Lance Stroll, Williams, Sepang International Circuit, 2017

Vettel: Stroll changed direction without looking

2017 Malaysian Grand Prix

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Sebastian Vettel continues to hold Lance Stroll responsible for their collision in Malaysia, claiming the Williams driver changed direction without looking in his mirrors.

The pair collided on the slow-down lap at Sepang as Vettel overtook Stroll on the outside of turn five. Vettel said this was normal: “You have people going different speeds all the time, some people going very slow, others not in a rush but just going a bit quicker back to the pits.”

New video reveals Vettel crash view stewards didn’t see
Vettel said Stroll “didn’t look in his mirrors, he wasn’t aware” and drove into him. “He said that he wanted to pick up rubber,” Vettel continued. “Now, picking up rubber doesn’t justify to just change direction and drive into someone.”

“For him probably it wasn’t as much a surprise as it was for me. So I don’t take it personal but as I say it was completely unnecessary. If you decide to change your direction then you should be aware of what’s going on, who’s behind and probably next to you.”

The stewards cleared both drivers of causing the crash. Stroll denies responsibility for the collision and told the BBC he and Vettel “haven’t really spoken” since then. “It was after the race and I don’t think it really changed anything for either of us,” Stroll added.

Vettel suffered rear suspension damage in the crash but Ferrari believe his gearbox can still be used, meaning he will avoid having to change it and receive a grid penalty.

The Williams came off better in the collision. “I got some damage on my barge boards and a bit off the floor,” said Stroll. “Nothing too big, but I did have a puncture afterwards on my front-right so I had to bring it back slowly.”

2017 Malaysian Grand Prix

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    Keith Collantine
    Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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    132 comments on “Vettel: Stroll changed direction without looking”

    1. Delusional.

      1. LH pay him for it. Lolz.

    2. after seeing all on-boards this story doesn’t hold

      It simply not the truth, Vettel cut him off like he does more often during races

      I think it’s unbelievable that he hit people during safety car and during in lap in 1 season and gets away quite easily

      1. Vettel never gets closer to the left side of the track once he gets next to Stroll.
        On the contrary, Stroll gets farther away from the left side of the track once he enters the corner.
        That’s what it means to change direction.

        1. James – No. I suggest that you refresh your undestanding of Newton’s laws. Stroll does NOT change his steering input or accelerate. Vettel, travelling at a far higher speed, chops across the front of Stroll. Vettel is the author of his own misfortune.

          1. @gnosticbrian

            Stroll does NOT change his steering input or accelerate.

            Using that exact logic, Hamilton was at fault for Austria 2016, right?

            1. You ought to contemplate the difference between race laps and cooling down laps.

              I suggest that you take up any issues that you may have with Hamilton with the man himself. Aunt Sally.

    3. Not that this needs to go on any further, but come on Vettel!
      Looking at both onboards, Vettel makes a much more pronounced change than Stroll. I’d go so far as to say Stroll doesn’t really make a change. His line just wasn’t hugging the inside of the turn and so he drifts a little to the outside. Given the circumstances, if I had to pick someone, I’d say Vettel is the instigator of the crash. I’m happy to chalk it up to some end-of-the-race distraction on both of their parts and be done with it.

      1. I agree with your view.

      2. Looking at the onboard totally proves what Vettel is saying, and I’m sure has looked at the onboards.
        Now, it is a corner, and I understand it might be difficult to process the situation. But here’s a tip: just because Stroll was always turning to the left doesn’t mean he didn’t turn to the right. How’s that possible? Yeah, that’s why it’s difficult to process, I understand.
        It’s possible because if Stroll had proceeded the way he was, turning left, he’d actually have run off the road because he wasn’t turning left ENOUGH. That’s why Stroll is at fault here.

        1. James you are forgetting super important thing, those guys were not racing and Stroll had to take this left turn the way he did, he wouldn’t have run to the off road because he was not flying. Vettel took super risk with this move and it’s obvious from his speed, again when race has already ended.

        2. Just because he was always turning left doesn’t mean he didnt turn to the right ?

          That’s some wicked flawed logic right there @James

      3. In the words of car crash specialist Vic Reeves…

      4. If you decide to change your direction then you should be aware of what’s going on, who’s behind and probably next to you.

        Also, this quote rather ignores that Vettel was coming around the outside of the corner, on a trajectory that would have them running fairly close together even if both drivers maintained their position relative to the apex, and with a massive speed differential. I don’t really understand how Stroll was expected to know he was there.

    4. Vettel is so good at dishing out blame and will never accept any.

      1. William B Davis
        6th October 2017, 10:44

        This x 1000

        Vettel has an incredible ability to play the victim. He’s always been very clearly spoiled throughout his career. Thoroughly objectionable character.

