Pirelli 18-inch tyre test, 2014

Magnussen on F1’s new tyres: ‘It depends who makes them’

RaceFans Round-up

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In the round-up: Kevin Magnussen says the success of Formula 1’s new tyre rules from 2021 will depend on who is chosen to make them.

What they say

Magnussen was asked what he thought of plans to introduce 18-inch wheel rims and ban the use of tyre warmers from 2021:

I think it depends on who is making the tyres mainly.

Quotes: Dieter Rencken

RacingLines

Apologies to those of you who came to the site yesterday looking for your weekly dose of insight from Dieter. His RacingLines column this week is on the change of leadership at Ferrari which was announced last Saturday, and was due to be published around midday yesterday.

Shortly before then, however, came the sad news of Sergio Marchionne’s death. Out of respect for Marchionne and his family the decision was therefore taken to postpone running it until later today.

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Comment of the day

A Ferrari fan pays tribute to Sergio Marchionne:

I’m very saddened by the passing of the great Sergio. As a Ferrari fan, I can never thank him enough for all the efforts deployed all these years and especially the last four years that helped to bring back the Scuderia from dark years into the light.

Grazie di tutto Presidente… RIP
@Tifoso1989

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On this day in F1

  • 20 years ago today Mika Hakkinen led a McLaren one-two at the A1-Ring after Michael Schumacher damaged his Ferrari by going off

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  • 78 comments on “Magnussen on F1’s new tyres: ‘It depends who makes them’”

    1. Those tyres look ridiculous. I dont understand how people like them. In Formula E they look completely out of place, and it only looks slightly better on the new car because the new car is more like a prototype rather than a formula chassis with those wheel covers.

      1. So how about giving F1 a chance to show them on a 2021 car? I think we’ll be impressed.

        1. @robbie they already have, no? back in 2014.

          @s2g-unit I don’t agree, I don’t think an F1 tyre has any resemblance to anything used on the road. It’s only cosmetic, because of their size. Other than that, it’s ultra specific for F1. Besides, if F1 forces Michelin or whoever to build designed to degrade tyres, its even worse for road relevance.

          1. @fer-no65 The engines are ultra specific for F1 also. It’s the same difference

            @gt-racer has mentioned many times how Pirelli goes about getting their designed to degrade tires. I hope he can respond & give more insight on Pirelli’s poorly designed tires (because of their choice of design).

            I’m surprised fans on this site still defend Pirelli, saying they were asked to make tires that give more pitstops. Yes, they were asked for tires that degrade more quickly. However, nobody ever asked for tiny temperature window, sensitive to “delaminations”, easily punctured, tires that overheat when pushed and/or trying to overtake. They overheat so much, drivers either asked their engineers whether they should attack, or only attack/defend for a few corners to prevent the tires from getting too hot. Once they get too hot, they don’t cool properly & lack grip.

          2. @fer-no65 In 2014 they showed us a 2021 car with 18” tires on it?

            1. Damn those pesky timetravellers!

      2. F1 has always pushed road relevance, especially with these new engines. F1 should have dumped the small rims years ago. I with Michelin, that there is no point for them to continue making tires for small rims, when all the rims they sell are much larger. Especially, since everyday cars now comes with 17-19″ inch wheels.

        1. @s2g-unit, actually, I believe that smaller rimmed wheels – closer to 15-16 inches – are substantially more common than the 17-19 inch wheels are when you look at the global sales data, with those larger rim sizes making up a fairly limited proportion of sales.

          Basically, sales of larger rimmed wheels are concentrated in a few rich nations where people are prepared to pay a larger premium for the aesthetic impact of those larger rims (and it is mainly aesthetic considerations, with the larger profit margins that come with it, that has driven that change).

          It’s why, in MotoGP, Michelin pretty much came out straight away and admitted that their proposal with increasing the wheel rim size in that series had nothing to do with performance – it was purely an aesthetic change to make it look more like a road bike tyre so it would look better in their marketing brochures.

          1. 16-17s are more common on standard cars but sports cars tend to have 18-19s. F1 cars are sports cars, after all.

          2. You can’t compare MotoGP and F1. MotoGP wheels are 17″ diameter (just like your standard sport bike), and quite close in overall dimmensions to what’s fitted to most if not all sport bikes (120/70R17 fronts and 205/55R17 rears for a modern 1000 bike).

