Max Verstappen, Red Bull, Nurburgring, 2020

Mongolian government urges UN to take action against Verstappen and Red Bull

2020 F1 season

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The government of Mongolia has drawn the United Nations into its complaint against Max Verstappen, accusing the Red Bull driver of failing to publicly apologise for repeatedly using racist language.

Verstappen’s use of the word “mongol” on two occasions, at this year’s Portuguese Grand Prix and during the 2017 United States Grand Prix, is detailed in a letter from Mongolia’s ambassador and permanent representative to the UN, Lundeg Purevsuren, to the UN’s representatives on matters relating to racism.

Purevsuren criticised the response he received from Verstappen’s Red Bull team to a letter he sent them last week, following the driver’s outburst in Portugal. Verstappen referred to rival Lance Stroll as a “mongol” following a collision between the pair, which was broadcast live on the F1 TV streaming service.

RaceFans understands Red Bull’s response to Purevsuren characterised Verstappen’s remarks as comments made in the heat of the moment which were not intended to cause offence.

Asked about his entire tirade at Stroll, in which he also called the driver a “retard” and swore several times, Verstappen acknowledged his words were “not correct” but added those who were unhappy with his outburst don’t “need to make it bigger than it is”. He told Fox Sports Asia he “never intended to offend anyone in the world”.

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Red Bull team principal Christian Horner described Verstappen’s response as an emotional reaction. Horner said the team “don’t condone Max’s comments on the team radio” the day after he made them. “They were made in the heat of the moment when emotions were running high and Max did not mean to cause any offence. We have discussed this with Max internally.”

Max Verstappen, Red Bull, Autodromo do Algarve, 2020
Collision with Stroll triggered Verstappen’s outburst
The Mongolian government considers Verstappen’s comments a matter of “serious importance” because he has used “similar language in 2017 during the Formula 1 US Grand Prix,” wrote Purevsuren. “In both cases he refused to apologise publicly for using… words based on the term ‘mongol’ [and] respect the Mongolian nation and community.

“It is [obvious] that him and the Aston Martin Red Bull Racing Team did not learn the lesson in 2017, insisting that it was not his problem if anyone [was] offended by his language. Unfortunately, [the] lack of proper response from the Aston Martin Red Bull Racing Team management and their attempts to stop the driver’s unacceptable behaviour as ’emotional outburst’ have a negative effect on their image.”

Purevsuren asked the UN to support their complaint against the team and its sponsors.

“Recalling the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination adopted in 1965 and the Guiding Principles on Business and Human Rights, endorsed in 2011, in [particular] its articles 11 to 15, I urge for your support to take actions against Max Verstappen and the Aston Martin Red Bull Racing Team and their sponsors for his unacceptable behaviour of repeatedly using racist and derogatory language against any ethnic groups in order to prevent the recurrence of such unethical behaviour in sports.”

Purevsuren’s letter was sent to Li Yanduan, the chairperson of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination and E. Tendayi Achiume, the UN’s special rapporteur on contemporary forms of racism, and copied to FIA president Jean Todt.

In June Formula 1 launched its “#WeRaceAsOne” initiative to “show that we as a sporting community stand united against racism”. It supports the FIA’s “#PurposeDriven” movement in which the sport’s governing body committed “to fight systemic racism and prejudice”.

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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  • 272 comments on “Mongolian government urges UN to take action against Verstappen and Red Bull”

    1. It must be a peculiarly Dutch insult, as we use to level the same insult at our friends whilst going to an Afrikaans-speaking school in South Africa. It’s a term for “someone lacking mental ability” and so is an incredibly immature and insensitive thing to say. It’s offensive to those afflicted by the condition. As I’m no longer a child, I can recognise that.

      What this has to do with the Mongolian government entirely escapes me though. I suggest they might want to google “Barbara Streisand effect”.

      1. It’s had its uses in English too (particularly if one has partaken in too much “vitamin green”).

        The Elon Musk tweet about the guy who said that the submarine Musk offered was useless also sets a precedent: an insult is free speech rather than slander.

        FOM TV could easily have beeped over it.

        None of the above excuses child like behaviour, but I think the UN have greater problems to solve.

        1. Not George, only the USA regards that to be the case – even the Netherlands does not consider an insult to be “free speech” (as far as I know, it has no such category, only distinguishing regular speech from illegal speech), and discriminatory speech is illegal in the EU, including when said to someone (with any intent) who isn’t a member of the group discriminated against. (In fact, its being used as an insult makes it worse). It doesn’t make it slander either (unless the insult was taken to be a descriptor, which nobody is doing in this case) – the problem is it is discriminatory speech.

          F1TV can’t bleep over live radio the way it can delayed material. In case you are wondering, this is why in-race radio on the world feed that goes to broadcasters is delayed and bleeped over – after a case where 2 people complained to OFCOM about Giancarlo Fisichella swearing 12 laps into the first race that mainstream broadcasters were permitted access to live radio, FOM decided that continuing the feature would cause more problems than it was worth. Liberty opted to re-enable it for F1TV, primarily because it’s a paid service and the easily-offended could in most cases opt for their local F1 provider instead.

      2. More complex than that.

        Phrase originated as slur for Down’s syndrome patients, saying that they looked Mongolian. Mongo- Mongolian oid- like. Mongoloid.

        It’s offensive to those with Down’s because you’re saying they all look Mongolian and it’s offensive to Mongolians because you’re saying they all look disabled, so it works both ways.

        It’s not an acceptable word to use. What’s sad is that Max is too young to have picked this up with it’s true meaning and he probably uses it in a similar way to the way one would use the word idiot, cretin or retard. None of which are professional, but don’t carry the same weight to a specific group of people.

        1. Would definitely say r*tard is a specific slur against neurodiverse people, especially autistic people and it’d get you in a lot of trouble in most contexts outside Xbox live or whatever.

          1. It is interesting how r*tard has pivoted to now become more offensive than many of the host of words it originally was brought in to replace, such as idi*t (dont know how draconian the filter is). Where do you stand on the issue of any of the old medical-terms-come-insults that are used nowadays?

            1. I think it would be a lot kinder if we just didn’t use them. There are much better insults.

            2. Fair enough, although i guess all insults have to be nasty in some way, as to be fit for purpose. Judging by the timing, i guess you have the job of going down the moderation queue? I bets thats fun today, lmao.

            3. Medical terms should never be used as insults, be they new or not-so-new (I say not-so-new because some people diagnosed as the “old terms” are still alive today).

          2. I think you live in a very sheltered environment if saying the word “retard” gets you into a lot of trouble. (I’m not saying whether it is correct or not to say it). I’d say that’s even more the case in an environment such as motosport.

            1. I, uh, work in motorsport…

              I think there’s an idea that removing these words from your vocabulary is softening the world, somehow; in reality, it’s probably because you’ve been exposed to enough of life to realise the damage they cause. There are lots of people who think they’re harmless or whatever because they’re naive and inconsiderate about understanding why they cause harm and it’d only be an immature environment where it was broadly tolerated.

              People swear a lot in motorsport (I have a total potty mouth myself) but you can be crude without hurting people. It doesn’t make you a bigger person to be casual about doing harm and while there are also people who’ll outright say sexist or racist things in any industry it’s not something that gets you respect.

          3. I the rslur specific to autistic people?

            1. More prevalent with*

            2. It particularly gets used against autistic and neurodivergent people, as well as people with intellectual disabilities.

            3. @e20in00 It was originally used specifically against people with the sort of intellectual disabilities an IQ test measures. However, the insult gradually got used against anyone who was intellectually thought to be “lesser”. Given the pecking order of typical peer groups, this meant all sorts of neurodiverse people bore the brunt of that particular linguistic shift, as @hazelsouthwell said..

        2. Thanks. I appreciate the additional context.

          1. We used it as kids with the suffix ‘oid’ on the end, and it related to someones mental capabilities, the first time someone got sent off in one of our football matches is because a teammate used it, and I don’t think I’ve heard it since, we were probably 12 or so at the time.

            Swearing is one thing, weirdly all languages follow the same pattern, bodily functions and sexual functions, with blasphemous / religious terminology at the lower end. Whether you speak Korean, Cantonese, Russian, French etc, swearing is based around ‘C**t, F**k*, S**t, P**s’ etc, in an interchangeable order, but basically things you do in private. (Steven Pinker does a great job of detailing this, and how French-Canadian somehow got blasphemous to the top of the offence scale, but seems to be the only language to do it). ‘Tabernac’ to any French speaking Canadians.

            But when Max said what he said he wasn’t swearing, he could have easily called Lance a ‘D**khead’ and it would have been fine (most of us would have said something similar).

