Max Verstappen says he doesn’t expect to receive a penalty after being filmed shoving Esteban Ocon three times after their collision in the Brazilian Grand Prix.
Ocon was given a 10-second stop-go penalty after knocking Verstappen, who was leading the race, into a spin while he was a lap behind. The Force India driver has called on the FIA to take action over Verstappen’s “violent” conduct towards him after the race.The pair have been summoned to the stewards regarding the incident. Verstappen defended his behaviour and said he is not interested in the views of his critics.
“I don’t care what those people say,” said Verstappen. “I’m a winner. You get taken out like that, to get a stupid response from his side as well, I was not happy about that.”
“We are all passionate about the sport,” he added. “It would be odd if I would shake his hand.”
Ocon was on softer tyres at the time he was trying to un-lap himself from Verstappen, who said he was looking after his rubber at the time.
“Once I got by Lewis [Hamilton] I was just saving my tyres to bring it to the end,” said Verstappen.
“[Ocon] just came out of the pit lane and of course he had the right to overtake me but of course you have to be cautious. The amount of risk he was taking I don’t think is correct. They gave him a penalty so I guess that says enough anyway.
“Of course afterwards you can easily say ‘oh Max you should have given room and blah, blah, blah’. But it’s not like that, we are racing and you don’t expect that a backmarker is taking you out.”
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Phylyp (@phylyp)
11th November 2018, 20:24
Yeah, that’s the attitude to win the stewards over. And Ocon has been practicing his puppy faced look in the meantime.
Green Flag (@greenflag)
11th November 2018, 20:43
The crash wasn’t Max’s fault but he took a needless risk. Ocon was no threat to Max’s win; he should have let him go. Smart drivers would know who to race and who not to race. Assaulting Ocon makes it worse. As someone said, Verstupid.
Milansson (@milansson)
11th November 2018, 20:58
Nah, not so sure @greenflag. I mean, maybe Ocon could have been faster than max for 2-3 laps, but the FI was slower in race pace than Red Bull by how much? second a lap? Max was roughly 2,5 seconds ahead of Hamilton at the time of the incident if I recall correctly, so Max’s tyres would have suffered and he would have passed him anyway pretty soon. I do get why Ocon tried to unlap himself, but I think the team should have told him not to do that – he was away from points at that time if i’m correct.
Green Flag (@greenflag)
11th November 2018, 21:08
I’m sure in retrospect Max would agree with me. If he had let Ocon go he’d be holding the winner’s trophy, one he deserved to hold.
koddamn (@gufdamm)
12th November 2018, 1:53
the team told him to unlap himself, he was doing what he was supposed to do and max drove into him because he “didn’t expect” him to be there and lost the win. who sounds like the one left with crap on their face? if you saw the replay before the incident the FI was ahead in sight of max, and alongside him through the first and leading into the second. Max turned in on the second corner and closed off the FI’s racing line completely. The only argument everyone is saying is that Ocon shouldn’t have been there, which isn’t a rule. Max was shortsighted in his decision to turn into the FI.
Gerry
12th November 2018, 4:40
+1
Jere (@jerejj)
12th November 2018, 9:49
@greenflag That applies to Ocon more in this case, though. He had no business or right to put himself into a position where a crash would be rather inevitable to happen anyway since he was a full lap down after having just gotten lapped. He should’ve backed off earlier, and thus, create distance to Max at T1 at the very latest if not on the long run down to that corner already.
Roy
12th November 2018, 16:29
Verstappen should have assault charges filed against him.
hahostolze (@hahostolze)
11th November 2018, 20:24
I heard (misheard?) it as ‘I’m thewinner. Small change, big difference. This is just petulant. If he was defending the fact that he lost this particular race, then it would have made sense to say ‘the winner’. ‘A winner’… Just sounds immune from criticism. Poor.
Hank Dussen
11th November 2018, 20:37
Well as petulant as it sounds, he sure is a winner and this time victory was taken from him by a move that one could brand petulant as well.
Who likes PR robots? Well, I don’t and my guess is many other viewers couldn’t wait to see Max “sharing his thoughts” with Ocon.
Bobby (@f1bobby)
11th November 2018, 21:45
+2
Estesark (@estesark)
11th November 2018, 23:30
False dichotomy. There is a lot of middle ground between being a “PR robot” and shoving a fellow driver.
koddamn (@gufdamm)
12th November 2018, 1:56
Max’s fans are extremely immature. A winner manages his race and doesn’t throw it all away trying to win a corner. Max is a child. If i were a fan of max I wouldn’t want him “sharing his thoughts” in a manner which could compromise his success in F1.
Hank Dussen
12th November 2018, 6:49
Did you mean: “shoving your car in the race leaders car”?
