Kevin Magnussen, McLaren, Monza, 2014

Did Magnussen deserve a penalty for Bottas move?

2014 Italian Grand Prix

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Kevin Magnussen, McLaren, Monza, 2014Kevin Magnussen fell foul of the stewards again at Monza, where he was given a penalty for driving standards for the second race in a row.

This time the McLaren driver was given a five-second time penalty after pushing Valtteri Bottas onto the run-off at the Rettifilio chicane.

Bottas had drawn slightly ahead of the McLaren on the way into the corner, but was edged off the track as they turned into the right-hand part of the chicane.

The stewards ruled Magnussen “did not leave enough room for car 77 [Bottas] in turn one and forced him off the track”. He was given a five-second penalty which was added to his race time at the end of the race, dropping him from seventh to tenth.

He was penalised under article 16.1 of the Sporting Regulations which says drivers can be penalised if they”illegitimately prevent a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver” or “illegitimately impede another driver during overtaking”.

Five-second penalties, which were introduced this year, are the most lenient sanctions available to the stewards. At Spa 20 seconds were added to Magnussen’s race time in lieu of a drive-through penalty after he forced Fernando Alonso off the track on the straight.

McLaren team principal Eric Boullier thought Magnussen was hard done by. “In the closing stages he and Valtteri were involved in a spirited and entertaining dice – the kind of wheel-to-wheel racing that Formula 1 fans thrill to see – and in our view he was unfortunate to be penalised for what we saw as a legitimate defence,” he said.

Was Magnussen’s penalty fair? Are the stewards pursuing him too vigorously as he shares the lead in the penalty points table? Cast your vote and have your say below.

Magnussen's penalty for pushing Bottas off was:

  • Far too harsh (33%)
  • Slightly too harsh (36%)
  • Fair (27%)
  • Slightly too lenient (2%)
  • Far too lenient (1%)
  • No opinion (1%)

Total Voters: 362

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Keith Collantine
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Posted on Categories 2014 F1 season, 2014 Italian Grand Prix, Debates and Polls, Kevin Magnussen

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  • 97 comments on “Did Magnussen deserve a penalty for Bottas move?”

    1. That was overbearing and uncalled for. KevMag has become the poster child of race incident related infractions this year.

      Anyways, I am putting him up for the WDC next year. Him, Riccardo and LHam will sweat it out!

      1. You’re kidding right?

        1. You write own comment down

      2. Far too harsh!! esp when ROS punctured HAM and didn’t even got an investigation!!
        FIA … wake up!

    2. Nope. Didn’t make contact and Bottas’ race wasn’t compromised. Just some hard defending that has been harshly punished. If Magnussen gets a penalty for this then why didn’t Jenson get one for defending against Perez? The stewards say they want to be consistent but they can’t do it correctly for whatever reason.

      1. It wasn’t now but if there had been a lesser driver in that car he might have hit KV to begin with. Or ran over the sleeping police men and hit KV. Or ran over the sleeping police men, go airborne and end in the gravel. Just think what could happen if a certain Venezuelan sat in that car. Or Canamassas, or Cecotto Jr..

        1. +1
          Not compromising another driver’s race does not mean not penalising the other driver.
          Aside from the penalty itself being harsh or lenient, if a driver is not penalised for doing something wrong, then the driver might do dangerous maneuvers which may cause some serious consequences.

      2. @lawrence: I totally agree, I get it, that it wasn’t a entirely risk free move but Jenson’s move on Perez was the same….but poor Kevin gets a penalty and Jenson not. Doesn’t make any sense.

    3. As Bottas was halfway along-side Magnussen, he shouldn’t have forced him off the track and should have gave him more room.

      1. Bottas was on the outside attacking, the “hero” line, that doesn’t work if you don’t outbreak the one in front.

        1. Bottas was ahead at the point of braking. If Magnussen had done what Massa did with Hamilton, he would have had a cushy 7th place finish.

          1. Massa drove smart. Penalty likely assessed because Mags was behind in braking zone yet still asserted himself through the corner. Bottas was giving room to avoid contact– he could have squeezed Mags and forced the issue but didn’t– Mags took advantage of him being decent. Not sporting unless it’s the last couple of laps and you’re fighting for the win or championship.

          2. Still, it was borderline, and not deserving of a penalty.

          3. At the time, I imagine he thought he could keep Bottas behind him to the end of the race.

      2. Williams Massa and Bottas are the cry babies of the season.
        F1 should not be a sport where you are not allowed to race.
        There was no contact, Bottas did not lose a place and Magnussen had the line.

