Hamilton says racing rules ‘clearly don’t apply to one of us’

2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix

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Lewis Hamilton criticised the enforcement of Formula 1’s racing rules following another contentious encounter with his championship rival in the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix.

Hamilton and Max Verstappen swapped positions several times during the race, but ended up off-track on several occasions. At times Verstappen was advised to let Hamilton pass him, but Hamilton said the application of the rules had not been consistent.

He referred back to another incident between the pair in Brazil, where Verstappen was allowed to stay ahead of his rival despite running wide, taking Hamilton with him.

“I don’t think I’ve changed the way that I race,” said Hamilton. “I think we’ve seen multiple instances this year – even with Brazil – we’re supposed to do our racing on track in between the white lines. And the rules haven’t been clear from the stewards – those things have been allowed, so that’s continued.

“From my understanding, I know that I can’t overtake someone and go off track and then keep the position. I think that’s well known between all us drivers – but it doesn’t apply to one of us, I guess.”

Verstappen, who was given a five-second time penalty and a point on his licence for leaving the track and gaining an advantage at one stage, also criticised the application of the rules during today’s race. The Red Bull driver believes both drivers broke the rules by running wide.

“I find it interesting that I am the one who gets a penalty when both of us run outside of the white lines,” he said.

“In Brazil it was fine and now suddenly I get a penalty for it. Well, you could clearly see both didn’t make the corner.”

He reiterated his complaint that too many penalties have been introduced for incidents in recent races.

“I think lately we’re talking more about white lines and penalties than actually proper Formula 1 racing, and that’s, I think, a little bit of a shame.”

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2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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142 comments on “Hamilton says racing rules ‘clearly don’t apply to one of us’”

  1. It’s hard to disagree with Hamilton. As much as I like Verstappen’s aggressive approach he just doesn’t admit defeat and seems to make no attempt to make the corner in order to maintain his position.

    This is even more than simply drifting wide to ease a competitor out of space, this is braking so late that he’s not even able to make the corner himself. To me, this (and the similar move in Brazil) was a blatant penalty.

    To comment on the “brake testing” incident as well, I actually sympathise with Verstappen and don’t think it was deliberate. He wanted to give the position back before the DRS detection point and did leave Hamilton plenty of space, which Lewis decided not to take as he was confused by what was happening. A racing incident in my book.

    1. What was deliberate on Crashtappens part was sticking to middle of track.

    2. You don’t need to slow from 300 to 100 km/h to allow an overtake.

    3. @ben-n I don’t think Hamilton was confused at all. He’s smart enough to figure it out. Putting on an act after the race of course, as he always does.

      Other than that I fully agree. Very disappointing to see this conduct again from Max. Fair to assume he will never change this, as he is fully convinced this is what hard racing is supposed to look like. Very Schumacher-esque.

      If they start first and second in Abu Dhabi, I fully expect for at least one of them not to finish the race.

      I already have images in my head of Max celebrating a championship win before getting disqualified for his offenses. Lets hope it doesn’t get to that and we can have a proper fight.

      1. Agree with the disqualification point you made..

        However, we can’t and won’t have a proper fight because Hamilton’s car is much more superior. So it’s possible the race will unfold similarly as today, Hamilton passing Max some time during the race. If they crash, I also expect Max to be disqualified from the whole championship actually, similar to Schumacher in 97.

        There is a chance it might happen, but then again, if I was in Max’s shoes, I would be frustrated as hell that whatever i do, however faultlessly i drive during the whole race, I can’t shake Hamilton off and he will eventually pass me. How frustrating must that be. If you played an F1 game, you would change the AI difficulty settings and start the race again in an attempt to win it (yeah, sometimes I get that desperate :)) But you can’t do it here.. Also to be noted, Max is only 24 years of age, he is still very young and this is the 1st time he is under such pressure. When you think of everything that is being done also on social media. I was so upset when I read, that Verstappen can claim the title in this race already and all the scenarios on how it can happen – and it was just a 100% sure this can’t happen, because Hamilton’s car does not break down and he is smart enough to avoid collisions (how that front wing survived that crash is beyond me)..

        So yeah, Abu Dhabi, bring it on! I am ready to suffer yet again watching Lewis winning his 8th title. I do not see a different outcome, sadly..

        1. he keeps on dodging all that pressure talk but its clearly visible that he is ratteld every time lewis is behind, its clear that max is one of the best but on some lewis’ calibre?, I would say NO cus if lewis had the fastest package it would’ve been done 3 races ago.smh

        2. we can’t and won’t have a proper fight because Hamilton’s car is much more superior.

          At this stage of the season I agree the Mercs seem to have the Red Bull on the ropes the past hree races. But comeon, Red Bull have had at the very least a 50/50 car the majority of the season. I think it was more 55/45 and Max also had countless opportunities to make the smart decisions.

          Also, you can conversely argue that we can’t have a clean fight because

          Max is happy to crash his way to the championship


        3. Mercedes is faster in this last bit of the season but Red Bull has been the best car for the bulk of this championship and at this stage it’s not like they car cannot compete, Max was quick in Saudi Arabia and almost scored another pole …

          1. @jcost Precisely, Max had every chance to secure pole. In the actual race, Red Bull still could have put Max on hard tyres too at the restart and he could have focused on making a clean pass and then keeping Hamilton behind through pace and tyre management. But no.

