“Too many uncertainties” in Zandvoort F1 proposal

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In the round-up: Plans to bring F1 back to Zandvoort in the Netherlands have hit a snag.

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The drag reduction system gets blamed too quickly for ‘boring’ passes, says Jere:

I’d say Hamilton’s easy-looking DRS-assisted passes into turn one were more down to the fact he had a fresher engine than most of the drivers he overtook on his way through the field than DRS alone. That was my impression at the time as well, for example, when he made his moves on the Renault, and Toro Rosso-drivers. People are quick to always blame DRS for easy-looking passes that are completed before the braking point for the approaching corner without thinking about the possible other aspects that could very well have more influence on making them look easy than DRS.
Jere (@Jerejj)

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  • 42 comments on ““Too many uncertainties” in Zandvoort F1 proposal”

    1. Glad they seem to have changed there mind about altering the Melbourne circuit as altering the back straght/turns 11/12 just to be able to add another DRS zone with a slow corner at the end wouldn’t have been a positive change IMO, Especially considering that the 11/12 section is one of the fastest, most challenging part of the track.

      Yes overtaking is hard at Melbourne, Always has been but honestly so what? It’s a good circuit that challenges the drivers & punishes mistakes & with overtaking been tough it means that the overtaking you do see actually means something & is worth getting excited over unlike a lot of the DRS nonsense you see elsewhere.

      1. But they could rename that straight as Maldonado bend. Or varianta pastor. I think its been long enough.

        1. Nah, the first sequence of corners should be named after him. He crashed there on the first lap in 2015.

      2. @stefmeister agreed, overtaking is hard but it’s still not impossible. I wouldn’t mind a bit of a layout change to make it a bit easier, but changing that section at the back of the lake, in particular turns 11 and 12, is the wrong way to do it. They are the fastest and possibly most iconic corners on the track and replacing them with a slower sequence would be a tragedy.

        If anything was to be done, I think extending the run to turn 13 and making that corner a bit tighter, or speeding up turn 1 (where few passes are made currently) to make the braking zone into turn 3 longer would be the thing to do.

      3. The track is fine, but it’s up to Pirelli to provide the drivers with good, but not too durable tires. The 2016 compounds were fine, I still don’t know why they had to change those compounds.

        1. New rules with much faster cornering? Heavy criticism of degrading tyres so went to other end of the spectrum. Now they have 2 extremes they should be able to find the right balance next year.

    2. Wouldn’t be keen on getting rid of Turns 11 and 12, but I do wish they’d found a way to do something with the track. It has potential and it’s nice to watch qualifying on, but the racing is always pretty dismal and processional these days, even with DRS…

    3. Montoya: ‘Kubica at Williams is a joke!’

      No no Montoya they are not talking about bringing you to F1, they are bringing in talented Kubica.

      Yes maybe you Montoya back to F1 will be a great joke !

      1. Montoya would drive better than Kubica.

        1. Chris (@tophercheese21)
          17th November 2017, 1:44

          Well, no. He probably wouldn’t. Juan is rather… portly… at the moment.

          1. @tophercheese21, even when he was in F1, he was one of the more portly drivers – I recall that some said that, when he drove for Williams and was walking around in their white overalls, he bore a bit of a resemblance to the Michelin man.

      2. @redbullf1 Montoya at his peak was a damn good driver, and that was during an incredibly competitive era, and a very difficult one to those not in a Ferrari. If he came back, however impossible, I’d be just as thrilled as with a Kubica return.

        1. God, I wish we had a showcase event once a year with a full grid of older drivers in current cars (or close to current cars), just like we have test days when teams put younger drivers on display.

        2. @fer-no65 Montoya at his peak could not beat Raikkonen (at is peak I give you that). I don’t think Montoya was much better than Kubica at his peak.

        3. Yeah. Being fat is a disability too. Montya returning overcoming his obesity would be every bit the triumph a Kubica return (overcoming serious injuries in a car crash) would be. Plus if Montoya scored points he would be the 1st F1 points scorer in a 1 tonne car (including driver).

      3. I think JPs comments were probably taken out of context a little. You know how he speaks, I think his point was that it remains unclear if Robert can withstand the physicality, its got nothing to do with his talent.

        Montoya was a super star at his peak, and I think he would give a fair few guys on the current grid a run for their money. Admittedly, I am biased, haha..he is my favorite driver of all time!

        1. On the basis of the sound bite “I’m sure Robert is no longer 100 per cent capable of pushing a Formula 1 car to the limit.” It seems to me the point Montoya was making is it isn’t the stresses placed on Robert by the car that matter as much as the stresses Robert places on the car.
          When I was listening to the racing commentators at Brazil they were saying things like “the tyres are screaming with pain”. I think this is the sort of thing Montoya is talking about, an F1 driver has to push the car to the very edge of the tyres ability to grip the road while pulling 4 or 5 “Gs” and to hold it there while going round the corner.

      4. I would say that the last sentence of that article (Kubica bringing 8 million) makes more clear why Williams are still interested in Kubica even after Renault wasn’t.

        1. Especially if you add a rather poor teammate as Stroll at his side. Surely Kubica can only look good, and even if he is on par with Stroll people will praise him knowing where he comes from…

          From a marketing point of view, Kubica is surely the best bet for Williams except if they lose 3-4 position in the constructor championship in the meantime.