            F1 wheels are 13″ (when was the last time you saw a new model with 13″ wheels?), but front wheels are 305 mm wide and rears are 425. Total diameter is 670 mm, 330 of which is from the rim, meaning tyres with an immensely tall sidewall. It also means that you have to make brakes small enough to fit into those 13″ wheels, yet powerful enough to stop an F1 car without running into overheating issues.

            I have no doubt Michelin gets much more road relevance from their MotoGP slicks than Pirelli can even dream of getting from their F1 slicks.

        2. F1 has always pushed road relevance

          Is this as in F1 tech scaled down to road cars or that F1 tries to be road relevant? Because F1 used to be the epicentre for new tech that eventually scaled down to road cars, it never tried to be road relevant, it simply was.

      3. the 13s also look ridiculous, it is a lose lose situation changing the rim size. Truth is no tyre manufacturer wants to make them, probably not even Pirreli, and FIA/FOM might feel that increasing the size of the rims might give them more proposals from tyre manufactures, so, why not? Unless of course Pirreli was doing a good job, but I don’t think it is.

        We might be on the brink of having state of the art tyre in the so called pinnacle of motorsport, I’m up for it.

      4. Agreed. I like fat, juicy, squealing tyres. Just like how I like my pigs.

    2. James Coulee
      26th July 2018, 0:35

      Curiously I feel the exact opposite: how such an advanced formula could have a tire doing the job of a suspension spring but completely undamped? Such a primitive solution seemed unfitting to F1 in my eyes.

    3. Todd (@braketurnaccelerate)
      26th July 2018, 0:46

      Honestly, with how small an F1 car is, a 16″ or 17″ rim would look way more “street/OEM” appearing than 18’s on an F1 car.

      1. How small? You mean the size of a large sedan, that tends to have 19-20″ rims?

      2. @braketurnaccelerate how small an F1 car is? Dude, the current Mercedes has a wheelbase lengthier than an S class.

    4. Have to agree with JV about LH.

      1. Yeah..I cringed when he said “Love conquers all”…..he’s starting to sound like Bono!

        1. Likewise. It seems like him and Bono are reading off a script with all these cliches they come out with. Looking for a part in a movie after his F1 days.

        2. He’s so massively #blessed – everyone’s #blessed.

      2. I found JVs comments offensive and disrespectful to Hamilton, not to mention hypocritical considering how JV himself behaved. Sure, LH made a religious reference when he won, but in other circumstances such things are put down to emotion and adrenaline. Nor is such a comment remotely in the realm of unacceptable.

        1. Hammy-fans always back up his behavior with a “it’s down to emotion’ or ‘it’s adrenaline’. Never calling a spade a spade like JV’s article.
          Did he REALLY have to kneel beside his carriage endlessly and put on a show? At least Alonso found a chair on a grassy knoll and gave us some comic relief.
          Toto has to be dying inside

          1. One of the best MotoGP riders in the history of the sport kneels beside his bike and utters a prayer before each race, namely one Valentino Rossi aka The Doctor, nobody slags him off so give Ham a break.

            I really don’t know why anybody listens to anything JV has to say, I read an article on F1i.com where he is referred to as F1’s Professional Critic … what a joke.

          2. I don’t really need those religious references myself either, despite being quite a fan of Hamilton @sjzelli, but two things: If he feels like that, why is it a problem (I find Vettel’s Italian adresses often grating too, but, I think he means them well) ;two: Villeneuve should know about making every thing about him/a show, and he is not even a 4 time champion.

            Alonso, well, he’s always eager to throw others under the bus, ‘it was my best drive, if only others had not nade it so it counted for little’ he is a great driver, but not without annoying flaws.

            1. @bosyber Exactly. I really don’t care for Hamilton’s religious chatter, but Vettel’s Italian gibberish is just as bad (if not worse)

              Is there any driver who has something sensible to say after taking a win? Ricciardo perhaps?

              Although I have to agree that Hamiltonwas really unbearable in the Hockenheim post race press conference. He kept on yapping on about his superstitions. Still, who cares. They never say much relevant anyway.

        2. BlackJackFan
          26th July 2018, 10:17

          Totally agree with Mog… and would add that I am sooo tired of JV forcing his inane remarks upon an even more juvenile media…

        3. @mog Perhaps enlighten us as to how JV behaved that has anything to do with how LH does.