      2. I agree Ben

        The DRS repass reminds me of Spa 08. Not leaving sufficient time to attempt overtaking again after allowing another driver past. There should be something in rules – if not citing Spa 08 as a precedent for allowing the passing driver to continue racing before immediately passing at the next corner

      3. Hamilton vs Alonso
        Hamilton vs Rosberg,
        Hamilton vs Vettel,
        Hamilton vs Verstappen…
        It is always the fault from ‘the other guy’ if you look at it with Lewis’s glasses on.
        Fact is Mr Hamilton is playing the act of being a saint, but you need to be a special kind of priest to believe…

    4. AJ (@asleepatthewheel)
      6th December 2021, 4:38

      With the amount of VSCs in the race, LH probably thought there was another one which is why Max slowed down. This was pointed out by Brundle. Obviously Lewis wasn’t informed Max was letting him by.

      1. i have watched motor f1 for quite a while and never seen any body stop mid track they either pull to one side or other it was deliberate lewis was in his slip stream and was about to come out and overtake till max breaked and caused the collision

        1. There was no need to Hamilton to be in behind Verstappen though – Verstappen was slowing, Hamilton didn’t need to slipstream him to pass.

      2. agree with you AJ, then Mercedes could be at fault for not passing message to the driver fast enough, and any excuse is lame as all are listening on the FIA radio at the same time

    5. It was deliberate. The reason he sat and weaved in the middle of the track was to kill Hamilton’s momentum so he could not even go past with any reasonable speed. He was timing the pass which was why he bolted immediately after there was contact made, because he mistimed his action.

      1. I totally agree with you MV knew exactly what he was doing he could see LH coming he braked tested him and he was ready for the crash and accelerated away hoping LH would have to slow down. VH is calculating he as crashed into cars in the and most times has came off best

    6. Max is super quick and his ability to drive fast in undeniable but he must sharpen up his driving standards. We all know Senna, Prost, Schumi and other from the past took it a bit too far to win races but it’s in the past and Max should stop going off the track to keep position pretty much every single time someone overtakes him.

      1. A driver attempting to pass Max appears to have two choices:

        1. Crash
        2. Undercut him via a pitstop

        Similarly, if Max is trying to overtake another driver they have two choices:

        1. Crash
        2. Yield

        I’ve enjoyed watching Max race over the years and at the start of this season really hoped that he’d win the Championship. You have to admire his aggression and his total commitment but he has genuinely now crossed a line. Unfortunately the Stewards have exacerbated the situation with inconsistency and, in the case of Brazil, unfathomable decisions which appear more about keeping the show alive than fairness.

        1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
          6th December 2021, 13:27


          yeah, which means that Max is no longer a F1 race driver. There has to be a situation where another driver can make an overtake or defend on track.

          1. Stewards made him believe he can defend his position by going off, lets see if they had enought (at last).

    7. Yeah, I really think Hamilton has a good point there @ben-n.

      I also agree with you on the accident where the two of them hit each other. I do think Verstappen was maybe trying to be a bit cheeky (giving up the position in a place where he could then overtake shortly after by using DRS, much like he did later in the race), and was not as clear in giving up the position (he was still driving somewhat in the middle of the track, not completely to the side). But it happened more because Hamilton had not been told and wasn’t expecting him to give the place up there.

    8. No, it is not. Verstappen gets penalties for the exact same moves Hamilton does not. Yellow flags, inspecting other cars, squeezing drivers off track, hitting opponents. Hamilton even rammed the back of Verstappen and Verstappen was the one getting a penalty.
      It is undeniable that Verstappen is absolutetly unforgiving, he is even more determined to not getting past than Lewis, frankly it is unbelievable Max has not crashed into Lewis, even in Monza, they banged wheels. Generally he has had the upper hand over Hamilton and I think that is what people dislike about his racing as they both race the same.

      1. Andy (@andyfromsandy)
        6th December 2021, 13:25

        Do you agree that Max gained a lasting advantage and had to give the place back?

        Unfortunately soon after the event the race was stopped and Masi called RBR to suggest they give the place back at the restart.

      2. LOL He Brake Tested Hamilton the Data Back’s it up which was why he got the Penalty, I’m not a fan of either but come on you can’t be blind to the Facts the data showed 2.4g In Deceleration! Max is just a Dirty Driver not respect to anyone dangerous to the extreme he would rather crash than let someone past.

        He needs to be Banned for a bit give him time to reflect on how dangerous he has become.

  2. F1 will have a lot to answer for about why the penalties have been so lenient for Verstappen just because he’s in the title fight and they want those exciting final races with the championship on the line.

    There is absolutely no integrity.

    It’s pretty clear that Verstappen took multiple opportunities to attempt a torpedo into Hamilton. If it was anyone else not in the title fight there would be a race ban.