But seriously, shoving like Max did… it was like kttens playing in a bowl of cotton.
JimBim
12th November 2018, 4:48
Yeah, yeah, you don’t like PR robots until someone hits Hamilton, then everything goes out the window. One shudders to think what would’ve happened if Vettel went and pushed Verstappen after their incident in China. Ocon’s pro-MB on track should be thoroughly punished, but Verstappen can’t go pushing people around. Also, you’re a winner only when you cross the line first. All else is just hot air.
Hank Dussen
12th November 2018, 6:43
If someone hits Hamilton, I still don’t like PR robots.
And rest assured: Max crossed the line first many, many times.
MacLeod (@macleod)
12th November 2018, 7:57
He said i am the winner (of this race) but someone took him out in this lines.
But the smirk of Ocon tells it all and that triggered the shoving.
Zandvoort
11th November 2018, 20:41
VER showed once again he is already the best of them all.
No one can stop him.
I was at Interlagos today.
The brasilians love him.
He declassed the ferraris and hamilton today.
Ocon should be happy VER didnt knock him out and only pushed him. What a idiot is Ocon.
Jos Verstappen did something similiar at Interlagos taking the leader Monaya out I think.
Niefer (@niefer)
11th November 2018, 21:06
+1
Mark (@mrcento)
11th November 2018, 22:41
I don’t think it was mean’t like that.
I read it as more “I’m a winner” as in “I race to win, i want to win, of course i’m not going to be happy when i don’t win, especially when i feel a certain win has been taken away from me by someone else”
Which is a perfectly fair comment.
grat
11th November 2018, 23:09
Unfortunately, it sounded like the Charlie Sheen defense.
Effwon (@effwon)
12th November 2018, 16:02
“I’m an F-18, bro. And I will destroy you in the air. I will deploy my ordinance to the ground.”
Debapriya Deb (@debapriya-deb)
11th November 2018, 20:28
Disgusting attitude from Max! I am a big fan of his driving abilities, but his off the track behavior is acting as a detterant in my humble attempts at ‘liking’ him. I am sure I’m not alone facing this dilemma.
Zandvoort
11th November 2018, 20:43
Not disgusting at all.
He just pushed him a couple times, dont cry everyone these are men.
What Ocon did was disgusting.
The brasilians all booed him out, I was eight there at stand F.
They all love Verstappen.
Nelson Howard (@thenelsyshow)
12th November 2018, 1:17
I really hate one-eyed Verstappen fans. They refuse to accept any criticism of him whatsoever. Personally, I love his attack on track and his willingness to win, but off-track behaviour like this is not acceptable and is losing my respect for him. You can give Ocon a piece of your mind, go for it, but there is no way you can defend him for giving Ocon a front-on shove numerous times. I like Verstappen as a driver, but not as a person and I think his fans need to realise that he is far from perfect yet.
koddamn (@gufdamm)
12th November 2018, 1:59
Ocon racing his race and being cut off by a silly Max is disgusting. But Max shoving Ocon after the race isn’t. Your a child Zandvoort.
MacLeod (@macleod)
12th November 2018, 8:04
Ocon was the one in the wrong that is clear as he was punished for it. But Max shoving Ocon (i could understand seeing Ocon smirk) he shouldn’t did that luckly (for Ocon) he didn’t smash his helm on Ocon face (which i expected) so he was more controled. (More then his father)
BasCB (@bascb)
11th November 2018, 20:29
Sure, you don’t expect them to do that, and it makes sense that Verstappen didn’t, Brundle said as much during the commentary today.
On the other hand, Hamilton said it in the cooldown room – Max was the driver with more to lose, so it would have been wiser to give more room – (I’d love it if Seb Vettel learned that one as well).
Dirk (@dizzy)
11th November 2018, 20:36
Ofcourse Hamilton said that. That’s called politics. Hamilton knows that Max is comming. He’ll be a serious contestor for the title in 2019. Therefore Lewis urges Max to be more reluctant in his moves.
Maarten
11th November 2018, 20:46
Bear in mind that Hamilton (probably) didn’t see the footage. There are blue flags for a reason; they can overtake the back-markers without them, but with the flags they don’t have to ruin the tires to overtake someone who is 10 places behind you. So in my opinion “giving him more room” was not necessary here. Maybe Hamilton thought they were wheel to wheel and Max pushed him off track, while actually he was in front and Ocon would get the penalty even if it was an overtake for position.
Niefer (@niefer)
11th November 2018, 20:56
@bascb Hamilton is spot on. The leader has to nurse his victory. If I’m not mistaken, Max was never at that position, hence the outcome.
As for Vettel, he does not think when he wears red.