            He said something separate to swearing, the rules of language are dictated by a common understanding, and yes the rules shift, but only because of communication. We all say things in the heat of the moment, and that word is an odd one, but a simple sorry is enough, nobody expects Max or everybody else to know the ins and outs of every word. When he was dismissive of it, it doesn’t look good, if I went to someones house and at the end of the night someone said to me ‘I wish you hadn’t said that’, I’d look into why I shouldn’t have said it, rather than dismiss it, and I’d probably see the greater context of the words, rather than how I thought it looked at the time.

            I think the word is unnecessary, he should be better than that, but a simple sorry and not doing it again is enough. And then United Nations, Red Bull, Mongolia and Lance Stroll can get on with their lives.

            I learnt as a child not to say it, I’m sure Max can.

            1. But when Max said what he said he wasn’t swearing, he could have easily called Lance a ‘D**khead’ and it would have been fine

              Thing is though @bernasaurus, we do have to keep in mind that while Max’ english is excellent, he is not a native speaker.
              A word like that is completely different than anything one would curse in Dutch (while the one he used is more or less the same) wouldn’t come to his mind in such a moment, i would think.

              That doesn’t change anything substantial in your comment off course, I wholly agree that most people learn not to use such slurs well before they get into a professional career.

            2. In the southern provinces, ‘verrekte ****’ is very commonly used and it would flap out as soon as something happens. Just like swearing with cancer or other fatal diseases is almost non-prevalent in English speaking nations, the Dutch (especially the Hague area with proven example) almost make a sport out of it.

              If you want to learn Dutch swearing fast, try New Kids Turbo and Nitro. ;) You even get the proper dialect of Max with it.

              D**khead has no direct translation as a swearword in Dutch, so wouldn’t be used to curse at someone in the heat of the moment and it would do nothing to vent frustrations.

            3. @bernasaurus Unfortunately, Max already said “I won’t do it again”… …three years ago…

            1. I get what you’re saying BasCB but that won’t hold with a foreign government when it comes as a word spoken in the middle of an English sentence. Had it been contained within a sentence of Dutch, nobody would know.

            2. So Max should have said: oh wow, its Stroll our neurodiverse token Canadian driver, sorry, continue crashing into me please.

            3. @maxv it comes across that you’re complaining that others “shouldn’t take offence at what Max is saying”, whilst simultaneously getting extremely offended because somebody has had the temerity to criticise Max. By your own standards, shouldn’t you be prepared to not take offence that somebody has criticised the language that he has used?

            4. @anon just tired of social justice warriors dictating who is offended by what.

            5. @maxv No, Max should have said something like “Oh, wow, it’s Stroll who’s driving badly” or words to that effect. To take a football metaphor, aim for the ball, not the player.

    2. The Mongolian government and Max Verstappen between them are likely to do such mutual damage as to make a small if unpleasantly nasty comment into a lesson in idiocy.

      1. I guess Mongolia is a very nice and very well ruled countries, given the fact they have time to bring something like this to the UN.

        1. @mosquito They’re one of the few nations on Earth to have had nobody die of COVID-19 – that might have freed up their schedule some…

    3. Even Andrea Moda never ended up getting the United Nations involved in anything they did. A simple ‘I didn’t realise’ press release afterwards would have cleared it all up in a matter of seconds.

      1. Correct.

        But why hasn’t that happened?

        1. Because max is nuerologically challenged. Won’t survive the Mods but hey ho.

      2. It’s going to take this meathead longer than Senna to grow up. Hasn’t he been in F1 5 years now?

    4. Mongool (as pronounced in Dutch) =>
      noun
      person of borderline intelligence
      moron; → idioot; mongool;

      What does this have anything to do with the people of Mongolia?

      1. Nothing at all so just ignore the ‘idioots’ seems the meaning has somewhere hitting the truth.

      2. See my comment above ^ it’s rooted in the origins of the word.

      3. Mark in Florida
        3rd November 2020, 16:08

        Please don’t confuse the issue with anything intelligent. Mongolia needs it’s fifteen minutes of fame to be relevant nowadays. Virtue signalling has reached to the farthest extent of the world. What would Genghis Khan think?

        1. There’s quite a few questionable takes in this thread but whether Ghenghis Khan would think modern Mongolia was too sensitive is absolutely nuclear.

          1. Yes Mongolia is such a perfect nation and F1 would never be bribed to go to a race in a non ethical country. Might as well stop F1 if social correctness is the norm.

            1. @maxv That still doesn’t make Genghis Khan a moral icon.

              (for the record, p confident his approach would have been to murderously invade the Netherlands for the insult, so not sure he’d see asking the UN about it as ‘overreacting’)

          2. @hazelsouthwel Thank you for the brilliant wording, I needed the laugh from the image of Genghis Khan appraising the world in 2020…

            1. @hazelsouthwell (Take 2 since I apparently can’t spell today) Thank you for the brilliant wording, I needed the laugh from the image of Genghis Khan appraising the world in 2020…

        2. At a time when China is working hard to suppress the identity of Mongolians, this is a big issue for them. If it wasn’t enough that on one side, they have the Chinese saying Mongolians shouldn’t even learn Mongolian in school, when they look at Europe, there’s a spoiled brat insulting a colleague by calling him a Mongol and a big chunk of the sport’s bcommunity saying ”well that’s no big deal, who gives a shut about Mongolia, Mongolians, Mongols, ‘retards’ or Lance Stroll”. So classy of F1.

      4. Add Stroll as a synonym

    5. LOL. This is getting nothing but ridiculous. Could we please move on from this?

      1. On the one hand, yes it’s out of hand but I would also say look at it from another standpoint. If he has used a derogatory term for black people that I won’t mention here but you can imagine, would people not be up in arms?

        Because it is a people who have not had much of a spotlight and are not in the world focus does not make it a lesser issue.

      2. @jerejj tell that to the Mongolian people!

      3. @jerejj The only thing that is getting ridiculous is Verstappen’s refusal to publicly and properly apologise for his actions

          1. He didn’t though. He explained it away by stating that he didn’t mean to offend anyone.

            1. And that is an excuse.
              Move on.

              You really think a other wording, results in more impact?
              No it’s just being politically correct now.

            2. erikje, you’re misusing ‘political correct’. It’s never ‘politically correct’ for the target of an abusive expression to object to its use. In this case Verstappen insulted people from a country (represented by their ambassador), people with trisomy 21, and Stroll. As I pointed out below, Verstappen is the brand driver for a company with a turnover roughly half that of the country he insulted. Global corporations are nation-sized today. So Verstappen, like it or not, has to be far more diplomatic in all senses. He benefits hugely from soft drink sales worldwide, paying him big wages and allowing him to race in Formula 1 at the front (more or less). He should now be mature enough to grasp the fact that the privilege he has carries responsibility too.

            3. Telling people they shouldn’t feel offended is not an excuse.

            4. @f1saurus.

              telling people they shouldn’t feel offended is not an excuse.

              thats not the same as:

              he didn’t mean to offend anyone.

              Strawman approach i see..

            5. Well that’s what it boils down to. Don’t be offended since I didn’t mean to.

              Either way, whatever you are trying to spin this, it’s not an excuse. It needs to contain either of the two magic words to be one.

              To be honest I’m more appalled about the total lack of respect he’s showing to his colleague’s pretty much every race weekend , but I guess we just have to stomach that. There are no UN interventions there. Karma does seem to be taking care of it though.

          2. Ni he didn’t. If was done by his team and any “apology” madeby max was his swift dismissal that anyone should be offended.
            I mean… I get it. It’s a real non issue but Max can’t pick and choose how his fame reverberates. He wants to but he can’t.

        1. The only thing ridiculous is peoples obsession with public apology everytime someone says or does something. So het said some bad words, big whoop. Just like 99.9999% of the world. People are so over sensitive nowadays it’s just pathatic. The more people try to pressure him into an apology, the more he should refuse. He said a common word (yes in dutch it is a common word used as an insult or friendly banter) in the heat of the moment, just like 100% of other athletes do. Just get over it.

          1. I think we’ve got the point by now that it’s common to use in Dutch. Is that supposed to impress anyone? Should be a point of national shame.

            1. That means we should ignore it completly if Red Bull want publish something let them.

            2. The point is that in Dutch it has nothing to do with the country. In the heat of the moment he fell back on an insult that has a much less negative connotation than in English. Doesn’t make it something to be proud of, but does explain that he didn’t try to insult an ethnic group.

