Red Bull place seven junior drivers in Formula 2 and Formula 3

30 comments on “Red Bull place seven junior drivers in Formula 2 and Formula 3”

1. 

   stevenholmes
   16th January 2021, 0:41

   Bascb

   I looked into the data on the BMW power plant and found data that supports both of our beliefs about the engines true power.
   Six sites gave very different data. From 1,500hp max boost, 1,400hp and 1,300hp from two additional sources.
   Another claimed 1,230hp at 5.1 boost and the final one I looked at showed the power in race trim at 983hp.
   So the 1500hp I stood tall on and was the basis for the article and photos in GPI 34 years ago. At the time the news of Piquets new ride with 1,500hp was a stunner in the paddock and the clever designed car by Gordon Murray built such a great looking Grand Prix car that did have one major issue. As all teams began to go coke bottle shaped for Max ground effects as rules called for. The unique Brabham failed to go coke bottle then but the handwriting was on the wall. This design wasn’t as slick aero wise and was abandoned after one season

   So to Bas and others my data was right. But yours was too… nevertheless still a impressive looking car. The complete opposite colored car that came in British GP became a fan fav for many of us.

   That’s for comments.
   1. 

      MarcusAurelius (@marcusaurelius)
      16th January 2021, 7:45

      I was at the Huchenholz corner when Nelson Piquet was on his qualifying lap wit the qualifying tyres and the full boost qualifying engine. You could HEAR the 1500hp! The difference in sound with the rest of the weekend was huge. I will never forget that sound, goosebumps stuff….
      1. 

         ColdFly (@)
         16th January 2021, 10:58

         As (simplistically) noice is lost energy, and BHP is engine (mechanic) power, one can argue that a noisier engine has lower BHP* ;)
         @marcusaurelius

         * at same energy input.
         1. 

            ColdFly (@)
            16th January 2021, 11:00

            *noise
   2. 

      anon
      16th January 2021, 9:59

      stevenholmes, and how many of those sites actually give any indication where those figures might have come from, especially the higher and more speculative ones?
      1. 

         Stevenholmes
         16th January 2021, 17:08

         That’s sort of the point anon. Once I got into the depth of “factual “ info the tales of performance were all over the board. Perhaps I should have listed each source with each claimed of power. Like I said 35 years ago there was no internet no websites no tv shows just Road nnTrack mag where as an example. The results of the Indy500 were published in the September issue. Almost in the same year. The other source and only source of Televised coverage. The Monaco Grand Prix on Wide world of Sports. There was a lowball mag that had newspaper like story telling. Nothing like what Racefans now exposes us to.
         With little else to follow F1 I found Grand Prix illustrated that had race to race coverage with two paragraph of info attached to each full page color photos of the then amazing Grand Prix Cars. It was like Christmas morning whenever a new issue showed up
         I’m nearing 70 now and half my life ago was how F1 was presented. Soon to change with Andretti Lotus79 combo.
         It blossomed into our culture soon after.

         So this tale is meant to show Y’all how F1 was then and maybe you might imagine after Cosworth dominance hearing about HALF of a F1 engine that was getting 1,400HP!!!
         My God it was stunning then and that message was welded into my synapse. I’ve never forgotten it. And that became my love affair with Piquet, Gordon, Ecclestone and team Brabham. A itty bitty liter and a half engine putting out one thousand five hundred horsepower, designed by the Gods answer to newest form of Colin Chapman , Gordon Murray and the ever present Bernie whose path to run F1 was developing.
         And a single article in a rare Pacific Northwest mag about F1. The story stuck and I’ve spoken about those days
         With knowledge that it was happening as my interest in Grand Prix Racing. And nothing in my world of interest of GP history has ever replaced that passion
         So the story itself has apparently gone through many challenges many tests and that surely is the cause you guys n gals recall different data than I do

         Go Piquet , KICK Covid in the Balls
         1. 

            BasCB (@bascb)
            17th January 2021, 12:24

            Thanks to sharing your passion for the sport with us there Stevenholmes!
2. 

   DB-C90 (@dbradock)
   16th January 2021, 0:56

   Best wishes to Nelson Piquet for a full recovery.
3. 

   Sensord4notbeingafanboi (@peartree)
   16th January 2021, 2:41

   I had the impression RB had a lot of faith in Vips. Don’t know why they have delayed his career. I would not be surprised to see Vips in fp1 in 2021.
   1. 