    1. I totally agree and I hate the “let them settle it on track” attitude when one (sometimes both) does something dodgy. I have no question in my mind that if the Verstappen move on Hamilton in Brazil was someone like Gasly on Ocon, “Gasly” would have a got a penalty.

      It smacks of double standards and I can’t stand it. I almost wonder if the stewards shouldn’t be watching the race and simply get shown black and white footage of incidents with logo’s and helmets blocked out! Make the decisions impartially with no favouritism or situational leniency there.

      1. Sadly that is exactly what the wishy washy stewarding and the regard the stewards and the FIA seem to have to “preserve the fight” when a clear infraction would have demanded a clear penalty and could have avoided much worse later on @skipgamer. I like your suggestion there @ben-n, not sure how to do it, but it would certainly be worth a go.

  3. Verstappen has denied the pressure has been affecting him all season long, and his performances have backed that up. This penultimate race he really seems to have let the tension of the title battle and maybe Hamilton’s persistence affect him.

    I hope that doesn’t result in an over-reaction in the last race. Really want to see that settled on the track without collisions and penalties.

    1. His performances might “have backed that up” but his conduct has been disgraceful. This incident isn’t isolated, and I’m surprised he was even allowed to finish this race, let alone some of the others.

    2. Right … He will only try to act nonchalant in front of the press.

      In the real world, gone are the superlative overtakings he did like the one is Spa. All we see are substandard dirty race crafts that shd have got him banned long ago.

      1. The one where he overtook by going off track with all 4 wheels unpunished?

    3. Andy (@andyfromsandy)
      6th December 2021, 13:31

      There seemed quite a lot of frustration on the radio.

      Normally racers want to get on with things but some gamesmanship from Hamilton and Bottas got to him.

  4. Nell (@imabouttogoham)
    6th December 2021, 3:08

    Could someone please explain to me Verstappen’s gripe? Was it when Lewis hung him out to dry in the last corner?

    1. Alternative facts. He’s claiming Hamilton went off track to defend. Which is simply false.

      What’s really nuts is that Brazil was not even investigated, then they get religion here about passing and defending off the track. So I suppose max is like a child who is suddenly told not sweets before dinner when he already has a mouthful of candy. Blame him and blame the officiating.

    2. Despite launching his car long after he had lost the corner and attempting to take the outside line from far back.

  5. Over all Verstappen had a shocker! Drove recklessly and as usual his team pushed him to do more and he was happy to oblige, culminating in him brake testing Hamilton, I don’t have high hopes for next week.
    The 10 second penalty is a weak punishment given that it apply’s to today’s race not next weeks meaning no penalty at all. No surprise really as they don’t want to make the Abu Dhabi race a dead rubber.

    But the biggest non surprise is the weakness was shown by Massi in actually negotiating with RB over Verstappens off track overtake on Hamilton. RB initially were offered second place at the restart pushing Hamilton back to third.
    Yes they got it right eventually but to negotiate the punishment with the perpetrator after a clear breach of the rules in an attempt to appease RB and Verstappen is too much.
    I would like to hear Mercs/Wolff’s thoughts on that matter :)

    1. That negotiation in itself is sacrilege, no penalty issued. Next time everybody should drive like that, worse case you only have to give the place back. Best case you may get away with it … HURRAY!!!

    2. @johnrkh the “offer” from Masi was basically “take the grid drop or I’ll refer this to the stewards, which will probably end up worse for you”

    3. Hands up who thinks Verstappen will “accidentally” cause a collision with Hamilton on Sunday.

      If he does that would put the Championship outcome in the hands of the Stewards, which is something they really, really wouldn’t want! On recent form they’d chicken out.

      1. How is that any different to when Hamilton “accidently” crashed into Verstappen in Silverstone robbing him of at least 18 points. Hopefully the same will apply and Max will get a 10 second penalty.

      2. Championship outcome in the hands of the Stewards

        I wonder what would happen if Max did intentionally drive into the side of Lewis and took them both out. He can’t get a time penalty in the race (as he is no longer in the race) and they can’t apply a penalty to the next race (being the last race of the season). Would be a very difficult place for the stewards to be in.

      3. And soon afterwards we will see Kangaroo court similar to one from 97.

  6. I think the problem with the issuing of penalties and communication is largely that the teams are an intermediary between the drivers and the stewards. I think things would have gone alot better in the race if stewards could just issue penalties and warnings directly to the driver like a ref in basketball or football. e.g “Hamilton catch up to Verstappen on the formation lap now if you wish to avoid a time penalty” or “Verstappen relinquish position to Hamilton now for going off track”. The problem at the moment is that the stewards tell the team their decision, the team appeals, the stewards demand compliance, the team tells the driver about the penalty five minutes after the offending event, the driver schemes how best to minimise the damage of the penalty, stuff like this race happens.

    1. In this case the driver is told how best to strategically minimize the damage.

      1. That is true, the team would come up with the strategy. All the more reason to remove them from the penalty equation. To apply my analogy, you wouldn’t ref a basketball game by speaking with the team’s coach about a foul against a player and then let that team decide when it best suits them to serve the penalty, the foul just is applied then and there.