            3. @stijner But if so the question is not intention but ignorance (of the origin of the term). That doesn’t make it any less insulting, although Verstappen saying he’ll learn from it is the adequate response (presuming he does).

          2. everytime someone says or does something

            Well when people make very derogatory comments it does make sense though.

            Or even better, stop doing it and get some control over the constant road rage.

          3. I agree. The world is full of snowflakes now. People cannot take anything, anymore. Please find me a safe place. hahahahaha

      4. If Max doesn’t apologize publicly, Red Bull should sack him.

        1. Ok. So he used some swearwords. As a Dutchman, the word has nothing to do with the country or inhabitants of Mongolia. I think few Dutchman even know about the country of Mongolia, where it lies and how the inhabitants are called or look like. So there is no way it is meant as an insult to the country of Mongolia.
          Dutch people are blunt, and some more than others. Max is really blunt, and as he is also very young, you get these outbursts when someone cuts you off at 250km/h (150mph). I bet you would yell some words yourself when this happens on the freeway. Depending on where you come from, you will use your local insults and swearwords.

          Mr Purevsuren obviously didn’t do any research into Dutch language, nor is he a fan of Formula 1 to understand all of the above.
          So Mr Purevsuren, if anyone should be offended, it would be the people in our country that are suffering from the Down syndrome. These are called ‘Mongols’ in our language. I would suggest first try to solve your own discrimination and human rights violations in your own country, before you try to accuse the best Formula 1 talent of the world of something he did not mean when taking context into consideration.

          PS Dave: I was going to say that it is naive to think Red Bull would sack Max for swearing during racing. Next time they will turn of the radio.

          1. As a fellow Dutchman I can only say amen to that. Maybe you can blame Max for not understanding the connotation the word ‘mongol’ has in the english language (because in Holland nobody in their right mind presumes to talk about an inhabitant of the country of Mongolia when they are calling someone a ‘mongol’) and/or referring to Stroll as an ‘idiot’,’wanker’ or ‘retard’, but I think it is completely blown out of proportion when you want to raise this (non)issue with the UN. Probably for the publicity only, I guess.

          2. Davethechicken
            3rd November 2020, 15:36

            @Niek
            Do explain how, having already being disciplined by the FIA in 2017 for the exact same reason, that Max would not have known it to be racist and abilist?
            He had to switch on his microphone to transmit the insults.
            Your argument hinges on his ignorance, which is clearly wrong.
            Also the fact he has to actively turn on the microphone shows it wasn’t heat of the moment at all.

            1. As a fellow realist I can only say amen to that! 😁

            2. The thing about the microphone is a strange one though Dave. Why? Because it actually points to Liberty having to apologize to the world for putting these radio messages out into the world in the first place – they have editorial choice in what gets broadcast.

          3. Well, well Niek, and Jan. I am a fellow Dutchguy. And I know fully well where the word came from – it clearly was associated with the country. And it got used because of how many people with Down syndrome have a vague “asian” look if you want. Now, since I grew up in the early 80s, I am sure things have changed, and maybe now people 2 decades younger doe not think about that.

            But then, we have now grown to understand how racial slurs, and abelist slurs actually hurt the people they are thrown at. And there is no good reason not to stop using them. And all the reason to find better ways to call people out.

            1. Davethechicken
              3rd November 2020, 20:52

              Bascb
              Re liberty broadcasting it, I totally agree. It shouldn’t have been broadcast.

          4. Red Bull should have sacked Max after Baku 2018.

    6. Google ‘mongolia human rights wikepedia’. A small snippet:

      ‘Among the serious human-rights problems that face Mongolia, especially within the police and security sector, are the abuse of prisoners by police, uneven law enforcement, poor prison conditions, arbitrary arrest, excessively long periods of pretrial detention, judicial corruption, lack of media independence, government secrecy, domestic violence, and trafficking in persons.’

      Cheap moral high ground publicity for them whilst their own house burns.

      Not condoning Max but some context please.

      1. Exactly. If Red Bull had guts they would respond by filing a complain to the UN about something like this.

      2. That would be a straw man argument. What Max did was wrong, making poor choices has consequences, some small, some not so small. What can the UN really do anyway, it’s not like they have any power to do much to him. This is not about moral high ground, it’s literally an ambassadors job to ensure the reputation of his country his upheld and the words Max used were disrespectful in his eyes.

        1. Davethechicken
          3rd November 2020, 15:43

          FIA should ban him for a race or two this season..
          Won’t matter as he and RBR are no longer in contention for either constructors or drivers championships.
          Make a stand against racism and abilism.
          Move on.
          The strangest thing is why the FIA ignored the insult when it was aimed at another driver but took action when it was aimed at a steward.

          1. I think that is a little bit of an over reaction as it’s pretty clear Verstappen didn’t go out of his way to try and insult a nation, it was offence through ignorance which we’re all guilty of on occasions. He just needs to make it clear that what he said was not acceptable and the entire matter swept away.

            1. Davethechicken
              3rd November 2020, 17:29

              @slowmo
              I think he was using it as an abilist insult to Stroll likening him to someone with Downs syndrome.
              This is extremely unpleasant and unacceptable. On its own it should receive sanction.
              But he clearly was also aware of all the issues around racism given what happened in 2017.
              First offence I would agree apologise.
              Second offence needs punished.
              How far would you let drivers go? There are lots of racist terms for many countries and ethnicities
              Which are OK in your book and which are taboo (if any)?

            2. Hi Dave,

              Who decides what the line is between what you can call someone, and what not? Who decides that? You, the FIA, the UN, local governments? And who decides when someone receives punishment for it?

              Ofcourse it’s not nice to call Stroll that. But Stroll was being an idiot for cutting him off, drivers can get injured or even die from actions like that. At that moment in time driving 150mph, someone cuts you off and plays literally with your life, can you expect him/her to yell political correct insults? Ofcourse not. You say whatever comes to mind. And in some languages, swearwords are more offensive than others.

              It’s clear that Verstappen is foulmouthed, and that it is not something to admire.
              Is he ignorant for not learning his lesson in 2017? Yes probably.
              Should he be punished for it? He should get a warning, and make a public statement. And be done with it.

            3. Davethechicken
              4th November 2020, 16:21

              Hi Niek
              For me the fundamental problem is he almost certainly knows the term to have racial and abilist connotations but uses it anyway.
              When challenged when the dust had settled his “not my problem” remark shows no care, despite knowing the offence the term causes.
              You also paint Max as an innocent party in the crash.
              Max could clearly see the racing point but still managed to drive into it. Stroll has stated he didn’t know Max was attempting to overtake and didn’t see him
              Therefore Max is the only one who can avoid the accident.
              This is practice not a race.
              Max should have backed out, but seemed willing to have a collision at “150mph” endangering himself, Stroll and both cars, rather than back out. Do you think the anger started before the accident?

    7. This gets better, hahaha. A guy who wants his five minutes of fame.

    8. 1 country behaving like an idiot. UN even more ridiculous.
      Yes Max’s language wasn’t big or clever.
      However, the context of the particular word was in no way referring to that country or it’s people.
      A. Mongolia get a grip. B. UN haven’t you got anything else to do?

      1. Please enlightened us on why the UN is being ridiculous. The UN just received the complaint from the Mongolian government.

        1. They got a complaint from the wrong word that means it get dropped very fast!

      2. @wildbiker

        The UN hasn’t got anything better to do, since they are also campaigning against mansplaining, one of the major crimes against humanity.

      3. @wildbiker The origins of that word involve comparing someone with a disability to people of a particular race. It’s a two-way insult when used the way Max used it.

        Also, the UN has a lot of departments. WHO is the one that’s sorting out COVID; there are other departments for discrimination that get their own budgets (although the one for disability is within WHO, which may explain why the official complaint is going through the “racism” and not the “disablism” route).

      4. @wildbiker
        I advise you to do some research on the issue in order to understand it better. You will find out that the Mongolian government first complained to the UN against the use of this word in 1961. the UN accepted the complain, and in 1965, the WHO officially changed the word to Down syndrome.

    9. My god, have they got nothing better to do!?
      This really makes me furious.

      Like was said in the comments of the earlier articles, in Dutch ‘mongol’ is a term used just as casually as ‘retard’ in English and used to be a politically correct word for someone with Down’s syndrome until not so long ago. In no way was Max’ intention to “use racist and derogatory language against any ethnic groups”.

      Of course he could apologise, but what comes to mind is the video of the press conference where Vettel steps in to defend Hamilton about the language he used, saying “it’s not justified to make a story out of nothing when every word we say is recorded in situations where we are full of adrenaline and sometimes don’t react the way we should; it’s a human reaction”.

