Radio messages reveal how Ricciardo made the “black and white” tyre call Norris missed

2021 Russian Grand Prix

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When rain began to fall in the closing stages of the Russian Grand Prix, one McLaren driver made the right call to pit while the other took a race-losing decision to stay out.

Daniel Ricciardo dived for the pits on lap 48 for a set of intermediate tyres as the track conditions worsened. But team mate Lando Norris, who had led much of the race, stayed out until the 51st lap on his slicks. By then it was far too late, and it cost Norris a shot at victory.

The two drivers were in different situations as the race entered its final laps. Leader Norris had Lewis Hamilton breathing down his neck, but the rest were a long way behind – Sergio Perez was 40 seconds in arrears on lap 47.

Ricciardo, running fifth, had recently been passed by Perez and was running on an older set of tyres than Norris. He therefore lost grip more quickly when the rain started to fall.

At this point the McLaren pit wall and their drivers swapped details on the state of the track. The information flowed more frequently between Ricciardo and race engineer Tom Stallard than it did between Norris and his engineer Will Joseph.

Because Ricciardo was over 40 seconds behind his team mate at the time, as he began each lap the conditions were worse for him than they had been for Norris on the same tour earlier.

45StallardFirst spots of rain in pit lane. Very, very light.
46JosephAnd Lando umbrellas are going up.StallardAlonso, 1.2. Silver entry six, silver entry six.
46NorrisSpitting quite a bit.StallardAlonso 1.2.
46NorrisSpitting middle sector.RicciardoTurn seven a bit slippery, let me know what pit lane’s like,
46JosephOkay, understood.StallardStopped raining, stopped raining in pit lane.
47JosephOkay Lando this intensity will stay till the end of the race, we think.Stallard1.2. Seven laps to go.
47JosephPossibly wet from here ’til turn 10.StallardOkay there is a bit more rain. Plus one rain intensity, a little bit more rain. Wettest part five, six, seven, eight.
47JosephNo more [unclear] needed.RicciardoYeah, very slippery.
47StallardAlonso 0.6. It’s not raining in pit lane, just very, very few spots.

As the rain intensified, both drivers found it increasingly difficult to keep their cars on the track. But while Ricciardo decided to fit intermediates, Norris stayed out.

Daniel Ricciardo, McLaren, Sochi Autodrom, 2021
Ricciardo’s worn tyres cooled quickly when the rain hit
Speaking after the race, without knowledge of his team mate’s radio exchange, Ricciardo said he made it clear to McLaren when he felt intermediates were needed.

“My situation is that when some of the track’s dry and some of it’s wet, it really has to be us [that decides].

“The team can help us on pit wall and they were saying there’s a bit of rain on pit wall, but not too heavy. Then I was saying, look, it’s really wet turn five and seven. And that next lap I nearly went off. Well, I did go off.

“So I just told the team I need to come in for inters. I was very black and white with them, but that was my situation and that was the right thing for me at the time.”

Norris had his mirrors filled with Hamilton’s Mercedes and was preoccupied with not losing his lead as they picked their way past backmarkers.

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48JosephYellow flags, turn seven.StallardSuggest red mid six, red mid six.
48JosephNorris runs wide at turn seven
Track clear, track clear.
StallardTrack showing slippery turn three. Lando struggling turn five to 10.
48NorrisI need blue flags.StallardFirst cars are pitting, inter. First cars are pitting inter.
48JosephYep, we’re on it, we’re on it.StallardDRS disabled.
48JosephYou should have blue flags. DRS has been disabled, DRS disabled.RicciardoYeah, crazy slippery now.
48StallardDaniel copy, five laps after this, do we need the inter?
48RicciardoYeah, I can’t keep it on track. The hard’s just got no temp.
48StallardCopy Daniel we’ll box, we’ll box.
48StallardDaniel we’re box this lap.
48StallardBox now. Launch map on after the bridge, after the bridge.
48RicciardoDaniel, pit lane.
48StallardLaunch map. Silver entry nine, silver entry nine.

At around the same time – as he was further ahead of Ricciardo on the track – Norris made it clear he wanted to stay on his slick tyres.

But while McLaren kept Norris aware of other drivers who had fitted intermediates, they did not point out his team mate was one of them. As Norris later revealed he was relying on McLaren’s assessment of the weather to guide his decision, this was a potentially vital piece of information.