    2. This is actually a fantastic point and one F1 should seriously consider.

    3. Andy (@andyfromsandy)
      6th December 2021, 13:37

      In other races drivers have known to give a place back and done so. Teams have got on the radio before Masi to advise the driver to give the place back.
      When Max was advised to give the place back in Bahrain or get a penalty his first thought was he could out drive the penalty.
      Maybe he thought he might be able to do the same again.

  7. What Verstappen is tapping into is arguably one of the most typical of Formula 1 traits at the sharp end of things – making everything so ambiguous and difficult for your competitor, by both fair means and foul, that you bring the stewards into it time and time again and turn what should be a straight-up battle on a race track into a political tit-for-tat that tries the patience of all watching.

    Time and time again he has forced his competitor(s) to yield or make contact, refusing to back down even when well beaten, most recently out-braking himself to appear closer than he actually is and inevitably driving completely off track without consequence from either steward or barrier(!). He obfuscates and muddies typically mundane interactions e.g. giving up a place, refusing to do anything cleanly in order to gain an advantage even when ostensibly being punished for his own poor driving, and it is this, coupled with his obnoxious, myopic team principal, that has slowed poisoned the well of good will his talent (and ‘breath of fresh air’ potential) had afforded him.

    1. Well-said!!

    2. Well said.

    3. AND THEN …. complain that the stewards were killing the sports when penalised!

      1. In due time he will resort to racist name calling as well.

      2. That’s what bullys do.

    4. So, in summary, Max has become the Donald Trump of F1?

      1. If anything, even less likeable.

    5. nicely put :-)

    6. Reminds me of Hamilton when against Rosberg.

    7. well said you are so right

    8. Youre comment should be the comment of the whole Saudi Arabia GP weekend!

  8. He doesnt like penalties when applied to him, he doesnt want any penalty for demolition derby runs of his… he is in the wrong sport for his desires… he is someone not to be overtaken god forbid, he will take you down for trying, god forbid if you try to block him!

    I cant blame him, as he is being treated like a 5yr old boy in the body of a 25! every bad thing he does, he gets a path on the back… good job max taking ham out, massive job max pushing ham off, well done max lunging on the inside better than japanese kamikaze divers, super job max overtaking outside the track and dangerously joining and forcing ham of max…

    and….. we will give you candies if you take out ham on the final race max… this seems now inevitable… since nothing he does gets punished to prevent further incidents, but rather rewarded!

    1. Like Hamilton did at Silverstone you mean? It’s worth it apparently. I hope Hamilton will be taken out. He doesn’t deserve this title.

  9. They let Max do whatever he want on the track for six years, why would he change now?

    Go back to ’16 and he was moving under braking against Rosberg, Kimi, Vettel, Hamilton and even Ricciardo, his teamate. Zero penalties given for a clear illegal and dangerous move.

    The guy is absolutely unable to have a clean clash with anyone. I can’t even picture him having battles like Hamilton and Perez in Brazil or Turkey. IT NEVER HAPPENED with him.

    I got to say i got sick of this being considered showmanship or whatever quality and being endorsed and allowed. And encouraged by his team.

    He tried to cause a collision with Hamilton at least FOUR TIMES on the same race. This can’t be acceptable, this isn’t what Formula One is about.

    1. Well said.

  10. “I find it interesting that I am the one who gets a penalty when both of us run outside of the white lines,” he said.

    Lewis was over the line to avoid the Verstappen Torpedo.

    The guy is nuts.

  11. Give up the charade Verstappen. You’re not fooling anyone anymore trying to rebrand the lack of clean racecraft as “hard racing”. Try to keep your car on track for once when defending, for heaven’s sake!

  12. Rent free

  13. LibFlix “drama”?
    Messy “negotiating” with team over a blatant foul.
    Taken F1 to a despicable new low.

  14. Chris (@tophercheese21)
    6th December 2021, 6:49

    Max has shown time and again, particularly this season, that fair and respectful racing is not something he’s willing to undertake.

    His attempts to outbreak are a desperate attempt to never ever lose position, even if it means crashing into his opponent.

    If he becomes world champion, he will undoubtedly be the most classless, petulant and dirty champion in the sports history.

  15. Your nor meant to gain a lasting advantage when letting your opponent back through.
    Clearly doing it just before the DRS is.
    Again we are going to have to have a new rule brought in due the unsportsmanlike behaviour of Red Bull.

  16. The problem is not Max, the problem is the FIA, the race director and the Stewards.
    They don’t even try to pretend they are running a professional sport, they blatantly allow rules to be broken and pass selective judgements.

    Hamilton comming close to a black flag for being ahead and taking turn one with a driver coming from far behind on the outside. Is that a joke?

    1. RC was really doing strange things, the Stewards i couldn’t fault then in this case.

      I found it strange Lewis could leave more then 10 place (was 25+) to the restart. Then i heard that rule doesn’t apply on a restart which is strnage to have two different rules on the same thing. Max thought it was forbidden todo that.
      These kind of things i wonder who wrote the rule books…

      1. Then understand the rules.
        Another thing to note is, even if a driver falls back by more than 10 car lenghts, he can still accelerate and brake hard to still end up on the grid faster than if he was slowly cruising from 10 car lenghts.