      Referring to the UN Guiding Principles is almost comically out of proportion. I happen to work with the UNGPs. They are set up to make companies mitigate for adverse impacts in their supply chain. For instance when garment industries use companies in Bangladesh with labour rights issues. The articles they are referring to state:
      “The responsibility to respect human rights requires that business enterprises:
      (a) Avoid causing or contributing to adverse human rights impacts through their own activities, and address such impacts when they occur;
      (b) Seek to prevent or mitigate adverse human rights impacts that are directly linked to their operations, products or services by their business relationships, even if they have not contributed to those impacts”

      What do they want the UN to do!? How do they think Aston Martin or Red Bull should ‘mitigate’ these ‘adverse impacts’? Ask Aston Martin to give a hug to those poor people who were offended?
      It’s ridiculous. With so much wrong going on in the world, maybe the UN has something better to do than to give a slap on the wrist of a racing driver.

      1. It is no longer a term that should be used in civilized society and if someone insists on doing so to the world via media then they should be happy to accept the consequences. What’s ridiculous is people saying that a term which is clearly offensive to people from a particular country is somehow not offensive or serious.

        1. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending his use of language. I agree that it’s a term that shouldn’t be used anymore.
          And of course it is stupid to say something that might be seen as controversial. It just wasn’t used by him as a racist term.

          Also, he doesn’t “insists on doing so to the world via media”, he yelled it in his car in the heat of the moment when he almost crashed into Stroll. Haven’t you ever shouted something you wouldn’t repeat afterwards?
          To ask the UN to support their complaint is just blowing this completely out of proportion.

          1. In answer to your question, I have never shouted a swear word while at work in anger or frustration because that would be unprofessional in my work. That was a lesson I was taught very early on in my life about how you should conduct yourself and the message that conveys.

            He has a job that means he is in full sight of the world when at work, maybe he should be a little more careful in what he says and does. It wasn’t so long ago he got away with effectively assaulting another driver. Sure it was something and nothing but ultimately by the letter of the law it could have been construed as assault.

            Is asking for UN intervention a bit much, possibly so but that is likely the only escalation point for the ambassador after Red Bull and Verstappen have dismissed him. I doubt they will be able to sanction Verstappen much but Formula 1 may receive some heat for this and as a consequence Red Bull and then Verstappen.

            1. I bet you thought of such language when at work about someone. Just because you didn’t say it out loud doesn’t make you any better. We race as one. What a joke when they are going to Abu Dhabi…

      2. Imagine being this angry about a group of people being upsrt about being subject to a racist and ableist term. If this makes you a very, i can’t imagine how angry you’d be over that treatment. You could have shortened your diatribe to “I’m fine with racists and am racist myself” and gotten the point across just as easily in fewer words.

      3. Imagine being this angry about a group of people being upsrt about being subject to a racist and ableist term. If this makes you that furious, i can’t imagine how angry you’d be over that treatment. You could have shortened your diatribe to “I’m fine with racists and am racist myself” and gotten the point across just as easily in fewer words.

        1. Wow, I have bever been called a racist before and I certainly didn’t mean to come across as one. Like I said, I really don’t agree with the language he was using.
          The reason I’m annoyed is because of the way this is being compared to human rights abuses of companies. If we are going to accuse Red Bull of human rights abuses just because a sportsman sometimes doesn’t choose his words carefully, we might be loosing track of what is really needed in making companies more socially responsible.

          I’m sure Red Bull (and other companies related tot F1 for that matter) are doing a lot worse things that we might want to focus on.

      4. @stijner The insult you used as the comparison is forbidden from being broadcast on British TV – even after the watershed. Both words, had they been shown on British TV rather than just the F1TV online channel (which broadcasts radio live and therefore cannot use a swear filter like the world feed does), would have netted the broadcaster fines and possibly further action from OFCOM. Technically, if F1TV had been available in the UK, it would have been subject to the same rules (since OFCOM became able to police such content since last Sunday) since racist and disablist slurs qualify as “relevant harmful material” in OFCOM’s jurisdiction.

        Both insults are considered serious business and could result in Liberty being banned from broadcasting live radio. Max needs to amend his language or be liable for the loss of income that would result from that facility’s withdrawal.

    10. Of all the things happening in the world at the moment… Bernie would be happy. The classic “any publicity is good publicity”.

    11. Yes, I’m sure the UN has nothing better to do… What a joke

    12. Was it repeatedly?

      1. If he used it every time Stroll F#$%’s up it would have been.

        But it was a stupid action in the heat of the moment..

        1. A repeat “offence” though. Max has been reprimanded for this before.

          1. No he was not. You referred to the insult of a steward. Not the used language.

    13. When you use Mongol in the Dutch language, you refer to someone with the Down syndrome (Trisomy 21) and not to an inhabitant of Mongolia. It is a demeaning Dutch curse word.

    14. Is it that bad to be compared with Lance Stroll?

      1. Best one liner this year good one Bart.

    15. Call me crazy but I side with the Mongolian gov here. Emotional outburst is no excuse. People do a lot worse with emotional outbursts and Max has had issues with emotional outbursts in the past.

      Max is assigning a negative connotation to the name of a race. That is racist. Plain and simple. Emotional outburst is just no excuse for that behaviour as the vocabulary is obviouly there.

      There’s just no place for that in the world any more. In any context, or for any reason.

      1. Agreed completely.

        He should have just apologised properly, explained that he didn’t understand the gravity of the phrase, and moved on…

        1. Davethechicken
          3rd November 2020, 18:24

          MJA
          Except it would be difficult for him to claim he didn’t know it to be racist after what happened in 2017.

      2. Agreed. This is also a good way to raise awareness to those who continue to use the word casually, so fair play.

      3. So you have NEVER said or even thought of a derogatory term about someone. Even if they cut you up whilst driving? Just because you don’t say it for others to hear, you thinking it doesn’t make you any better. Research into the Mongolian government… hardly saints. Far worse is said on a football field.

    16. The media anxiously trying to hold on to a non story. Pathetic.

    17. Well, then F1 also responsible to send out the message. Normally they would bleep cursing in the radio message…

      1. @ruben On the world feed they do, not on F1 TV.

      2. Bleep bleep bleep angry team radio.

      3. @ruben The questions is, why must he say such things on the radio?

        1. I suspect heat of the moment + second time Lance is somewhat in the way (silverstone 2020).

      4. @ruben F1TV radio is live, therefore not bleepable.

    18. Just in case my other comment gets stuck in the modqueue, I agree with the Mongolian government. Everyone is equal, and no one should have the name of their people be used as an insult.

      1. Agree with this comment too.

      2. “Everyone is equal”
        Context is everything.
        An trained athlete is not equal to a desk jockey.
        A PhD graduate is not equal to a high school dropout.
        A Billionaire is not equal to a wage slave
        and so on.
        One lesson the world teaches very early is that “Everyone is very much not equal”
        It is a nice phrase to use when virtue signalling, however real life doesn’t care.

        1. Says: ‘Context is everything’
          Then: provides a list of a bunch of meaningless comparisons entirely out of context.

          1. I assume English is not your first language if you don’t understand the meaning of context

            1. You assume incorrectly

      3. @skipgamer

        no one should have the name of their people be used as an insult.

        Don’t be such a Tristan. ;)

    19. Lol what has Mongolia to do with this?

    20. Can’t use the F word on radio or TV media but when the Black Lives Matter issue was going on in America the use of the F word was so common it became common common. Seems like it’s wrong and not accepted while at the same normal and common as written words of the moment.
      So who decides who makes the decision?
      It’s like hearing your mom use it just about knocks the wind out of you but to hear crazed protestors shout out the F word while seeking the green light on destroying stuff. It’s accepted at times for different reasons. Maybe like racism Swear Words should just be accepted as is, ask any grade school kid

      1. Nah, that’s a bit much.

        1. Your right John H, it’s F ing to much

      2. How you managed to make this about BLM and also make absolutely zero sense is genuinely impressive

    21. Lewisham Milton
      3rd November 2020, 11:08

      Oh dear.
      What action can the UN take. A grid penalty? Make him drive a white Land Cruiser (which will put him somewhere among Vettel and Magnussen)?

      1. They can enforce an embargo, preventing the nation of Max Verstappen from importing stroopwafels into his mouth.

        1. Good idea Maybe we can complain with the Dutch goverment of the wrong use of Dutch word in Mongolia. Just close the money to that country lets see how fast they changing their story!

      2. They can censure Max’s behaviour, which I suspect is what Mongolia is looking for.

    22. I can understand why the Mongolian ambassador is furious. I would be as well if someone said Lance was a part of my community.