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
11th November 2018, 21:08
@bascb Lewis was spot on. I remember Max saying exactly the same thing after Singapore 2017, that Vettel had a lot at stake and should’ve been more careful. Same here.
But Ocon’s move was outrageous anyway. Even while battling for position I don’t think he’d have made it.
I don’t expect Verstappen to shake hands with him right after the race, but a bit more control would come in handy. But remember, even the best get it loose. Reminded me of Schumacher going to the McLaren garage to punch Coulthard after their incident in Spa 1998.
mystic one (@mysticus)
11th November 2018, 21:17
Senna went to Schumi too… once schumi taken out senna once… i dont remember senna punched schumi…
mystic one (@mysticus)
11th November 2018, 21:24
Oh here is the video of senna pushing and punching schumi for 92 magny cours accident? oh wait…
regs (@regs)
11th November 2018, 21:54
Indeed. Senna was calm and respectful. He was giving Schumacher a lecture, not a punch with insults.
While Verstappen defends his right to be uncultured villager. His father isn’t much difference. Well, apples don’t fall far from the tree.
Nick (@nick101)
11th November 2018, 21:21
There was absolutely nothing outrageous about Ocons move at all. That overtaking move has been made by countless drivers at that corner countless times in the past. The only time there’s a problem is when the inside driver we runs wide into the outside driver (which didn’t happen here) or when the outside driver cuts across to the apex and doesn’t give the driver on the inside room, which is exactly what happened here.
This was Verstappens fault 100%. Whether Ocon was a lap or 2 down is totally and utterly irrelevant. The regulations say that you cannot force a driver off the track and you cannot crowd a driver who is alongside. It makes no allowance or difference whether that car is a lap down or not.
Verstappen should have been penalised for this and should be booted out of the championship for his assault on Ocon. Ocon and Force India should also call the police and have Verstappens brought up on charges of assault. It’s all on film.
Gerry
12th November 2018, 4:51
Nick, my sentiments exactly! 👍
Kendo
12th November 2018, 9:04
The comments are absolutely spot on. Max behaves like a petulant child when things don’t go his way. Perhaps next years rules might include a ban on passing Max. Please – they are there to race – give him space and don’t turn in!
Rockgod (@rockgod)
11th November 2018, 20:36
Does anyone with F1 TV subscription have a link to the unbleeped version of radio message from Verstappen after the race?
René (@)
11th November 2018, 21:07
https://mobile.twitter.com/Insidef1/status/1061722740967624704
Rockgod (@rockgod)
12th November 2018, 6:32
Thank you
grat
11th November 2018, 23:12
Which if I were the stewards, I would consider that evidence of premeditation, and dropped the hammer on him much harder.
He might be a fantastic driver, but when he acts like this, he comes across as a spoiled brat.
@BoysFromTheDwarf (@boysfromthedwarf)
11th November 2018, 20:39
Not today sunshine…
JohnH (@johnrkh)
11th November 2018, 20:42
So up until this race Verstappen has really improved his driveing and it has showed in the results. But it all just fell apart when another driver dared to race him. Not only did he show poor judgment on track but off track he showed that he lets his emotions rule his actions, not the traits af a future WDC. I’m sure Jos Verstappen and Helmet Marko will be cheering him on, but neither of them ever got to the top.
If Max Verstappen can break free of the three horsman of the apocalypse (Jos, Marko and Horner) and get some proper advise on how to handle himself on track and off. He likely will be a WDC and one of the best drivers of his era.
GnosticBrian (@gnosticbrian)
11th November 2018, 21:14
Did a lapped Jos’s father deprive Montoya of a win at this very circuit by running into him?
DaveW (@dmw)
11th November 2018, 21:20
Yes. I recall watching the race live, and I recall thinking then as I do now that Montoya was foolish to pull right back in front of Verstappen to preserve his line for the Subido corner which I think surprised or unsighted Verstappen in his braking. When you are winning, be circumspect.
Frasier (@frasier)
12th November 2018, 15:08
@dmw I too recall watching that race and as a Montoya fan, being incensed at Ves snr who defended his crash in the manner you describe. At the time footage available was side-on to the incident and it looked plausible. But watch the C4 footage at the end of the 2018 highlights show and you’ll see that it was Verstappen that moved across into Montoya’s slipstream, not the other way around.
Verstappen jnr is shaping up to be just like his dad in so many ways. Sadly, he’s likely to be hanging around for far longer.
Dom (@3dom)
11th November 2018, 21:21
Think this is just the petulance of youth tbf @johnrkh
Part of the reason Lewis has the attitude he has is he had to gain the experience, sometimes the hard way (see 2011). I get the feeling Max will learn. Even tho he’s yet to endear himself to me, his fiery personality is definitely interesting to have in the paddock and I’d be surprised if he didn’t end up a multiple world champ.