49JosephLando…StallardSilver entry nine. Overtake available. Launch map, launch map.
49NorrisHow many laps to go?StallardThere’s still cars on dries. Gasly still on medium.
49JosephFour to go after this one, four after this one. Some cars have pitted for inter, Bottas has gone already.StallardOrange torque four, four orange torque four.
49JosephTrack very slippery from here to turn 10, lots of cars going off.StallardYellow diff three, yellow diff three.
49NorrisYeah, shut up!
49JosephLando, what do you think about inter? What do you think about inter?
49NorrisI need blue flags, what are they doing?

Norris saw Hamilton pitting in his mirrors, but decided to stay out again. Had he come in at this point, with the lead he had over the rest of the field, he would likely have still salvaged second place.

50JosephOkay Lando Hamilton has taken it, he’s gone to inter.StallardUse a straight-line braking where you can, straight-line braking where you can for front brake temperatures. Red mid seven, red mid seven.
50NorrisYes, I see, I see. We’ve just got to commit to slicks.StallardOrange torque five, orange torque five.
50JosephNorris passed the pit lane entrance after this message
Okay Lando just to confirm, we have to be able to stay on-track here. Are you happy to stay out on this tyre?
StallardVettel is turn five now on hard, that’s an opportunity.
50StallardYou could be racing Perez, Leclerc and Alonso at pit exit this time, use overtake now, let’s try and get close.

Lando Norris, McLaren, Sochi Autodrom, 2021
Report: McLaren will review “wrong decision” not to overrule Norris on tyre call
Norris must have realised the moment he passed the pit lane entrance on lap 50 he had made a mistake. He ran wide at the final two corners, and although the braking zone for turn two was in good condition, he slithered off-track at turn four.

“It’s full wet, boys” he told the team, and despite slowing significantly he still spun off at the next corner. He understeered wide repeatedly and spun on his way into the pits in an excruciating tour of the circuit which took over three minutes.

Once he fitted intermediate tyres, Norris matched Ricciardo’s lap time to within a tenth of a second on the final tour. But over the preceding five laps he’d lost a massive 68 seconds to his team mate.

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51NorrisNorris skids off at turn seven and Hamilton takes the lead
This fucking… it’s full wet, boys. I’ve got to box. I’m going to shunt. I can’t do this.
StallardTurn five, looked very wet now it could be full wets in turn five, you need to take care there. Three laps to go, three laps to go. Leclerc turn two now on medium. Leclerc turn two now on medium.
51JosephYeah, we’re going to come in and do this. We’re going to come in. We’re going to box.StallardGreen shape four, green shape four.
51JosephOkay, Lando, we’re boxing this lap. Pit lane very slippy.
51NorrisYes box, Yes, confirm.
51JosephI need silver D9 before you come to a stop.
52JosephLaunch map on when you’re in the pit lane.StallardOvertake available for Giovinazzi in pit exit, three laps to go.
52JosephCould be to Alonso at exit.StallardTwo laps, this is P4. Bottas is on inter 4.9 seconds behind.
52JosephClose to Raikkonen at exit.StallardBottas last lap, 51.6, he’s the fastest car on-track.
52JosephJust green F4, green F4.
53JosephThis is the last lap.StallardLast lap, strat five, strat five.
53StallardBottas still 4.1.

While a desolate Norris said nothing on his way back into the pits, Ricciardo gave more insight into how the conditions had worsened at the end.

CFJosephRecharge on please. Watch for low revs. We finished P7.StallardOkay Daniel that’s P4 mate. P4. Good job. We need recharge on, ACS off. And keep the RPM up, please keep the RPM up. That got pretty tasty at the end. Well done, buddy. That was a good call with the inters.
CFJosephAnd remember to turn the car completely off and check it once you jump out, please.RicciardoOkay, yeah that spiced it up a little. Okay, yeah, I think that was a good call so we did what we could, thank you.
CFStallardYeah, well done. Switches are good. So just watch the RPM as I said. As long as you’re above 8,000 we’re good. Finishing order: Hamilton, Verstappen, Sainz, yourself, Bottas, Alonso, Lando, Raikkonen, Perez, Russell. Lando tried to stay out on the on the slick tyres and it just got too wet.
CFRicciardoOK, understood. Yeah it was really bad through turn five, this part of the track. Where you guys are wasn’t too bad. But it got very heavy last couple of laps.

Quotes: Dieter Rencken

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2021 Russian Grand Prix

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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85 comments on “Radio messages reveal how Ricciardo made the “black and white” tyre call Norris missed”

  1. I suspect this will be a very painful, but essential, experience for Lando. However, if his team can support him to learn the lessons, he will be a much more complete driver thereafter. He has proven that he has the raw speed – now he needs to learn how to work with his engineering team more effectively.

