Sainz “safety net” if Ricciardo leaves – Horner

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In the round-up: Carlos Sainz Jnr could get a chance at Red Bull if Daniel Ricciardo doesn’t commit beyond 2018, says Christian Horner.

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Kimi Raikkonen says retirements have spoiled his season, Moi has a different explanation:

He finished 54 seconds behind Verstappen yesterday. In a Ferrari. Vettel, driving the same car, was just 16 seconds behind Raikkonen at the finish while having to make an extra pit stop to put on a new nose, and driving through traffic all race long.

Raikkonen, I’m sorry to say, is way past his sell-by date.

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98 comments on “Sainz “safety net” if Ricciardo leaves – Horner”

  1. Nigel Mansell will be applying skin cream after reading Murray’s best British drivers list…

    1. Jim Clark in 4th place seems a little harsh too!

      1. Pfff, then the list is a sham.

    2. I absolutely adore Murray Walker, but he’s admitted on several occasions that his “list” of greatest drivers changes depending on the mood he’s in and his thoughts at the time. The poor man has probably been asked that question in varying forms around 20 times a year – and he’s over 90!

      This list of greatest British drivers by him is to be taken with a pinch of salt as I’ve seen other interviews with him where he places Clark at the top of his overall list, with Prost and Schumacher.

      My point is, Murray isn’t “trolling” or changing his mind or leaving people out, he’s probably just weary of the question and forgot Mansell this time he was asked!

  2. I could not agree more with the comment of the day. Kimi Raikkonen is not the driver he once was, and after returning in 2012, has been nothing more than a disappointment. Now I know the Raikkonen fanclub will bash me, call me names, and possibly drink my blood for Halloween, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
    Some may say, well why would a Ferrari resign him if he is no good? To me that is easy, he tows the line. He is without doubt one of the most unpolitical drivers on the grid, and also one of the most popular with the fans. To them he is cool, suave. He can be as rude as you like, as detached as possible, yet to them he can do no wrong.
    Vettel, a man well tuned to the sports political side, must love that. He has Ferrari’s undivided attention, safe in the knowledge that Raikkonen is nothing more than a stooge. When the team click their fingers, Kimi does what he is told.
    And who can blame him at his age, on good wages, a millionaire many times over. A decade ago he was one of the highest paid sports stars on earth, up there with a Tiger Woods.
    Martin Brundle once famously asked a Kimi if he had scene Pele’s presentation before a race, to be coldly answered that Raikkonen was too busy emptying his bowls to care. In 2006, after his McLaren took a dump instead of its driver, Raikkonen stormed off to join a well attended yacht party in full drivers overalls. Such were his concerns for his car’s demise, the team, or anything of note. When Senna crashed out at the same corner years earlier, he retired to his condo for a good sob and some reflection, not to a good knees up with his mates.
    Schumacher would never of done that, nor Alonso or Vettel. That is the difference between Raikkonen and such drivers. That is what makes him the jack the lad, fan favorite.
    For Ferrari that may sell merchandise, but it won’t help them win constructors championships, but who cares? It can all be resolved over an ice cream 🍨I am sure, Gelato no doubt.

    1. Everything here is 100% right! Ferrari should have been brave and put Bianchi in the car for 2014…he had more experience than when Mclaren put Lewis in the car for 2007.
      Hopefully they don’t make the same mistakes with Leclerc

      1. Ferrari had never had a young driver; tradition or cold reason, i don’t know but they never have. So it was not realistically to put Bianchi in a seat.

    2. Absolutely. He lost Ferrari the constructors and with the bone-head move in Singapore, in reality would have done the drivers as well even if there wasn’t a tech DNF for Vettel in Japan.

      Ferrari value experience and stability in their 2nd driver (sorry Perez, that’s you out), but a Leclerc would likely have known better than the Singapore move, and probably score better than Raikkonen as well, even as a rookie.

    3. Michael Brown (@)
      31st October 2017, 11:35

      Usually when Raikkonen continuing to drive for Ferrari, the pundits say that he works well with Vettel. It means Vettel usually beats him, so Vettel is happy.

      1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
        31st October 2017, 12:52

        @mbr-9 I don’t think any team can afford to have Vettel be upset. He was upset at Red Bull with Mark Webber ending 4th in the championship and ending up in front of him once in the season. If they bring in another driver like Ocon who wants to challenge Vettel’s position, it’ll be fireworks.