Mick
11th November 2018, 20:44
Depends on what you call a winner Max.
You’ve been bullying (hate that term but it fits here) others since you’ve been in F1.
Whether carelessly dive bombing while passing or running others off the track when attempting to pass him, he’s done it many times.
Today he got pushed back and I’d be willing to bet EVERY driver in the paddock is happy because of it.
It shouldn’t have been a penalty but a racing incident.
Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
11th November 2018, 20:51
Ocon’s move in the Senna S was just the kind Verstappen got villified for…
He think he saw a space in the hairpin in China, and suddenly he was F1’s all time biggest problem. Ocon was badly overambition in this move…
Also, when it comes to running others of the track, vettel and Magnussen are just the same, if not worse.
Mick
11th November 2018, 21:20
When it’s all said and done, Max would have done the same to him.
Whether in Mexico where he lost the pole to RIC or today when his race was compromised because of Ocon’s move, he has to learn self control or his career will go south in a hurry.
Things may get tougher next year if Honda continues its slow path towards the front? Then what?
If I’m Marko, I would demand Max see a psychologist to try to break the attitude he apparently learned from his father.
JeffreyJ
11th November 2018, 22:19
What are you guys talking about?!
Max has put his elbow’s out in wheel to wheel racing, yes. He’s crossed lines on several occasions and he made flat-out mistakes, absolutely… But all that happened in wheel to wheel combat, for a position. Today they weren’t racing for position. OCON WAS A LAP DOWN!
koddamn (@gufdamm)
12th November 2018, 2:10
A Driver has to know when to concede even if he is right, for the bigger picture. Whether Ocon is right or not. Max wasn’t racing him, and had the most to lose. Its better to be right, but concede, and win than right, headstrong, and lose. Why are you defending the right, headstrong, and lose side of the argument? As Lewis said all max had to do was leave space. Max has yet to find the humility to give in. he gave up the win to win a corner. Max knew if he turned in and Ocon was still where he was expecting him to be, he would crash, and he still did what he did. A WDC would have avoided that situation. Max looks really silly trying to blame this failure on someone else when a simple decision could have made all the difference. Blaming Ocon, instead of saying I could have avoided him, is very bad for his future racing.
JK
11th November 2018, 21:10
Ocon was not racing for points. He was penalised for pushing out the race leader. Max had been robbed.
Nick (@nick101)
11th November 2018, 21:34
Verstappens was robbed because of his own stupidity. The collision was caused by Verstappen failing to give another car the required room. Verstappens should be penalised.
Ocon
12th November 2018, 1:24
Every car in the race is racing for position. From 1st to last they all count towards the WDC.
anon
11th November 2018, 20:44
Verstappen was the best driver today, he was dominant, Hamilton had no answers.
Ocon’s taken that from him.
Max was the moral victor. We all know that.
I can’t recall a backmarker racing a race leader so hard to unlap himself.
After Verstappen hits the apex of turn 1 well in front of Ocon, Verstappen can only assume that he’ll give up and follow him through turn 2. You can’t expect a race leader to start looking in his mirrors worrying about whether a backmarker a lap down will have a second bite.
Ocon
12th November 2018, 1:23
Were you watching a different race?
SM
12th November 2018, 1:57
Ocon was at turn 1 before if not alongside verstappen. There was no ‘well in front’
Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
11th November 2018, 20:45
I understand him getting pushy, but this attitude is never gonna do him any favours.
hahostolze (@hahostolze)
11th November 2018, 20:46
Anyway, they just shook hands, storm in a teacup stuff. We all forget that yesterday Hamilton called something ‘disrespectful’. Heat of the moment stuff.
Green Flag (@greenflag)
11th November 2018, 20:49
Calling someone “disrespectful” is very different from physically assaulting someone.
hahostolze (@hahostolze)
11th November 2018, 20:53
Giving a few pushed indicating displeasure is also very different from a physical assault. Glad we’re all keeping perspective here.
Green Flag (@greenflag)
11th November 2018, 20:56
Any unwanted pushing is assault. Ask any lawyer.
petebaldwin (@)
11th November 2018, 20:59
Can you point to a case that’s sets the president where someone was found guilty of “assault” for a similar action?
hahostolze (@hahostolze)
11th November 2018, 21:05
@greenflag. Nice try. I am a lawyer.
Green Flag (@greenflag)
11th November 2018, 21:11
hahostolze: Sure you are, and I’m the Pope.
hahostolze (@hahostolze)
11th November 2018, 21:22
@greenflag not that I have to prove myself to you, but I’ve literally referred to myself as such on previous unrelated topics. Again, nice try?
