Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes, Hungaroring, 2015

2015 Hungarian Grand Prix championship points

2015 Hungarian Grand Prix

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2015 Hungarian Grand Prix

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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88 comments on “2015 Hungarian Grand Prix championship points”

  1. I’ll bite. Vettel has been hands down the best driver this season. Hamilton was underwhelmng in Spain and Austria, a complete joke today. Vettel has performed in every race apart from Bahrain. The only reason to why Hamilton is ahead is because of his car supremacy.

    I’d never thought I’d say this after 2010-2013

    1. I know its time for the mid-term driver ratings. and Hamilton was 1st for me. But today was a litany of mistakes! Vettel is indeed the best driver this season. Ricciardo seemed to be having a great race too but the last incident was unnecessary.

      1. The incident was a racing incident and not Ricciardo’s fault at all.

        1. If anything I’d put it down to Rosberg for swiping across him.

      2. +1 On Vettel the best driver so far this season. Made some errors in Bahrein indeed, but at least he managed to bring the car home 5th, which both Mercedes failed to do today. He had the pace on every circuit so far, while Hamilton and Rosberg both had tracks where they underperformed this season.

    2. Still better than Rosberg though.

    3. Nope. Lewis had maybe his worse race for the Silver Arrows today but it doesn’t exclude what he has done over the season. Regardless of relative car pace, he is outqualifying a quality driver in his prime (9-1) more than Vettel and there are many races (Australia, China, Bahrain, Canada) where it is impossible for him to stand out because he only needs to control a gap from the front.

      It’s funny how you mention 2010-2013 (i.e. Vettel’s four championships). The highest rated drivers are always the faster drivers in the 2nd fastest car. This was usually Fernando and Lewis and now is Sebastian.

      The guys in the fastest car can only achieve or underachieve. The guys in the slower cars can significantly overachieve.

      1. @kodongo

        The guys in the fastest car can only achieve or underachieve. The guys in the slower cars can significantly overachieve.

        +100!

      2. Lewis had maybe his worse race for the Silver Arrows today but it doesn’t exclude what he has done over the season.

        What he’s done over the season is to be mediocre in a fantastic car which has covered up his failings numerous times. He’s still the heavy favorite to win the WDC this year, but he has not driven exceptionally well.

        1. @rm You could say the same thing about Vettel during his championship winning years. Even Schumacher fall into that category.

          1. Trenthamfolk (@)
            29th July 2015, 21:48

            Too right… :-) And what to say about Rosbeg int he same car!?

      3. @kodongo
        Hamilton has under-performed in at least 3 races so far this season. Today in Hungary is obvious. In Spain, he was slow in qualifying and had a bad start. In Austria, he had a bad start, less pace than Rosberg, and crossed the pit-lane exit line. On both occasions he still finished 2nd, because that is the magnitude of Mercedes’ advantage this season.

        By contrast, Vettel has only had one bad race (Bahrain), and he finished 5th because unlike Mercedes, Ferrari does not have a such a hefty advantage over the rest of the field.

        I do not recall a single weekend in 2013 where Vettel messed up like Hamilton did today, in a similarly dominant car.

        The better driver of the 2nd best team is rated higher than the best driver for the best team, when he makes less mistakes, has less boogie weekends and has less weekends where he gets out-performed by his teammate.

        1. I do not recall a single weekend in 2013 where Vettel messed up like Hamilton did today, in a similarly dominant car.

          I do not recall Vettel having a similar calibre of team mate in the prime of his career like Lewis does.

          When Sebastian and Mark were neck and neck in 2010, I remember Vettel KOing himself while trying to overtake Mark at Turkey and KOing Button while trying to overtake him at Spa before going on to hit another car.

          Intense championship rivalry forces mistakes out of drivers. In 2013, Vettel had no rival. Webber had a talent for taking himself out of contention by Turn 1. This meant Vettel was controlling a majority of the races easily (especially the second half).

          You evaluate a driver on their peaks and troughs. For me, Lewis has higher highs than Vettel and undoubtedly lower lows (like today).

          Lewis has taken on peak Alonso, peak Button and peak Rosberg and has won all but one of the seasons against these quality drivers. Vettel has taken on peak Webber (09-10), declining Webber(11-13), rising Riccairdo and declining Räikkönen, again winning all but one of the seasons.