    4. I thought he had a great first season with Lotus but he’s not the driver he was ten years ago, whereas I think Vettel and Hamilton still have the drive for WDCs. It’s a true shame since it really should be a three-way battle at the top, but Raikkonen just isn’t consistently able to match Vettel or Hamilton’s results.\

      I’m hoping Ferrari pay to get Leclerc into a Sauber seat to fast-track him into a Ferrari for 2019.

    5. Sadly, yes; and he has always been one of my favorites. Even when he was in the McLaren troubling Michael.
      Sometime he’s slow, and EVERYBODY passes him!!! Come on, Kimi!

      P.S. all that being said, i’m still thinking about naming my kid Kimi – at least as a nickname.

  3. I thought Murray had Clark a bit higher on his list. I’ve read that the guy was just incredible and above all others. I cannot say but I thought he’d say the same given that he lived those years!

    1. @fer-no65 Pretty sure Murray gives a different answer everytime he’s asked who’s best.

      1. He usually emphatically puts Tazio Nuvolari at the top f his list of “Grand Prix drivers”. “F1 drivers” is a slightly different question…

  4. I still think that Sauber livery looks absolutely gorgeous. The car is a glorified pile of rubbish, but it certainly looks sexy from the right angle.

    1. Sundar Srinivas Harish
      31st October 2017, 2:19

      Beautiful? Yes. Pile of rubbish? Certainly. Glorified? Not in the slightest.

      1. It’s a figure of speech.

    2. IKEA car. I drive this car in f1 2017 if I can’t drive the mercedes in online races.

  5. Stewart, Clark, Hunt, Mansell, Button, Hamilton… That’s right, they’re all Champions who moved abroad to avoid paying tax. So why are we singling out just one?

    1. @splittimes, It’s also not just British drivers who have taken to moving abroad, because the majority of the most successful drivers from any nationality for decades have been tax exiles.

      Every single driver who won the title since 1985 has been a tax exile for at least some of their career, and right through back into the 1960’s the bulk of the drivers who won the title were tax exiles (if you go back over the last 50 years, it looks like maybe four of those winning drivers weren’t tax exiles).

      I do agree that Hamilton does seem to be being singled out in that respect, as I’ve not seen a comparable level of criticism within the UK press being levelled at Button for his tax arrangements, or any other recent champions like Vettel and Rosberg getting similar criticism in their national press either.

    2. Standard red top journalism that makes you sigh and reflect that there’s little we can do about it. Unfortunately many, many people in the UK read that trash, because they are trash themselves (note: I am from the UK!).

    3. @splittimes, @john-h – I love the implication that the rationale for relocating is purely based on taxation. No consideration of the possibility of better weather, better facilities, better food or better culture elsewhere.
      Also the lack of inquiry – why do top earners leave the country? Is the taxation system at fault? How could we make the country more welcoming to high-performing sports people?
      My own theory is that people with significant funds simply choose to go where the red-top readers cannot.

    4. yeah, pretty much exactly what I thought when reading that line @splittimes.

  6. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
    31st October 2017, 7:41

    The tax comments annoy me. It’s a free world, you’re not tied to a county or morally indebted to give them half of your salary for the rest of your life just because you were born there. I know where I’d rather live if I had the money.

    1. Me too. I mean, it’s an intelligent move. If I could move to another country just to avoid paying taxes, then I would do it.

    2. As a Brit ex-pat myself (living first in Saudi, then in Switzerland) the comments displayed by a rag like The Mirror are what I’ve come to expect. It doesn’t change the fact there are very few places where you can totally avoid taxation (aka Monaco and only for income taxes), but you still have to pay somewhere. It’s just some places offer better rates and even quality of life than others.

      If I could, I’d stay in Switzerland. I earn well above the UK rate of pay for my chosen profession (IT), pay around 35% less tax than I would in the UK … but still pay my other country specific dues like the mandatory Swiss health insurance. Maximising your earnings is something every high net worth individual (I am not one of these btw!) does and is not illegal.

      Tax avoidance isn’t illegal. Tax evasion is. The rest is pure snobbery and jealousy.

      1. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
        31st October 2017, 9:31

        Exactly it’s about quality of life like you say.