GnosticBrian (@gnosticbrian)
11th November 2018, 21:25
In England and Wales, an assault is the act of inflicting physical harm or unwanted physical contact upon a person. Traditionally, common law legal systems had separate definitions for assault and battery. When this distinction is observed, battery refers to the actual bodily contact, whereas assault refers to a credible threat or attempt to cause battery.
Assaults can vary greatly in severity. In England and Wales, it can be charged as either common assault, assault occasioning actual bodily harm (ABH) or grievous bodily harm (GBH).
GnosticBrian (@gnosticbrian)
11th November 2018, 21:26
In England and Wales, an assault is the act of inflicting physical harm or unwanted physical contact upon a person. Traditionally, common law legal systems had separate definitions for assault and battery. When this distinction is observed, battery refers to the actual bodily contact, whereas assault refers to a credible threat or attempt to cause battery.
Assaults can vary greatly in severity. In England and Wales, it can be charged as either common assault, assault occasioning actual bodily harm (ABH) or grievous bodily harm (GBH).
DaveW (@dmw)
11th November 2018, 21:33
I’m am also a (common law) lawyer (and not the Pope) and and shoving someone can be a tortious action called assault, depending on the jurisdiction. It may also be called “battery,” (“assault” is sometimes the threat of some tortious contact) but makes no difference, because it may create a legal liability, if also giving rise to injury, etc. It may be some flavor of crime, depending on what’s in the code where you shoved someone. I know that the civilian lawyers will have a different framework, but I’m sure that, say, a Rechtsanwalt/in can find an analogous violation in the BGB.
Ocon
12th November 2018, 1:29
@hahostolze – You’ve represented yourself as a corporate lawyer previously. Are you a criminal lawyer? If so, what jurisdiction?
petebaldwin (@)
11th November 2018, 20:57
Calling a shove an “assault” is very snowflakeish…..
Niefer (@niefer)
11th November 2018, 21:03
Modern times.
Tom
11th November 2018, 21:10
Sure you’re a lawyer.. haha ahh the internet when everyone can be anyone :)
Niefer (@niefer)
11th November 2018, 21:26
I am sorry, but haholstoze isn’t here right now. Would you like to leave a message? Go uphead!
Bobby (@f1bobby)
11th November 2018, 21:48
Too right.
John H (@john-h)
11th November 2018, 20:47
I hope Verstappen doesn’t get a penalty for pushing someone after the race has finished. It was poor behaviour I know, but just let Ocon sort it out, he doesn’t need to tell his daddy. Obviously we don’t want Nascar here, but tbh a bit of beef between drivers is not always a bad thing.
Niefer (@niefer)
11th November 2018, 20:49
Way I see it, all this fuss is only because a backmarker took him out. Because, as far as the (racing) incident goes, it was Verstappen’s fault. I don’t get that penalty for Ocon apart for the need of response to the odd outcome.
Max drove into Ocon. He knew he was alongside, what the heck was he thinking? That he’d get intangible? Ocon being a backmarker does not change physics.
As for the red mist, it happens. But honestly, his behaviour was more of a badboy than of an outraged guy firing from the hip. Therefore, he got lucky Ocon hadn’t bashed his helmet on him, opting for the whiny role. Both lame postures.
A reprimand for Max is more than fit, and let’s move on.
JeroenF1
11th November 2018, 21:02
To be fair and take previous similar incidents in mind, Ocon wasn’t ahead and should have lifted. Taken into account he was a backmarker (not racing for positionering, only tot unlap himself), he should have been more carefull. Ver should have expected Ocon to not be there. I think, given the fact Ocon received the penalty, Ocon was at fault and Verstappen isn’t to blame at all.
Niefer (@niefer)
12th November 2018, 15:57
I think he was careful enough: he didn’t try anything in the middle apart from standing at his line. Max acts like Ocon wasn’t there. That’s plain stupid for a leader, he didn’t act safe. No wonder Hamilton gave him a little lecture about it. But I suppose it’s fair: it was the first time Max was in the position of having to nurse a victory.
JeffreyJ
11th November 2018, 22:35
Agreed, but that’s only 100% true when you are talking from the assumption that Ocon was fighting for a position, which he was not. Ocon was a lap down and simply should have lifted to make way for the race leader. Unlapping yourself is allowed, but battling the race leader to un-lap yourself and hinder the race-leader’s race (let alone spinning him around) is totally pointless. That is why Ocon got the heaviest in-race penalty possible bar disqualification (a 10sec. stop-go)
Max shouldn’t have pushed him afterwards (technically it’s assault), but Ocon sure didn’t help things by laughing in Max’ face. That’s just taunting and to be fair, I´m not sure how I would have reacted in Max place.