      Jere (@jerejj)
      16th January 2021, 7:28

      @peartree I wouldn’t be surprised if he were in the Alpha Tauri in 2022 alongside Tsunoda.
      1. 

         Sensord4notbeingafanboi (@peartree)
         16th January 2021, 17:50

         @jerejj agreed
4. 

   Pinak Ghosh (@pinakghosh)
   16th January 2021, 7:06

   Ferrari 248 was a decent car….had it not been for the results in Australia and Japan, it was a close battle at the top with Renault.
5. 

   Dave
   16th January 2021, 8:48

   Get well soon Piquet.
6. 

   F1 frog (@f1frog)
   16th January 2021, 9:53

   I would like to point out that @robbie has had the COTD in 2 of the last 3 days (with the other COTD being Robert). Very impressive, Robbie!
   1. 

      ColdFly (@)
      16th January 2021, 11:03

      As he is Canadian (or living there) he probably bought this site.
      Next he’ll promote his son to editor-in-chief.
      1. 

         Robbie (@robbie)
         16th January 2021, 13:03

         @f1frog Thank you, but to be fair I couldn’t have done it without my billions!

         @coldfly 😂 😂😂 I don’t know Robert jr…er I mean Robert…honestly;)
   2. 

      Holmzini
      16th January 2021, 17:18

      Ding Ding to Robbie.

      Your words are among many that I have followed over the years. Many of you contribute and although we may disagree like me from time to time, in the end
      I enjoy dicing it up.
      I managed one comment of the day (when Keith was on vacation I heard) but to get three in the last week…..jealous I am.
      Mighty fine thinking, then writing Robbie. I enjoy your knowledge even if we disagree once in a while.
      Continued success my friend !!

      Steve
      1. 

         Robbie (@robbie)
         17th January 2021, 12:14

         Well thank you very much, Steve.
7. 

   HK (@me4me)
   16th January 2021, 10:49

   Shows again just how much Red Bull contributes to F1 and motorsport in general. Great to see those young drivers getting the support they require to progress.

   Also, if I had to guess, maybe Red Bull feels like they need to spread and sign more drivers at a young age. They’ve missed out of some great young drivers, which their rivals signed up instead. Red Bull can’t really have that. It strenghtens their rivals while their junior program goes through a dry spell. They do not really want to be in a position where they’re forced to sign an expensive top driver.
8. 

   Tristan (@skipgamer)
   16th January 2021, 12:22

   Disagree with the comment of the day. Abiteboul was a big obstacle to a productive Red Bull – Renault relationship. It’s easy to forget that at the time, before McLaren moving to Honda, Red Bull was very optomistic about being the sole customer and the greater working relationship this offered.

   But Renault, under Abiteboul’s leadership continuously rebutted Red Bull’s wish to go with Illien’s engine design (who was later involved with improving Honda’s engine). Abiteboul also said Red Bull’s wish for rapid prototyping and development didn’t mesh with Renault’s more measured philosophy for development.

   I think it’s pretty wrong to say Red Bull wouldn’t be more interested in working with Alpine and a clean slate than they would in rekindling the Abiteboul relationship.
   1. 

      anon
      16th January 2021, 14:43

      @skipgamer not really sure where you’re getting the claim that Abiteboul “continuously rebutted Red Bull’s wish to go with Illien’s engine design”.

      In late 2014, Renault formed an agreement with Illien for his company to begin work on a single cylinder prototype for bench testing, which would be used to test a potential alternative development route to Renault’s own internal development path.

      During the early part of 2015, Illien ran a series of tests on that single cylinder test model, but the net results weren’t any better than what Renault was achieving with its own single cylinder test models. Illien then kept developing that single cylinder test model, and in the latter part of 2015 the bench test model was showing a slight improvement in combustion efficiency over the 2015 spec Renault engine – reportedly about 4% better – but those improvements came too late in the year to be incorporated into Renault’s 2016 spec engine, with Renault having already pressed ahead with their production plans for 2016.

      Now, early in 2016, Mario Illien confirmed himself that Renault formed a direct contract with him, having previously been working indirectly via Red Bull, and Illien worked on developing Renault’s engine over the course of the 2016 season. That contract was for 12 months, and in early 2017 the partnership ended as Illien finalised his developments and Renault finished incorporating that into their later engines.

      We therefore have confirmation from both Renault and Illien that the two did work together, with Illien hired as an external consultant to work on a few specific issues that Renault were having in that period. It looks more like Illien’s original developments weren’t adopted because they were no better than Renault’s proposals, but some of his later developments do seem to have made it into later iterations of Renault’s engines – that doesn’t suggest to me that Abiteboul was “continually rebutting” Illien.
      1. 

