Finally someone spoke and voiced out because we needed that from someone. And no, they don’t need to go back to primary school because they are racing. Put yourself in the same shoes as them. I fully agree with Seb’s comments/statements and it should wake the FIA up.

        1. @krichelle To play Devils advocate, you agree with a driver whose comments included abuse to other drivers (Alonso, Massa and Verstappen) who have 400 + Grand Prix starts and 30+ race wins between them and a well-respected FIA official.

          Well I’m not having that, sorry. Vettel should get a serious punishment for unprofessional conduct alone. I suggested a race ban on social media, which to some fans might be too harsh but not unreasonable if you look at it this way: A footballer would probably get sent off with a red card if they verbally attacked a referee or linesman. A tennis player would probably get DSQ from the match if they repeatedly did the same to an umpire (I remember this happening to Serena Williams, who ironically was in the Mercedes motor home, during a US Open match several years ago).

          Yes it’s frustrating being stuck behind a driver who clearly should be behind you. Yes it’s frustrating when a driver wont get out of the way when blue flags are shown Yes it’s frustrating when a driver decides to change the track layout but it’s part of motor racing and it certainly doesn’t excuse one from engaging in any sort of name calling. What I saw from Vettel on the team radio this weekend is by far the most far from classy act I have seen from a Formula 1 driver.

          1. I agree completely that F1 drivers should adhere to the same level of professional conduct required from those in other sports. And Vettel’s radio comments have been getting steadily worse, this isn’t just an isolated occurrence. In previous races you could put it down to the heat of the moment, but he went well over the line today.

            But why are we hearing these outbursts in the first place? As far as I know, it’s FOM that decides which snippets of team radio get released to the press for broadcast, and a race will contain many communications that aren’t passed on. It really looks like the F1 authorities have explicitly decided to broadcast the fact that Vettel can swear at a senior FIA official and get away with it.

          2. Totally agree. Vettel has become worse and worse over the radio in the last years. The most striking thing is that this weekend he moved under breaking and during qualifying he blocked Hamilton. He’s become quite a hypocrite arrogant driver and I lost most of the respect I had for him (I think some of his colleges will agree with me). Maybe his huge ego is slowing the Ferrari down…..

      2. I don’t understand why Verstappen was childish on this one?

        He missed his braking point and chose to bet on the stewards not giving him a penalty. A lot of drivers have done a lot worse than that.

        1. By your logic being mugged is fine because you could have been murdered last Thursday. It is bad logic to bring 3rd parties into this. The fact is Max cut the corner and was wrong not to yield. You need to look at what happened and not say it’s fine because another driver did worse in the past.

          1. Its not the same. They didnt punish Hamilton, so its normal for Verstappen to think its ok to keep the position. Also on most tracks, missing corners is ok if it happens one time. If it happens multiple times you get punished. And Verstappen only did it once.

            1. But Hamilton wasn’t in a direct fight like VES was, and ROS was arguably trying to avoid further contact with VES.

        2. Verstappen completely cut the corner, didn’t give back the position and expected to keep it as if he legitimately earned it.

          1. You give the position back If It was taken. Where did vettel get along side?

            1. Or if you kept it by cutting a corner and going off track.

          2. Didn’t Hamilton do the same thing in Monaco? Not give the place to Ricciardo.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH46J6ksh7I

          3. Arnoud van Houwelingen
            31st October 2016, 0:39

            Vettel was not even close to Verstappen so why should Verstappen give a place back. There wasn’t also flags that indicated that Max should give the place back. But what really is disturbing is the hate towards Max here i mean jeez he didn’t kill anybody .. he was just fighting for his position. Everybody is hating Max for moving in the breaking zone but at least he dit it when he was in front of his opponent and Vettel did it when Ric was alongside him. But here nobody is criticizing Vettel like most of u did against Max .. i think that is hypocrite!

    2. A very fun final five lap completely ruined by a horribly rushed decision at the end.

      Verstappen was penalised for locking up and missing the first corner. On the first lap, Hamilton did exactly the same thing and wasn’t even investigated by the stewards despite gaining a clear advantage. Vettel moved in the braking zone defending against Ricciardo (something he has whinged about in the past).

      So it seems that swearing at the Race Director and your team using an expletive to describe a competitor gets your third place?

      Well done Hamilton for winning, Rosberg for doing what he needed to do, Verstappen for always being willing to race. Impressed by Vettel’s pace, disgusted by his behaviour.

      1. It was a horrible decision at the start. Hamilton should have been penalized, but maybe they took the safety car into consideration.

        1. They always give lap 1 and 2 incidents a different consideration, especially lap 1 turn 1 incidents, because the circumstances are very very different

        2. Well, to be fair, Lewis did not seem to gain any advantage over Nico by gaining time in going off, whereas Verstappen had a clearly bigger margin to the eye after he returned to the track to the chagrin of Vettel.