      2. @macleod – there was nothing strange with “no 10 places” rule in this case, if logic is applied. Because this is a standing restart, so the guys in the back don’t lose time. Whereas what Vettel did in 2010 in Hungary is deliberately slowed down the entire field, for which he got a penalty.

  17. “we’re supposed to do our racing on track in between the white lines”

    So like in Bahrain where he went fully of 29 times and when Red Bull asks for clarification all of a sudden it’s not allowed anymore by the stewards?

    He’s right about this though: “but Hamilton said the application of the rules had not been consistent.”
    This whole season is tainted by the stewards. Sometimes in Hamilton’s favour, sometimes in Verstappen’s favour.

    1. Andy (@andyfromsandy)
      6th December 2021, 13:45

      AFAIK turn 4 in Bahrain was not considered for track limits. So for 29 laps Lewis went over the line. Every car on track at that time could of done exactly the same thing. RBR get upset when they realise they missed a trick and get Masi on the blower. Masi then calls a stop to going wide at turn 4.

      None of this has anything to do with Max overtaking off track and gaining a lasting advantage.

  18. As much as I applaud Max’s performance over this season, his aggressiveness is what is ultimately going to cost him dearly.

    Coupled with the officials putting themselves in this position with lack of consistency with the rules.

    It was bound to happen, thankfully no one was hurt.

    1. Andy (@andyfromsandy)
      6th December 2021, 13:50

      I was thinking the stewards were applying the rules with drivers pushing others off track but it was the Brazil incident that was the anomaly.

      This then leads Max to think it is okay. It was this that Danny and others commented on quite vocally when at Qatar. It was made clear I believe at Qatar that future incidents will not necessarily be looked at in the same way as was dealt with at Brazil.

  19. Lewis Hamilton is the most abrasive driver to compete in Formula One.

  20. Why are there brakes on each car?
    Why are there corners on a track?
    Why are there corners with time penalties?

  21. I think Verstappen’s conduct was over the line, but he did give the positions back when asked, so surrendered the advantage he gained from his transgressions.

    The two other decisions I don’t understand were why Hamilton wasn’t also penalised for forcing Max off at the last corner, and why Bottas wasn’t penalised for slowing down way more than 10 car lengths behind Hamilton when the first safety car came (and also for blocking and clipping Raikkonen during qualifying).

    1. Davethechicken
      6th December 2021, 11:23

      When Max yielded the rule is he must not overtake for 2 corners so why was he trying to go around the outside of Hamilton in the first place! They hadn’t even gone round one corner!
      Why would Hamilton take a penalty for that when Max was yet again breaking the rules??
      If the rule was applied consistently Max would have had a 25sec penalty for repassing and be 4th!

  22. I am aware I am not objective, as none of us is, but I try to remove the emotion as much as I can. I see a lot of complaints and comments about people who are (understandably) angry.

    1. “Hamilton drove into Verstappen deliberately”. This is an easy one, this cannot be true. First because he took avoiding action and second he had nothing to gain from a double dnf.

    2. “Verstappen braketested Hamilton”. This could very well be true. But to me it seemed as a case of neither one wanting to reach the DRS line first. In the end Verstappen did indeed brake but it is hard to decide whether it was to brakecheck Hamilton or whether he did it because of the DRS line

    3. “Verstappen weaved and therefore they crashed”. I have seen no footages of that. It could be the case, but I don’t see it. This footage may show some very small weaving though, but it’s hard to see: https://youtu.be/vRhhS6BnLSY?t=294

    4. “Verstappen didn’t leave enough room for Hamilton”. That is factually not true. He was driving closer to the right wall than the left wall, with the ideal line being on the left. He was fully off the racing line. See also https://youtu.be/vRhhS6BnLSY?t=294

    5. “Verstappen should be disqualified”. I cannot think of a situation where a driver was disqualified for ‘braking suddenly or erraticly’.

    6. “You cannot let someone pass and overtake immediately”. Surely Verstappen should have known that, he must know the aftermath of Spa 2008. But he must also know that it would probably only cost him 5 or 10 seconds, so objectively it was better for him to try to stay ahead.

    7. “Verstappen attempts to torpedo into Hamilton”. I don’t see examples of that. He does have the ‘let me by or we crash’ approach, but I don’t see him aiming for Hamilton”

    I really don’t like how Verstappen is driving, I think he is way too aggressive. But the penalties he is receiving are consistent with previous rulings. I just don’t hope he deliberately crashes Hamilton out in Abu Dhabi. Previous ruling say (Schumacher 1997), that you can (should?) be disqualified for the whole season and that would really be an anti-climax.

    1. Personally I would love to see verstappen out for a whole season. His driving style has ruined the integrity of the sport

      1. He wouldn’t be ‘out’ for a season, rather his entire 2021 points haul would be wiped out and Hamilton would win by default.

        Frankly, I’d love it to happen, purely for RBR management to end up with egg on their face for throwing everything into the season for nothing and suffering for next year as a result, but it would really delegitimise Hamilton’s 8th championship and frankly, ruin the general goodwill the series has built up with new fans it’s drawn in during the last few years…

        …but then is it a sport or a reality TV show?