          In 2015, I would put Hamilton and Vettel as the best drivers of the season. Of course, Hamilton has more blemishes on his record, every missed pole or victory is a blemish but he also has a tougher opponent and a championship to manage. Vettel has been glorious as well but his mistakes (Bahrain, Britain quali) won’t get remembered because it is pretty inevitable that he will finish the season in 3rd place.

        2. @kodongo

          I do not recall Vettel having a similar calibre of team mate in the prime of his career like Lewis does.

          Rosberg has barely threatened Hamilton these two years, race-craft -wise. Technical issues aside, last year was extremely one-sided, in Hamilton’s favor. Rosberg’s saving grace was qualifying, and he has lost even that this year.

          The whole reason the Austrian GP was such an occasion is because it was the first race Rosberg won ahead of Hamilton just due to better racing, and not because Hamilton had a technical issue, wrong strategy call or Hamilton making a mistake.

    4. @kingshark I never thought you’d have said that after 2010-2013 either, haha. Kudos to you for being open-minded about it. I don’t think Vettel has been “hands down” the best, as in I don’t think he has clear superiority over Hamilton (I’d say he’s at least tied with him). He also was a bit underwhelming at Silverstone before the rain arrived, but that and Bahrain are the only things I can think of if I had to criticise Vettel’s season. He’s been driving even better then he was in 2011 or 2013.

    5. I disagree with Vettel’s start line tactics. He gets alongside a driver and turns in on them, gradually pushing them across the circuit. He demonstrated that today.

      1. @matt90 at least there was a lot of open space between Hamilton and Rosberg. Vettel didn’t push Hamilton far enough to really squeeze him //cough

        1. Regardless, on a straight I don’t think you should have the right to hustle another car like that. Obviously the point is to put them on a tight line for the first corner, while the offending driver can swing back out wide at the last minute to take a better line. It’s clever, but as the driver on the inside has just as much right to resist and maintain a straight line it strikes me too much of trying to get your way or force a collision.

          1. @matt90 “or force a collision” much like we saw most of the race from most of the drivers, particularly of the Mercedes employ? Granted, Hamilton shouldered blame but still… Vettel was probably one of the cleanest drivers the entire race.

          2. @neiana I have no complaints against Vettel beside that moment- he was quite brilliant. But I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable to take issue with unnecessary movement like turning in on another car on a straight of all places.

      2. Where should he have gone? Into the gravel trap and onwards into the Hungarian countryside?

        1. @jules-winfield Surprisingly enough there’s a middle ground between a car turning right- towards another car- and turning left- off the track- while on a straight.

      3. @matt90 Vettel‘s tactics? Every race car driver does this if they have the opportunity. It’s called racing.

    6. @kingshark We all know it’s down to.. the Ferrari car! But yes, Vettel was at his best through 2011-13, perhaps he is getting back close to that after a dismal 2014.

      1. It helps that his car is not having engine issues in every second race this year.

        1. And that his team mates not showing any signs of beating him.

    7. +100000 OR, it shows that the best driver in 2nd best car is likely to be appreciated more than the best driver in the best car.

    8. Totally agree, he’s been a star this season.

  2. Getting more difficult to watch Rosberg waste the potential of that Mercedes race in and race out. Wonder how long it will be before management come to their senses and replace him.

    1. Any idea why he was on medium instead of soft for last stint?

      1. @dex022 According to Martin Brundle he was pushing for it over the radio.

        1. Yeah i heard that but WHY would he go for slower tire when deg was not an issue almost at all.

      2. His car just didn’t work on the softer rubber.

        1. Sure he wasn’t maybe very happy with softs but how can it help to put 1.5 sec slower tire? Car could not be that bad on much faster option then on prime? I really wonder….

          1. Hamilton took those tires and that was why Rosberg wanted them. He wanted to make sure Hamilton had no way to have an advantage.

    2. Wonder how long it will be before management come to their senses and replace him.

      What’s better, from a team’s standpoint, than a solid n°2 driver?

    3. Yeah. Rosberg was really off the pace this weekend, should have won it in the end but couldn’t pull away from a RED BULL and then cut Ricciardo off giving him a puncture. Almost as bad as Hamilton this race.

      1. I suppose there will be another topic to discuss this but … how can this be Rosbergs fault?

        Ricciardo brakes miles too late, then comes back to the racing line with a dangerously slow speed.