          1. @medman – not sure we watched the same race… Hamilton rejoined with one of the biggest leads I’ve ever seen after two corners in a Grand Prix. Verstappen had Vettel tight on his rear wing.

            I’m not saying Verstappen was right in his actions, but penalise both or neither.

            1. You must have missed the part where out came the virtual safety car, almost immediately, followed by the actual safety car shortly thereafter. Plus, the distance between Lewis and Nico did not grow following that botched turned the way it did for Max after his off.

            2. So what? The VSC wasn’t deployed so that Hamilton’s lead could be nullified. He failed to pay for the mistake he made at turn 1, in fact he gained from it.

          2. Completely missing the breaking point and then cutting the corner potentially saved him from losing several extremely important positions. I personally don’t see any difference between Hamilton’s or Verstappen’s incident. None of them should have been penalized or both…..

        3. Rosberg cut the corner as well therefore there is no clear evidence on how much Hamilton gained. As Rosberg was never in a position to challenge for first Hamilton only gained time which he lost again due to the safety car.

          1. Well said @unitedkingdomracing; and I also think that the stewards didn’t want to go and pull out penalties for the top three in the race just after the start, which in this case seems relatively fair (though Hulk will disagree :)

      2. ColdFly F1 (@)
        30th October 2016, 21:07

        ruined by a horribly rushed decision at the end.

        Garry Connelly was probably one of the stewards.

      3. I agree with you but you forgot Nico missed his turn also and gained a advantage. I understand Max decision but Vettel should get some agression traning whole weekend yelling over the radio.

        1. You could penalise Rosberg for “leaving the track and gaining an advantage” and you could penalise Verstappen for “forcing a driver off the track”…

          1. if ros didnt miss the corner, ver was happy to t bone him as he locked up massively to do the dive bomb…

      4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8bQEpc5hpA

        watch last secs, max telling vettel to masturbate :)

    3. Amazing.

      4x champion losing his temper in such a childish manner was so surreal! I couldn’t believe what I was hearing.

      Highlight of the race for me.

      1. Meh, it was time someone spoke out against that stuff. Verstappen seemed to get away with pretty much everything.

        1. Yeah, like moving in the braking zone. Am I right? XD

      2. Amazing once again VES gets pampered by F1. No surprise there. Vettel is right.

        1. I don’t see how Ves got pampered this time. He gained an advantage of a second and got a penalty that lost him 5 seconds and 2 places. Seems fair to me.
          If this had been Button vs Magnussen I doubt the reactions would have been anywhere close to what they are now.

          1. Verstappen had not much to lose by staying in front.
            1. He could get away with it
            2. He would back up Vettel into Riccardo, they fight, they loose 5 sec, job done
            3. He backs Riccardo into Vettel, Riccardo passes and takes 3rd.
            4. Current outcome, same as letting Vettel passed..

            So really the problem is that the 5 sec penalty is not much of a penalty.

            Riccardo probably should have waited, he rushed it (although the Vettel moving under braking messed up any subsequent try).

    4. I don’t blame Vettel one bit for being so upset…Verstappen made an unforced error, clearly gained track advantage, was told by his own team to give up the spot, and worst of all, the decision from the stewards was delayed until after the race, when quite frankly, a decision on whether to penalize or not needs to be made very quickly in that situation. You cannot leave these drivers in limbo, uncertain with the situation and it’s resolution.

      Then Max backs up Vettel into Ricciardo, and those two darn near take each other out in the process, which if the stewards and race control had done their jobs wouldn’t have materialized in that fashion to begin with. What a mess.

      1. Honestly, Max needs to learn to fight fair and admit defeat. He had been told by his team to give the place back.

        1. Finally he got a penalty for his ongoing bad sportsmanship.

        2. The team told him he might have to give back position. And they told him to “hold it for now”.

      2. ResultantAsteroid
        30th October 2016, 22:22

        +1
        In my opinion, either someone at RBR gives Max a proper wake up lesson, or he will move on getting a bigger head each time until it’s too late to get him back to reality.

        1. He has one win to his name, he seems to be acting like he is the reigning champion and points leader.

      3. Finally someone has a sensible comment! Vettel should not have been put in the position where he had to defend against Riciardo in the first place.
        Max clearly gained an advantage, he was only just ahead of vettel when he got back on track having taken a short cut. He should have given the place up so we could see if he could overtake legitimately whilst defending against his team mate. We were denied this exiting spectacle.
        Anyone who thinks that straight lining through 2 corners doesn’t give you an advantage has no idea about racing.

        Quite clearly there needs to be a marker or chicane to drive around to get back on track to negate gaining an advantage. This is basic and obvious and totally amateurish considering the level of the sport.