    2. I don’t necessarily agree with all of your points but I like the fact that you’re genuinely trying to be objective.

      It’s a real shame but it looks like the negativity that is Red Bull Racing has finally rubbed-off on Max. Always playing the victim card yet is generally the one who appears to be crossing the boundaries of fair racing.

      1. @sonnycrockett I am forcing myself to be (trying to be) objective, because with Verstappen I always react emotionally. I am constantly in two minds about Verstappen. I really don’t like his aggression, because I feel he is crossing the line more and more and further and further. But at the end of the day, I always want him to win even though I dislike him. Call it nationalism I guess.

        1. Davethechicken
          6th December 2021, 11:28

          Kind of sums up the problems with the world.
          Support “usuns” no matter what as they are always better than “themuns”

    3. @matthijs That argument for disqualification is that Verstappen deliberately caused a collision, which is utterly unacceptable.

      1. @fluxsource You are not stating a fact, but an opinion. So I cannot argue with you on that

        1. @matthijs He’s stating fact though. The stewards looked at the data and concluded he suddenly stomped on the brakes decelerating at 2.4G when Hamilton was already close behind him.

          Are you seriously going to pretend he did that with no malice in mind?

          1. @f1osaurus Fact is that he braked ‘erratic’. Whether that was done to deliberately cause a collision or to make sure that Hamilton was ahead before the DRS detection point is not sure, so not a fact. Also, ‘suddenly stomping the brakes’ is also an opinion. Full braking is over 5G and around or even over 100 kilos (fact).

            Are you seriously going to pretend he did that with no malice in mind?

            Also an opinion, as you can read I am trying to stay away from interpretation as much as I can (which is difficult I know).

          2. @aapje For calling a spade a spade? Weak is hiding behind some sort of ideologic high horse nonsense pretending you can’t give an opinion on a driver stomping on the brakes on a straight with a car close behind just so you don’t have to admit that your idol was “brake testing” another driver.

          3. @f1osaurus

            You’ve never had an ounce of ability to look beyond the point of view that most favors your driver, so…

          4. @aapje I’m perfectly capable of looking at facts. The problem is that you are not and are confused thinking that your ill conceived opinions are somehow fact.

            You have no clue what you are talking about, are poorly informed in general and then out from all that form some sort of fan based opinion. When someone points out the facts to you, you simply ignore those and pretend you are right anyway. It’s just sad.

            But sure pretend that people like me who actually post founded replies and facts are just as grossly out of touch as you are from under your bridge.

          5. @f1osaurus

            You don’t even understand my comments and get confused when I discuss two different moments a few seconds apart. So well informed…

          6. @aapje I did understand and I had that covered in my reply. I also understand that you try to move the goalposts. Also a marked trait of the Verstappen hooligans when called out.

          7. @f1osaurus

            You clearly didn’t understand that I was talking about the earlier braking, but your dishonesty is legendary, so you won’t admit to it.

          8. @aapje I did and like I said, I covered that already.

            Let me copy that for you since your reading comprehension seems challenged:

            The fact that he slowed down to collect Hamilton close behind himself up front only makes it worse

            Pro tip, slowing down in an F1 car does not even necessitate braking. In fact there was no mention of “braking” before the brake test in the stewards report. Only wordings like “lessened his acceleration” and “decelerated further”.

            Either way saying that he didn’t “suddenly brake” as your opening sentence when Verstappen was penalized exactly for that is just daft.

            Do you understand now how dumb you were? Or do I need to explain further? You know what, I doubt you ever will. So let’s leave it at that whether you get it or not.

          9. @f1osaurus

            You didn’t ‘cover’ anything when you accused me of being inconsistent, where you compared two sentences that were about different parts of the event.

            Fact is that there was a lot of braking from long before Lewis got close to Max. In fact, they both slowed down from 300 to 150. Then the second braking event brought them from 150 to 100. It is quite peculiar that Lewis didn’t overtake during that first braking period, but chose to stay behind Max.

            The fact that this first braking period happened, means that Lewis wasn’t surprised by braking out of nowhere, because Max had braked and Lewis had already responded by slowing down. It seems rather obvious to me that if a car brakes a lot without there being a clear reason why they stopped breaking, you might expect them to brake again. In any case, this is different from truly sudden braking, where the front car diverges from normal racing to brake very hard with a car just behind. They both had stopped racing normally by the time they came together.

            Again, you took my statement about that first part and accused me of lying about the second part, that the sentence was not about. In fact, you did so again in this comment. So you either are extremely dishonest or incapable of reading. In any case, you cannot be reasoned with.

            Do you understand now how dumb you were?

            The sad part is that you don’t seem to understand how much a fool you make of yourself.

          10. @aapje

            You didn’t ‘cover’ anything when you accused me of being inconsistent

            It quite clearly does. The fact that you cannot read and are generally clueless makes it so you don’t understand anything.

            Stop drinking the cheap beer in large quantities maybe?