      3. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
        26th July 2018, 8:07

        I’m a Lewis fan but JV’s comments genuinely made me laugh out loud.

      4. @robbie I was starting to like Hamilton even being a Ferrari fan. And then he raised the bar with all this prayers and faith. It would be fine if it didn’t look so staged.

        1. Hasn’t Lewis always been a religious guy though? I even remember him in church after Monaco 15 race where Mercedes mucked up with the extra pitstop.

          I’m not even a fan of his but I know he’s always on that spiritual vibe. It’s not for me either but you to each his own.

      5. agreeing with JV is a treacherous path

      6. JV would rather live in a world where everyone (at least every F1 driver) had the same personalities and beliefs. I agree to disagree.

        1. @jcost Of course not, that’s ridiculous. He, like many of us, just have no use for drama queens.

          1. @robbie Well it’s not as though Jacques didn’t try for a bit of pop drama himself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ACUWVxrntI
            Apparently his album sold 263 copies.

      7. Yep, me too. All his religious nonsense is between him and his whatever. No-one needs to hear that crap.

    5. I don’t remember when was the last time I have agreed with JV, but I’d have to agree now.
      Haven’t really bothered myself with looking at Lewis’ instagram, but from what I’ve seen on the track and heard on the radio, he is a definition of a poser. Not once I saw him really try to be a bigger man when things went sideways. Each time he sounded more like a child, then like some enlightened head, he is portraying himself to be with his empty phrases and #blessed nonsense.

      1. Mmh, the definition of a poser… To me a poser accomplishes nothing, just takes the pose. We’re talking about a 4-time F1 world champion. If you know how competitive this sport/business is, you also know it takes more than posing.
        Personally, I’m a fan of LH the racer. The Jesus/Love conquers all side, I just ignore it…

        1. @ldom He’s a four time champion because of his amazing talent, not his personality off the track. Just because someone is accomplished in F1 doesn’t mean that everyone has to love and accept his personality and makes everything he says or does OK.

      2. Not once I saw him really try to be a bigger man

        How about when he didn’t brag about beating his competition at their home race like Vettel did in Britain?

        1. How about every time something hasn’t worked out for him. Even plunging to such dire depths as blaming your own mechanics.

          1. Even plunging to such dire depths as blaming your own mechanics.

            Never happened

            1. Of course not :’D

      3. Question is, does it matter? If he keeps winning that is the only important thing to Mercedes, the rest is up to each one of us to pay attention or not. I personally don’t, but if it is true that he behaves like a Hollywood celeb (which I already can’t understand what kind of behaviour that is), I’m sure there is plenty of people who follow him for it, aren’t the Hollywood celebrities, celebrities because of it?

    6. Tired of Tyre size discussions .??
      Should any of us really be concerned about what the wheels and tyres look like.? This is F1 after all and historically this has meant cutting edge technology used to build and run the fastest cars that the rules will allow.
      Once upon a time the rule book was really small. I like that idea.
      The teams used to select tyre sizes based on what the suppliers (note the reference to more than one) could or would provide and sometimes these changed. Eg the 6 wheeled cars and the similar vintage rather large rear tyres.
      Logic would indicate that larger diameter is better for the suppliers, be they Michelin or Pirelli or whomever.
      What would be really interesting would be to see a summary, from an expert in the field, outlining the expected performance characteristics. Tyre sensitivity to set-up, fuel load variation, growth at speed and aero impact, how will they affect brake design, what about heat control without blanket heaters ….. lots of things will be impacted and this is just a start.
      My guess is that it will be a really big deal and turn the grid on it’s head. Bring it on.

    7. Regular Hamliton bashers saying they agree with JV, hahaha ofcourse you do. Most of them cant resist the urge to say something negative once his name pops up on the feed. Grown men in thier feelings about how another man goes about his life. You dont like something/someone ignore it. I go thru the comment section for that rare insight or knowledge of F1 but have to dig thru boarderline hateful comment everytime.

      Same drivel everytime, are you people not tired.

      1. Peppermint-Lemon (@)
        26th July 2018, 8:26

        As some on this site will agree… These days i am not a fan of Hamilton’s in the slightest.

        However I am not against his beliefs etc at all.

        I would just rather he leave the staged comments, acting and self righteous attitude at home once in a while. It makes the sport cringeworthy to watch.