    5. That’s a big statement to FIA. Seb clearly woke them up with this.

    6. Vettel, totally understand your reaction.

    7. This is a perfect summary.

    8. Thats super that they really tell, at least sometimes, how “judges” are bunch of damn idiots. I guess they are mainly drinking FIA’s booze/drugs and enjoying hoes which are offered to them.

      Not odd they give a crap what actually happen on track.

    9. Someone had to say it.

      1. I think when you see what Charlie has achieved in the sport, and how much he’s given the drivers, you’d have to agree he deserves better than that

        1. Sport is sport. Tempers are high. Fergusons done it, keanes done it, mourinhos done it, John McEnroe has done it, emotions can get the best of you, when you think you’ve be wronged. Sure he shouldn’t have said F off, but the brain doesn’t operate sensibly when under pressure, we’re all guilty of letting a few curse words go flying when life gets the best of you.

          1. Yeah, Ferguson’s done it: he was handed a 4 match ban and a £20,000 fine.
            Keane’s done it: 5 match ban and £150,000 fine
            Mourinho’s done it: 1 match suspended ban and £50,000 fine

            Should I go on? It’s not acceptable behaviour from a professional sportsman.

            1. Not acceptable but it happens and will continue to happen, by the way, im talking about the numerous times ive seen Alex Ferguson tell a referee from the touchline to f off with no action taken. Besides Vettels comments were to his pit wall. it wasnt Vettel who decided to release the message for the world and kids to hear. blame lies with fom.

          2. Agree. It’s only words. Unsporting, keyword being ‘sporting’, behavior is the real culprit, and how we can put Verstappens (barely punished) and Hamiltons (unpunished) chicane cuts into the same bucket as impolite ‘words’ is ridiculous. It is much-much more important to teach kids about the fundamentals of proper sportsmanship which affects an events result rather than punishing someone for the use of some ‘naughty’ words. Some things are important. Some are nanny state.

          3. You never see this kind of behaviour in Rugby though. Are those players not sportsmen enough?

        2. It’s time for him to retire, that’s what Vettel was impling with his rant and quite frankly I think he’s right.

    10. Seriously, that was Piquet-like behaviour. I can’t remember a driver ever saying that to the race director.

      1. He didn’t say that to the race director.

        1. He did. Right there, on the radio that the race director listens into.

    11. Watching the replay after the race, you can see how Versrappen cutting the chicane loses him near enough no time, Vettel going on the course has a different (longer) route.

      And the backing up of vettel into Ricciardo, I wonder if Versrappen hadn’t done that then he may have kept the position…

    12. Someone should have said that to FIA race control years ago.

    13. Now I know for sure. Vettel is a [mod] and a [mod].

    14. Has Charlie got the power to DQ? Use it!

      Even in football, you tell the ref to FO, red card.

      Unacceptable.

      1. Football referees are consistent. Charlie and his merry band ARE not.

      2. If any Footbal referee had taken decisions regarding Verstappen like the FIA did, he would need to be escorted everywhere and people would throw beer at him.

      3. Yeah, but in football you don’t investigate a handball in front of goal after the game.

    15. Somehow I managed to miss the incident Verstappen got penalised for. What happened? Was it fair?

      1. He braked too late and missed the first corner. Penalty was fair.

        1. Problem was more that the others did the same and got no penalty. Consistent doesn’t not exsist in F1.

          1. Having seen the incident now, that’s my thinking too

      2. The move no the penalty yes

    16. Rick (@wickedwicktheweird)
      30th October 2016, 21:12

      I used to like Vettel but i find it increasingly difficult to keep this up in 2016. If a footballer would talk to the ref in the way he spoke to Charlie he would be given a red card.

      1. I actually had the same feelings about him this season, but I think this time he was actually right

        1. Rick (@wickedwicktheweird)
          30th October 2016, 21:37

          He right about VES gaining an advantage. I don’t mind him pointing that out, but he just should have said those things about the race director.

        2. Nagmaster Vettel, blue flags, are we racing or ping-ponging. Either one per race..

          1. Rick (@wickedwicktheweird)
            30th October 2016, 22:07

            Haha! Honestly..

    17. (1) Pushing Rosberg of the circuit at the start
      (2) Divebombing Rosberg and almost causing a collision
      (3) All the shenanigans at the end of the race

      = Verstappen was ridiculous today

      1. I’ve been reading these comments the whole year.

        When did Verstappen actually ruin someone’s race in a Maldonado-esque way this year?

        That’s right, never. People really should stop saying his a dangerous driver after seeing Maldonado flipping guys over for 5 years straight.