    23. Let it go. Verstappen made a mistake like Lewis did a few years back when he mocked a young boy that wanted to wear a dress.

      1. Err, you may want to rethink that. He was castigated by just about every F1 forum (Never knew the average fan was so sensitive), and it made the national news. As I expect he would if he ever uses the same word as Max did.

        1. But was the UN involved in it..
          And do you really think VER is not castigated or made (inter) national news.. then get out of your bubble..

      2. @darrenmoore and the crucial detail of that story – when Lewis realised what he did was offensive he came out and apologised for his mistake. Max now has to do the same and the matter will be put to rest.

      3. And Lewis made a public apology didn’t he?

    24. F1 has to take this seriously, they can’t be saying they are promoting diversity and the BLM campaign (which is very just and I think absolutely the right thing to the do) and not take action when racist terms are used.

      Hopefully this can be resolved with a genuine apology from Max, maybe some penalty points on his license for unacceptable behaviour.

      The truth is that a different racial slur could end a racer’s career. I love Max, he’s a joy to watch in a race and hopefully has a long and exciting future in F1, but he needs to take responsibility, show contrition and never repeat it.

      1. I’m a Hamilton fan but I hope Max gets zero punishment for this.

      2. Its not really a racist term, its an ableist issue. He used the term as a denigration on Strolls mental ability, not on his racial appearance. In fact, until 3 weeks ago i was under the impression it was still an acceptable demonym for someone from Mongolia, if used in that context, alongside Mongolian.

      3. Its not a racial slur, its an ableist one

        1. It’s both simultaneously. An ethnic slur, the term derived from evolutionary racial theory when people from Mongolia were deemed atavistic, and an ableist slur, which really doesn’t sit well with a high-achieving sportsperson like Max. It comes across as unmitigated arrogance and contempt.

          1. Yep, i guess when he used this term all those connotations came to mind…

            1. Davethechicken
              3rd November 2020, 20:47

              Erijke. You really believe he didn’t know the racial and abilist connotations?
              If you think he did,(which I am sure you do from your other posts re 2017 steward comments) then surely his “not my problem” attitude in the paddock is rather revealing?

      4. Barry Bens (@barryfromdownunder)
        3rd November 2020, 12:24

        They don’t promote the BLM campaign and rightfully so. They support equality for everyone. Big difference there.

        1. Big difference with the same outcome. If he used another word for another ethnic group he would be severely sanctioned and possibly banned. If you are promoting diversity then you can’t turn a blind eye because it’s not the ‘fashionable minority’ being insulted

      5. FOM and the FIA need to stop racing in Bahrain and Russia and had Petrov as a steward after his anti gay statement and race in. If they want to penalize Ver that need to drop those races and the huge amount of money they bring in.

    25. Britain 2019, Karma for Austria…never forget.

    26. The human rights record for Mongolia leaves alot to be desired. i put something up earlier but it has been modded for some reason.

      1. Because it’s not in any way relevent.

        Just because Saudi Arabia has a questionable human rights record does not vindicate the use of racist language against Saudis or against Arabs. Same applies here.

        1. I think it’s pretty relevant that leftists care so much about this and yet so little about far worse things.

          1. You think swearing is worse than human rights.. Interesting..

            1. That’s the opposite of what I said.

    27. It is very easy for Redbull and Verstappen to put this to rest. Just get the PR team to draft a statement for Max to deliver – a video message or something would be better but even an open letter or tweet or whatever would probably do the trick. Let’s be honest, Max doesn’t even have to realise he did something wrong or understand why people are offended, he just needs to issue the statement saying he does and that he apologises unequivocally. Perhaps there would be a fine to pay or something, but I don’t see any life changing consequences coming from this if he just addresses the issue.

      The problem isn’t primarily that he blurted out racist and derogatory terms when emotions were high. While that is regrettable and shouldn’t happen, it is somewhat understandable in the heat of the moment. The problem is his failure to address it, apologise, and commit to not using those terms in the future.

      1. Correct, which is why it’s so mind-boggling why Red Bull hasn’t done it yet. If he apologizes it becomes a non-issue.

        1. Because he isn’t going to do that for the wrong idea they had! He was talking about Lance mental state!

          1. You need to look up the origin of the term in order to understand why it is offensive.

    28. It would be interesting to hear how he is being advised since surely someone in his camp should be telling him how his words are being interpreted.

      Part of me fears that if he doesn’t apologise quickly he is going down the ‘free-speech martyr’ route and that would get messy.

      Worst still is when other drivers get dragged into this and they are then called out for supporting BLM but not other types of non-inclusivity. This puts them in a difficult position resulting in them being accused of ‘selective outrage’.

    29. Hans (@hanswesterbeek)
      3rd November 2020, 12:14

      I am not at all trying to justify Max’s behavior, but as a fellow speaker of Dutch I notice that some context of the word Mongol in our language is missing here.

      In Dutch profanities, mongol is used to refer to people with Down’s Syndrome, not (direclty) to refer to people from Mongolia. There is a connection there, anyway, but when one calls another a ‘mongool’ (in Dutch) it is done to express the idea that the other has a lower-than-average level of intelligence.

      Again, I do not think that one should ever be called a ‘mongool’, irrespective of its precise meaning. But what this context adds, for me at least, is a little bit of understanding that the expression is not a clear cut case of racism of offense to the people of Mongolia. It is very offensive, but more in relation to people with Down’s Syndrome.

      Hence, if Max is or was not aware of the racial aspects of his remarks, I can see why.

      1. Davethechicken
        3rd November 2020, 13:30

        That would make sense except…
        Max was punished by the FIA in 2017 for using the same term.
        Are you arguing that he wasn’t able to understand the reasoning of punishment and therefore repeated the same mistake?
        Now wouldn’t that be ironic.

        1. Hans (@hanswesterbeek)
          3rd November 2020, 15:16

          I am not trying to argue, I just wanted to add it to the discussion! Let it be clear, I think Max’s words are terrible and he should apologise and take in all the criticism.

        2. Max was punished by the FIA in 2017 for using the same term.

          not for using the “term” but for insulting a steward. Small but meaningful difference.

      2. That is also true for the UK. In profanity terms, it is very rarely heard now but was common in my youth – and that was before Down’s Syndrome was commonly known as such. Another common slur was ‘spastic’ which has also, mercifully, disappeared from speech, for similar reasons.

      3. @hanswesterbeek as @anon explained on this site a couple of days ago, use of the term for the ethnicity/country to describe people with trisomy 21 (Down syndrome) was introduced by John Langdon Down himself in 1866 with the theory that people with Down’s were ‘regressing’ in evolutionary terms to the lower civilizational-intellectual levels of ‘other ethnic types.’ So there’s no way to separate the two issues. The term was common in the UK too, including as a playground insult (no idea if it still is). It’s objectionable in multiple ways. Verstappen has now apologized for its use and says he’ll learn. I think the problem here is probably more with Red Bull management’s mishandling of the issue. They need to have proactive response (as Mercedes have shown in relation to BLM this year) rather than ‘yeah, we’re sorry and all that. Can we now talk about something else?’

        1. Hans (@hanswesterbeek)
          3rd November 2020, 15:16

          Thank you for clearing this up, I did not know.

      4. The origin of the word in Dutch is still offensive to people from Mongolia so that doesn’t cut the mustard.

        1. Hans (@hanswesterbeek)
          3rd November 2020, 15:19

          Agreed!
          I am sorry if my post could be interpreted as an attempt to cut any mustard.

          1. Me using an English turn of phrase was probably not the best idea in communicating to you I concede :-D

    30. Well, had he used the n*word instead, nobody here would be dismissing it, would they? And the apologies from both team and driver would be swift and extensive.

      1. Agreed. There is a massive double standard here that the FIA is refusing to address.

      2. Plus, we certainly would have heard something from Lewis Hamilton…

    31. I’m not sure Horner is the right person to be offering an apology or heaven forbid Marko. Max Verstappen needs to come out and unequivocally apologise and except responsibility for his unfortunate outburst. Liberty need to start checking the radio comms before they let them out. Money is tight and sponsors can pick and choose where they spend it.

    32. This got easy solution. Red Bull, just donate a generous amount of money to some “””non-profit organization””” backed by that government and this will be magically forgotten… :)

    33. I hear the people of Sod are sharpening their pencils as we speak!

    34. Years ago Max had some problem with Massa on the track and later on in the interview justified the incident somehow by sayin something like “well, he’s Brazilian”. Felipe, as I recall, went to talk to him and cleared things up, but warned him not to talk like that ’cause he’d eventually come and drive in Brazil. No one made such a fuss back then, but it’s the same pattern. I think Max is a nice kid, but outbursts like that are a testemony to how he was raised. Old Jos must have dumped all his frustrations on him.