Niefer (@niefer)
12th November 2018, 15:51
The thing is, Ocon did not battle Max. He was just at his line. Max turns into him, having him alongside. For all I know, it’s the leader who stupidly fought a backmarker for position.
Markos
11th November 2018, 20:52
Karma will punish Ocon in 2019 – and perhaps beyond.
DaveW (@dmw)
11th November 2018, 21:18
Is Karma a FIA race steward or just a name for some superstitious nonsense.
Maho Ivan (@mahoivan)
12th November 2018, 0:26
Karma is the name of Ocon’s manager who didn’t get a seat for 2019 xD
Mike
11th November 2018, 21:24
Karma punished Max today and he has a lot more coming if there is any justice.
Yaru
12th November 2018, 8:09
More like karma punished Max today for the way he has acted in the past.
Loen (@loen)
11th November 2018, 20:55
What a pity a young guy with such skill and ability
thinks it’s cool to make noises like a complete no-brainer.
Max lad….you make enemies on the way to the top
you really are going to feel the steel toe-cap boots
in the groin on the way down. And with your
current attitude that’s a cast-iron certainty.
You have a singular talent that very few others
possess……don’t throw it all away with language
that could damage you for life.
SpaFrancorchamps (@spafrancorchamps)
11th November 2018, 21:16
It’s inhis genes. Just like his father, hot tempered and loose hands.
Henry
11th November 2018, 21:27
Very well put.
I don’t think he will be able to keep it together – too much like his father.
David BR (@david-br)
11th November 2018, 20:55
Max this season pushed Hamilton off track as he barged past and picked up a puncture, cut across as Vettel was trying to pass in Suzuka (which I think he was entitled to do) and Vettel ended up spinning, cut across Ocon’s path today and they both ended up damaged. 3 situations in which he was ahead but not entirely clear and decided to make a statement anyway that it was ‘his’ corner. It’s a great attitude for spectators to watch, but not so great if you want to win races apparently. After the Vettel collision in Japan he pointed out that Vettel had much more to lose – implying he wasn’t going to back out and it’s Vettel’s problem if they collided. Fair enough. But Ocon put him in the Vettel position today and he can’t really just assume that Ocon decide to back down when he probably wouldn’t.
Danku
11th November 2018, 23:34
Try again and now use the words: “racing for a position”
Max had pulles some stupid moves this season, but those cannot be compared to what ocon did today.
montreal95 (@montreal95)
11th November 2018, 23:39
@david-br What’s allowed when you’re fighting for position is not allowed when you are a backmarker unlapping yourself. That’s the key point here. As a backmarker you should take extra extra care not to hinder the leader while unlapping and definitely not dive to the inside of the corner like Ocon has done
Velocityboy (@velocityboy)
11th November 2018, 20:58
So was that Max being cautious or is he saying caution is only for other drivers? Given that Max had much more to lose than Ocon, it would seem quite straight forward that Max should have been the cautious one.
Dave
11th November 2018, 21:29
Exactly… but since he is a talented driver he gets benefit of the doubt.
Michael
11th November 2018, 20:58
@niefer
This is between a backmarker and the race leader, they are not equal at that stage of the race.
Backmarkers should not race leaders as they are being lapped.
if they were just fighting for positions, Max had given some more room, but they were not fighting.
You can see from the onboard footage that VES was clearly in front of OCO before turn 2 and that makes OCO the one to blame here, but as said earlier, this is not even applicable as VES en OCO were not in the same round anyway
Niefer (@niefer)
12th November 2018, 15:46
Michael, you are right: a backmarker is not supposed to fight a lapping car.
However, Ocon was unlapping himself instead of being lapped. Therefore, it was Verstappen who fought him for position.
The key factor here is that Senna S has plenty of space for 2 cars. Just before the apex, we can clearly see that they are alongside (The RedBull has the nose ahead, but they’re still alongside), and it’s Max who turns in without checking the mirrors. Ocon is not forcing anything, he’s just at his line.
I really fail to see what Ocon should’ve done different since he is allowed to unlap himself.
I know, it was a stupid incident, but I still see it as a racing incident.
Johan Tolemans
11th November 2018, 21:04
This pantomime is all very entertaining until someone does their head in. Violence begets violence.
Frank
11th November 2018, 21:04
It seems to me as if the people who utter the phrase “I am a winner”, typically exhibit a lack of emotional constraint, which prevents them from actually winning.
If you are a winner, you behave in a way that optimizes your chances.
Just wanted to add that.
Jimmi Cynic (@jimmi-cynic)
11th November 2018, 21:21
Good point, Frank. But what Max probably meant to say was: “I am a whiner – hear me moan!”.
DaveW (@dmw)
11th November 2018, 21:15
“What begins in anger ends in shame.”