        1. he has 0 penalty points this year, but that’s obviously because all the other drivers are so good they avoid accidents and he is the darling of the stewards, who did an 180 after giving him the most (8) in 2015 /sarcasm

            1. Ok, yeah sorry, this year he has received 2 I think. One this race and another previously, I think.

              He’s received 10 so far in his career, 1 short of Maldonado’s career total.

            2. Max has a total of 8, 5 expired, all from 2015. The same total as bottas

            3. Yeah, I don’t know what I’m on about. lol But he has 1 now this year.

        2. @paeschli

          When did Verstappen actually ruin someone’s race in a Maldonado-esque way this year?

          First of all, you can ruin someone’s race without ramming them of the track (like Maldonado used to do). The dive-bomb on the inside of Rosberg could have easily cost Rosberg second place and the championship. I know it didn’t happen, but it’s that sort of merciless driving Verstappen is showing that’s now starting to affect the top drivers on the grid (IE Hamilton in Japan, Raïkkonen in Belgium and Rosberg and Vettel yesterday) and these guys are fighting for podiums and championships, they have seen it all and they are not pleased with his pushing-people-of-the-circuit-tactics, aggressive driving on (over?) the limit, defending his position (or attacking others in some cases).

          Secondly, where exactly did I say he was ruining someone’s race? I said he was overly aggressive and ridiculous yesterday. No doubt, however, that he will ruin some races later this season or next year if he continuous driving like he ownes the circuit from left to right…

          1. But that’s the whole point, he has been driving like that all year and it hasn’t caused any problems.

            Just stop complaining about him.

    18. Bring gravel traps or walls like Bernie said because this idiocy with corner cutting is getting out of hand! If someone is scared about safety,hellloooo…you can get killed by walking or going down the stairs and these sissies from FIA and certain F1 drivers can go do something else if they are scared. They are anyway getting paid money that like 100k people COMBINED can’t make in 40 years of working often *hitty jobs so i think they can take some risks!

    19. Duncan Snowden
      30th October 2016, 21:14

      The penalty against Verstappen was certainly justified (although a precedent had been set on the first lap with Hamilton’s similar move), but if Vettel had produced that rant face-to-face with the referee in a field sport, he’d have been sent off. The stewards should either have dropped their investigation at that point and given the benefit of the doubt to Max, or penalised them both.

      It’s all very well Sebastian trying to laugh it off now that he’s been awarded third place for his efforts and saying that “emotions were running high” or some such nonsense, but there’s no excuse. What kind of example does this set to younger fans, that yelling and swearing at the Race Director gets you what you want?

    20. bravissimo, champ.
      restecpa!

    21. Swearing in general is acceptable, given the heat of the moment.
      Swearing at another driver is not gentlemanly, its not cool.
      Swearing at the race directors or stewards is just not done.

      Vettel would have been my candidate for the DOTD, but since we’re going to vote for DOTW – Vettel’s petulance today and Hamilton’s consistency means Hamilton gets my vote.

      1. @phylyp * petulance this weekend

        1. @younger-hamii – 😂

          His best day was Friday, and it all went downhill from there!

    22. Can somebody please tell Vettel not to move under braking….

      1. its funny, how suddendly everyone shouts out, but when ves does it, its great and fresh and Genius. …

        1. Well they did sharpen the rule after Suzuka…. Vettel was so happy back then..

        2. Verstappen has not done it after the rule change. .

      2. ResultantAsteroid
        30th October 2016, 22:31

        I donot think they are the same. When Verstappen does it, he blocks the whole curve (review what he did with Hamilton or Kimi), so its like “Try to overtake me and you will end up in my gearbox”. So, it means a huge and possibly dangerous accident. But Vettel left a car length for Ricciardo, at least.

        1. Pat Ruadh (@fullcoursecaution)
          31st October 2016, 0:05

          I agree, Vettel left a cars width for Dan, I was good wheel to wheel action

          1. Yeah, I think so too. But it was Vettel along with other drivers, said that moving under braking is a no go.
            Penalty given.

      3. Vettel had his car pointing to the inner side of the corner BEFORE braking, and he did so because VES (once again) stepped on his brake pedal, so VET was just avoiding VES while deffending.
        Moreover, it was kind of a 2 against 1 fight, and VET fought back, and won.

        1. Vettel didn’t win. He cried, shouted and became third.

          1. *edit* moved under braking, cried, shouted and became fifth.

      4. Even if he did, he got squeezed unfairly. Those dirty tactics are typical of Red Bull, including when Vettel was there. That’s probably why he’s so aware of it.

    23. Verstappen refused to give back the position within the stipulated three laps. Instead of complying, his Red Bull team used him to back Vettel up in order to give Ricciardo a shot at passing. Verstappen should be disqualified in order to teach him and Red Bull that you do not cheat, end of.