    35. Nell (@imabouttogoham)
      3rd November 2020, 12:26

      I thought this was a non-issue, initially. But in light of all of these FIA “initiatives” I would expect more hand-wringing.

      Though to be frank I think Max was being more “ableist” than racist. I’d wheel out the “he’s a young man excuse”, but he’s a young man who earns a lot of money and is very popular and inevitably that public scrutiny comes with expectations of being a role model. Doesn’t he have a PR team who can trot out a statement on his social media feeds? This doesn’t need to grow any bigger than what it already is.

    36. Barry Bens (@barryfromdownunder)
      3rd November 2020, 12:28

      He did say he didn’t mean to offend anyone and should’ve used other wording instead. That’s enough of a ‘sorry’ for anyone, but the receiving party chooses not to accept it. Who’s problem is that? Surely not Max’

      It’s so sad to see stuff like this being created out of something that could’ve been dealt with so much better. Compare it to that ‘At least we’re not Detroit’-video made about Cleveland years ago. Did Cleveland make a fuss about that? No. They made a competition to make a video that shows it really isn’t _that_ bad. Mongolia could’ve easily done the same by saying ‘ Yeah nah we don’t want Lance Stroll as a national either, guy can’t drive at all’.

      1. He did say he didn’t mean to offend anyone and should’ve used other wording instead. That’s enough of a ‘sorry’ for anyone, but the receiving party chooses not to accept it. Who’s problem is that? Surely not Max’

        @barryfromdownunder – totally agree. So many people out there desperate to be offended and make people grovel to them, its frankly ridiculous. We see them in all walks of life, and politicians are obviously no different – wonder if this government official is up for re-election?

    37. As much as I feel that certain words can cause hurt, I also feel that the Mongols need to clean up their rampant civil rights abuses before they claim the moral high ground. Racial and economic inequality, lack of justice, due process, police abuse and corruption are rampant in Mongolia.

      1. Like the US you mean?

        Come on, it’s not relevent to Max’s actions.

    38. Redbull won’t make much of a fuss as they don’t want to rub their man up the wrong way.

      F1 won’t do much as it’ll open up a can of worms in regards to other intellectually disparaging out-of-date medical terms like it’s stablemate “idiot”, rendering their radio highlights vids anodyne affairs.

    39. (Roughly:) Red Bull earnings 2019 6 billlion euros, GDP Mon**lia 13 billion (precensored to get past RaceFans filtering, which unfortunately takes ages..!)

      Verstappen is pretty much the lead brand figure for Red Bull, a company with half the economic size as the country he insulted. That’s maybe why the country’s ambassador feels the need for this to be addressed at a higher instance. I kind of agree. Red Bull enable this behaviour and express a toxic environment in general. Horner’s downplaying of Verstappen’s assault on Ocon being a prime example. They don’t take anything really very seriously and – setting aside the macho posturing from team boss to driver – seem more concerned about appeasing Max’s every whim to ensure he doesn’t leave (understandable with the poor quality of car they’re delivering relative to Mercedes).

      Just get it sorted Red Bull.

    40. Milk milk. I thought this was a F1 related blog, not a silly tabloid.

      1. It concerns an incident that occurred at a Grand Prix weekend, by a F1 driver. How much more F1 related can it be?

    41. Thanks RaceFans for publishing the article. It does not make it less offensive just because Mongolia is not as high profile a country as those known to readers of RaceFans or followers of F1. The word is often insultingly used to refer to people who suffer from down syndrome and people who are perceived as mentally slow. It is a derogatory term, such an outdated word that reveals ignorance of the matters. The fact that it is used by someone so young gives a level of insight into Verstappen. The fans in this forum tend towards either take it lightly, mock Mongolia’s protestation or defend Verstappen. If Red Bull & Verstappen are serious about “everyone deserves to be treated equally”, then this issue can be resolved by being diplomatic instead of ignoring a sovereign country’s request for an apology. Mongolia is a developing country and every country, no matter how small, has their own dignity and pride to defend.

      To RaceFans moderator – surely no need to ban this posting from being published?

      1. But idiot and moron are ok right? The hypocricy..

        1. Jose Lopes da Silva
          3rd November 2020, 17:10

          This is an interesting point. Where do you find hipocrisy?

            1. Jose Lopes da Silva
              4th November 2020, 14:00

              IDK. If you call someone an idiot, a moron, a mongoloid and a mongol, I believe people with Down syndrome and Mongolians might feel offended. Although it’s not clear why the Mongolians are offended. Are they offended because someone compared them to people with Down syndrome? That’s offensive for people with Down syndrome.

              But are idiots and morons supposed to come out and say they are offended?

              The best way is to assume the insult and to turn it upside down like queer have done. Anyway, Verstappen could have quickly solved the issue with an apology – just call Stroll an incompetent oblivious team owner, not a mongol. Alonso called him amateur and it was fine, amateurs did not get offended.

    42. Is Max going to recieve a “booting” from the president of Mongolia like Bart Simpson?

      1. @xenomorph91 I see what you did there. “Bart vs. Australia” Season 6, Episode 16.

    43. I love it. Max’s first scandal?
      Should have know better. I am just learning he did it twice too! Careless.

    44. Has anyone else noticed that Red Bull’s car and Mongolian flag sport the exact same colour combination? Maybe they could do some kind of collab to make up for it.

      1. Then take the “Mongol” out of “Mongolia”. Self-slurring.

        1. to redbulia or mongbulia….?

    45. Well that escalated quickly.

      Why not call on NATO to bomb the RedBull F1 team? Oh, and nuke the Netherlands while they’re at it.

      Talk about overreacting… Sheeesh

      1. nuke the south then, so I can survive
        but totally agree

    46. Radio should be only broadcasted with delay with many reasons. One is filtering such things, other is probably allowing more strategy without instantly giveing away info to competitors, and it would be amazing not to hear about problems instantly. Even with filtering they could deal punishments for improper acts. In case of Verstappen I would give a small money fine (wealth-wise, so not one what is not a small for an average people) and/or some community service again. A bit more severe punishment should be applied as it’s not the first case. Also I understand that the term he used is maybe not primarily racist in his language, but instead more of a derogatory term to “challenged” people. Not much better, still hurts a minority. I like his skills, I consider him one of today’s best and I want to see his success to some extent and increasing the level of the competition, but I definitely not liked this and law is present and law is present to be be applied. This, and many other problems of F1 originates from human nature.

      1. Hans (@hanswesterbeek)
        3rd November 2020, 15:17

        When did F1 stop delaying radio? I thought it was the standard back in the days when I started watching F1 (1999).

        1. I think it’s still delayed. I don’t know exactly how much. But it could be more strategy-wise.

    47. All that is required is a simple apology from Verstappen and an acknowledgement that he misunderstood the origin of the offence and contrition to not use it in future. This is a chance to let people know that the use of the word is both highly offensive and inappropriate so why would the Mongolian ambassador not consider this worthwhile pushing further with given the impact of the word on his country and people.

    48. Maybe the UN could also take action against the idiot President we’ve had in the US the past four years. The good thing is he’ll be on his way out as of today.

      1. Here’s hoping so at least. And good luck.

    49. #WeRaceAsOneUnlessItsInconvenient

      1. Exactly. The fact that this has been allowed to reach this point without any official reaction, puts big shadow over the WeRaceAsOne message, as well as F1’s End Racism drive, and Hamilton’s own personal agenda.

    50. What are the repercussions in regards to the upcoming Ulaanbataar tilkedrome round?

    51. W.m. Bravenboer
      3rd November 2020, 15:17

      I admit that Max could have used other words, people forget that english is not his first language, so he went with some hard dutch terms, southern ones too, in the north we are more into diseases. But I still think the broadcaster has the responsibility for these outbursts, compared with football, Max is a saint. Red Bull has no doubt discussed this with Max, but to make this into a UN case…
      We should probably send the movies New Kids Turbo and New Kids Nitro to the ambassador, he would surely love those….

      1. Your comment is awaiting moderation

        Haha.. great idea

      2. We should probably send the movies New Kids Turbo and New Kids Nitro to the ambassador, he would surely love those….

        Haha great idea

        1. Have to wonder if Stroll senior is the shadows somewhere?

    52. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
      3rd November 2020, 15:37

      This is hilarious. Made my day.