        1. +1. I thought that was a late late dive bomb from Ric. Have to see replays to conclude it though. But Rosberg should have played safe with Hamilton running out of points.

          1. I disagree.
            Ricciardo still made the corner therefore he didn’t brake too late. It was a divebomb for sure but there is nothing in the rules to say that’s illegal.
            Rosberg took the racing line on exit to try and make Ricciardo lift so his run into t2 would be compromised. Again nothing illegal. The rules say the lead car has the rights to the racing line which is what Rosberg did. He could have and in my opinion should have given more room on exit but there is also the argument that Ricciardo should have lifted being the car behind. Either way its a clumsy racing incident that cost both drivers any shot they had at the win.

        2. Comes back to the racing line? He was following the edge of the circuit in what was clearly the only reasonable option available. Rosberg didn’t need to alter his line much to avoid contact- he’d have sacrificed a small amount of speed and still had a significantly faster exit than Ricciardo.

        3. It’s not the first time Rosberg cuts completely the space on a corner exit, this time Ricciardo had no time to react, as it can be seen with the onboard shot. A racing incident where both drivers were equally at fault.

          1. Yeah. But it’s also not the first time Ricciardo dives excessively.

    4. maarten.f1 (@)
      26th July 2015, 15:17

      Actually, he’s doing a perfect job @72defender

      Hamilton is the number one driver at Mercedes, winning races. And Rosberg is doing a perfect job coming in second place, while not being a real threat to Hamilton.

    5. Is it Rosberg that wasted Mercedes’ potential? That takes guts to assert.

        1. @traverse @stefanauss
          Rosberg for whatever reason was being outpaced by the 2 Ferraris quite comfortably, when Hamilton was setting purple laps whenever he wasn’t stuck immediately behind someone.

          1. Hamilton was setting purple laps when he was on better tyres. We arguably didn’t get to really see the superior race pace of Mercedes fully in comparison to Ferrari and Red Bull. They all looked just as fast actually. While they were not making any mistakes and running in clean air, gaps were pretty constant which was weird. Actually Ferrari looked like a bit slower than other 2 whole weekend, including the race. A bit confusing perhaps…

    6. It’s funny: replace Rosberg with Raikkonen and Mercedes with Ferrari, and that sentence works too!

      1. Today though, Raikkonen had roughly equal pace to Vettel, and lost 2nd thanks to the MGU-K problem. Feel for him.

        1. Fikri Harish (@)
          26th July 2015, 18:53

          Yeah. Today.
          Great drivers don’t have good days. They have bad days.

        2. He sticked Vettel in the opening laps but after that he was two tenths down every lap until his MGU-K problem. Shame for him, but I was not impressed by his performance, actually.

      2. If Raikkonen had the same pace as Vettel, he wouldn’t have been 10 seconds behind him until the MGU-K problem.

    7. I am not sure if you know how wasting potential should look, but it sure ain’t Rosberg in Merc…

    8. He is 2nd and less than a race win behind his team mate after 10 GPs. Unless you think he should be 1st then I don’t see how is squandering the car’s potential.

      1. It’s in plain sight for the world to see. He’s an average driver in superior machinery. He is far less aggressive than Lewis is and lack the killer instinct winners have. Ala Lewis, Fernando or Vettel. No pressure whatsoever on the Ferraris at the start. Put any of the aforementioned three in that position and they’re attacking the whole time. Nico is passive where Lewis makes something out of nothing where Nico has to have chips fall into place.

  3. Can’t believe Lewis still leads after that race! What a race! 9/10 for me! Just a shame Lewis couldn’t of won

  4. Still so shocked Hamilton actually managed to extend his Championship lead after two massive errors!

    The imaginary ‘luck pendulum’ was swinging crazily between Rosberg and Hamilton’s favour today!

    1. Meh, this leaves a bitter taste on my tongue.

      Lewis made two big errors today and extends his lead over a team-mate who – while being off the pace – made no errors today (or made a very slight one, depending on how you see the Ricciardo incidident).

      1. Rosberg made the error of being too passive once he felt that had Hamilton covered.

      2. I’d say that sweeping across the front of another driver is a fairly major error if it results in contact. That puncture looked self inflicted to me. Unlike Hamilton he had the misfortune of it occurring too late in the race to give him time to make amends I suppose.