      For his outburst against the Race Director, no matter the circumstances, Vettel should be given a $100,000 fine to be paid by him personally, no-one else, in order to teach him to control his gob.

      1. His team told him to let Vettel through though?

        1. yeah, i think they said something like “im afraid you will have to give back that Position “

      2. Arnoud van Houwelingen
        30th October 2016, 21:42

        So why is Hamilton not a cheat then .. He did exactly the same. Max saw what happened there and applied the same with Vettel. If Max got a penalty then Vettel should have a penalty as well for changing in the breaking zone .. The same action he critisized Max furiously over!

        1. Changing to avoid the cheating created by Max.

      3. At Henrik. Most sensible comment on this thread.

      4. He was under investigation. He wasn’t penalized there yet and there is no rule prohibiting blocking someone to help your teammate.
        Why shouldn’t he help his teamate and team?

    24. Disgraceful behaviour from Vettel. Very disappointing.

    25. I get why Vettel would be angry at Verstappen who by the way needs another stern talking to. But Vettel in my opinion cant say what he said about Charlie Whiting. Its unprofessional and this sport is better than that and Vettel should behave better as a 4 x WDC.

    26. Formula 1 needs more of this. More drivers saying what they actually feel and no PR reps sent by the team afraid that they might say something that will put the image of their brand at risk…

      1. Also- I am unsure if Verstappen should have been penalized. It was Vettel’s fault for not being able to pass Verstappen on the straight after the Moises Solana esses.

        1. Disagree there however. Verstappen cut the corner under pressure and as a result got an easy escape. Don’t forget if that weren’t a chicane he would have in all likelihood let both cars through by going wide

      2. I completely agree. The only thing is I would have loved to see this settled by good driving rather than radio messages.

        Nevertheless it was good to hear and hopefully the FIA will keep up the correct decisions.

    27. Verstappen didn’t miss the brake point. He could still have stopped the car enough to make the turn and not cut the track through the grass, he simply chose NOT to as he would obviously lose the position. He bet on the fact that he has got away with a lot of crap over the course of the year.

      He is an excellent driver, but reminds me of early Schumi. Anything goes for winning. Pretty much anything.

      Vettel lost his temper, yeah, but one can only imagine how it must feel inside a car at over 300+ km/h at the heat of the moment knowing that you’ve been victim of an unfair movement.

      Ultimately, the FIA should be blamed for the mess. Had they ordered VES to move straight after the incident this would have been avoided.

      All in all, at least it was fun to watch. F1 can live with a couple of controversy. It spices things up, eheh

      1. +1. He looked like he was going slow enough. He took advantage of it being a chicane. In a normal corner he would have gone wide.

        The FIA could introduce a rule prohibiting defending through leaving the track

      2. >Vettel lost his temper, yeah,

        He’s losing his temper quite a lot this season. He has also made quite a lot of silly mistakes this season.
        Maybe he should quit F1 and try a career in ping pong.

      3. He could still have stopped the car enough to make the turn and not cut the track through the grass, he simply chose NOT to as he would obviously lose the position.

        Isn’t this exactly what Hamilton did?

        If there was gravel at the outside of that turn, both Hamilton and Verstappen wouldn’t have finished the race.

        Why is it so hard for stewards to be as consistent as gravel?

    28. Vettel can be happy that Mosley is not the FIA president anymore. He might be looking at a 2 race ban for saying that to the race director!

      1. Wow, it seems that Todt was watching and is taking this very seriously as well. Comparable to a football player critisizing the referee. Who is Ferrari’s reserve driver??

    29. The real winner here is Ricciardo. His measured response after the race, sticking up for his teammate and noting how Hamilton should have been penalised too = bang on. Excellent reaction.

      1. Not a fan of the guy but I really liked his response today. Glad that someone is showing some maturity here.

      2. Arnoud van Houwelingen
        30th October 2016, 21:45

        Well Ricciardo was right wasn’t he

    30. F1 is a circus and Whiting is the biggest clown.

      1. Ahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

    31. Disgraceful behaviour from Vettel? I’d say disgraceful behaviour from the stewards and the FIA. No consistency what so ever. About time somebody spoke out. Vettel is a bit grumpy, but I loved his comments and emotion. Isnt that exactly what team principals have been saying they wanted?

    32. Brilliant from Vettel. These inconsistent stewards need to know that drivers will be on their case if they are inconsistent.