        1. Simon Salad-Cream
          6th October 2017, 12:40

          This is equally true of all F1 drivers.

    5. You can’t weight a broken car ot check the data logger from the steeringwheel..

      1. @noname I think that you’ll find you can weigh a broken car quite easily.

        1. Yeah, you just use a broken scale.

          1. The problem is if the car is underweight then Ferrari could claim the marshalls failed to pick up all the pieces.

            1. @drycrust they don’t weight the broken bits, anything not complete is replaced with identical spares.

    6. Vettel’s insistence that Stroll turned into him is nonsense and quite embarrassing. The video from Stroll’s car clearly shows him holding a consistent line and steering position. There may be the slightest hint of a drift away from the kerb but nothing that could justify Vettel’s claim.

      This is classic Vettel though. He knows he made a cock-up but lashes out at the other party to try and deflect criticism on to somebody else.

      That said, I don’t think it was deliberate. There’s no conspiracy or anything, he just wasn’t concentrating….again.

      1. You admit LS drifts to the right. Now look back again at LS’s onboard and see him only ever looking left. LS is the only one here that loses concentration. He does not bother to check his outside mirror as he drifts away from the apex. SV doesn’t ‘know he made a cock-up’ because he doesn’t make one. LS has all the room he needed on the inside to continue to veer toward the apex, which no doubt he would have done, had he seen SV come around him on the outside.

        1. Imwithstupid^^
          6th October 2017, 18:14

          He doesn’t have to. The onus is on the overtaking driver to do so safely. It’s not like he’s trying to defend. There are plenty of other places Vettel could have passed him with 0 risk.

          1. Haven’t seen anyone mention this (though with hundreds of posts someone probably has) but the passing driver should ensure he does so safely. This is standard at every level of Motorsport and why the overtaking driver tends to get the penalty for contact during races. Vettel simply didn’t pass safely. Stroll didn’t make any sudden movements and is entitled to drive wherever the hell he wants on a slow down lap (there’s no such thing as a racing line when the objective is to pick up rubber). With that said I’m fine with it being considered a racing incident (especially since the party likely at fault also took most of the pain) but VET seems to have lost his maturity the last couple of seasons. Petulant last year and then causing unnecessary incidents and blaming the other driver this year.

        2. Hopefully when you overtake you are more aware than Vettel was.
          99% of all drivers do and those that don’t end up smashing their vehicles.

          That is what all drivers do and 4 times champs are no exception. When you are in the hunt for a championship you take even more care. He thinks he is entitled. One day he will realise that he is also entitled to jump off a cliff.
          He will have another DNF before the season ends.

          I respect his driving but at many other levels he is an insult.

    7. I often feel that the drivers forget that we (and the FIA) have many of the onboards at our disposal.

      1. Off the cuff, 5 minutes after the incident, adrenaline still pumping strong, I’d accept Vettel’s comment. It could be his view of the matter before having a chance to review what happened, and such.
        But now? I’m sorry to say everyone else has had the time to analyse things and knows better and Vettel should too.
        Tying in with your comment, this of course applies to any driver.

        1. Funny, because the onboards show Stroll moving right… :\

          1. While only ever looking left.

            1. Yes @robbie, because Grosjean was approaching. My guess is that Stroll was more concerned with Grosjean on his left, since there was far, far more room for Vettel on the right, and he probably assumed a 4-time champion with Vettel’s experience would never cut across his path suddenly and risk his own championship-essential car in the process. He’s just use all that lovely free tarmac to get round the corner. He wouldn’t want a repeat of the ‘Singapore Squeeze.’ Oh.

          2. Even funnier, the onboards show Stroll steering left. Is there no end to this mystery?

            1. @david-br LS didn’t bother to check for anyone coming around the outside, so no he didn’t assume anything about SV…he didn’t even care to check anything but his left side to see if SV or anybody else was there.

              4-time proven Champ vs. a rookie who on this site most have said doesn’t belong in F1, is only there because of his Dad’s money, and is wasting a seat at Williams that should go to someone far more deserving, and who doesn’t care to do anything but look left as he drifts away from the apex and into SV, but yeah…this is all on SV. Oh please. And I do believe LS belongs where he is. The SV rhetoric is, as someone put it, the ‘in’ thing to do these days, even when it’s not warranted.

            2. @robbie

              LS didn’t bother to check for anyone coming around the outside, so no he didn’t assume anything about SV…he didn’t even care to check anything but his left side to see if SV or anybody else was there.

              I think you need to look up the meaning of the word “assume”. Hint: he didn’t check because he assumed noone would be there.