      2. Exactly. The Mirror is trash and it is trying to stir up an issue where there isn’t one. Many people, not just Lewis Hamilton or world famous sports people live in tax efficient jurisdictions. Hell, I did it while I lived in the Middle East. Sports people have relatively short careers so it makes sense for them to live in a tax efficient jurisdiction to maximise their earnings. Jackie Stewart and David Coulthard both talk about it at some length in their books. They are doing nothing wrong, people who read the Mirror are just annoyed they aren’t the ones doing it!

      3. William B Davis
        31st October 2017, 9:52

        It depends on how you look at it – the less high earners pay tax in the UK (as UK citizens) the more the average Joe will have to pay to fund the NHS etc (unless you feel that shouldn’t exist either – which judging by the countries you’ve lived in is probably the case).

        1. I grew up outside the UK in a country where my options where (a) pay through the nose for private healthcare or (b) shuffle off this mortal coil in the event I got ill and wasn’t covered.

          The NHS is a good thing, but people in the UK have to realise it isn’t the norm.

        2. But Lewis Hamilton and other tax exiles don’t live or work in the UK. Our NHS isn’t their responsibility.

          Socialism isn’t about making those who have give it to those who don’t but want it. It’s about people paying their fair share. And Hamilton’s fair share is zero.

      4. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
        31st October 2017, 11:23

        @franton how can you possibly pay 35% less tax living in Switzerland? don’t you have to pay taxes there? I thought Switzerland is crazy expensive.

        1. @William B Davis : NHS is pretty much funded by booze and cigarettes. The poor pay disproportionately for that anyway.
          @freelittlebirds : Simple. In the UK on the same wage, I’d be paying the income tax band of 40%. Here in Switzerland I’m paying about 15%. But I’m still paying.

          1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
            31st October 2017, 11:51

            @franton Switzerland has a 15% income tax??? Is that for everyone?

            40% in the UK? That steep – almost the same as in the States once you combine all the taxes. Is that rate incremental or the rate on the full income?

            Sorry I’m asking – I’m just curious. I live in the States and I pay local 1.25%, state 3%, and federal (25-30%along with property taxes (depends on home value but 3%). It comes to about 40% overall. The local and state are pretty low – big cities like NYC have much higher tax rates.

          2. @freelittlebirds It’s incremental. You only pay 40% on earnings over £50,000.

          3. @freelittlebirds No, the Swiss taxation system is a multi-tiered model. There are federal, cantonal and then municipal taxes. There’s also an extra 2% church tax if you declare a religion. By the time it’s factored up, and that includes where you live, I’m paying 14.38% tax on my earnings. Remember there’s a lot of indirect taxes here, so things like rubbish collection is paid via buying special rubbish sacks which are extremely expensive.

            The UK system is a monolithic model. Rather than explain, here’s the UK government link. . But yes, moving just about anywhere outside the UK gets me a better wage and better taxation rate. Stay out of the UK long enough, and you’re not legally liable although you could voluntarily contribute to “National Insurance” so you can still get a state pension.

          4. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
            31st October 2017, 11:58

            @franton duh, I forgot Social Security which 7.65% on the first $127,000. Actually both the employee and employer have to pay that so if you are self-employed then you pay 15.3%. It’s massive :-(

          5. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
            31st October 2017, 12:01

            @franton ha-ha thanks for the explanation – I guess it pays to be an atheist in Switzerland:-)

          6. @freelittlebird It does :) And I am. However I sadly cannot stay here because Swiss residency is HARD and when my job finishes, I’ll have maybe three months before I have to de-register and leave.

          7. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
            31st October 2017, 12:05

            I know this sounds like we derailed the topic but it’s actually relevant – I and I’m sure others in the States have always wondered why many F1 drivers live in Switzerland and would choose Switzerland over tax-haven Monaco. I expected the tax rate in Switzerland to be higher than most European countries. Now I understand :-)

            Do we know which F1 drivers live in Switzerland?

          8. Vettel’s Linkedin Profile shows he lives in Basel Area, Switzerland

      5. If your name is Donald Trump you can brag about not paying tax at all.

    3. Agreed with you guys, if he was part of a sport supported by tax payer’s money, or his income depended largely on British fans (like footballers for example) then I might have some sympathy for their argument, but his success is entirely down to his father, McLaren, and his own hard work.

      1. @rdotquestionmark @franton

        Shame on you guys (and others above) for not paying your fair share of tax!!! Poor form :)
        I am a Tax Accountant in Australia and make a reasonable living showing others how to minimise their tax liability – so any that know Kerry Packer he once told a parliamentary inquiry ‘You guys don’t spent it so well anyway so why pay more that I have to?” – fair point.