    53. The blown tire denying him 2nd place is enough punishment

    54. I wonder if the Hamilton fanatic that wrote to the Mongolian embassy was one of ours. Anyone fess up?

    55. No, Mongolian government no less

    56. Max should just swallow his pride, apologize and be done with it. This issue can escalate into something much larger and serious. Both RBR and the FIA cant afford to be embroiled in this mess

      1. Sorry mate, but I would never give in to these so called morally superior humans and I’m sure RBR and the FIA won’t either.

    57. At the end of the day, Max doesn’t get to decide what is offensive to others or not. They get to decide for themselves what offends them. Once it was made clear to him how offensive the terms are Max had two options. He could say he was not aware of the offensiveness of the terms but now that he has been educated, he apologizes and will use his platform to promote increased understanding. Or he could say he isn’t concerned with the offense he has caused with the derogatory terms he used and not offer an apology. Every situation will be unique, but whatever option they take tells me something about the person. It appears at this point as if Max has taken the latter. While he has said he didn’t mean to offend anyone, he clearly did. He may not have known how offensive the term is but now that he does he can either apologize or not. That he, and by association Red Bull, have not clearly apologized for using a term that is so offensive to an already highly discriminated against group (those with Downs) shows just how immature and selfish they really are.

      1. You cant avoid people being offended. Turn it around, people dont have to take offense either..

      2. he has said he didn’t mean to offend anyone

        I disagree, Max clearly meant to offend Lance Stroll. Not people with the Down syndrome. Not the Mongolians. Just Lance Stroll. And if he owes an apology, it is to Lance Stroll only.
        Of course,all sorts of people have the right to feel offended. And Max has the right to ignore it.

    58. Jose Lopes da Silva
      3rd November 2020, 17:07

      Getting 159 comments is quite impressive. If the visits correspond, it sadly means that the better way to monetise a site about [something] is to tal about politics, polemics and things other than [something].
      Discrimination is about insulting people, not ideas. Verstappen insulted lots of people by saying they are like Stroll. Just issue an apology.

      1. Especially as the comment counter reached this amount fairly quickly. As usually scandals, and tabloid content are selling well basically everywhere. That’s something to take into consideration if one starts a business. One of my fellow countrymen became a top10 billionaire (country ranking) in a few years by running launching esoteric themed sites. I left reading motorsport sites of my own country when I came here at about 2 years before. The background story is, that the highest ranked F1 site in my native language hired a writer who was so negative about everything, that after some weeks I recognised his articles by title literally in an eyeblink. Hell, I’m quite negative, and enjoy black humour and sarcasm, but they had at about 10 regular writers, still looking at his those articles regularly ruined my day :) So I had fun there for a while, I played whether I’m recoginzing the writer by the title so quickly for a month, then I got fed up with that. And then I the idea came, that why don’t I look for some better sites in English, because it would be so easy to find some. I guess I found this site in 10 minutes, and it was a nice quality swap. Then of course later I got familiar with some others from the Round-up as well. I find it quite nice and fair to link some other quality sites, while my adventures in this dimension made quite clear to me that many of my native sites are not doing so much more than plain translations (hopefully based on some contract, license or permission, but who knows :) ).

        A few days before I have seen an interesting tendency at another article here with high amount of comments. The tendency was, that basically no one responded to the other, but basically everyone wrote standalone posts. It would be an interesting research topic to measure the ratio of “people trying to respond” / “trying to go individual” (thread length etc.), and how that tendency changed over times at comment sections and Q&A sites, etc. and draw some consequences of the stats of course.

        1. Jose Lopes da Silva
          4th November 2020, 9:48

          “hopefully based on some contract, license or permission, but who knows :)”
          I don’t know your country, but I know very well that translation phenomenon. Yes, hopefully :-D

          “running launching esoteric themed sites.” sigh… but true, it’s what people get and want to eat.

          20 years ago I bought a weekly motorsport newspaper which got everything: facts, the relevant stories and some other stories to entertain, just to add some pages. I remember quite well that in the week prior to the 1997 European GP, the Autosport from Portugal speculated on how could the other 20 drivers influence the duel between Schumacher and Villeneuve. Obviously Irvine was at the forefront, after helping Schumacher to win in Japan in a quite visible way (actually, never happened something like that before since Fangio teammates gave them their car. And after that, only the payback of Schumacher in Malaysia 1999). But Frentzen was mentioned too. IIRC, they pretty much predicted what would happen with Norberto Fontana in the race. But they were able to create a peace of prediction to every driver. Apart from Irvine, Frentzen and Montana, it was a bit odd. Why would Berger complicate Villeneuve’s task given that he, Berger, strongly disliked Frentzen? (!?!)

          Anyway, the newspaper created some curious stories but there was never plain sensationalism. Most online press today is rubbish. That’s why I believe we must contribute and pay for quality. Yes, it get’s tiresome after getting years and years of trash. I pretty much quit Facebook and social media today, it’s awful. But I have to wonder if Liberty doesn’t choose on purpose to generate buzz with things like this. For the business has to be great that Verstappen insults nations, that’s for sure.

          Your last paragraph seems a great suggestion to @keithcollantine and the team, I wonder if you’re a professional ;-)

          1. I’m from Hungary, the society is quite closed here, so the situation is not really good here in the fields of racism and discrimination. As Hungary’s society is quite monolithic although these problems are quite masked, because the average citizen meets a bit less diversity in everyday life, although it’s far from the best places to live as a minority. I will not write more about it as it’s a sports site.

            I agree there are many low quality online news sites. The F1 site with that toxic writer from my previous post is the online version of one of our top paper based motorsport magazines, which I read happily 15-25 years before (so something similar at national level to the weekly magazine what you mentioned). But when I recognised that the online version is related to them, that was quite disappointing, their online press is just far from the
            quality from the previous decades.

            I remember that 1997 title battle involving Schumacher and Villeneuve, and I also remember this analysis, and that the other drivers were quite much categorised as “Schumacher supporters” and “Villeneuve supporters” before the final battle. I have found it quite interesting too. Sadly somehow I had not seen the race in live, and the clash between the two. Schumacher’s action was so unbelievable, when I have heard it from my friends at first I expected that they are playing a prank on me, because I was a Schumacher fan.

            Although paper based press has a lot of difficulties nowadays, like slowness, and the hard competition from the
            “free” internet and they are declining almost everywhere. And smaller sites and start ups have a hard time to
            show up on the internet in this search engine optimized era. SEO stands for search engine optimization, its basically done by observing trends, adapting and experimenting. I think RaceFans did quite well in this field.
            One of the best SEO practices is to be honest, provide true content, and good service, these are still the most important factors and are not replaceable in the long run, not even when it comes to “hacking SEO” (it’s not black hat hacking, basically everyone tries to optimize his site). As I know this a site is based on WordPresss, and WordPress has a quite nice native and basic SEO support by default. So I’m not surprised that I have found the site in some minutes (because it’s worthy and exists for a long while now). Pro SEO tools are pricy, and often not affordable for a startup or an indie. Full fledged SEO tools (for everyday use) are most often only affordable for specialists who optimize websites in this aspect. Although of course it can be done with applying common sense and providing good content.
            From search engine companies it would be more honest to allow much less fiddling with it, and provide a natural ranking, with the ranking algorithm’s details very well hidden from anyone. Although they are the providers of the tools as well so…
            But how to do it, the lawyers would come from the negatively affected companies :)

            About the last paragraph:
            I think this kind of statistic probably could be used to measure the effectiveness of Q&A sites (but it’s just a
            variable, and probably there are some who are already using it), or to observe internet behavior tendencies even
            at larger scales (multiple sites, or even at national or world level). I’m not really trying to sell anything, I’m just enjoying to contrive things. I have a lof of fields in which I’m interested in but sadly I’m quite scattered amongst those instead of being pro. Probably the world have already defeated me :)

            1. Hmm, thre are some fine line breaks, that’s why one should not type into a Notepad-like stuff, and than copy-paste it.

            2. Hm sadly I wrote about the society in the first paragraph, but as it was about the country, and the article is somewhat about discrimination I managed to do this. But I expect the same about piracy as well, loving one’s own country is a nice thing, but Hungary is something in between the first world and second world countries, and that’s reflected in the attitude to copyright and human rights as well. But of course basically every country has things to do in these fields, and it seems like there is more and more problems everywhere.

            3. Jose Lopes da Silva
              5th November 2020, 11:09

              “I remember that 1997 title battle involving Schumacher and Villeneuve, and I also remember this analysis,”

              I though it was a Portugal’s Autosport exclusive odd idea back then! I wonder how did the Portuguese and Hungarian motorsport specialized press guys got the same idea… ;-) !!