    1. @Chris Scott honestly I think there’s more to learn for McLaren here. Lando had exactly the same instincts as Lewis did – a hugely experienced 7-time WDC also wanted to stay out. Ignored a first box call even to go around one more time.

      The difference between both of them was their team. On the following lap Mercedes told Lewis to box. Lewis responded that it had stopped raining, but Mercedes said in clear terms more rain was coming and to come in.
      Meanwhile McLaren did not give any info to Lando. Nothing on more rain coming – on the contrary, on lap 47 they told him rain would not worsen, and at that point the slick was still better. They just left him hanging, and as above he had the exact same instinct as Lewis: to stay out.

      1. As stated by horner, the rain info was very ambiguous. It was a gamble one way or the other.
        Races are not won in hindsight.

        1. Sure, but Mercedes apparently had the info and brought Lewis in regardless of how Lewis felt about it. McLaren didn’t do anything.

          1. @mattds

            They were racing Max more than Lando, so mirroring Max made a lot of sense. If the call had been bad, Max would have made a bad call too, so they would still be ahead of Max.

          2. I don’t think Mercedes bought Ham in regardless. He was offered an in and refused, which was probably the right decision as Max who was further back said the inters on the dry parts were on the edge of destruction. It would have been drier for Ham who was further ahead.
            On the next ‘in’ Ham was right on Lando, and with his skill and experience would have assumed he would be better at handling those conditions than Lando was. Which clearly he did. Not forgetting he had plenty of time to play with behind.
            On the final in it was a simple exchange. Bono-pit. Ham-its stopped raining. Bono-Box, Box, there’s more coming. Ham pits.

            To me the difference was pure experience. Hams. The seven year working relationship between Ham and Bono. And the 80 years of experience on the Pit Wall where the four of them have worked alongside each other for 20 years.

          3. @ian dearing they did bring him in regardless. The fact Lewis questioned the last box call saying “it stopped raining” and Mercedes told him it would get worse so he had to box, proves that. If Mercedes hadn’t been so directive, then he would’ve stayed out that lap as well and he would’ve been in the same situation as Lando.

            The difference between both purely down to the info they got from the team and who took charge – team or driver.

          4. @aapje you do make a good point. But I feel if that was really the deciding factor, they would have used that element in their comms to Lewis. Instead they were clear in telling Lewis the rain would get worse and he had to come in, so I do feel that was the driving factor.
            It was also obviously the right choice, so…

          5. @ian dearing

            To me the difference was pure experience. Hams. The seven year working relationship between Ham and Bono. And the 80 years of experience on the Pit Wall where the four of them have worked alongside each other for 20 years.

            Yeah let’s just pretend Hungary didn’t happen just a few races ago (or others before that) in order to give this one to Hamilton. That’s how it’s done.

        2. Ambiguous or not, Toto said the guy responsible for reading the radar at Mercedes said confidently “more rain is coming – we need to pit” and he was right. He may have just guessed right or he may have read it correctly where others didn’t.

          If Mercedes asked Lewis “what do you think” he’d have said “slicks are fine for now” and they’d have stayed out. If they never told him that more rain was coming, he’d have been in the same position as Lando and would have lost the race to Verstappen. Lando never got that information so made a decision based on the conditions on the track as they were at the time.

          1. I think the other thing Merc did, which I dont think McLaren did, was tell Ham when the cross over point between wet and dry tires had been reached.

          2. Do remember that this was a much easier call for Hamilton and Mercedes. If they had made the wrong one, it was still highly likely be would have remained P2. Lando, on the other hand, would have thrown away his maiden victory if he’d pitted and Hamilton had managed to keep it on the track without. It makes a massive difference.

          3. I’m not so sure about that, ie., losing the win the Max. Lewis refused to pit on lap 48 but came in on 49. By that lap, both Bottas and Max, already on inters were starting to do better lap times than Lewis and the others still on slicks!
            If Lewis had stayed out on lap 49, he still had enough buffer to come in on lap 50, by which time 2 things were obvious: 1) half of the track was really wet, with cars going off all over the place, and more crucially 2) those on inters were doing much better times. So even if Lewis had refused to box on 49, he would certainly had pitted on lap 50 and still maintain track position over Max.
            The intriguing part for me was why McLaren allowed Lando to stay out on lap 51, 2 laps after Lewis pitted with the info 1) and 2) info above, which were available to ALL teams. And for Lando, having been off at least a couple of times on lap 48, with the conditions worse on lap 49, even if the rain had stopped at the time, the track was too wet at turns 4,5,6-10 to be on slicks…so he should have come in on lap 50 but still refused to come in, and yelling at his race engineer to shut up!
            Both team and driver will learn from this especially with the fact that Daniel in the other car was asking to come in and started doing better lap times than Lando on 49 & 50.