        Take Riccardo as an example. A quality driver. Funny. Intelligent. Respectful towards others. Doesn’t constantly moan, only when he had good reason. And mostly appears happy.

        Lewis could learn a lot from him. People would probably like him more for it.

        1. @peppermint-lemon It’s easy not to moan when you have nothing on the line.

          When Ricciardo had some tough spoits he wasn’t so friendly or calm anymore. For instance the way he cursed at Verstappen when he got rammed in Hungary.

          Besides, what’s more of an act, a driver who won a very tough race win and is extremely happy about it? Or the driver who got screwed into a crash by his weaving team mate (Baku) and was clearly furious about it, but had to play happy anyway?

      2. @lums and what’s the problem with agreeing with JV? LH is an amazing driver who has a big moviestar complex. That’s fine, that’s just the way it is. Vettel haters also say he’s a whiny b*tch. In the same way, how many Ricciardo haters do you know? Being an F1 driver means being famous and having everything you say scrutinized. You get paid handsomely for that too.

      3. Regular Hamliton bashers saying they agree with JV, hahaha ofcourse you do

        Exactly. Awful lot of people seem to be forgetting that team radio not a press conference .

    8. As far as tyres are concerned. Do a test. If the 18’s are faster use them , if not , don’t.

      1. Peppermint-Lemon (@)
        26th July 2018, 8:18

        I would think that the rim size matters little compared to the tyre wrapped around them.

        Pirelli could make a tyre for a 13″ rim far faster than the current spec tyre. Likewise 18″ rim tyre.

        Personally, rather than go all out from a mini sized rim to an SUV sized rim… For road relevance and for ease of transition how about 16″ which would be far more sensible and a balance between old and “new”.

      2. They have. There’s significant engineering issues like having to redesign all the gearboxes and their gear ratios because the wheel size is bigger. It’s not really a question of quicker, it’s more will the damn things last or be another few years of bubblegum on a bigger tyre rim?

        1. The suspension design will also need a complete top-to-bottom re-think because at the moment it’s largely rigid with the tyre sidewalls actually mitigating the shocks…

          1. Yes, that too. I wasn’t aiming for a complete list: I let the F1technical people do that ;)

          2. BlackJackFan
            26th July 2018, 10:24

            If this means seeing some new suspension technology, instead of the current “Aero For Ever” situation, I’m all for it.

      3. Michelin did a test with a Renault World Series car a few years ago & were saying that lap times around Valencia were about a second faster with the 18″ tyres.
        https://www.autosport.com/fv8%203.5/news/116559/renault-evaluating-18inch-tyres

        I believe the plan was to have that series next car built for running 18″ tyres but when Renault withdrew it’s backing from the series the new owners scrapped plans to introduce a new car & stuck with the existing one in order to keep cost’s down.

    9. Must be new journalism. The link to this article, the title of this article, the preface of the round up, and the introduction to the quote are each longer than the quote itself!

      That’s what I call ‘milking it’.

      1. Got to love K-Mag, doesn’t give a lot of material to work with does he?

        A couple of sentences and a pair of balls and that is it

      2. @coldfly I don’t see how that follows. All it shows is that Magnussen gave a succinct reply. Nothing wrong with that.

        No doubt if the opposite was the case there’d be complaints about insufficient context begin given.

        1. Colour me unimpressed with the journalistic choices in this instance, @keithcollantine.
          After reading the link, title, and intro, I was expecting a bit more content and/or analysis.

    10. Towing the party line is one thing, sending out identical tweets is another.

      1. Interestingly, Ferrari and Fiat are two totally independent companies, @geemac.
        They did share a CEO, but that’s no longer (RIP Sergio) and now only have Elkann acting a chairman on both boards.

        I haven’t read the RacingLines article yet – will do it now – but assume that the change in CEO and having no equity ties might impact the link between Ferrari and Alfa Romeo (and AR’s future in F1).

    11. JV’s comments with regards to Lewis and his faith are actually quite disgusting.

      I don’t share the same faith as Lewis but, in a day where we are supposed to know better and these kind of prejudices should not exist, he is free to practice his religion freely and should not be judged on it.

      Lewis is clearly a devout Christian who acknowledges he is in the public eye and wants to be a role model to other Christians. If that means kneels against his car and praying when things go wrong, he is fully entitled to do that without judgement.