        Willams: “buuhhuuuhuuu, baaahaahaaa, someone does not let us overtake without a fight…Buuhuuuu”

        This penalty for pure racing is almost the last drop for me to stop watching F1. I loved it 30, 20 and 10 years ago. Now it’s almost a sport for people who do not want to take risks….

        1. You can argue over who had position; Bottas was in front, Magnussen had the inside line into the first part of the chicane, but had he left Bottas room, Bottas would have been in prime position for the second part of the chicane (as Hamilton was against Massa), however, it is worth noting that the reason there was no contact was *because* Bottas left the track. Had he taken the line Hamilton successfully took against Massa, there would have been contact, so I don’t think you can use the “no contact” argument.

        2. Williams Massa and Bottas are the cry babies of the season.

          Really? Wow. Bottas has nothing to do with the penalty whatsoever. He even stated in an interview later on he didn’t think MAG deserved the penalty. You’d think someone who watches the sport for 30 years knows something but no..

    4. No penalty deserved for Magnussen, never openend the steering to force Bottas off the track. Kept it as tight as possible an Bottas recognised he couldn’t make it so he went down the escape road

      1. True, but the issue with Magnussen is that Bottas was already there alongside him, so he shouldn’t have kept going that deep into the first corner because it is dangerous and it might have caused an accident, especially that Bottas has already almost passed Magnussen when they entered the first corner.

        1. BOT was never in front of MAG, he was alongside but never in front

          1. Sorry, but that’s simply not true, Bottas was ahead (maybe a quarter car length) going into the braking zone.

          2. At the moment of braking, Bottas was ahead of Magnussen, but instead of leaving space for Bottas, Magnussen squeezed his car into the first corner thus forcing him to go wide at the exit of turn one going into turn 2, which in turn forced Bottas off the track.

          3. It doesn’t matter if Bottas was ahead or not. Rules says that you have to leave space when the other guy is beside you even if it’s half way even.
            According to the letter of the law the decision was right.
            The problem is that afterwards Button wasn’t penalized for the same thing which shows they are just more willing to punish the young guy with no championship titles in his name and also that despite this being an offense it wasn’t an extremely
            bad situation and both got away with it so it doesn’t seem to comply with the new FIA policy of supposedly being more lenient.
            If they aren’t gonna be lenient on this then where they lenient with Rosberg or Alonso hitting Vettel at the last GP and why were they lenient with Button?

    5. I say fair to give a penalty BUT and I quote from the official F1 site:

      Note – Magnussen originally finished sixth but had 20s added to race time for forcing another car off track.

      So apparently this time it was ’15 seconds less’ more okay…?

      Also the interview with Ron Dennis about KM. “Just be more carefull but never change” is what RD said to KV on the phone. Well, maybe…

    6. To me the penalty wasn’t only for forcing Bottas off the track but also some extensive weaving he was doing. I would say it was a close call but he was a bit over the line

    7. I think it’s too harsh. The one is Spa I think was justified, this was just one of those situations where it was wheel to wheel racing, and two into one don’t go.
      The only thing that possibly changes it is the fact that Hamilton did the same move on Massa as Bottas did, and he wasn’t forced off. However, he was actually head. Bottas wasn’t quite. Essentially alongside, but not ahead and I think that’s the key.
      I do think it’s close, but not quite a penalty.
      DC made good comments about the late darting to defend from Magnussen. Maybe if he hadn’t been doing that he’d have gotten away with it.

      1. @philereid

        The only thing that possibly changes it is the fact that Hamilton did the same move on Massa as Bottas did, and he wasn’t forced off.

        I was severely disappointed with Massa not putting in any fight at all at that point. I was thinking “Why is he letting him through?”, and was seconded by Wurz´ commentary on the replay, asking the same thing.

        1. may be because Hamilton was so fast that he was already going to pass Massa sooner or later. Massa and Williams probably do not want to risk losing an opportunity to score a lot of points so Massa didn’t risk by defending hard against Hamilton. Yhe same doesn’t apply to Bottas-Magnussen move as both are in need of points and Bottas was clearly faster.

          1. @hzh00 I think so too. They saw what pace Rosberg had and Hamilton was even faster.

        2. I think that was from the moment Massa was actually doing a decent job by not turning on Hamilton trying to overtake him. Besides it was smart not to go crazy over Hamilton. He would just compromise his race trying to stop a car he couldn’t stop.
          I bet Williams are very happy he did nothing stupid with Hamilton behind him.

    8. Formula Indonesia (@)
      7th September 2014, 15:52

      If this kind of racing incident get a 5 second penalty then what about Perez on the same race and Rosberg in Belgium??