          4. @DonSalsa
            the reason they allowed it was Hamilton had effecticely undercut Norris by then, so coming in means losing the race, the only way to win is to hope the time gained by not stopping is enough to slither to the finish line.

            The lap Hamilton refused to come in was Lando’s chance to stop, get a good outlap and force Hamilton to try to stay out for the win. I wonder what would have happened then… What would Lewis have done had he been in Lando’s position?

      2. @mattds It didn’t exactly help that Lando thought he was Kimi (who in contrast has the experience), and telling the engineer to shut up… At a time when constant information is crucial.

        I get it, he was under immense pressure and close enough to the win to taste it. But he has more to learn from this than the team. Though the team still needs to learn to say “Enough. Pit. Now.”

        1. @losd they were feeding him rubbish. “Cars going off”. Yeah seriously, at that point Lando knew well enough what was happening and he needs all of his concentration to keep a 1000hp car on the black stuff in treacherous conditions.

          How about giving him actual good info, like Mercedes were able to give Lewis?

          Honestly, what can he learn from this? McLaren left the decision for him to take, and he had the same instincts as Lewis did. So then wat else is there to learn? That he can’t trust his team to give him the info he needs? That his team is so mentally fragile they can’t handle their driver telling them to shut up when the info they give is rubbish anyway and does not help him in the slightest?

          1. I watched the final 5 laps of Max on-board on F1TV with the radio feed and he was given the exact same information. They’re giving this information to tell the drivers exactly where other cars are struggling to keep it on track, so the drivers know to expect there to be no braking spot in that turn and to anticipate slowing the car down earlier. Max was being told exactly in which turn other drivers around him were, what tire they were on, what speed they were going, where they were going off.

            Saying the call was the team’s to make and not Lando is also incorrect imo, as you can tell from the article above with Ricciardo and I could tell from the communication between pit wall and Max, it’s the driver that’s the one that has to make this call, they are the ones on track and the ones that can feel the grip levels or not. You can’t see grip levels on a weather radar just as much as you can’t see exact rain intensity to the meter, you need the driver feedback for this.

            Lando, understandably, lost his cool with his eye on winning the race. It was inexperience that lost him this race, as much as it was experience that made Lewis and Max come in to nab the first and second place.

          2. @mattds “cars going off” is a rather important piece of information.

            But sure, they shouldn’t have left it to him at all. It was clear that he was already in over his head.

          3. @sjaakfoo but there’s a difference between being told “turn x and y are slippery” and just the plain “drivers going off” Lando got. He didn’t get any turn number at all.

            Drivers feel CURRENT grip numbers. And for a driver it’s OK until it’s not OK, and then it’s too late. Drivers don’t have the weather forecast so if the track quickly gets worse, like it did yesterday in that final lap he was out, they’ll get caught out. Because anything up to that was OK, but then it’s pouring and it’s not OK but the drivers are left with half a lap to do.

            So no, Lando didn’t lose his cool – when assessing CURRENT grip levels he came to the exact same conclusions as Lewis. But Merc gave Lewis a clear forecast: more rain is coming. McLaren did not do that for Lando.

            Max made a good call. Dan too. Some drivers will make a good guess, others less so. But the point is Mercedes had the info and clearly communicated it to a hesitant driver, and made him come in. And McLaren left their driver without any useful info at all.

          4. @losd maybe if they told him where cars were going off, it would’ve been good info.
            I don’t agree he was in over his head. He was driving well (given the conditions), he was not giving in to Lewis, and he was obviously making the same assessment of the situation as Lewis.

          5. @mattds please re-read the transcript:

            Track very slippery from here to turn 10, lots of cars going off.

            He was specifically told where the track was slippery and cars were going off.

          6. @warheart OK, that is fair enough. I did listen to the team radios at length, but didn’t realise that was said. I stand by all the rest though – Mercedes gave him far more valuable info on the weather outlook and convinced Lewis he needed to pit despite the latter ignoring the first call and wanting to argue about the second one.
            McLaren did not do that for Lando.

            And that was basically why Lando stayed out and Lewis came in.