    33. I think vettel was right to be upset, he didn’t handle it in a nice manner, a fine should be given but no grit penalty or stuff.
      I think ham doesn’t deserve penalty for first corner because the advantage was first corner hazard related and just afterwards non existent due to safety car

      Verstappen was disgraceful in the end, first stealing position and then backing seb into Daniel

      This season it was hard to be a vettel fan but mid race I said it’s the first time in forever that I like what he is doing

      1. Interesting, I have a completely different viewpoint to you.

        Even though Ham AND Rosberg did the same move on lap 1 as Verstappen for cutting the corner, it was ignored due to the safety car taking the space gap from the car behind. However the incident for the safety car didn’t take in effect until after both Mercedes cut the corner. If anyone thinks Verstappen pushed Roseberg off the track I would like to say Verstappen left room for Rosberg with some tarmac next to the grass but Rosberg slowed down and decided to avoid the red bull by cutting the corner instead of pushing for the apex and fight for position.

        For your comment on Verstappen being disgraceful for backing Vettel into Ricciardo I don’t think it was that disgraceful as he was confident he was in the right. That if Ham and Ros cut the corner on turn 1 lap 1 then why would he give the place back. For backing up I think that’s fine too because its racing, not a drive-by also its a team sport so I believe he was trying to benefit Ricciardo plus his tyres were pretty old, not much performance left so he was slow.

        Oh and I don’t agree with people saying Vettel should be penalized from moving under-breaking as Vettel was fighting 2 cars at once and was a bit aggy about the corner cutting, understandable except for the swearing.

        If you want an argument you’re not going to get one my views are my views no one is going to change them :)

        Also I’m going to put links to the incidents from Lap 1 and Lap 68 to 71 to validate my points

        1. For some reason the links didn’t show up:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8bQEpc5hpA <—Ves vs Vet

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLCLq51aScQ <—-Ham and Ros cutting corner (I still don't think Ves push him off that much)

    34. ColdFly F1 (@)
      30th October 2016, 21:27

      Quite impressed with Vettel.
      Besides having all these conversations he still had time to brake and steer simultaneously ;-)

    35. What happens if you insult the umpire at a baseball game? same should happen with Vettel. But Formula 1 can’t tolerate a driver who tries to race, and protects a spoiled brat who insults authorities. Good F1, good.

      1. i think there are quite a Lot people who consider max the spoiled brat, including racing experts on TV, Christian danner from RTL said a penalty for verstappen was overdue, and it was, this was a fair penalty … I dont say sebs rant was good, but i Do understand his emotions especially After this season

    36. The Verstappen Penalty was completely fair, he deserved the 5 seconds as he did clearly gain track position…

      I can understand Vettel kicking off about the delay of the decision, which, to be fair was a no brainer, however, he does need to be penalised for his recurring swearing… I won’t necessarily say it should be a track penalty, but, a strong fine should be given… Just about every other sport, the sports person would be punished for a single use of ‘heard’ bad language…

    37. It’s rather funny how we fans so often say the FIA is inconsistent and how we (including me) often talk down about people ruling the sport be it Bernie, the stewards or whomever. On the other side we so often claim drivers are PR machines. Then we get this situation where a driver speaks straight from the heart about a topic we all feel has been unfair for many races to many drivers. For me it only shows how passionate they are, and it is good that they occasionally show that. In essence it is the same as Verstappen saying ‘I’m not here to finish fourth’ in last weeks race, or Hülkenberg saying ‘that’s how it’s done ladies’ in Japan. These men love the sport and all want to finish on that mighty Mexican podium.

      If anything is to come from all of this I hope the FIA will again open the case regarding off track excursions which still happen to easily. Can you imagine a gravel trap over there, it would contain enough drivers to play Monopoly.

      1. There is being passionate and then there’s just being plain disrespectful. If I acted like that in my job, I’d be asked to leave… even if I was clearly right.

        1. @john-h I understand that, but we both don’t work in an environment even close to a racing team where rules are hardly the same. On top of that Vettel works for Ferrari, and not for the FIA.

    38. Verstappen is being very hard, sometimes over the limit.
      But Vettel’s moaning and swearing is getting too much now.

      I do not even take Hamilton’s lock-up in the first corner into consideration – for me it was ok. But Verstappen forcing Rosberg off the track to avoid a crash and someone accusing Rosberg of cutting the corner? I mean, really. He is fighting for the title, Geez. I heard/read somewhere, that Rosberg should be penalized for that situation because of corner cutting – for me blind people saying that.

      Vettel should get a serious talking to for his behavior on the radio. And a financial fine would be appropriate too in my opinion.

      And, what I find the most disturbing is, that the decisions of the stewards are very inconsistent – and that is causing the biggest trouble. Don’t think anything will change this season. Hope for the next one.

    39. Unacceptable by Verstapen, he lost his place by going off track, was told to give the position back, but instead chose to force Vettel into his team mate. The most un-sporting behaviour ever seen in F1. Yeah, and f… Charlie too for bringing the sport into this poor state. Now disqualify me for swearing. For those who keep comparing F1 with football, well done to Zidane for his head kick on in the final against that puppy of a player.