      1. Or for that matter Rosberg pushing Bottas of track in Hungary.

      2. Probably Magnussen doesn’t have enough money to bribe the F1 bosses…

    9. It’s a tough one… had it happened on just about any corner in the world I’d have said fair, but the nature of that particular chicane makes that sort of thing unavoidable on some occasions.

      Magnussen couldn’t really do anything to stop it happening… so I’d go slightly too harsh.

    10. Well. Kevin knows now, don’t defend if the other driver is not a rookie.
      Seriously, side by side in the first corner, Bottas trying on the outside, either you outbrake or you back down..
      He went for the hero line and didnt get it, that’s racing.

      1. Bottas was in front during and after braking though. So he did outbrake Magnussen and therefore had the right to the racing line.

        1. In front? You mean Magnussen didn’t have a wheel up on Bottas? We might have seen a different race.

          1. In the last race at Monza, Bottas was clearly ahead. Although he wasn’t on the racing line.

            Perhaps I have the benefit of watching BBC feed where it was clearly shown in the after race analysis.

    11. Slightly too harsh because it couldn’t be any less than 5 seconds, but unfair to me.

      1. +1. Let them race!

    12. He actually did two things wrong though. He moved too late under braking and he went wide through the chicane pushing Bottas off while Bottas was in front.

    13. As I´ve already stated elsewhere, I believe there shouldn´t have been a penalty this time. However, since the penalty given is the minimum if a penalty is given, I went with “slightly too harsh”. It wasn´t harsh, it was wrong.
      The penalty in Spa was correct, though, and I suspect the majority of those who disagree on that are still thinking about the wrong incident.

    14. By the letter of the regulations (If another driver has a significant part of his car alongside you must leave a car width & must not force him off track) it was deserved.

      However I had far more of a problem with the other bits of defensive driving he was doing.
      There was a few times when he left his defensive moves very late, several more where he was moving in the braking zones & a few more where he was making the moves in reaction to the car behind.

      1. So with that paragraph in mind, if Magnussen had gone slightly off line to the right in that corner, Bottas would have gotten a penalty??

        Where’s the sense in that?

        Pour decission to penalize Magnussen for a pure racing incident.
        SO many F1 stars should have have MINUTES of penalties for how they have been racing.

        F1 is obviously not a sport for real men anymore.

      2. +1. He flirts with blocking all the time. But I think he’ll get better when he’s not trying so hard to prove himself.

        1. We need drivers defending, F1 is all up to DRS now, we should hail someone defending and bringing real race back!

    15. It was a racing incident.

    16. what Bottas said:
      @willbuxton @ValtteriBottas said in a finnish post-race interview that in his opinion @KevinMagnussen didn’t deserve the penalty

      1. Nonetheless, Williams reported the incident anyways, and Bottas is just as guilty in making F1 a sissy as Williams.

        If the F1 races were real men, they would all stand together and ask for a 5 sec penalty as well to get Magnusson back on the correct finishing position.
        But hey, F1 is not worth watching anymore. There’s more excitement watching gymnastics…

    17. Where are the lenient stewards now?

      This was just a racing incident. Way too harsh.

      1. Magnussen is not as rich as many other drives. Hence no money to bribe the F1 bosses.

    18. Far too harsh definitely. Mag is being penalized for racing, which is unacceptable.

    19. 5seconds added to his final time seems OK. But if he deserved the indeed the penalty… then Ricciardo deserves a penalty too in my opinion, for his move at Raikkonen. It was quite the same thing.

    20. Slightly too harsh.

      At the chicane, there was nothing wrong, Magnussen took the racing line as he is entitled too.

      As for his move across the circuit, yes it was late, but it wasn’t as if Bottas was halfway alongside. It wasn’t as if Magnussen was driving like Gutierrez out there today.

    21. Would have written to Derwick Warwick about this, but he hasn’t discovered the internet yet, not mentioning 20 years of racing.

    22. Can McLaren appeal the penalty??

    23. It was a racing incident. Magnussen and Bottas were both fighting for the position. The stewards hold a personal grudge against Magnussen for some reason.

    24. Michael Brown (@)
      7th September 2014, 16:46

      I’m not a fan of pushing drivers off the track, but the stewards have set a precedent by allowing drivers to push others off in the middle of a corner. If you look at the past few years, and even this year, when Hamilton was defending from Rosberg in Bahrain, he would usually squeeze Rosberg off the track at turn 4. And even this race, Button does the exact same thing to Perez and doesn’t even get investigated.

      My opinion is Magnussen deserved the penalty. These kinds of moves are unsportsmanlike, but the stewards have been allowing them for years and only penalize Magnussen for such a move, and nobody else. So I’m obviously unhappy with the consistency of the stewards in this decision.