        2. Agreed. That’s not a way to build a relationship with your engineer. Hamiltons trust in Bonington and his team won him the race. Where as Landos hesitance to the same cost him dearly. I have never heard Hamilton tell Bonnington to shut up once since 2013. Same with Vettel despite all his radio outbursts, he has reacted badly to his engineers. This is a good teaching moment for lando that he needs to build a good rappo with his engineer because they will be working together for a while and thats the most important relationship in F1

          1. I think it was pretty clear that the inters were the right choice. Verstappen was leading Leclerc and pitted 5 laps before the end of the race. A few minutes later, he overtook Perez, Alonso, and Leclerc as 2 of them went into the pits.

            This is the moment where Zak Brown could have gotten on the radio and said “hey Lando, we think the right call is to pit.” but then again I don’t know what data they had and whether Verstappen’s and Bottas’ times were much better before Lando passed the pitstop.

            I think he would have listened to Zak.

          2. @freelittlebirds

            That would have been quite the call from Zak Brown, who I believe was on the other side of the Atlantic watching the Indycar win slip thru the team’s fingers as well.

        3. This is the reason Lando lost the race > “It didn’t exactly help that Lando thought he was Kimi (who in contrast has the experience), and telling the engineer to shut up… At a time when constant information is crucial.”

          The team probably felt he could not process the several inputs and left him alone, Lewis on the other hand due to his experience and brilliance can work several inputs in parallel and Bono has a way of issuing clear orders.

      3. Don’t overthink it. Hamilton had an easy choice to do. He was not able to overtake Norris in the dry and struggle to do it in the rain, especially when it intensified. He was 3s behind when he pitted. This allowed him to make an easy choice to gamble on rain getting stronger with no threat from behind.

        After he switched, he won the race. It’s easy to say the team knew but I wonder what would they do if Versappen was close behind. Remember Hungary where only Hamilton did not pit before the race start.

        1. Before the rain started Hamilton had closed to half a second behind Norris. When he pitted he had cautiously dropped back a few seconds because it was then very slippery and he knew he’d make up time on inters.

        2. Yup, as I recall (and I could be a little wrong) Ham had stopped making inroads on Norris and had a gap behind so gave up nothing by pitting. McLaren/Norris, of course would have thought they were giving up the lead in the race and, in their minds, probably the win to pit before Hamilton

    2. You could see how painful it was, and in his interviews he was honest and open.
      When it comes down to it, the dice were thrown on Sunday, really coming down to whether the rain intensity would increase or not.
      As they finished lap 50, they probably both thought they were slower on slicks, but never going to gain back the 25s pit loss in the next three laps.
      This sort of experience is traded in years, and will give payback only when averaged out over years. As other point out, Hamilton not switching in Hungary shows that no one is a fortune teller, and you are playing the odds all the time.

  2. DRS being disabled should have been the deciding factor.

    1. @jimfromus Good point – certainly an indicator to all drivers that things weren’t getting better!

      Most people that went to the pits had driven off track and that kind of helped their decision making.

      I think Verstappen hadn’t gone off and pitted 5 laps before the end. So did Lewis on lap 4.

      Leclerc and maybe Lando may not have gone off and braved it an extra lap but it was disastrous for both their races.

    2. Improve the article by putting in Hamiltons Radio comments aswell.

  3. technical question: why does RIC need to keep engine over 8k rpm during the in-lap?

    1. They both were told to keep rpm up, probably due engine temps getting cold due weather?

    2. I think it has to do with the minimum revs needed to keep the engine going. I know F1 cars idle at high rpms so I believe it was to prevent the car from shutting off.

    3. @v-i-s I was wondering the same thing, they said it to him during his Monza in lap as well so it must be to do with how they run the PU.

  4. “Okay Lando just to confirm, we have to be able to stay on-track here. Are you happy to stay out on this tyre?”

    This message to Lando during the final driveable slick lap confirms that this was not a gamble that Lando took against his team’s instructions, rather that McLaren were fully on board with the risk-reward balance that Lando was toeing. It also reaffirms that McLaren were oblivious to the heavy rain that would come +/- 1 minute after.

    1. McLaren gave the choice to pit or not. They left it up to the driver shown by the fact that Daniel pitted. Which is the best thing to do in these 50-50 situations because the team is not on track. Only the drivers no the true situation. Some judged the weather well like Ham, Ver, Ric and Rai where as others like Alo, Nor and Lec did not

      1. @fish123 Hamilton did NOT judge the weather well. Mercedes did. They called him in twice. First time Hamilton ignored the call and stayed out. Second time he still wanted to stay out, said the rain had stopped, but Mercedes insisted it would get worse and told him, again, to box.
        Drivers only know the current situation. They know if it’s still doable or not. The thing is it’s doable until it isn’t and then it’s too late.

        Mercedes knew more rain was coming, told Lewis and convinced him to box. McLaren didn’t tell Lando more was coming and left it to him. We see what the actual best thing to do was. Regardless of the fact some drivers did make a good call.