        Monaco residents don’t pay an Income Tax but they do pay a VAT tax (Or in other countries Goods & Services Tax). I think its 18% so basically a consumers tax- pay nothing on what you earn, but pay on what you buy- a smart tax in rich countries.

        In Australia if you earn over $180,000 you pay 46.5% tax (over $87,000- not the full amount). We have a society that encourages being average, not excelling. Then we pay for others that don’t want to work- our social welfare payments are highest in the world I think- I work hard so I can pay for a guy to go surfing and smoke dope?

        I don’t mind Lewis paying his 18% tax in Monaco…………….

        1. Assuming he even spends it there. Ever been to Monaco? Not that big. Can walk around in a couple hours (although I did spot a place I thought was an estate agent and turns out to sell luxury private aircraft instead!) and 18% VAT is still less than the UK’s 20% VAT. The Swiss 8% VAT is offset by the fact everything here is so much more expensive generally anyway. (Decent hot chocolate in the winter months? That’ll be $8 please.)

          For the record: I pay everything I owe (and slightly more because of certain Swiss rules) to the country I reside in. I am legally non resident for the UK, but I don’t get to call on their services either. I am following the rules, and so is probably Lewis and others.

        2. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
          1st November 2017, 12:33

          Ha interesting comment. Unfortunately I’m one of the plebs that pays more than my fair share of UK tax. Same situation though, any more than I earn currently is @40% tax. So there’s very little incentive to push on.

  7. Can’t believe I actually read this. If anything, Schumacher’s racecraft was his biggest strength. He wasn’t the best in qualy, he was at his best during the races.

    1. “Michael (Schumacher) achieved fantastic records but his racecraft was not one of his greatest strengths”

      Pointing at this quote.

    2. Exactly. This statement bugged me too. Let’s not forget that Schumacher implemented the “hammer time” way before HAM. Only drivers with great racecraft can do that succesfully.

    3. Schumacher’s qauly was also good. It’s just people tend to forget one important thing.
      There was a time you had to qaulify with your starting race fuel. He was mostly over fuelled compared to his rivals which allowed him to do those overcuts he mastered to perfection.
      Who knows how many more poles he could’ve gotten if he took a bit of fuel out of it.
      Sacrifice Saturday to win on Sunday.

    4. Fully agree with you. Lewis is a quali monster, but Schumacher was a race monster, who would do anything to overtake, to win.

      1. Doing anything to win is not exquisite race craft though. Lewis does everything he can within the boundaries of sportsmanship – Schumacher just did everything he could full stop.

    5. Agreed, obvious a very biased reporter trying to build a bigger Lewis at the cost of another great.

    6. Schumacher was never good at overtaking though. He was more praised for being consistent and never giving op. Also for his ruthless defending. He pulled the “Verstappen move” long before Verstappen was even born.

      Although it was mostly the bigger Ferrari budget which allowed them unlimited testing year round and the aid of Ecclestone and Mosly from the regulatory side of things.

    7. I’d say Hamilton’s racecraft is better than Schumi’s, especially in recent years. Schumacher was a master of using pitstops to his advantage and had incredible pace, but he never excelled in wheel-to-wheel as far as I’m concerned. He’s quite similar to Vettel in that regard. I’d say Alonso has the best racecraft of his generation though, he perhaps lacks a little in absolute speed, but his strategic awareness and wheel-to-wheel ability are as good as anyone’s.

      1. Schumacher’s racecraft was better than Hamilton’s.

      2. Yes (@come-on-kubica)
        1st November 2017, 1:18


        But Hamilton hasn’t had to race anyone for the past 4 years apart from one team mate that’s it. Most of the overtakes if he’s had to work through the pack have been simple DRS passes with his OP engine.

      3. I agree with Alonso being the best race day driver among the current crop; my opinion is based on how well he did with the Ferrari car and base on his first laps since. Hard to see anything afterwards.
        But Michael was amazing too. A few of his championships were easy to win due to the car but at least 4 of them (plus the 99 season) he had to fight for. You can not do that unless you have good racecraft.
        Michael was able to save the car so he can put in those fast laps when it counted to get an under/overcut done.
        He was a master in Qually.