      3. @paeschli
        Rosberg made a HUGE error by playing it conservatively and choosing the harder compound for the final stint. As I’ve said many times before. Rosberg is risk averse.

  5. Vettel is doing Alonso!

  6. 1992 Peugeot Talbot Sport (@peugeot-905-92-93-le-mans-winner)
    26th July 2015, 15:34

    Verstappen was under investigation for speedin gunder SC.
    Will he get his penalty. And if yes, will that promote Alo to p4??

    1. @peugeot-905-92-93-le-mans-winner I believe that penalty was served i the race. I think.

      1. he got a drive through penalty otherwise he would be third.

        1. I think he didn’t lose much time as is because of SC actually? Maybe the penalties should be served after SC, though it would be unnecessarily harsh maybe.

  7. Rosberg dominated Spain, made a good overtake in Austria and was unlucky today, I think the error by his mechanics on his setup really hampered his ability to both pull away from the Red Bull and overtake the Ferrari.

    Cannot farily call him a No.2 driver when he is as good as Hamilton at his best. Inconsistency is his main issue which will improve with experience. We have to remember Rosberg has only been in a championship winning car from last year. Hamilton has had that luxury since basically the start of his F1 career.

    1. Rosberg’s is NOT as good as Hamilton. Not at all.

      1. Notice the words “at his best”? Sometimes Rosberg can match or even beat Hamilton, as at Brazil last year. It doesn’t happen often, though.

    2. I think Rosberg, when everything is 100%, is a better and faster driver than Hamilton (marginally). Hamilton, however, is consistently 98-100% whereas Rosberg is probably 90% most of the time. Overall, that would make Hamilton the superior driver of the two, as far as I am concerned.

      Commenting on Hamilton’s team’s since the beginning of his F1 career; there was a statement made on Sky regarding the relative stats between Hamilton and Senna. Senna drove poor cars to good finishes a lot more than Hamilton did, so the comparisons are quite unfair, in my opinion.

      1. When everything is 100% for Rosberg? Really?! That is a pathetic excuse.

        What happens when everything is this magical 100% for Hamilton? They are team mates driving the same car. If that isn’t parity I don’t know what is. Hamilton is just better no matter how some try to downplay his ability.

        BTW, Senna drove great cars for most of his career.

        1. @trublu
          Senna drove a dominant car for 2 seasons (1988-89), equal best car with Ferrari and Williams respectively for 2 seasons (1990-91), and for the rest of his career he drove cars that were around about 2nd-3rd best on the grid, that includes his Lotus cars as well as his McLaren cars from 1992-93. He drove a backmarker in 1984.

          That is 4 out of 10 seasons in a “great car”.

          Hamilton has had, overall, slightly better cars throughout his career than Senna did.

        2. @trublu

          Yes, when everything is 100% for Rosberg he beats 100% for Hamilton but Hamilton is constantly at 100% while Rosberg rarely is. The same argument could apply to Kimi, when everything is 100% he is a true force but if even one thing is off, everything is off. Kimi = Nico

          1. Sorry, that’s a completely obtuse argument. Not even the least bit logical.

    3. Rosberg is just not as good as Hamilton, period.

    4. He is not a clear number 2, thats for sure. Hamfans here calling him garbage have no value in their opinion.

      1. The statistics clearly show Hamilton in the better driver. Theres more value in that than all the conjecture. It has nothing to do with fandom. It’s interesting how some always fall back on that when they can’t backup their opinion with reasonable data.

      2. @overwatch

        Isn´t it Hamilton-fans that are constantly hyping up Rosberg in order to make Hamiltons performances look great? Because if Rosberg is a “number 2 driver”, comparable to a Webber or Massa, Hamiltons advantage over Rosberg doesn´t look that impressive.

        1. @crammond Was looking for this. Looks like someone didn’t think things through.

        2. +1 Yeah. I definitely agree with that. TV commentators also lack the intelligence to see that.

  8. The midfield battle in both the constructors’ and drivers’ championship is shaping up to be a thriller. Reminds me of seasons like 1998 where teams like Jordan would suddenly come out of nowhere at the beginning of the season to grab 4th at the end of the season. A few races ago, I thought it’d be Red Bull versus the midfield and Force India would drop off, now Red Bull is running off and McLaren might join again after Monza.

  9. lol , y there is Kevin on the championship list??

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