          However, I am not expecting them to exploit their potential more than this year (and I feel that their drivers have not taken the maximum out of the car yet). On a sad note, I don’t really see any good available drivers for them to pick and show their full potential. And if they want to go along that road they would have to take a gamble with someone like Frijns which showed great potential but was F1 ready at a time of talent blooming and was overlooked.
          Still find him more appealing than the names currently linked with Williams. But can Williams afford a Hartley? No recent f1 experience, not much backing, high risk, unknown but possibly high(er) potential.

          1. Yes, it’s too bad Williams has sunken so far. Going by budget they should have a much bigger budget than Force India and the same engine. So it’s odd that they are so far behind FI.

            Although part of the difference in points at least is explained by the number of retirements. Especially Stroll had a lot.

        2. yeah i thought that was the interesting bit. 8m is not nothing and williams seem quite happy to take the money. it’s real all down to kubica to do a great test. no pressure!

      5. Montoya said nothing wrong.

        It will come down to how much money Williams believe that they can get from Kubica and how likely he is to score points for them. He is likely to bring more sponsorship and media attention than Di´Resta so he probably will get a chance.

        Personally I would prefer to see somebody different but it´s up to Williams and I have faith that Claire Williams, if she is still making the big decisions in light of her being of on maternity leave, to make fair decisions.

    4. Michael Brown (@)
      17th November 2017, 1:48

      The Melbourne circuit is better backwards than forwards

      1. I have something a little more radical in mind.
        “Accelerator” – Built just outside Canberra on all that deserted land.
        I have initial drawings.

      2. It is already upside down.

    5. Guys when you post a video like the Donington video I need a warning bc the sound triggers me to remembering that there was this beautiful sound f1 card made and gets me very sad lol. For real though I think a F1 race at Donington might be cool to see again one day.

      1. I feel the same way every time hear a ‘real’ racing engine, and that lovely sound they used to make going down the gears…

      2. Donington Park is a great track, but it would probably need to be lengthened for F1. Maybe those two straights behind the pits could be lengthened to where the hairpin was in the ‘30s?

    6. Jonathan Parkin
      17th November 2017, 5:07

      I wouldn’t like to change the layout of Albert Park. What I would do is keep all the painted lines on the track and not burn half of them off. That might encourage overtaking if drivers make more mistakes because of them

    7. Another COTD for me, I didn’t see that coming, LOL.
      Also on this day in F1: Daniel Ricciardo set the fastest ever lap (1:38.102) of the venue for the next race set in any session on this day in 2010 post-season testing.

    8. Regarding the article about tweaking Melbourne to increase overtaking: on Motorsport someone replied this and I thought it was a great idea:

      “A better solution would be to continue down Lakeside Drive – do a sharp 140 degree right at Village Green Drive and return. The track is slightly longer and way cooler.”

      http://bit.ly/2ipC6hw

      1. that looks like a great little tweak. it’s already a half-chance sort of a passing place. the rest of the track is fine – it would be shame to lose any of it.

      2. That is an awesome suggestion.

      3. @matthijs @frood19 @aliced Interesting idea but not possible.

        The proposed changes were about using the existing roads which the circuit already lease for the race & simply altering the way they used them. Using the bit of road on the inside of current turns 9/10 (Which would be easily flat out & basically an extension of the straight) & then simply moving the inside kerb at T11 to make it tighter.

        The issue with extending Lakeside Drive is that not only is there no runoff at the end & no way to increase it (And they would need to have runoff given the speeds) but there is also no way to rejoin the current layout without altering Hockey drive & again there is issue with runoff.

        The thing to remember is that the circuit/race promoters don’t own the land, A lot of it is publicly owned parkland owned by local authorities & there are heavy restrictions on what the circuit promoters can/cannot do. To use the lakeside/Village Green/Hockey Drive extension they would need to take away some of the tree’s to create a bit more room for runoff & to alter the area where it rejoins the current layout as based on what I know about the restrictions they have they would be unable to make those changes.

      4. @matthijs Don’t like that idea any more than I do changing 11/12.

        Losing the current Turn 14 which is a fast, challenging, fun corner where it’s easy to gain/lose time woudl be just as bad as losing the current 11/12.

        Yes overtaking is hard at Melbourne, But I don’t see that as a reason to alter what is one of the best circuits on the calendar. We have already seen good circuits/corners ruined in the name of overtaking (Bus stop at Spa, Turn 10 at Barcelona, The new Silverstone, Suzuka chicane, Final corners at magny-cours to name a few) & I’d rather not see them do it to another.

    9. Zandvoort: lets wait what the F1 talks with the owners (royal) brings us. If they are ok with it all decissions will be passed without any problem.

    10. I would like turn 9 be left out to increase the speed in lakeside drive. The only passing there is on lap 1.

    11. If the Dutch government can throw away eleven billion euros on the Fyra(train project), upgrading Zandvoort for about half a billion would be peanuts.

    12. The situation with Kubica though is that everyone was sorry to see him go from the sport in the first place, due to his terrible accident and life changing injuries. I hope Montoya is proved wrong, but my gut tells me he is probably right. The ship has sailed I fear!

    13. I hope Montoya is given the chance to eat his words.

    14. Kubica will prove all haters wrong. There are still people thinking he will drive one handed when he steers with, it is ignorance by thr likes of villeneuve and montoya. Good days ahead for kubica and kubica fans. I believe with paddy lowe and kubica the team can now move back up the grid.

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