  8. I think if i had the money i would move to Monaco or any other warm sunny dynamic tax haven rather than live here in the UK and give half my salary to the government so that they can squander it on doing up their duchesses or giving themselves above inflation pay rises whilst leaving public servants below inflation .

    1. if you had the money you could move anywhere; once you have it you don’t pay taxes on it anymore.

  9. Attacks on Hamilton over his tax status make it sound like he’s somehow using a loophole to cheat Britain out of tax.

    He’s not the one funding a political party and lobbying them to keep corporation tax low like the tabloid rag owners do. He just doesn’t live here or earn his money here and thus isn’t liable for tax here. How is that a hard concept for people to grasp?

    1. Exactly and that’s the UK rules. Pity the poor buggers like Americans and Australians who are liable for taxes regardless based on world wide income. At least the UK does it by residency, even if the rules are … complicated :)

      1. It’s not exactly true for Americans, and the tables regarding the actual percentage varies depending on multiple factors. And there is a maximum value, everything above that number is not taxed. I believe at the last update it was around $100k but yes many Americans abroad don’t hit that. And it depends on where you’re paid from, if the company pays you in the US even though you haven’t been back you pay like you live there. Although there are fixes for that later.

      2. Pity the poor buggers like Americans and Australians who are liable for taxes regardless based on world wide income.

        True but for us (Aussies) the offsets and other avenues available make it more than bearable. We also get a pretty good return for our tax despite our governments best efforts over the last 30 years. We and NZ get a lot of wealthy foreigners coming here to live, they seem to like the life style we offer.
        A rag like the Mirror attacking Hamilton for minimizing his tax is definitely the pot calling the kettle black.

        1. @johnrkh

          I spent a year working and traveling in Australia and I’d take busy about every aspect of the culture over the British equivalent.

          Except your broadband. Eesh!

  10. Whilst I completely agree with the sentiment of the COTD, I wouldn’t say Mexico is an appropriate example, given that he most likely wouldn’t have been pushing given the fact it was likely he’d have to let Seb by at some point (which thankfully he didn’t have to).

    1. given that he most likely wouldn’t have been pushing given the fact it was likely he’d have to let Seb by at some point

      That was a terribly constructed sentence haha but you get my point!

    2. @ninjenius

      I agree. Especially the line about extra stop is simply nonsense. It just means that Vettel could drive faster. There usually isn’t that much between one and two stops. If Vettel had gone for one stop like Hamilton seemed to be attempting at first he wouldn’t have been able to pass anyone. You can;t save your tyres to last the distance and overtake.

      Also Vettel’s overtaking didn’t amount to much either. Most drivers just let him pas. Only Massa put up some sort of defense.

      On the other hand Raikkonen has been disappointing, but people seem to grossly exaggerate by which extent. It’s clear that Raikkonen does not get preference in car development or strategy. His strategy always seems to be an afterthought which goes horribly wrong more often than not. O they simply leave him hanging to defend Vettel, like iN Hungary.

      Raikkonen also had a lot more DNF’s and issues outside of his control. For instance in Spain, Azerbaijan and Malaysia. He also had a brake issue in Canada. Last but not least he was rammed out of the Singapore race by Vettel.

      Which brings me to the fact that, if anything, I’d think Ferrari would be more disappointed that they went with Vettel rather than say Ricciardo. Perhaps the talks were already to far progressed along, but in 2014 it was quite clear that Ricciardo was the better driver.

    3. @ninjenius I completely disagree, going slowly would never have been a better tactical move for Ferrari than going quickly as going quicker would have given Ferrari more tactical options. If he could have put pressure on Max, or even got past him, he would be in a much better position to help his teammate (in both cases slowing Max). It’s always easy to give up a position if needed but the opposite isn’t true to being faster will always tend to give you greater ability to use team tactics to your team’s benefit.

    4. I actually think in the US and Mexico he’s been (almost) on par with Seb. But too many times he’s been slower and everybody passes him. It drives me crazy!!!

  11. Am I becoming an old fart? Regarding the tweet with Lewis and Seb: I find it quite disrespectful to keep your headphones on when attending the drivers briefing. Strange that Lewis can get away with that.

    1. I suspect because the footage is released now it’s product placement.

    2. Except he doesn’t have them on at all?

    3. @matthijs
      As a Lewis fan, I’ve always HATED the way he carries himself sometimes with his phone during press conferences & now headphones. It’s extremely disrespectful but his sunglasses during interviews it’s are most likely because he’s sponsored & the headphones are probably as well, I think it’s Bose who sponsors Mercedes.