              Im saying nothing about the relative guilt of either party, just about the language used in your post.

    8. He should get a 5 places grid penalty even without changing the gearbox, how dare they? I bet it is damaged and they lobbied to replace it without the other teams knowing.

      He crashed it on purpose, believe you me, no way that car was so quick during the race, ha passed Bottas how is that even possible? Especially in Vettel’s hands, the most over-rated multi champion ever.

      Always getting away with stuff, now this? Hundredth time this year ALONE he deliberately crashes into people. It iso so clear on the onboard, he turns left, on a left turn,,, madness!

      The red mist, it is the red mist.

      This is the typical Ferrari and Vettel rant, no need to read any further, this will save you guys a lot of time

      1. I think it speaks volumes that it took me quite a while into your comment to realise it was sarcastic.

        It seems to me that more and more the comments here have become extremely polarised. This seems to me to be a clear case of 2 drivers not paying enough attention and colliding, an opinion supported by the steward’s ruling. Vettel should have left more room but clearly didn’t expect Stroll to be moving in a direction away from the apex and Stroll should have been more aware of Vettel’s car but probably didn’t expect Vettel to be as close to him as he was. Of course each driver is going to maintain that they did nothing wrong, and to be fair, neither really did, why there is this deep seated need to have a villain is beyond me.

        1. Web is not a villain.
          But he is an idiot.

          The question really should be what was the need to overtake and that too on a bend.

          Did he perhaps think that there was an outside chance he could still win the race.

      2. I’m having a little difficulty in understanding why turning left at a left turn is madness. Perhaps you could try an alternative and report back from the hospital bed.

        And before I choose to ‘not read any further’, could you itemise the other 99 times Vettel has deliberately crashed into ‘people’, otherwise I would have to assume that you are being wildly inaccurate in all your claims and that reading your post was a waste of time.

        1. From my hospital bed I’m taking some drugs that have on me strong side effects, the most common high concentration of sarcasm in my blood stream, which is sometimes incomprehensible for some to spot it, but believe me, it is there

          1. @johnmilk Well said! :O)

          2. See, I told you that if you chose to turn right at a left turn junction it wouldn’t end up well.

      3. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
        6th October 2017, 13:20

        Yes Seb is extremely unpopular for his misdemeanours and people have a view on that.

    9. “but as I say it was completely unnecessary.”

      Yes Seb, just like putting yourself in such close proximity to Lance when you had ample space around the outside… unnecessary.

      1. I was ready to move on from that stupid crash @ninjenius – indeed, Vettel says that one true thing – it was completely unnecessary, as was him going into it again only to keep blaming someone else, rather than the wise thing of saying it was stupid and he’ll have to be more careful to stay in the fight from now on.

        1. I lost a lot of respect for Vettel based on his stubborn – against the evidence – comments.

          I have even more problems with this than the stupid action and remarks he made after Baku (and that was truly stupid).

    10. It’s usually Hamilton that gets the Senna comparisons, but there’s one area where Vettel is identical to Senna; the complete flat-out refusal to accept blame, even in the face of hard evidence. Come on Seb, just let it go. You’re not making it easy to be a fan right now

      1. @celicadion23 Maybe Vettel was thinking: “If you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver”

        1. Maybe He wants to win a WDC by crashing deliberately into his opponent like Ayrton, he is just practicing.

          1. Or like Prost did in 1989??!!
            They both did the same thing- don’t forget that!

            1. I thought the topic was the Hamilton – Vettel – Senna comparison.

        2. Simon Salad-Cream
          6th October 2017, 12:44

          “I did not have sexual relations with that Williams.”

    11. I strongly dislike Hamilton, but Vettel is really making me feel like I should support HAM in title battle this season. That’s an achievement, Seb.

      1. That’s what I have felt – not struck on Hamilton, fan of Seb, but…but, Hamilton has driven superbly this year and Vettel, as badly as I’ve ever seen, despite some excellent results for him. It would take a miracle for Vettel to win the championship and if he were to do so, it would be not regarded as deserved because he has bashed so many other cars and broken rules, (steering wheel, ride on car), and got away with it. He’s become like the boy who cried ‘wolf!’ – nobody takes his exclamations of innocence seriously anymore.

        Still, it makes lots of talking points and a fun year.

        1. Hamilton has driven superbly this year

          No he hasn’t. After the summer break? Sure. But his start to the season was very inconsistent. Russia, Monaco, Austria and Hungary were not even close to his best weekends.

      2. (@huhhii)
        I can’t stand Hamilton, but at least I respect him as a driver.

        Vettel manages to be unlikable AND mediocre.

    12. Really? Look at Strolls onboard! He is looking into the left hand mirror and is not turning right! Don’t let facts distract you from your own conclusion, right?