    2. McLaren should have pitted the lap after Lewis and salvage second. I understand Norris being focused on the win, but McLaren should be focused on maximizing points.

      1. I beieve that to be the case also.
        They still have one lap to salvage something. Not pitting before Hamilton I can allow but making him go another tour is just indefensible.

    3. 49 Norris Yeah, shut up!

    4. Yeah, obviously they felt that the intensity would stay the same but Ricciardo felt he can’t keep it on the track.

      I guess even with the same data, your interpretation of it can vary. Other teams felt more rain was coming, some even strongly so. Maybe they can invest a bit into their meteorological team.

  5. Verstappen was able to pass ricciardo and Sainz on his mediums in those circumstances.
    Important because when the pitted, ricciardo and Sainz followed verstappen.

    1. Max had the luxury of seeing Dan and Sainz go off the track and had enough time to slow down after seeing that to avoid making the same error.
      I doubt Max would have kept it on track otherwise

  6. Yeah. When Dan made the call for inters, the team effectively had a split strategy. Some team managers like that play in changeable conditions. I can’t help but notice other teams ended up in the same situation, max changed to inters while sergio stayed out. Carlos changed, leclerc stayed out.

    The key point though is the way Lando bagged his team for not letting him know more rain was coming, whereas Dan boxed when asked to. He could have complained to the media post-race he lost the podium when they arsed up his pitstop, but that’s not his style.

    1. Yep. NOT his style. Totally agree!

  7. I don’t want to bash Norris too much, because he’s a young driver and I’m sure he’ll learn from experiences like this. But I think Ricciardo’s experience really shows here. Ricciardo seemed happy to get all the information while Norris responded with a “shut up”.

    Also, they were both asked whether they want intermediates or not. Ricciardo said yes, while Norris said no. McLaren didn’t make that decision for Ricciardo.

    1. Indeed, but it’s not quite a like for like comparison @hotbottoms as Norris was fighting for the win with Hamilton all over his rear wing. I think the pressure was a little more intense for him. Having said that, I didn’t particularly enjoy listening to Norris losing his cool though and being rude like that, but indeed he is young and won’t treat his engineer like that in the future you would hope. He seems like he is keen to grow up.

    2. Definately Norris acted a bit like a petulant child with his”shut up” and defiant “no” calls.

      Hopefully he’ll learn from this.

      1. You’re exaggerating this. Lando Norris is a professional and elite driver. He’s a grown up man. If in the heat of the battle he says “Shut up!”, because his engineer is not giving him anything of value, than that’s as good as any other wording.

        1. This. And when Kimi says ‘leave me alone’ on the radio after being given similar info in the past, everyone loves it.

          1. At the time Kimi was a multiple GP winner and WDC. Lando not so much.

          2. @greenflag
            I doubt there are many drivers who haven’t, at one point or another, winner or not, WDC or not, told their engineer to shut up because they are distracting them. At the time, Lando was trying to push hard to stay ahead of Lewis in tricky conditions. He was in a completely different situation to Ricciardo and anyone else on the track. Without being in such an intense situation he may have worded it better, but I think people are making far too big a deal of that message.

          3. The world holds its breath awaiting ‘Kimi’ to speak!!!

        2. You’re exaggerating this. Lando Norris is a professional and elite driver. He’s a grown up man. If in the heat of the battle he says “Shut up!”, because his engineer is not giving him anything of value, than that’s as good as any other wording.

          Except that he is a highly visible representative of a large corporation and snapping ‘shut up’ to colleagues providing invaluable information at a critical point in your work day, that is the least professional or grown up thing he could do. He would be instantly dismissed in most corporation.

          Shut up isn’t kind or helpful to any information you exchange, he is just a numpty for saying that.

          1. that is the least professional or grown up thing he could do.

            That’s what the text books say: He should have politely approached the other person, asked if they could have a meeting, and discuss the pro’s and con’s of the communication up until that point.

            But in risky situations (firemen fighting a fire, soldiers on the battlefield, F1 drivers during a race) it is accepted to be more ‘pointy’ as long as you don’t verbally attack the other person.

      2. It all depends where he was in the lap when the transmission happened. If he was in a braking zone or a difficult corner then it was Will’s mistake and an understandable outburst. If he was going down a straight then yeah maybe you can be critical.

        It all depends on the exact context though. Driving a formula one car in the rain on slicks is not easy.