      Lewis & I are the same age but I hate how he’s played into the black American stereotype & I wished he could be just another proud brother who doesn’t need to help continue the stereotypes. Black Americans never used to dress with ridiculous chains & be different just to not try to prove their “blackness”. I only think other blacks will understand this.

      1. @s2g-unit I’m black, and I’m finding it very hard to understand this virulent rage at someone’s style choices, merely because they do not coincide with yours. I’d actually have expected from you a greater tolerance for, if not unalloyed acceptance of, diversity, given the storied history of black men savaged and pilloried merely owing to our being different.

        Do you really hate yourself that much?

        1. It is not rage towards the style; it is just too “loud” or “flashy” like vegans or religious groups trying to get your attention and pushing you too far. If it is something, it is a bit artificial, like trying to much and to me at least when i think about F1 drivers i think “man this is confidence, coolness”; Lewis does not transmit that to me.

  12. Why would some of the British media tarnish Lewis achievement? He is the new world champion, and came out as the winner of a very nice championship battle (would have been a beautiful one without Ferrari DNFs). I mean, I am not a die hard Hamilton fan, but huge respect to him for his achievements. Picking up some tax issues, which are not, is just trying to through mud in whatever way and that is not honorable at all.

    1. Because he’s a working class black kid and they know they’ll sell more of their toilet paper rag to the kind of inept minds that read the sun and the mirror with a hit piece than actually celebrating something which is positive.

      1. Just about sums it up.

    2. I think British fans and media are both fanatically invested and yet hard to pleased. They always exaggerated about simple achievement and yet always make noise about something unimportant.
      Like London street event, you may could categorized me as Lewis hater but I still didn’t understand why three’s so many bad news and unpleasant hearsay about that.

  13. Sainz’s Red Bull contract ends next year with an option for 2019.

    Question now is does Sainz want to take that option and leave Renault for a Honda bound Red Bull?
    If Renault makes a step large enough to finish in the points consistently like Force India have done I can see him signing with the manufacturer team and not the firm that invested in him.

  14. Eh? Schumacher Mark 1 had racecraft to burn!! For me his greatest drive was when he was trying to reel Alonso in for the championship in 2005 or 6 having started at the back. His aggression was higher than Lewis’ and that sometimes cost him (see Villeneuve) but it gave him an edge in those type of situations that placid drivers cannot match. JUST WRONG!!!

  15. Why do the British media whine so much about citizens moving away? So much bitcing about taxes is silly. Lewis can live where he wants. Here in the U.S., a lot of rich people own multiple homes in different countries.
    Its called free society Brits, so get a grip. All the complaining makes the country seem desperate and poor.

    1. Move to France: they will take 75% income tax on the rich.
      Would you stay?

      1. Firstly, this was dropped a while ago.

        Secondly, if you’re that wealthy, chances are, you can afford the best legal advisers. If you can afford the best legal advisers chances are they will find loopholes and they will still find a way to avoid paying tax.

        In that article the “super tax” actually raised meagre amounts compared to projections.

        The fundamental point I guess is that wealthy people will always find a way to pay as little as possible.

      2. Be assured that 50% of several tens of millions is still several tens of millions. Even at 75% I wouldn’t be close to tears as long as it serves healthcare, jobs and other interesting things.

  16. The media deserves a pat on the back.

    When Vettel was winning 4 in a row, he was the greatest thing since sliced bread, now its Hamilton.

    Come on! Nobody is doubting Lewis’ ability, or Vettel’s, or Alonso’s or Verstappen’s. Most of these guys are pretty closely matched. You can never really say who is the best, because there isn’t a mathematical way to prove it, its always an opinion.

    Statiscally, Schumacher is the best. And will remain so until Lewis or Max or possibly Vettel breaks his record in. People don’t remember drivers or professional athletes who didn’t win anything, they remember champions. The average racing fan will probably not know about Gilles Villeneuve, or Carlos Reutemann, or Jacky Ickx who were top top drivers in their day, but never won a championship. History always remember’s wins, the more you have, the greater your legacy.

    Stats don’t quite paint the true picture though. Success in racing is determined by so many external factors of which the driver is just one. But that’s when opinion comes into play, which isn’t quantifiable.