    13. I was not-a-fan, but he makes it really really hard not to dislike him. He hit Stroll. Although it is Vettels fault, I can live with the ruling, Stroll was on a slightly bigger radius than the corner. Vettel speaks out that he is unimpressed with Strolls driving capacity. Now if he really believes that, why on earth was he so close to him in the first place. So even if Stroll was to blame, he still looks stupid for being so close to this ‘liability on track’. Vettel should shut up about it, knowing he got away with it. And when asked about it he should answer something like “I have my own view on the incident but the stewards ruled ‘no further action’ so we are moving on”.

      I’m ok with any of them making mistakes, I’m ok with them keeping their own views about incidents, I’m ok with them saying something stupid in the heat of the moment. I’m not ok with blatant lying days after the incident. This “change of direction” didn’t happen. And he is still attacking Stroll but in fact making himself look like an idiot.

      I hope he pulls one of his dirty moves on Verstappen, or someone else who can be as ruthless. I’m not a fan of the ‘squeeze off the track’-overtake but that is what will happen, like Silverstone. Or the Brazil ’16 one. Only this time I want to see that red car sliding a long way on the grass into a barrier under a constant symphony of angry German English swear words

      1. Unfortunately, it’s typical Vettel. It’s just the way he is. We’ve seen it blatantly three times this year already with his insistence on being brake checked by Lewis (and subsequent refusal to even acknowledge the fact that he banged wheels afterwards… not even to claim it was accidental, just absolute refusal to acknowledge it even happened), in Singapore when he refused to accept any responsibility for his part in the lap 1 shunt (the Vettel way: initially blame everybody else, then when it’s becoming clear he bears any responsibility, just say “oh, talking about it changes nothing… let’s all move on”) and now this. And I fear his behavior and complaining are going to get even worse if the championship slips further away from him. We might get a few more “eff you Charlies” (and more nothings being done about them as well, because for whatever reason Herr Vettel has enjoyed some pretty special treatment, by my reckoning, at least). He know’s they’ve had the package to take the whole shebang this year, & if he’s not completely delusional he probably knows he shoulders a lot of the blame for not getting it done. He’ll never admit it publicly, though.
        Vettel’s odd behavior this year is one of the main reasons I’m convinced the Ferrari is the overall best car this season. Early on in the season he was quiet but always smiling wryly & confidently. When asked, he always said he felt they had a good chance to win pretty much any race even when they didn’t qualify on pole (by my observations, the Ferrari has been the quicker car in race trim more often than not, so his confidence seems warranted). He hasn’t been moaning about needing to improve the car AT ALL!!! Quite the contrary! (We’ve not heard the Ferrari brass putting anybody on the spot for anything performance related either… just more calls to do a better job of things on the race day). Even when asked about that specifically, Seb’s always said he feels they have a great car & they just need to make use of the best strategy. Again, the way qualifying and the races have played out so far (as well as looking at the relative gaps between Lewis & Seb, as well as both of them relative to their teammates, & their teammates to each other) suggests that the cars have actually been pretty close, so that supports his view. And I think we can all admit that if anyone can be accused of not making the most of opportunities this year, it’s Ferrari (and Mercedes hasn’t exactly been shy about making the most of Ferrari’s misfortune). For sure the Merc seems to be the better qualifying package, but only in Hamilton’s hands… Vettel has beaten Bottas more often than not, & by his own admission felt like he could’ve snatched a few of those poles off Hamilton if he’d done his best. Kimi has come close on a few occasions where he’s made mistakes as well. So is it really that the Merc is qualy magic, or is it that the guy who’s currently the best qualifier of all time (by the numbers, not my opinion) is making the difference in cars that seem very evenly matched otherwise? I’m not even convinced the Merc is the most powerful anymore, because last race it was only the Ferrari engined cars of Vettel & Grosjean in the 330s (km/h), and Ferrari powered cars featured at or near the top of every session from FP1 right through to the race. And Ferrari definitely weren’t running low downforce based on their middle sector times.
        If Vettel loses the driver’s championship, he should blame himself first, but he won’t. Ferrari looks to have already lost the constructors championship… not sure exactly how the blame should be spread around on that one, but I feel like team Ferrari owns the vast majority of it, for suboptimal strategy & reliability issues. The biggest single hit they took though was due to both drivers taking themselves out in Singapore, & I feel that was mostly on Vettel… like I said, not sure how evenly to spread it all…

    14. I’m starting to get really bored with this guy’s actions… Hope you lose the World Championship, Seb.

    15. This guy must think he is talking to Steve Wonder

    16. Stroll: “Come on Vettel I thought you were better than this.”

      1. That IS Brilliant!

    17. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
      6th October 2017, 11:13

      So when he turned into Webber (Turkey 2010) it was Webber’s fault for not giving him enough room, but when the roles are reversed it’s Stoll’s fault. Not that I’m comparing the incidents as after a race has finished you’d expect drivers to be wary of slower cars collecting marbles. Even if Stroll didn’t drift slightly to the right Seb would have only missed him by half a foot. Why would you cut it that fine?