  8. As much as I feel for Lando, I really think it’s fantastic that McLaren have now produced two races where they were at the front on merit. We’re not talking about ‘Formula 1.5’ at the moment. Why is it that just a few months before a big rules change all the teams seem to conveniently converge somewhat.

    I’m sure Lando will lick his wounds and now Ricciardo seems to have gotten to grips with the car, if they’d started like this they could easily be challenging Red Bull in the constructors.

    1. Well I think that’s partly to do with both Mercedes and Redbull not being at the front and racing away from the rest of the field.
      The Mercedes was clearly the faster car in clear air.

  9. This exactly why i said experience counts earlier. People bit my head of when i said Hamiltons devision to pit won him the race. Yes McLaren gave Lando the choice but he refused to pit where as Ricciardo decided to pit for inters like Hamilton. So like it or not this was a well judged win by Hamilton and a day where he won purely because of his experience. Remember Hamilton experiencing something similar to Lando in China 2007?? See the result? Hamiltons now probably the best judge of the weather and one of the best drivers in rain in F1 (japan 14, silverstone 15, brazil 16, germany 18 and russia 21) to name a few

    1. yeah this reminded me of China 2007 too

    2. Decoratieende wil have played a role in it, but please do remember Hamilton wanted to stay out, not pit.
      It’s not like the driver can see the other side of the track or the weather radar.

      Being first, 5 laps from the end of your possible first GP win with another driver on your tail, or second with plenty of margin and fighting for a championship, highly influences the decision you are making.
      And McLaren left the decision up to Norris, where Mercedes instructed Lewis to come in.

  10. McLaren should have known Lewis was eventually going to pit. Lewis absolutely needs to avoid a race-ending crash and getting 0 points, so pitting for inters when cars are flying off the track on slicks is the obvious choice. Lewis is not going to make the China 2007 error again.
    Once they know that Lewis is going to pit, they should ideally pit before Hamilton to keep the win because inters were faster at this point.
    McLaren had all the info (cars flying off the track, Lewis absolutely needing to avoid a crash) yet they allowed Norris to stay out. McLaren lost this race all on their own.

    1. This is a great point. Hamilton was told to pit a lap before, he ignored it, then the team told him to pit again, McLaren should have taken the hint and got Norris to go in as well. This way both would pit at the same time and no risk was taken. They were too afraid that Hamilton will stay out which let them ignore the obvious (Hamilton can’t crash and must protect against Verstappen on inters).

      Such a shame, after Hamilton pitted it was too late to pit.

  11. It is a team sport, and McLaren are not as good as Mercedes.

    Hamilton and Norris wanted to stay out… But only one was ordered, despite protest to come in..

    Mind you at exact time needed.

    If Norris would come in a lap before Lewis, he would have lost the race aswell.

  12. For me it was easy: Hamilton was unable to pass Lando, he was aware that under these conditions (both on slicks) he would finish 2nd anyway. He had clean and healthy gap to 3rd, so he pit and prayed for more rain to come. In this part of the race Mazepin on inters was having same lap times as Lando on slicks, so Ham would finish 2nd anyway, until there’s no more rain.

  13. Lewis pitted because Max did. Lewis’s goal was finishing ahead of Max and once Max stopped, Lewis was 100% going to do the same. What I don’t understand is why no-one in McLaren recognised that. Lando should have and would have pitted at the same time as Lewis.

    McLaren had about 40s to figure this out; for a team with their budget, that’s an eternity. I’m astonished they didn’t manage it.

    No blame here for Lando; he’s still pretty inexperienced, and anyway strategy calls are made by teams, not drivers.

  14. I suspect that it is essential for champions to have a few loses that boost their experience. Champions and future champions either shine in rubbish cars or easily outpace experienced stars. They make mistakes because they put it on the edge.

    The future is going to be Russell v Norris – v Leclerc v Verstappen. I can’t see Danny Ric being faster than Norris just more experienced……at the moment.

  15. I think this is more of Norris’ fault (if you call it a fault). From my point of view it was a situation where teams had to leave the decision to their drivers. And when you hear your driver telling you to shut up on the radio with that much ‘enthusaism’ you dont force him to pit. They told him DRS was disabled, they told him drivers were going off and they told him to box. What more did they need to do? Forcing him to pit would be silly because it wasnt those on the pit wall who was driving the car. (They cant literally force him to pit anyway) It was a 60/40 situation at best and Lando made the wrong call. He is clever enough to learn from this.

  16. “But while McLaren kept Norris aware of other drivers who had fitted intermediates, they did not point out his team mate was one of them. As Norris later revealed he was relying on McLaren’s assessment of the weather to guide his decision, this was a potentially vital piece of information.”