        2. @matthijs Noted – I was just pointing out the calls for disqualification weren’t coming out of nowhere. I guess it depends if there’s a more suitable clause he is said to have breached, rather than ‘erratic’ driving.

          1. @fluxsource I understand the calls for a dq. Max seems to be bending rules to his liking, I wouldn’t be surprised if he will be diagnosed with narcisism in the future. I am afraid he will not use a dq to contemplate on what he should change.

  23. No rule ever applied to the cranemaster, better shut up than remove all doubt

    1. Still salty about that crane in 2007. Wow. Also he finished 11th in that race as I’ve pointed out to you before.

      1. Also he finished 11th

        and how is that relevant?

  24. So Lewis is allowed to pass someone by giving them no space and therefore running them off the track but no one else is allowed to.

    Lewis admitted he wasn’t told by his team that max is going to let him by. Why isn’t that part looked at as irresponsible by Mercedes and given part Blame for that incident.

    I know most reasonable places in the world that if you rear end someone, It’s your fault. Coming from do far back you can see a car moving slow. For simply hitting into that car you should be penalized. But Hamilton don’t get looked at like that. So it’s not even a matter to watch the last race, Lewis will be given the championship in the stewards room.

    1. Baffling analysis. The guy hits the brakes right in front of you on the straight and it’s your fault. Then the claim that they are handing Hamilton the championship after a meaningless ten second penalty for a move that would usually only be found in stock car racing, or moreso banger racing.

      Thankfully most people are starting to see this type of bully like driving for what it is, Max has been brought up this way sadly I even feel a bit sorry for him.

      1. @john-h

        But Max didn’t suddenly hit the brakes. He was braking for a long time and instead of passing, Hamilton braked along with him, rather than passing. Perhaps Max braked suddenly at that point, but it was clear from Lewis’ braking that he had noticed Max slowing down earlier.

        1. @aapje Wow the mental gymnastics you go through:

          But Max didn’t suddenly hit the brakes

          Perhaps Max braked suddenly at that point

          So which is it?

          Lets see shall we?:

          the key point for the Stewards was that the driver of car 33 then braked suddenly (69 bar) and significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration.

          Ah ok. So it was suddenly and significantly

          The fact that he slowed down to collect Hamilton close behind himself up front only makes it worse.

          1. @f1osaurus

            I’m talking about two different moments, which you should understand if you actually read what I write. Max gradually brakes from over 300 km/h to 150 km/h at first, which causes Lewis to brake as well, although Lewis doesn’t brake hard enough to keep the distance. Then it seems that Max brakes harder or again, perhaps in response to the DRS marker.

            You can’t know what Max was thinking at that point or what he saw. Your accusation is based on a bunch of assumptions (that he knew Lewis position and trajectory and considered that while braking & that he braked as much as he intended to). Perhaps he simply couldn’t imagine Lewis staying behind him while going merely 100 km/h and expected him to already be overtaking. Or perhaps he wanted to force Lewis to overtake and expected him to be able to go around.

            The fact that he slowed down to collect Hamilton close behind himself up front only makes it worse.

            This is clearly your bias talking, because the road is wide enough at this point and the speeds slow enough, that Lewis didn’t have to stay behind Max. Lewis chose to not overtake or drive at an offset, but to stay behind Max.

            That you can’t understand that trying to let someone past who apparently doesn’t want to overtake can put the rear car just behind the front car, without the front driver wanting that, demonstrates your bias.

          2. @aapje Yeah sure.

        2. Obviously I’m referring to the second time @aapje, when Lewis moves to the left to actually overtake him and Max slams on the brakes.
          We’ve had our disagreements in the past over certain things around Max, but I’m surprised even you haven’t called a spade a spade here. Hitting the brakes on a straight with a car right behind you is not acceptable, not even in stock car racing let alone F1. Really disappointed in this reply.

          1. @john-h

            You’ve repeatedly, when I am simply trying to correct the facts and/or figure out what happened, started accusing me of defending it, when I have never said that what Max did was right. This is utterly unfair and tiresome.

            This site is filled to the brim with Lewisfans that make all kinds of ridiculous accusations and gang up on those who disagree. This kind of behavior commonly bullies others off sites and results in echo chambers.

            I’m just trying to prevent this site from crossing the barrier where it just becomes a fan zone for one driver.

            Hitting the brakes on a straight with a car right behind you is not acceptable

            This is a peculiar situation though, with the rear car choosing to drive far below their capability to stay behind the front car. It suggests that they were playing chicken, because neither car seemed to be racing. This is quite common in cycling, where it is highly advantageous to approach the finish line in second, so if two riders approach the finish with a big gap to others, they often slow down to try to force the other to take the lead. Obviously, the DRS detection zone creates a similar incentive to cross a threshold in second.

            Anyway, what happened is very different from the rear driver driving up close to the front driver to make a pass and the front driver braking before the braking zone. I would say that they both contributed to this situation, although Max probably braked too hard, so I would say that it’s 80/20 on him vs Lewis.

            Obviously I’m referring to the second time @aapje, when Lewis moves to the left to actually overtake him and Max slams on the brakes.

            Lewis only seems to start to move aside when Max has started to brake again or perhaps they acted at very same time.