      1. I came here to reference this point. I’ve had very little respect for Vettel ever since he walked away from that making “crazy” hand gestures at his own team mate.

        Seems he’s getting older but not wiser.

      2. Webber must be bemused watching Sebs 2017 season unfold…

    18. I have seen the onboard footage from grosjean’s car. My thought is this is Stroll’s fault. He didn’t turn left where he is supposed to turn, but gone straight instead.

      1. Please go see the onboard from Stroll’s car.

        1. Yes I did. Stroll drifted to the right when he was supposed to turn left. It was really clear.

          1. You are very blind or lying… It is clear from strolls onboard that he was behaving in a completely expected manner. Vettel however cut straight across him.

            1. Please look at Stroll’s on-board again and see him looking left. Stroll was unaware that SV was coming around the outside, leaving him tons of room, but drifts slightly away from the apex toward SV, as he doesn’t know he is there.

            2. To me it’s simple, you are at the left handed corner, you need to turn left, not going straight and drift to the right. No?

            3. He was also well left of the line through the corner, and had he maintained his steering angle wouldn’t have even reached the line – drift rate that I estimate to be 6” per 25ft – so if Seb has stayed on line, bingo no accident

    19. I know people love getting on the bandwagon and Vettel bashing is the flavour of the month right now. I am not a Vettel, Stroll or even Hamilton Fan. I am not going to place blame of this incident on Stroll because it seriously isn’t his fault for the most part. But blaming Vettel for this is is just lazy reporting. This incident is more Strolls fault that it is Vettel’s.

      Stroll does drift wide in the corner and he does come into Vettel’s path. Have a look at he onboard and Stroll does drift wide. The truth of the matter here is that Vettel should have given Stroll more room. But also, Stroll should have been looking as well. If you are going to drift wide in a corner (even after the race), make sure no-one is there.

      I give this incident 70% Stroll and 30% Vettel. I know that goes against the English speaking population view, but that is only because a lot of people fair to be objective. If a driver drifts wide in a corner and it results in a crash, who is mostly at fault….

      1. Even if you put blame on Stroll, Vettel still comes off looking like an idiot for being so close to this ‘mad man’. On top of that, even if Stroll was to blame, he is still lying by claiming a change of direction which didn’t happen. Even you said so much..

        It is the lying that is dislikeable.

      2. Lennard Mascini (@)
        6th October 2017, 11:33

        According to the rules though, a driver who is 100% ahead in a turn has the corner and has the right to take whatever line he pleases. The driver that is behind is the one who can more easily see the other car and thus is the one that needs to take avoiding action.
        P.S. Don’t think its fully Seb’s fault, I think no penalty is the right decision, but I’m just tired of Seb whining about the incident after the stewards have already decided and it doesn’t harm him at all.

      3. To each his own view @mickharrold, but most of us can see clearly
        that Stroll was slowly driving home, close to the left side of the track
        and just beginning the normal response to the left bend immediately
        ahead of him. Instantly his car is struck on the right side by a red car
        travelling at a much greater speed and turning hard left as if Stroll and
        his Williams car simply did not exist. It’s not even possible to fault
        Stroll in any way, position, speed, awareness, deviation.

        The Senna comparison is glaringly valid. The only difference is Ayrton
        would quite regularly swear black was white and that the moon was
        made of cream cheese. Sebastian Vettel’ s stance differs only in scale
        of recurrence……so far, that is !

      4. You really need to watch the new onboard footage from strolls car… It shows a very different event than the one you describe and is exactly why people are so surprised by Vettels renewed attack on Stroll.

      5. @mickharrold I’m with you. If I disagree at all with your comment it’s to say that I think SV left LS plenty of room. Had LS been looking right, at his right hand mirror, rather than looking left and being unaware that SV was coming around him, he had plenty of room to keep heading toward the apex rather than away from it. It is glaringly obvious from Stroll’s onboard that he was only ever looking left, and didn’t make sure nobody was in the outside of him as he drifts away from the apex.

      6. I think 50/50 for me @mickharrold

        But I think you miss the point of the frustration among comments here. Vettel admits zero guilt, not even 30%. Sure Stroll doesn’t either but he doesn’t have a history of it yet and Vettel is the vastly experienced driver who should in theory be acting more mature. And no, it’s not to do with ‘english speaking’ bias or whatever else you’re presuming.