      1. Not true; he wasn’t told that at all. Listen to the message again. Even then it’s up to the stewards to make such a call. Vettel was misinformed by his team about Max having to let him pass. No reason to behave like Vettel did, as I wrote in another topic Vettel blocked Hamilton in Qualifying on Saturday and moved twice on Ricciardo during the race. They should remove Vettel’s radio-button.

    40. Verstappen is awesome. And he is only 18. Such a breath of fresh air he felt he was in the right and stuck to his guns. He also has so much speed and is very exciting wheel to wheel. Super race craft too. Just brilliant.
      Vettel was probably in the right but he came accross very poorly indeed with his choice of language and general behaviour.

      1. “Super race craft too”

        So good that he couldn’t keep it on the track. Which is what caused all this to begin with

      2. Oh yes, brilliant racecraft when he completely cuts corners to keep positions, right?
        Verstappen is so overrated, it’s a joke.

        1. if i read these forums, i get the idea that many don’t rate Max that high in which case, he is actually better than what people think of him and is no longer overrated. rejoice! Subject to change of course.

      3. Vettel was spoiled coming into Red Bull so young and then ‘dominating’ in a great car. He’s fast when in front with a clear track, which is why he was so good in qualifying, setting him up to finish most races from the lead. He’s never (correct me if wrong) won a race from lower than 3rd on the grid. He’s not traditionally a fighter. Now he has to fight in every race, and while he’s doing well, it’s frustrating him a bit too easily. A few years now without a win and Hamilton blitzing him in the overall tally Vettel still feels his rightful place is at the front, but instead is learning what it’s like to be a great driver fighting for position against better cars.

        1. I mean a year without a win.

    41. Verstappen is the new “Crashgate” Alonso of modern formula 1.

    42. Extremely unprofessional, that’s all there is to say.

      Doesn’t matter if he was right or not (I don’t think he was – Verstappen actually lost time there, quite the opposite to Hamilton, who did not get penalized) — Vettel is always very disrespectful towards other drivers in his radio comments and this time he has crossed a line in terms of being childish. Take a break, Seb.

    43. Well having watched the whole race from start to finish, I don’t normally agree with Bernie , but this track limits and forcing other drivers off the track is getting ridiculous. Firstly, Vettel should be penalised for bringing sport into disreute with his language and if we had been at a track like Monaco then most of the so called ‘top’ drivers would not have been classified as they would have been in the barriers.

      No wonder people are turning to other forms of sport, if the rules of track limits are going to be fragrant ignored. If you lock-up and go off track then you should face some form of penalty otherwise why bother to have white lines and kerbs, we might as well turn F1 into motorcross.

      1. I can see if your a backmarker floundering around in the back, but if your leading and shoot straight off the track, you lost the lead. Point blank. No wiggle room. You can just come back on the track and act like there was no turn. How embarrassing for F1.

    44. Were Sebastian Vettel a footballer and had verbally abused the referee like that, he’d have been sent off and given a three match ban.

      Disgraceful.

      1. Just suppose it had been another driver that verbally abused the race steward like that. Imagine it had been Hamilton…

      2. Yeah because football referees go around recording the stuff footballers tell their coaches and teammates about them. Exactly the same situation there.

    45. Cry baby fingerboy…..

    46. Multi 21, Seb. Multi 21. :P

    47. Seems there is 2 rules in this sport, Verstappens and the FIA’s,
      In the end right thing was done,

        1. Nice eye I noticed that too but I believe Vettel was still angry at not being in front of Ves because of the corner cut and so he wanted to undertake at that corner but then reacted to Ric late. 2 verses 1 I think Vettel was kind of squeezed in-between.

    48. Watch in slowmo. You can see clearly Vettel driving on the left, then going all the way to the right side of the track, before crossing back over.

    49. Looks like Charlie/FIA said the same thing to Vettel and gave him 10sec penalty…

    50. If it was so bad..Why was it broadcast? It seems it was for ratings and forum fodder.

    51. Driver of the Day

    52. While his behavior is questionable and at least annoying, also is Charlie’s. Existing rules are not applied or applied inconsistently, penalties are used as means of controlling drivers, safety issues are treated politically, wealthiest teams are favored, etc.

    53. Quite honestly, I enjoyed the last few laps and these post race antics from both the camps which enlivened the otherwise boring race. Drivers are meant to emote and although one might agree or disagree with them, it gets people talking about it.

      As for Sebastian, I really feel that he is imploding with how Ferrari has performed. It’s difficult to imagine that a year ago, we’re all laughing his antics at the press conferences and praising him for finally breaking the Red Bull-Adrian Newey shackles and performing. In 2015, the expectations of Sebastian as well as the fans were far less from Ferrari having came off another dismal season in 2014 and the team surprised with two wins and a couple of podium finishes. Come 2016 and expectations were higher and it’s turned out a failure with Red Bull having picked up and Ferrari making mistakes at almost every race in some form or the other.