            It’s also peculiar that Lewis stops braking just before hitting Max, but perhaps this was involuntary. Still, he might have cleared him if he kept breaking.

          2. Unfair and tiresome? Let me quote you directly (you can scroll up to read what you said):

            “But Max didn’t suddenly hit the brakes”

            My reply was to say that well actually he did, and then this bizarre reply from you about people ganging up like bullies? There’s nothing more for me to say, perhaps I can agree with you with some of your latter comments with regards the timing of it (I don’t think Max meant for Lewis to hit him as I’ve stated elsewhere), but please don’t accuse me of being a bully because I really am not and I refute that strongly. I’m just going to give up again here, I don’t want to get drawn into something with you again, I really don’t.

          3. @john-h

            See my comment to f1osaurus.

            Fact is that Max braked from 300 to 150 and that Lewis responded by braking as well, but choosing to stay behind Max. This meant that both had stopped racing normally and that Lewis was aware that Max was slowing down way more than normal, before Max braked again.

            This meant that it was not sudden as in coming out of nowhere.

            If I’m in traffic and see someone braking quite a bit for no clear reason, then I would definitely take that as a sign that they may brake again and I’m going to keep my distance. In general, I’m quite amazed how little interest there is on this forum in Lewis’ thought pattern, because I think that it only makes sense if Lewis knew that Max wanted to force him to cross the DRS line first, but Lewis was determined not to (although people can act irrationally as well, of course).

            Of course, if Lewis was playing that game, then you can assign some blame to him as well, especially if you assume that there is an obligation to actually pass, when another driver is told to let you past, which makes sense.

            this bizarre reply from you about people ganging up like bullies

            I’ve seen 5 people ganging up on a single comment, worse than it’s ever been. I get that you may not understand how forums go to the crapper and that due to your bias, you might not see this as a problem, since the other side tends to get bullied way more.

            I think that it is happening and that the kind of comment up that you demand of me, encourages more of this.

            And the reason why I made the comment is because you were accusing me. This is a common pattern with you, where you demand that I make certain statements, I explain why I don’t and you then call my explanation bizarre. If you don’t want these kind of explanations, perhaps you should stop accusing other commenters.

          4. “This is a common pattern with you, where you demand that I make certain statements, I explain why I don’t and you then call my explanation bizarre.”

            I’ve never had a problem with anyone on this site since 2008 as much as you, maybe that might say something about you not me given quite how many people I have interaction with on this site. You seem to continually play some sort of victim card, accusing people of being bullies which couldn’t be further from the truth. Just because many people reply to you because of what you say on here, doesn’t mean people are ‘ganging up on you’. You say something that isn’t true, I literally quote it back to you to refute what you say, and then you say that it is a common pattern with me that I ‘accuse’ people of things.

            I never said that what Lewis did wasn’t a little questionable, far from it, but the way Max hit the brakes the second time was not expected at all and caused the contact. It was sudden braking, whether it was the second time he braked or not, and you said it wasn’t sudden braking.

            Please, I really give up this time.

          5. “due to your bias”

            There is no bias here @aapje. It was sudden braking, even the stewards said it this time.

    2. It also reminds me of those ‘whiplash’ insurance claims where the driver in front hits the brakes then blames you. Comical.

      1. You nailed it. I think any rational person who drives and also follows F1 and understands the rules of both the pubic road, and motor racing, watching that can only draw the conclusion that Max is a dangerous driver who was trying to cause an accident.

    3. I’d love to be in the same parallel universe as you are: where Hamilton is favoured by the stewards.

      In the universe everybody else is in, it is a lot worse: the stewards are actually favouring a little-deserving bully with no race craft, akin to a pigeon’s excrement falling from the sky: with neither grace nor skill and a little splash at the end which no-one likes.

    4. Andy (@andyfromsandy)
      6th December 2021, 14:01

      Out on the open roads of the UK if you deliberately brake test someone and you get rear-ended it is not open and shut case the driver that hit you is in the wrong.

  25. Replay of Max sliding sideways into that corner and going off track is truly scary. That is why Max’s yellow tires went off at end of race. He toasted them dice bombing the corner.

  26. Can people on the comment section call themselves fans? Is it delusion. I think most f1 fans must be a bunch of fenboizs. How can you be so by as? Most of what you say is not real a complete fabrication.

  27. White line where to replace walls ,for driver safety. Should we replace the white lines again with walls.

  28. As the political clearly also favour just one of them

  29. LH is no different, he’s just playing it smarter than MV outside the track. 10 for acting with his semi innocent face.
    Why is it allowed to leave so much space at the restart an VB holding MV up. There is a rule about that, but, to use his own words, that doesn’t apply to one of them…..

  30. Ham has no right to talk after getting away with Silverstone with only a smack on the wrist.

    That ill judged move by ham trumps anything and all the questionable things Max has done this season. Ham should have been given a race ban if we want to be fair with penalties…

  31. Yet people rather look away from that one… how surprisingly. It didn’t set the tone at all ;-). Like a 4 year old smacking another kid and then starting a full blown rant why he got some in return.

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