        Like it or not, I’m afraid Vettel is starting to appear like Maldonado this season.

      7. “Drifting Wide”

        Have I got the corner wrong? I seem to be the only person who knows that the line through that corner doesn’t touch the left hand side of the track, the off camber section. He was absurdly narrow in there, and at the rate he was drifting back towards the line would not have troubled the right half of the track at all. Excuse me, I’m going to go check the corner again, because surely I can’t be the only person who knows the line through that corner?

    20. Lennard Mascini (@)
      6th October 2017, 11:30

      Vettel is right. Stroll did change direction. He was in a left turn, so he turned left.

      1. Exactly wrong; Lance did not change direction, he kept going straight on a left turn, what Seb saw as a change.

        1. If Stroll was going straight, I’d suggest Williams take a seriously look at their steering column. Now he is going as much left as the corner is, but if you are suggesting that he should have… Might as well go watch slot car races.

          The only thing you can “blame” Stroll for, is that he did not see Vettel. Vettel however had ample to avoid a collision, and had no reason to be where he was. Technically he did nothing wrong, but really only has him self to blame for the accident.

          1. ……………strange. Williams have had trouble with steering columns for a while now!

    21. Seems Seb’s letting his idiot side back out again

    22. Great. Just switch the names “Vettel” and “Stroll” in this article and the explanation makes perfect sense.

    23. Can you imagine what Vettel will be like when Danny Ric starts at Ferrari?

      1. Just how Vettel was at Red Bull…
        People seem to have forgotten how Vettel has always been. Have you guys been watching long!?

      2. Same Danny Ric that is being hammered by Max V?

        1. No, I think he refers to the Ric that is hammering VER very very badly this season judging by the actual standings. The same Ric that did give VET a good good hammering over a complete season, when they where team mates at RB.

    24. It’s all about picking up marbles and losing them.

    25. Whilst I’m of the belief that Vettel could easily have avoided the collision by leaving more room and that the responsibility lies squarely on his shoulders, Stroll was on his way towards the outside of the track at the point of the collision and a he doesn’t need to turn to the right to make his car drift away from the apex.

      Watching the onboard footage from Stroll’s car you can see him checking out Grosjean in his left-hand mirror and he naturally starts preparing for him to come up the inside. At the same point Vettel decided to head towards the apex and the inevitable happened.

      Out of the two drivers there is only one who could have clearly avoided the situation by taking a less aggressive line, and by pointing the finger at Stroll he’s doing himself no favours, yet again.

      1. @sparkyamg A balanced approach; +1. Seb’s fault is, as in Singapore, considering that everything around him is as it should be. It’s risky to think Stroll will, as he should, see him and turn left normally. Procedurally, Seb doing the right thing; only taking it to the limit a bit too much.

      2. I just cannot agree that SV was taking some aggressive line. Stroll had tons of room to keep left if only he had bothered to look and see if anyone was coming around him before he drifts away from the apex.

        1. @robbie
          SV had loads of room to LS’s right, there was no need to be so close.
          Seb should have also noted that LS hadn’t spotted him and given him a wider berth. Seb had the best view of all and should have avoided th3 incident.

          To be still defending Seb is just pure ignorance of the facts.

          1. I just think SV was not so close. And I think to blame Seb for a Stroll indescretion of not paying attention is also showing ignorance. I agree Seb had the best view, and therefore had things in control until Stroll drifts over. It is expecting SV to be a mind reader, and is using hindsight, to suggest he should have left Lance more room than he already was. You are saying Seb should have expected Stroll to move right on a left hander.

            1. It’s not expecting him to be a mind reader, but an experienced and mature driver.

              LS did drift away from the kerb, but SV cut towards the kerb. Even if LS had maintained his position relative to the inside kerb, SV would have come pretty close to him. With loads of space on the outside, what was the point? He, the more experienced driver, put himself in a position where a crash was more likely by making an almost aggressive move towards the inside of the corner at a time when it didn’t even matter.

              I put the blame at 50/50ish, but as the more experienced driver SV should have known better.

    26. Stroll’s onboard says it all, Vettel is spoilt beyond belief these days.

      And I initially put it fully on Stroll when I had only seen the footage from Grosjeans car but that was Grosjean jerking left rather than Stroll jerking right clearly as his steering wheel is pointed left right until the moment of impact on the onboard.

      I don’t know why we’re surprised? It took him the best part of a week to admit any kind of blame for Baku!

      1. As far as I know, Vettel is still maintaining Lewis brake checked him in Baku, and no further contact took place

    27. I am starting to not like Vettel’s constant whining, screaming and blaming others. I have been patient. I like drivers with character but not if they keep blaming others for their own mistakes.