      They probably only penalized him because he sent Bottas over the sleeping policemen.

    25. I think if he repeated the move a penalty would have been needed for definite, but he should have just got warned on the first occasion.

    26. I disagree entirely with this decision.
      Where were the lenient stewards this time? They didn’t punish Rosberg in Belgium because of their new relaxed approach. Which I like by the way. But how could Magnussen be punished for a move done a million times before, even when the stewards were at their harshest?
      What about Button vs Perez? Was that so much different? I don’t think so.
      The outside line is, and has always been a brave line to take. You always risk getting run out of road. Bottas accepted the risk and it didn’t work out. But there was no contact, and Bottas’ race wasn’t hampered in any significant way.
      If this deserved a penalty then I don’t know what Rosberg deserved a few weeks ago in Belgium.

    27. no, he didn’t deserve it. pretty much the same thing happened with vettel and rosberg on the first lap of spa this year. vettel is alongside rosberg, maybe even ahead of rosberg and vettel had to take the escape route, since he was taking the “hero”-line. vettel even lost two positions, not even an investigation was held.

      i think the FIA are ridiculous. they said “we won’t penalise small incidents anymore” earlier this year, and now for two races in a row, an unjustified penalty was spoken out to the same driver. also another case of ridiculous penalties, time time way too lenient, it says in the regulations, team personell on the grid at the 15 seconds mark results in a 10 second stop and go penalty, yet alonso only got a five second penalty that he could hold in his pitstop. ridiculous.

      it’s a shame, magnussen has really proved himself these last two races, as a driver who is really hard to overtake. he fights hard but fair. maybe he needs to switch sides a tad earlier, but we can’t forget that he’s still a rookie. he’ll learn it with time, but that doesn’t justify the penalties.

    28. I believe he deserved it once again. At some point he must realize when his rival is side by side he can’t claim the whole width of the track. The best example I have seen in a long time of what hard defending but fair is the Perez/Button side by side in the lesmos at the ragged edge but fair play that is racing! Not the repetitive Magnussen nonsense.

      1. ridiculous, Perez went of to avoid that, same situation!

        1. I mean the second time the came together 2 laps later. And yes Button did the same but Perez “escaped” so no harm was done on the other hand Bottas just couldn’t. See? simple not ridiculous.

          1. Bottas “escaped” to???

      2. @philby
        Funny that you mention Button vs Perez, as Button also forced Perez off the track! In exactly the same manner as Magnussen did, at the chicane after curva grande.

        1. Best thing is Kevins comment. Last time it was 20 sec., this time is was 5 sec, next time I might be allowed to race

        2. And Perez somehow retained the position when Bottas was denied. Why is it so hard to understand the difference?

          1. Again, Bottas retained?

    29. KM should have been at least a little more careful after Spa. Fair decision for me, but I would’ve given him penality points.

    30. Racing incident, no penalty needed.

      Both drivers did well to avoid a collision, especially Bottas bailing out when he recognized Magnussen could not turn any sharper.

      1. Not even an incident…:-)….So Racing, no pernalty needed.

    31. I’m with Martin Brundle on this one, absolutely ludicrous. Where else was KM supposed to turn? You can’t make a car defy the laws of physics when turning. When Sky showed a shot of the two from the front KV was already looking and steering significantly to the right as it was.

      If a racing incident that ruins a championship challengers race didn’t warranty a penalty, I don’t see the logic of a penalty for an incident that made no difference to either drivers race. Truly bizarre.

      1. Agree 1000000% Magnussen had the apex, he was inside. Bottas decided to take the outside into T1, a his own risk. There was no space for both in that chicane and Magnussen just kept his racing line. Magnussen could have been much harder on Bottas. Bottas decided to continue in the run off area because he realised he had no space. Please, let’s be serious. Magnussen did everything correctly. Bottas dared few meters too much

    32. I voted on ‘slightly too harsh’, but in retrospect, I think it’s very hard to judge and I’d now choose ‘no opinion’ – which still does not reflects reality, but there is no ‘I don’t know’ option and that is the closest to it.

      The problem is that one cannot say for sure – without telemetry, that is – whether Magnussen steered wide on the exit of T1 because of the sheer speed he carried into the corner, or because he intended to squeeze Bottas.

      In the first case, he absolutely does not deserve any kind of penalty. He braked and managed to stay within the limit of grip, went where physics let him go and that’s it.

      In the second case, however, it was nothing different to his Belgian incident: he had a car very much alongside him and did not left it enough room on the track. Being in a corner instead of on a straight makes no difference in this case (i. e. if it can be said it was 100% a squeeze and not the above situation).