    For now, Lewis is the greatest…if he goes into a few lean years (not likely considering Merc’s engine advantage), we’ll be talking about how great the serial winner of the day is . We might even recognise Vettel as worthy champion in years to come.

  17. I can only see Schumacher as a (slightly) overall better driver than Lewis.
    For sure not Stewart! Jesus Christ, a discussion would be plausible with Clark in it, but Stewart? Nope.

  18. I agree with COTD to an extent, Kimi can still be fast & I still think he’s capable of winning races & if everything fall’s his way a championship. However I think the Kimi of old that was consistently stunningly fast & capable of some amazing drives & overtakes is gone.

    There’s been a few races the past year or 2 where Kimi has been trying to overtake somebody, He’s pulled out as if looking to try & move only to back out of it fairly early & I can’t help but think that the Kimi of say 2005 would have not only had a go at some of those overtakes but also made them stick.

    I think that is the most obvious sign of where Kimi is lacking now compared to the past. He doesn’t have that killer instinct that see’s a gap & goes for it anymore & thats a shame as that is always something that made Kimi exciting to watch in his time at Sauber & McLaren.

    1. Spot on, unfortunately. I’d love a young guy in his place: Ocon or Riciardo. Sadly Ferrari won’t go for someone youg like Ocon, maybe Riciardo in 2019.
      Max is probably a better racer but, his fault or not, he gets into too many accidents. He will not win a WDC until he fixes that. To be WDC these days you need to finish all races. Reliability is awesome and there are some consistent guy out there (again, Ocon or Riciardo). Arrivabene should be prepared to sale on of it’s paired organs to get one of these guys next to Seb. Won’t be as easy as a Seb-Kimi pairing but it would work.

      1. Sorry about the typing; edit button, please, @keithcollantine.

  19. Since I don’t live in the UK I wondered how easy it was to legally pay far less than the UK Government wants. With the aid of the world’s most popular search engine and not much effort it seems the Channel Islands are “terrible” at taxing their local residents. They have a flat 20% tax rate on the first 1.5M pounds world wide income, and above that you pay 1%.
    So, assuming Her Majesty, your accountant, and yourself are struggling to live on your multi-million pound income, what swings and slides do you have to play on to get residency there? It seems you can claim residency by having an abode there, which has to be available for you to use at any time, but you don’t have to actually own it yourself, it could belong to your wife, company, or even your employer … oh … I meant “team”. Unfortunately the house the team owns won’t be any good to you unless you’ve to a minimum two year contract for this to apply … sorry Valtteri, but you miss out again. The other catch to claiming residency is you have to live at the house for at least the minimum required, but like all laws designed to encourage tax avoidance, it seems the threshold is very low. I guess (since I don’t know) that one day should is the least that will suffice. Maybe you could do this in transit between the Red Bull Ring in Austria and Silverstone. We don’t want some tabloid journalist to accuse us of being “cheap” or “stingy”, so we should buy a place rather than rent or lease. Looking at the local real estate website, and considering we’re talking about someone who has to spend at least one day each year there, there did seem to be some “just about adequate” F1 WDC level houses in the half million pound and above range one could pay for without scrapping the bottom of the barrel or getting an overdraft from your Swiss bank.
    So there you have it: you don’t need to be a tax exile in Switzerland, you can be one much closer to home.

  20. Kimi was pretty decent at Lotus.
    But after the switch to Ferrari he’s been so poor that maybe another guy on that Lotuses could be a double world champion, who knows?
    4 seasons already and maybe half a dozen really good races.

    And the guy has 7 seasons for Ferrari under his belt, going for the 8th.

  21. I was reading Lowe’s comments on Hamilton and I certainly thought to myself, “Ooh! HAM to Williams for 2019!”. It sounds crazy. Why move from the current best team in the sport? But then look at his shock move from McLaren to Merc. And after 4 titles, maybe the challenge of helping bring the very British Williams back to the top of the sport again would be a thrilling prospect for him? Crikey, I’d love to see that happen!

    1. Sorry for the double post. Too quick on the trigger. The one below has the typo fixed.

  22. I was reading Lowe’s comments on Hamilton and I suddenly thought to myself, “Ooh! HAM to Williams for 2019!”. It sounds crazy. Why move from the current best team in the sport? But then look at his shock move from McLaren to Merc. And after 4 titles, maybe the challenge of helping bring the very British Williams back to the top of the sport again would be a thrilling prospect for him? Crikey, I’d love to see that happen!

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