      1. Exactly, where I come from, blaming others for your mistakes is seen as a lack of character – and I understand it’s a different meaning of the word, but it’s just immature

    28. Unsurprising behaviour from Vettel. Not doing himself any favours

    29. Vettel must be joking.

    30. I agree, Stroll’s onboard says it all. He never looks right or in his right hand mirror and so was unaware that SV was coming around him. SV left him tons of room and if only Stroll had been aware of that as is his responsibility if he’s going to drift away from an apex, this could have been avoided. Stroll should have seen SV coming around him, and Stroll had plenty of room to keep heading toward the apex rather than away from it. It is not even a question of SV leaving him room, which he did anyway…the only room LS needed was toward the apex, and all he needed to do was keep moving toward that and not away from it and into SV, all the while only ever looking left.

        1. @robbie you’re dreaming. If you have an insurance claim who do you think is going to be found liable, you for minding your business or the guy behind who speeds up and drives into you, it’s really as simple as that. Vettel’s No Claims Bonus is long gone.

          1. @offdutyrockstar Whos dreaming? Why dont you give your insurance company a call.
            Turning right into a car without looking will give you no money att all. Driving into another cars rear side wont give you any money. Keeping your line and not doing something unexpected is the most important thing in driving.

            Sometimes i wonder if people here knows how to drive or how cars work at all.

            1. @rethla I wonder if you have an idea about basic physics let alone how to drive or how cars work. You’re conveniently leaving out the fact that Vettel came from BEHIND, how could Stroll turn right by turning his steering wheel left as his onboard clearly shows? I can only assume you a) havent seen the Williams onboard or b) have your red tinted spectacles on.

            2. Keeping your line and not doing something unexpected is the most important thing in driving.

              Which is precisely what Stroll did, thanks for making my point.

          2. Minding your business and drifting into the other guy, can be construed as not paying enough attention. Which is what Stroll did. He doesn’t not turn left, but he doesn’t turn more left at the apex and drifts away from it, which SV couldn’t have predicted. Stroll never looks to his right or in his right mirror. Would you admit that to your insurance company if you were in an accident? “I wasn’t looking.” Lance was caught off guard. Seb couldn’t have predicted he would be. Just as much as in hindsight some say Seb should have left more room, all that would have prevented this from happening is a turn of the head to the right by Stroll as he moves right relative to the apex. I bet he will have learned from this, especially when the fact is it is very common for cars to have varying speeds, albeit slow on the in lap, and to pass each other out in the marbles. And Seb will no doubt indeed give a wider berth or just not pass at all.

    31. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
      6th October 2017, 12:54

      Vettel is the most unhinged driver on the grid along with Kvyat. He absolutely needs to see a coach and therapist to help him.

      I have a feeling that his antics are not gaining him any fans at Maranello – after Kimi leaves, Marchionne can’t wait to pair him with either Verstappen or Ricciardo.

    32. Personally I saw this as a (post) racing incident, caused by both drivers letting their awareness slip and not allowing sufficient space.

      I view your opinion of road driving as a touch misguided!, if this incident was occurring on a road, Vettel as the approaching driver should be aware of the risks and hazards (e.g. not being seen by the driver of the car you want to pass) and ensured that the driver in front had seen his vehicle and was aware of his intention and then complete the pass with as little risk as possible (plenty of space).

      Road driving is not about whose right or wrong, or even liability, it’s about the mindset you take as a driver to avoid and minimise exposing yourself and your vehicle to risk in the first place!

      1. Comment in response to James’ post above, not the article!

    33. Its all getting a bit silly isn’t it!!
      Looking at both on boards I am not sure how anyone but a die hard Seb fan could not see its his fault 100%.
      Lance didn’t turn right but did drift off the apex a little, then Seb (I guess commanding WDC track space) just took him out. Also Lance has the ‘lead’ and doesn’t need to check his mirrors in that circumstance.

      I have found myself defending Vettel in ‘he is not a spoilt brat’ or ‘he didn’t win just because its a Newey car’ but starting to doubt my comments.

      Also those comparing Vettel’s behaviour to Senna I think he is more acting like his hero instead.

    34. I think Vettel did it on purpose because there was something fishy about his car, maybe not enough fuel left for a sample.

    35. Regardless of steering input or lack of it from Stroll, Vettel is the guy behind, he has a clear view of everything happening, Stroll has a pair of poxy mirrors. Vettel had a better chance of avoiding the collision than Stroll did.