      Lewis chooses to live his life as a Christian and he is fully entitled to do so. If he feels he is blessed to be in the position he is in, he is entitled to believe that. Thousands of people climb the motorsports ladder and never make it to F1, never mind being a triple champion. Thousands more never even make the first steps because they can’t fund it. My religious beliefs would call that luck but, if he wants to define that as a blessing, that’s fine too! It’s actually a good thing that he keeps his feet on the ground and realises it is a privileged position he finds himself in.

      I’m actually quite surprised that an article from the Sun is included, especially with a quote from a has-been whose own engineers laughed at how bad his driving was at times. I can’t actually remember anything intelligent coming from this guy in a long time!

    12. Thomas Bennett (@felipemassadobrasil)
      26th July 2018, 10:08

      Villenueve’s situation is actually quite sad. He is just desperate for attention and I really don’t think there’s any hope left for him. It’s not as bad as when he claimed Kubica was sabotaging Williams though. That will always stick in my mind.

      1. @felipemassadobrasil eheh I don’t remember that one, do you have a link? JV is a funny bloke isn’t he?

      2. let’s face it , villeneuve only got into F1 because of his name , he was never a real deal like his father
        only a rag like the sun would print what he says

        1. only a rag like the sun would print what he says

          And luckily there’s no serious journalist who’d link back to those articles :P

    13. I have to say the “Beyond the grid” podcast has really surpassed my expectations. I thought they’d be another failed attempt to get the drivers to open up but they have actually been great and have been genuinely interesting to listen to. The Kubica and Ocon interviews in particular were very interesting. They’ve started well, long may they continue.

      1. I am very happy with all the stuff Liberty is doing with the website: new news, technical articles, great videos, interesting reviews, etc. @geemac.
        If only I could get a decent version of F1TV.

        1. @coldfly Indeed. Once they get the archive service sorted, I’ll be signing up.

    14. I am absolutely shocked at so many people’s negative and toxic reactions to Hamilton. Have you guys even considered, just for once, that maybe the emotions he shows on TV could be real?

      Of course you haven’t. I have no clue how you can claim to know (with so much certainty) what’s actually going on inside his head, while sitting comfortably in your armchair, far far away from the person you are so quick to criticize. Just because you dislike him, he has to be a “poser” and a “drama queen”. All that just from your armchair, fantastic.

      And then people wonder why the drivers act like PR drones in their interactions with the media. I admit Hamilton can be a polarising character at times, and might say stuff before thinking about it, but at least he has not shied away from being consistent in his behaviour in spite of being properly aware of the hate he gets as a result. Over time, his defensive comments in response to criticism have made it clear that he is the kind of person that gets affected by these things, and consequently, it is impressive that he hasn’t yet tried to hide under a facade. I remember Rosberg, after his retirement, mentioning how he preferred giving mechanical answers to interview questions in order to “protect” himself.

      By the way, those genuinely interested in the context behind Hamilton’s victory message, you can try watching the post-race paddock pass. There, he mentions the negativity surrounding him that weekend in the form of German fans that jeered at him, and how seeing his own fans amidst the plethora of German fans affected him. It gives at least some context to where both of his post-race messages might have originated from i.e. “Love conquers all” and “Those who didn’t know me, now you do”.

      Here’s the link to the paddock pass:
      https://youtu.be/SvDiVtVzO6w

      Autosport wrote an article based on his comments in the paddock pass (for those who don’t want to watch the video):
      https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/137605/hamilton-hockenheim-boos-inspired-victory-drive

      I’m not a fan of Hamilton, but I’m tired of the unnecessary negativity revolving around him in the F1 community.

      1. @neutronstar I became turned off from LH’s personality when, imho, his 2015 WDC win went to his head, and he has acted like an entitled brat since. Spending 2016 accusing his own team of sabotage was disgusting. He comes across as a Kanye West wannabe, and there’s someone I haven’t an ounce of respect for. LH has got plenty of support. He doesn’t need mine. You said yourself he can be a polarizing character. Why then would you be ‘absolutely shocked’ if that characteristic of him has some giving negative comments? Doesn’t that define polarization? L

        1. Spending 2016 accusing his own team of sabotage was disgusting

          Lies, didn’t happen. More of your twisting the facts Robbie. Show me one quote from Hamilton where he said Mercedes sabotaged him.

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