I have no idea why Ocon has a penalty. Was he allowed to pass? Yes. Did he have track position on the inside of a corner? Yes. Did Verstappen close the door on him and hit him? Yes. All of the discussion about whether he should have passed because of the posture of his race or whatever became irrelevant when he nosed ahead into T1. It just seems that the Stewards have invented a rule that getting hit by another car is a foul if you are unlapping yourself.
As for Verstappen, he should have let him go. His team should have told him, Ocon is trying to make up time on his fresh tires, he’s past Hamilton and he’s coming up, let him go. No amount of penalties, calumny, and fisticuffs is going to get you a win if you hit another car and lose the race.
Kelvin (@kelvin38)
11th November 2018, 21:38
In other words. If you are driving as a lapped driver, you are free to take your position back.
How ever you are not allowed to fight for it. If he had passed him with no effort, it would have been different.
Ocon should have backed completly off after turn one to avoid penalty.
Patrick (@anunaki)
11th November 2018, 21:16
Ocon is lucky he didn’t punch him in the face. I know I would.
Effwon (@effwon)
12th November 2018, 16:16
Mark (@blueruck)
11th November 2018, 21:24
Max makes some bold passes, he is aggressive.
To be great, he needs to learn when to be bold and when to make a measured move. At that corner with Ocon was not the time to be bold. He had the entire field covered today and Ocon would of come under his power in short order.
I haven’t seen the after race video yet, but I bet Max will get a little slap on the wrist so they don’t allow that behavior to get a green light.
Todfod (@todfod)
11th November 2018, 21:28
Watching Max in F1 has been a rollercoaster. On the track, there are occasions where he displays unmatched driving skill, followed by periods of absolutely immature driving tactics. Off the track, his attitude seems arrogant and stubborn at most times, but at the same time he’s the exact opposite of the media friendly cliche personality that is today’s F1 driver.
Today, I just felt extremely gutted for him losing the win. Some of the most brilliant driving and controlled overtakes got him from P5 to P1, just to lose the win in the most unexpected manner. Personally, I thought Ocon had no business trying to unlap himself from the race leader, and least of all, doing it at turn 2 after Max had already defended his attack in turn 1. It was just unexplainable stupidity from Ocon on the track.
The behaviour at the driver weigh-ins though… was a different story. There is no way Max should have resorted to physical violence in his argument with Ocon. Heck, Max has ruined a lot of driver’s races through his own dicey racing tactics. Can you imagine Vettel pushing Max after he took him out in China? There is a level of respect that F1 drivers have with each other, and Verstappen crossed the line with his behaviour.
I can understand that it was a heat of the moment thing, but Verstappen needs to learn how to keep a cool head both on and off the track.
David BR (@david-br)
11th November 2018, 21:48
@todfod I suspect it’s the same issue. A lot of Verstappen’s on track behaviour is a thinly veiled attitude that he’s a far better driver and everyone should back down when he’s coming past. I actually kind of like that bolshie arrogance, as you say, it’s a rollercoaster to watch, and I also think he is an exceptional talent. But even the best have to accept losing out sometimes. A few times this season he’s been unjustly blamed, but a few times he’s also been completely in the wrong and not accepted it (the worst being shoving Raikkonen off track when he had no business not waiting to rejoin the track the safely). So unless he tames that attitude, it’ll just be a case of him having to deal with the collateral that comes his way – including other drivers giving him the same lack of respect he shows them.
Califormula1fan
11th November 2018, 21:34
Contrary to what many here are writing about restraint; emotion and a passion for competition are not signs of immaturity or mental weakness. A gracious loser is still a loser, a belligerent winner is still a winner. Verstappen knows who he is racing; Hamilton, Vettel, Ricciardo will all be gone when Verstappen is racing for a WDC. He will most likely be facing Ocon in a Mercedes and LeClerc in a Ferrari while they chase the WDC season after season. There aren’t enough years for them all to win eight, so they better start racing today. I think Max knows exactly what he is doing. He wants to send a message: “I’m a crazy passionate and violent racer; give me room.” Only time will tell, but I doubt these other young guys are intimidated by the histrionics. They are both possibly far better drivers than Verstappen, and Max is frustrated because he is afraid it’s true.
AMG44 (@amg44)
11th November 2018, 21:53
MAXimum VERSTubborn
JohnH (@johnrkh)
11th November 2018, 21:57
It was interesting that on the feed I was watching the commentators where talking about how Hamilton and Vettel did not put up to much of a fight when Verstappen passed them. They went on to imply that Verstappen has a reputation and that at this point in the championship it’s easier the let him pass than risk in incident.
He certainly has instilled fear if not respect in his fellow drivers.