      1. Exactly this.

        1. Indeed – anyone remotely involved in motorsport either as a racer or even a simple track day billy knows that the overtaker needs to do all the work – Stroll is not expected to bloody stare in his microscopic mirrors permanently otherwise how the hell can he drive safely ? Seb’s closing speed is beyond absurd : why such a delta ? Late for dinner ?
          I really like Seb but he has seriously lost the plot this year and I don’t really understand why.
          Hasn’t got any self-awareness and doesn’t he realise that he looks like a right moron ?

    36. Sigh Seb. Get out of your bubble, admit you make mistakes and get over it! Shows more and more how bit a mistake it was not to have him sit out a race and think about himself after (or rather DURING) Baku with his crazy antics.

    37. Sorry Vettel, you’re getting a bit old. Have you considered glasses? ;)

    38. I think Stroll brake tested him ;)

    39. I like it Seb, don’t change your stance, even if majority is on the hate bandwagon.

      1. the only thing missing is Vettel calling Stroll’s onboard Fake News.

    40. I’m surprised anyone is looking to blame Stroll for the incident. He doesn’t change his steering input. Yes it’s true that he didn’t hold a tight line to the corner, but it’s an in lap not an attempt at Q3. He doesn’t need an ideal line and there is still acres of track to the outside of him.

      It’s also a minute drift away from the inside of the track. It isn’t exactly like he’s veering wildly to the outside of the track like say Rosberg did on Hamilton during the Austria 2016. Even if Stroll had held a tight inside line Vettel would have been passing within a meter of Stroll. There’s no need to get that close on an in lap, it’s just asking for trouble.

      Stroll’s driving makes sense, Vettel’s doesn’t.

      1. Going by grojeans onboard that “minute” drift looks about a cars width!!

        1. @pantherjag

          It’s nothing like a cars width. Sky have a comprehensive analysis of it including the angle from Grosjean’s car. Grosjean quickly moving left makes it seem like Stroll goes a long way right, but the onboard from Stroll’s own car shows how tiny a drift it was.

          1. Stroll and Grosjean are line astern coming out if turn 4 and initially going into turn 5, suddenly Stroll drifts wide(right)while Grosjean takes normal line.

            By time contact is made strolls car is a cars width to the right of grojeans who is taking the expected line through corner

            1. That’s just not how it happened. Sky analysed it and it’s clear Grosjean’s car heading left exaggerates the perception Stroll wanders over to the right. But the onboard from Stroll shows it’s a small drift.


              The fact is Stroll was doing nothing out of the ordinary and actually tried to avoid Vettel when he was closing in on him. Vettel getting so close and taking no avoiding action though is bizarre.

    41. The stewards had GPS and telemetry data (as mentioned by @gt-racer yesterday) which gave them accurate information on the steering and positions of both cars. This is more accurate than just relying on videos which can be misleading. Their description of the incident refers to only slight movement by both cars, the problem was this happened simultaneously.

      Car 5 (VET) overtook Car 18 on the outside and in doing so, turned in slightly towards the apex of Turn 5. Simultaneously Car 18 was moving slight away from the apex. This resulted in contact between the left rear tyre of Car 5 and the right front tyre of Car 18.

      The onboards show that neither driver made any steering changes they both hold a steady line unfortunately their lines were converging to the same part of the track resulting in contact. Vettel could have been more cautious overtaking but equally Stroll should check for other cars before moving towards the marbles. Some have mentioned that the overtaking car has a responsibility to do so safely but a slow moving car also has a responsibility to keep out of the way (Stroll is going quite a bit slower than both Vettel and Grosjean).

      The fact that the stewards also stated that “even though the race has ended, caution still needs to be exercised by all drivers on the slow down lap” shows I think that they felt both drivers were not careful enough.

    42. Looking at all the evidence I have to place the majority of blame on Stroll.

      Going by Strolls onboard he is definitely starting to let his car drift wide(right) on the corner by not applying enough steering lock to take corner on normal line or trajectory. This is confirmed by grojeans onboard that shows stroll car drift right while grojeans car takes what looks like the normal line.

      Looking back at the race the normal racing line round that corner is too hug the kerb so for stroll to let his car drift wide is not what other drivers would be expecting. In other words had stroll taken the normal line or grojeans line no collision. Given that Vettel was sitting in strolls right from exit of turn 4 till impact(at least 4 seconds) he had plenty time to note his position. In conclusion he never noticed Vettel was their and was likely drifting wide to get pickup.

      Look at it this way 2 cars travelling down a dual carriage way side by side. As they go round a corner that requires 25 degrees steering angle the car on the inside only applies 15 degrees whilst outside applies the correct angle required to make the corner. The result is the car not applying correct angle drifts wide at corner and clips other car.

    43. says the guy that got “front-ended”

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