    This is a typical lame attempt of protecting Norris that we are seeing in British media.
    Daniel decided on his own also not knowing what Lando was doing.

    Also the worst thing about Norris decision is not pointed out.
    It is is not that Norris did not decided at right time, but that he insisted to stay out more 3 laps.

  17. It seems weird that there’s no reference to the radar. Surely with that much rain coming the team could have told him it was definitely going to get worse so pit for inters. So frustrating reading the transcript. The experience of ricciardo shows. Lando seemed frazzled. I think the engineer needed to be telling him what to do at that point rather than asking constantly, especially given ricciardo had already made the call to switch.

  18. This is the difference between Lewis and post Ron Dennis McLaren. Lewis with the extra maturity trusted his pit crew and strategists to play it safe with a pit even if he had strong doubts whilst Lando is the ‘smartest person in the room’ wanting to go for fruitless glory and overrode the pit wall and he expert strategists back at base in Woking.

    But again f1 media inc bootlickers like david croft, paul diresta etc on their anti Lewis crusade will dismiss the massive errors made on Landos part ,even if he did pit and Lewis didn’t and the rain eased he would still be 2nd could you imagine if Lewis made this mistake? all of the bitter dog whistling pundits and journalists would rip Lewis but again he is always held to an highter standard .

    1. Lewis with the extra maturity trusted his pit crew and strategists to play it safe

      that’s why he refused to pit…
      The team ordered him to come in.

    2. @ccpbioweapon The difference is though that Hamilton only pitted once he was given adequate information. Ie that rain would pick up and that he had the gap to pit without losing positions.

      While Norris was only asked if he was ok with the current conditions. Which he was until it started to rain a lot harder.

      With the information given to Norris it made more sense to ride it out. While the information Hamilton was given (plus the fact that they told him to come in) made it clear it was the better option to box for inters.

  19. Kinda shows why McLaren brought in Daniel. The communication between Tom and Daniel is something Lando needs to learn from. Daniel’s experience helped McLaren there and they will learn from that, too.

  20. With 3 laps to go, I didn’t think it was unreasonable to let Lando try for the win.

    He’d already missed the window that would have kept him in the lead, and there was a fairly good chance of a few cars spearing off the road and a red flag coming out.

    In the end his gamble didn’t pay off but imagine how the media would have praised him for holding his nerve had he won the race, which, up until the secondary shower, was looking quite possible.

  21. why do they need to keep RPM up and recharge on (battery i presume) at the end of the race?

  22. This is making out as predicting the rain was the driver’s responsibility, and that’s just silly. The only difference here is that Norris was coping with the wet conditions better than Ricciardo, that’s all.

    You could even add to that the fact that midfield teams and drivers always have to go for bold and semi-crazy stuff to even be within a chance of the win, just like Norris did in qualifying, and that was his mindset in trying to brazen it out in the rain.

  23. A tale of two teams, eh? A mark of HAM’s continued incredible luck in 2021 is his pit wall overruling his decision to remain on slicks. On a weekend when he, again, committed costly errors, this time in Q3 as well as in the race start, he somehow lucks into the biggest prize come the Sunday chequered flag…

  24. RIC’s racecraft was a significant factor in the last part of the race.
    Just feel for him that the slow pitstop gave SAI the track position advantage.
    Yes, SAI was 14 secs in front of RIC, but after he quickly caught him up, his tyre advantage was almost gone.

    Question: What is with Damon Hill and his narkiness over RIC??? WOW!!!

  25. I don’t think a driver can or should make a call in a situation like this and describing a call as good or back is meaningless when it’s pure chance. The team are the only ones with knowledge of what the weather might do in the near future, the driver can only tell what’s happening at each exact moment in conditions like we saw in Russia, where a track is going from dry to wet. If a wet track is drying out then the driver is best placed to know when to switch, with some help from team as to what other drivers are doing.

    1. Excellent comment!
      Some here however think a certain driver does everything: develop the car, decide strategy, read the weather radar, etc.

  26. I can’t see why anyone is criticising Norris.
    He was coming across the slow cars around almost every corner before his . “yeah! shut up reply” when told it was slippery and cars have gone off. “yeah” means he knew.
    He actually oversteered at the end of his message.
    Lewis was not answering his engineer. Even when told to box.
    Lewis was eventually told “Verstapen had pitted and looks like Norris will.” “we have a free gap” easy decision then

    On top of that Norris had faster lap times than Lewis, yet the article claims Lewis was in Lando’s mirrors. Lando was clearly pulling away from Lewis’s onboard.

    People have their own truths!

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