      I can’t recall a time where I’ve heard Sebastian complaining at every race but this year I find him complaining about everything whether it’s tires, blue flags, car itself or even an opponent (Massa) who was just racing him. People are not even talking about a Ferrari challenge in 2017 while some are even talking about a McLaren-Honda
      rise which speaks volumes about Ferrari’s image in general public.

      Sebastian is trying very hard not to speak badly of Ferrari thus proving even more fodder to the already hungry media and hence his frustrations are taken out on other things. It’s a sign of a man frustrated with failed deliveries of great promises something Fernando was well versed about.

      1. +1

        Four world titles count for diddly squat if you need every driver to jump out of your way regardless of whether it is a practice or race session. Sebastian has always been an entitled whiner on track, but today he took it to new depths. I can understand Max not being very mature at times due to his age, but a driver of Vettel’s experience and achievements should’ve been able to handle the situation with some grace.

      2. Vettel sounds like a very stressed man right now. I’ve never heard him so agitated.

        I think 2017 will be absolutely critical for him. If Ferrari can’t challenge for wins then I have a feeling he could even call time on his F1 career. I hope they do improve and this doesn’t even become a possibility because the sport is a better place for having Vettel.

    54. I don’t have a clue what Horner is on about regarding Rosberg’s move at the first corner, because he was quite simply forced off the track by Verstappen there. Had Verstappen gained the place, then in my book that would have been the illegal maneuver.

    55. Pedro Guilherme De Almeida Carvalho
      31st October 2016, 9:02

      I hope with new management all this crap ends.
      Maybe bernie was right, use tyre barries and believe me they wont cut corners anymore.
      My take on this race:
      – First incident corners cannot be take serious: hamilton cut the corner because we was not able to make the corner, it was first lap, he was well ahead of rosberg; rosberg on that same corner went of track because max thinks he is racing in the BTCC
      – Ver did cut the corner because even with the lockup, he slowed down enough to make the next 2 corners but decided to cut them
      – Vettel had Ric attaking him and no driver wants to stay between 2 team mates
      – Ver got the call to give place back, he KNEW that, that is why he decided to slow down, making vettel getting alot of presure from Ric
      – The move between Ric and Vet for me was what everyone called RACING
      – All what happen after with the podium and now Vet losing 3rd to Ric is just ridiculous
      Max moves got a lot of hate from drivers because they were dangerous: Max moves to block and not defend. Raikonen damage his wing once because of this, Hamilton and other drivers went of track because of Max moves. Vettel just made it harder for Ric to pass.
      We need the stewards to be the same all season, is just ridiculous that a sport with a bible of rules, with tv replays, different cameras, full telemetry, and still are not able to be consistente with the penaltys

    56. ettel has crashed into other people this year at least three time in the furst lap yet he hasn’t accept responsability. Then he started cursing and saying bad words about other drivers like max,alonso,sainz,massa. He called massa idiot because Massa was racing for the position. Then he cursed more and more.. I think that in the last few races he has cursed at least 5 drivers. on qualifying he blocked hamilton but the stewards did not penalized him. He needs a race ban suspension.

    57. Whiting explained that Hamilton took no advantage of cutting 3 corners over the grass in the first round.
      Look at the footage, what is Verstappen moaning about or does he have a case after all?.
      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwCdcDDWEAEPtbT.jpg

    58. Vettel is behaving more and more like an Italian driver in Roma traffic jams after joining Ferrari. Funny…

    59. Grass Run Off
      A device that removes the need for track extending/corner cut penalties and therefore removes any potential inconsistency from stewards.

    60. ILuvSoundtracks (@)
      31st October 2016, 15:39

      Vettel told Whiting to listen to all his every single angry team radio since he started his F1 career. Vettel is an angry Formula 1 driver since 2010 and will always be angry for his entire F1 career.

      Tells Verstappen needs to concede the position first, gets angry, gets angrier and gets very angry towards Charlie Whiting. Next GP he’ll probably be very angry if something like this happens again.

    61. Vettel should not have been put in the position where he needed to defend against totaly unfair, no woder he was angry.
      Max clearly gained an advantage, he was only just ahead of vettel when he got back on track even though he took a short cut. Anyone who thinks that straight lining through 2 corners doesn’t give you an advantage has no idea about racing.
      Quite clearly there needs to be a marker or chicane to drive around to get back on track to negate gaining an advantage. This is basic and obvious and totally amateurish considering the level of the sport. This would have sorted out the Hamilton incident and taken pressure off the stewards as infringement is much clearer.

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