      Taking these into consideration, if one cannot have telemetry, like me, I feel like he or she should give him the benefit of doubt.

      1. *reflect

    33. I agree with the penalty, not so much for the given reason but rather because of the build up of dangerous moves he made during the race. You can’t wait until you’re 50m from the braking point and the guy is right up your exhaust, then suddenly decide you want to defend the inside.

      1. So you think he should be penalised for something else, and that things build up? So you have the force to penalize for things added up, never the less of what the Marshalls think? May the force be with you,,

    34. Firstly, I think Mag drove a stellar race, he beat his experienced team-mate on track and most impressively did not make a mistake when Perez was all over him.

      But the penalty was correct (IMHO). He forced Bottas off track when Bottas had already passed him on the straight. He immediately should have given the place back to Bottas.
      Then he would not have gotten a penalty; probably ending up 5th; and Bottas could have tried to catch Massa.

    35. @coldfly Look Again, Bottas wasn’t past, Magnussen had a Wheel on him, turning in, and Mag on the inside.

      1. @mian, I did look again and even took a screen shot.
        Bottas was half a car ahead. Even the official FIA position listing gave BOT ahead of MAG (top left of image)!

        1. Was he a car lengt hahead? If KMag had a Wheel up on him, he should have been given space..
          And Again, Bottas response:
          @ValtteriBottas said in a finnish post-race interview that in his opinion @KevinMagnussen didn’t deserve the penalty

    36. Hell no! Magnussen had the apex, he was inside. Bottas decided to take the outside into T1, a his own risk. There was no space for both in that chicane and Magnussen just kept his racing line. Magnussen could have been much harder on Bottas. Bottas decided to continue in the run off area because he realised he had no space. Please, let’s be serious. Magnussen did everything correctly. Bottas dared few meters too much

    37. Magnussens comment:
      KM: I was braking really late – as late as I could – and was moved to the right. Bottas is such a fair driver so there was no reason to put him off of the track. I am sad that this situation turned into a penalty because I really enjoyed racing against him as he is such a great driver

    38. And:
      Q: Ron Dennis is said to have told you after Spa to keep on racing – just to be a bit more careful…
      KM: I was a bit more careful: this time the penalty was five seconds and not 20.

    39. FIA is ruining F1 with these kind of penalties. There was nothing in that incident, that hasen’t been done countless of times before. Penalty for fighting? Come on!!

      I decided to turn of the rest of the race for the day. Been watching F1 for at least 15 years now, but lately I really don’t care if I miss a race or not.

      1. Brego I cannot blame you, because races should be only be decided at The desk in Extreme cases – if not F1 make no sense.

    40. It was exciting racing, but Magnussen gained a position by forcing another driver off the track. Had Magnussen given the position back, it would have been uncalled for. Since he ran another driver off and kept the advantage, I would say it’s fair.

      I doubt that’s how the stewards looked at it, but that’s my take on the whole thing.

    41. If a driver is not allowed to defend his position the way K Mag did then it is not Racing and F1 will loose its spectators. If a lot of drivers get away with similar driving without even being under investigation by The stewards and K Mag get penalised very harsh then it is not a sport but a mascarade. I have already spend more than 2000 USD to go see The JP Grandprix coming up and right now I am concerned that I an wasting my time and FIA stewards once again will steal The spotlight and continue killing F1 slowly – where will F1 if talented rookies are not allowed to race but The F1 Champions are? What would Senna and Schumi say about this development? I say disgrace.

    42. http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/championship/documents/document35.pdf
      Did anyone read the official reason by the FIA?
      Offence Breach of Article 16.1 d) of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations
      16.1 d) says he got the penalty because of causing a collision. To my knowledge they never touched

      Are u sure u put they right reason there Mr. Warwick?

    43. Tom (@mashmanmandela)
      8th September 2014, 18:42

      I think it was harsh. Ok Bottas may have lost a bit of time but it didn’t affect either drivers race (until Magnussen got slapped with the penalty obviously). On one hand we’ve had drivers hit others and not even get investigated for causing a collision, and for that Magnussen gets 5 seconds… Seems illogical to me.

    44. Kenn (@humbleridderen)
      8th September 2014, 22:02

      I only wonder why others didnt get a penalty for similar driving like f.ex. Jenson

    45. Considering the way the stewards have been going with penalties lately and the moves some other drivers have got away with I was surprised that Magnussen received a penalty for pushing Bottas off.

      However I do like the flexibility of the new punishments where 5 seconds can be added to his race time rather than having to serve a drive through or the equivalent be added to his race time.

    Comments are closed.