         Tristan (@skipgamer)
         17th January 2021, 0:25

         That contract was for 12 months, and in early 2017 the partnership ended as Illien finalised his developments and Renault finished incorporating that into their later engines.

         Not what I heard, I thought his work was thrown in the bin to Red Bull’s dismay but hey, I probably have it wrong.
         1. 

            erikje
            18th January 2021, 19:52

            Agreed, “the end” was telling.

            When asked if Illien was still working for Renault as a consultant, Taffin told Autosport: “No. This was a good collaboration, and now it is finished. Now we move on and look forward.”
            1. 

               erikje
               18th January 2021, 19:54

               btw, this Taffin ;)

               Renault F1 engine boss Rémi Taffin says the French manufacturer’s power unit is surpassed only by Ferrari and exceeds the performance of both Mercedes and Honda.
   2. 

      Robbie (@robbie)
      16th January 2021, 14:49

      @skipgamer I just think that even if Abiteboul was still there it would still be a clean slate and not a rekindling, as neither side would want that, nor would be unprofessional by keeping dwelling on the past when they’d be naturally in the moment and looking to progress together going forward.

      Oh I’m not trying to claim it would be ideal. Horner has said he thinks they’d likely rather not supply RBR, but not because of an emotional reason, but because they have their own agenda as a works team especially now that Mac has dumped them. And of course we know it would be more ideal if RBR could have a close works relationship with someone too, which is what they are striving to do if at all possible. The thing is, and I’ve heard both Abiteboul and Horner say it, is that RBR are not your usual customer. They have high expectations and have earned their place to do so by showing how potent they can be chassis and driver wise, no matter the pu.
      1. 

         BasCB (@bascb)
         17th January 2021, 12:28

         I just think that even if Abiteboul was still there it would still be a clean slate and not a rekindling, as neither side would want that, nor would be unprofessional by keeping dwelling on the past when they’d be naturally in the moment and looking to progress together going forward.

         Exactly that @robbie.

         If they decide to get together again, surely both of them would do so looking forward. By now that acrimony is ancient in F1 terms. Sure, it will influence how they setup the relationship. And it might make for some uneasyness with some people in the companies. But the target would be to achieve together. Why else be in F1. And why else work together.
9. 

   wsrgo (@wsrgo)
   16th January 2021, 12:36

   Weird to see that Fred Vesti isn’t returning with Prema, any other F3 seat is basically a step down at this point. Coupled with the rumours of him becoming a Merc junior, maybe a late F2 call up is in the offing, or perhaps a DTM drive?
10. 

    StefMeister (@stefmeister)
    16th January 2021, 13:09

    It’s a shame that Marco Andretti’s career in Indycar never really went the way it looked like it would.

    You go back & look at his rookie season in 2006 & he looked like he was going to be the next big young American star. As a rookie he nearly won the Indy 500, He ran fairly consistently towards the front of the field, Won one race & had opportunities to win more that year. He looked to have a lot of speed, Maturity & consistency which for a rookie is usually the sign they are going to have a lot of success.

    Yet from 2008 it just all fell apart & he went from been the promising young American star to been mostly found towards the tail end of the mid-field, Making silly mistakes & been highly inconsistent. For most of the past decade he’s looked like a completely different driver who lack’s everything that made him stand out so much in 2006.

    I think a big part of it was sticking with the Andretti team for so long, He was never going to lose that seat so maybe stopped driving as hard as he would have if he had to perform to keep it. Going to another team & facing those pressures would perhaps have helped him get back to where he was at the start of his career.
11. 

    Holmzini
    16th January 2021, 17:30

    Mario Andretti…Greatest of the great American racers. Dominant in all classes he raced. Still a prominent figure in world motorsports.

    Michael Andretti…Rising star in two major series was crushed by Senna at McLaren and soon after became a byline of Mario’s career. Got smart and began team ownership.

    Marco Andretti… dreamer of an opportunity of said family name
    As of this writing still waiting for meaningful results.
    Gifts don’t count even if you are an Andretti
12. 

    Bruno AsMartVet
    17th January 2021, 1:05

    JÜRI, please, and RÄIKKÖNEN.
    Anything else is just unpolite nowadays, when there are no more HW excuses.
    Brittish journalists – please do a better job!

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