I think karma will be on the menu next yr, and it will be called Honda :))
Ed Marques (@edmarques)
11th November 2018, 22:07
Petulant child. Ocon made a mistake? Yes he did. But Max should have left more room.
Lewis gave him a lecture on the waiting room, he should carefully listen to that, but we all know he won’t.
Viper-au (@viper-au)
11th November 2018, 22:11
Petulant little child.
nase
11th November 2018, 22:31
z18braz
David
11th November 2018, 22:47
I think Verstappen might have won that if he just got straight back up to speed after the collision instead of wanting to flip the bird at Ocon.
Pjotr (@pietkoster)
11th November 2018, 22:56
This will not go unpunished. Ocon is now in the blackbook of the Verstappens. What Ocon did is like soccerplayers do. Trying, by overreacting, to get the referee to give your opponend a yellow card. Payback wil be somewere in the future and it is going to hurt. F1 just became a little bit unsafer.
Neiana (@neiana)
11th November 2018, 23:33
@pietkoster Max has made it unsafe, just like Maldonado and Grosjean before…
Lenny (@leonardodicappucino)
11th November 2018, 22:56
A lot of people are saying “Verstappen should have left more room.” When you look at it though, he leaves no room, and why? Because he doesn’t expect a back-marker to divebomb him into turn 2. He thought: okay, Ocon wanted to unlap himself, tried to go around the outside, and didn’t make it stick. It wasn’t a decision of deciding not to leave room for a car because they are a lapped car, it was a case of regarding the possibility of Ocon attempting to make the overtake given the circumstances was so ridiculously small that he disregarded it. Nevertheless, although I do understand his frustration at Ocon, he should have been able to control himself and not escalate to a physical altercation.
Tony (@tony667)
11th November 2018, 23:07
True (headline).
Hamilton and Verstappen (and maybe Leclerc) are in F1 to win, the others just to compete. Bring on 2019!
Lore
12th November 2018, 0:22
Verstappen is a fast and very aggressive driver but that aggression is not balanced and yet again his emotional instability and lack of self control bit him back both in the race and afterwards. The arrogance is staggering but so is the anger. Despite how risky Ocons move was, max stupidly whilst knowing he was there chose to fight him. He clearly doesn’t learn from his mistakes and his fathers win at all costs conditioning has produced a very fast but emotionally deficient young man. This unbalanced approach if left unchecked will surely create more conflicts on track. he’s a flawed driver.
Nathan Builder (@nathanbuilder)
12th November 2018, 0:41
No, you’re a loser, and ableist to boot. Sod off.
BNK racing
12th November 2018, 0:56
Verstappen is going to be an unbearable WDC one day. The arrogance after his first title will make you want to punch him in the face every time he talks. Once he smooths out his impulses on the track and improves his racing intellect, Give him a dominant car and he will walk away with multiple titles just as Hamilton and Vettel have done.
Mph
12th November 2018, 1:08
Verstappen has caused so much grief to other drivers, he lost this one, just good Karma
Yaru
12th November 2018, 8:03
Verstappen is fully justified to be angry but come on you don’t assault the dude in person for it. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Fudge Kobayashi (@)
12th November 2018, 10:35
What a brat.
For an example of how a real winner, champion and credit to the sport and his team acts in such a situation, I present exhibit A: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/111583/hamilton-baffled-by-bottas-accident
Picasso 1.9D FTW (@picasso-19d-ftw)
12th November 2018, 12:37
my feeling is, the rules on blue flags and unlapping are in direct contradiction and this kind of thing is a result. Because Ocon could legitimately unlap himself but then be shown blue flags. To me this means that the unlapping (in this case, out of the points) driver needs to show some patience and find out if it looks like the lead driver is going to let them get away, because otherwise they may immediately have to give the place back. Essentially, it is largely in the gift of the lead driver whether the unlapping will stick or not. That’s not about the rules, it’s about a driver taking a common-sense approach to the rules; given that, OCO should have never been so pushy. But equally the suggestion that VER had the most to lose is a very valid point, and it’s a shame he misses it. But my main take-away is that someone needs to figure out a way of dealing with this contradiction between unlapping and blue-flags. Perhaps….no blue flags?
As for Max’s physical attack, however mild it may have been someone always goes down in my estimation when they resort to violence and I’m very sorry to have seen it.
Mauro (@)
12th November 2018, 13:37
You are a winner and a @$$hole.
It does not take what a brilliant driver you are, but you need to control your temper…so you end up being a “father like son”, knowing your dad’s violent record outside the race track….
Merovinjyen (@merovinyen)
12th November 2018, 20:43
If Lewis was to behave in the way that Verstapen does, those Sky Commentators would eat him alive.
And so would the media.