              No one is reading us now, so I’ll add just a few lines. I think the West (Europe and Americas) is in the middle of a cultural civil war that crosses each country. The way the economy, society, ideas and lifestyles have evolved are creating a similar division that crosses most of countries in Europe and Americas. For your writing, I can say you don’t vote for Mr Orbán. For some reason the Visograd capital’s mayors are currently from a different party from their countries governments. For the same reason London voted massively against Brexit. Even non-Western countries share this divide; Turkey as a one-century-old strong urban-based secularist tradition that didn’t vanished just because it’s not on power. Although I’m on one side of this division, I think the division itself is terrible for the West and I don’t know how it is going to end. In Portugal the division is not visible abroad yet, but exists too. “Let’s see what happens”, like Mr Trump uses to say.

            4. Good read, basically it’s almost impossible to me to vote for them. I could write what I think of them, but it’s not for a sports site. In short they are not fair, and practice discrimination based on attributes which they also have.
              Therefore I find them unfit for managing the challenges the world can show them. But as natural processes are often self-regulating, society and business life can bounce back from many things, and react to many phenomenons without governmental interaction.

              I don’t like social media too much, just like you don’t I think it’s an other area where society will regulate itself based on consequences in the future maybe it would do so without too much interaction. Many just will discover that it’s not that good and fair for them. But that’s quite commonsense basically almost every phenomenon is periodical (or at least can be approximated with periodical functions) in the universe. I have seen a very interesting albeit quite theoretical show on NatGeo as I remember where they got to the conclusion that probably even the universe is dieing and reborning periodically (and the small perturbations to the starting parameters can lead to entirely different rules of physics if there are multiple universes in existence). Let’s imagine then where the youngsters are racing those boring F1 cars, just to finally get an offer from a team, and get into one of those wonderful Formula Juniors without any aero devices. I guess Kimi would be the most talkative person there :)

            5. I forgot about the magazine, I think at about 2 decades before, as they were mostly paper based, and as they were something like a top level national magazine, I guess straight up plagiarism was not acceptable for them, so by that time I guess significant magazines wrote their articled based on some licensed materials and with some own content as well.

              I have heard about the Schumacher-Villeneuve factions at TV as I remember, but I have found it interesting. Now it’s quite cool to watch F1 in Hungarian, because Michelisz, and Wéber and some of their younger racer fellows are the commentators, and most often at least one of them is present, they are quite relevant compared to the relatively low motorsport opportunities here. Interestingly all of them have a quite successful sim racing career as well. Some find them a bit boring, probably because they are not the showman type, but they make up for it with the understanding, to me they are much better than the former commentators.

              Anyway, have a nice weekend :)

    59. I am was born in Brazil from a Japanese family and I live in USA now. The other day I was having my lunchtime walk with two coworkers, being one of them Brazilian. That Brazilian called me “J a p s”. OMG.
      Another guy who walks with us is a black dude. He got triggered. He started arguing saying that language should not be used. I need to intervene and say that is not a big deal. He continued and said that it was the same as the n-word. I’ve told him, to stop to make a big deal bout that, including the n-word. Making a taboo out of it, make is offensive, and that’s the problem that causes division. Own it,as I did. I am a “J A P”

      1. Mauro – in UK motorsports circles there was a time when ‘JAP’ would bring to mind ‘JA Prestwich Industries’ – producer of engines which, amongst other uses, saw extensive use in Formula 3 racing in John Cooper’s cars.

      2. Would you feel the same if JAP was analogized with stupid/primitive?

      3. J A P’s are cool!

      4. @mauromori It’s not just the term, it’s the context of the term. In a sense, you’re describing a ‘Brazilian microcosm’ made up of you and your Brazilian coworker where calling people by their (supposed) ethnic or regional origin is playful, potentially affectionate, but also – I’d argue – often functions as a kind of warning label, marking that person as different from the overall group. Other terms include, as you know, ‘negão’ and the like, which almost certainly would have caused an even stronger reaction in your ‘black dude’ pal. Racial politics in Brazil was always seen as different to the US. Japanese and European (especially Italian and German) migration were part of a deliberate policy of ‘whitening’ the country’s population through miscegenation under the Republic at the end of the 19th century. That ended up producing an official racial philosophy, widespread among the overall population even today, of mixed or blurred racial profiles but within a spectrum of undesirable – desirable, but typically marginalizing, excluding and sometimes (even still) killing Afro-Brazilian and indigenous people. So I feel like there are two sides to what you described.

    60. We are going to the UN for the fact that the English speaking part of the world uses the word Dutch in a negative way.

      1. Agreed, and while we are at it, why not outlaw all words in any language that have a potentially offensive connotation in any other known language. We could even broaden it to all negative words, just to be sure nobody gets upset. When something is bad, just call it ungood…
        To enforce this, I think we should lobby for some sort of international word-police. Reminds me of 2 things: 1984 (very serious) and The Dictator (Alladeen-positive & Alladeen-negative; very not serious) :-)

      2. Durch treat, oh my. Whoever uses such offensive and racist language should be drawn and quartered.

    61. Has the world gone mad? He said some offensive things to some people. Who cares?

      When will people learn that forcing people to apologise in situations like this doesn’t mean anything, and won’t get him to change his language behind closed doors. If there is such outrage about this god knows how these people would react actually working in an intense work environment where you hear a lot worse.

      It’s the same as when multinational corps virtue signal about LGBT or the environment. Think they actually care?

    62. As soon as the UN have achieved world peace, ended poverty, disease and oppression. Then they can turn their attention to a thoughtless insult made by one millionaire racing driver to another which might have offended some others who heard it, but was apoloised for, and didn’t result in a lawsuit, mob violence, or military intervention etc. Yet.

    63. McLaren 2-0 Red Bull: The beginning of the Red Bull manager’s bad results.
      Red Bull 1-2 Williams: Red Bull manager “will turn things around”…
      Ferrari 3-1 Red Bull: …which results in this.
      Red Bull 0-4 Sauber: Following this match, the Red Bull manager was sacked.

    64. To all those just laughing at this or hiding the fact it happened; Max could be in some trouble here.

      It’s bad for him and bad for the sport in a time when it’s really important to at least look like you’re not protecting users of racist language.

    65. Fast forward to next September…

      ” And it’s LIGHTS OUT and AWAY WE GO in the Ulan Bator Grand Prix! Lewis Hamilton with a strong getaway…”

    66. This is such a non event.
      It makes me wonder if there is in fact enough “safe spaces” In the world for all these precious little flowers to go and curl up in.
      Get over it.
      Stop polluting RaceFans with this kind of article.
      I’d rather see some interesting technical articles instead of this nonsense.
      Go visit an SJW site if you’re so “WoKe” and need to brag about how morally superior you are to the rest of the word.

      1. Fully agree. Get this garbage off our site. There are enough places for people to go to to get their snowbanks.

        1. Get this garbage off our site

          Pardon if I am missing any irony here, but this is a legitimate news report, written by the owner of the site. If anyone is in a position to decide what gets reported, and to claim the site as “ours”, it must be him.

          One may agree or disagree with the statements being reported on, but, come on…

      2. Jose Lopes da Silva
        4th November 2020, 9:52

        The thing is, you clicked on the article.
        If you don’t want to see this on Racefans, why do you click on it?

        You even commented. It has to be something important to you.

        1. Of course it’s important to me? Of course I clicked on the article. It’s not rocket science. I’m here to voice my opinion in the hope that there’s less articles like this in the future. It may be futile… but what else is one to do. Makes me feel better at least.

          1. Jose Lopes da Silva
            4th November 2020, 14:03

            It’s not futile. It’s counterproductive. You’re ensuring you’ll get more of this in the future.

      3. Says the drama queen who threw his toys out his cot three years ago over the halo and said she was leaving.

        1. I’m back because unfortunately there wasn’t a better alternative to F1 and I’ve come to accept Halo as a compromise. I’m happy to share my opinions on matters that I feel strongly about. Pretty sure that’s what the comment section is for. If calling me a drama queen ads some happiness to your life, then I’m happy to wear that title. Could even handle being called a M*ng or R**tard…because at the end of the day, they’re just words and my life is pretty damn good. I feel It’d be a whole lot better with less SJWs in the world…but all I can do is fight the good fight xx.

        2. You do know “drama queen” is quite insulting for a group of people.
          Acceptable?

      4. @drone RaceFans covers a full range of topics relating to F1. The fact you may not want to read every single article isn’t a reason to reduce the range. Seems pretty obvious to me. Shout at the wind if you want. A lot of people find it directly relevant, Formula 1 doesn’t operate in a social (or political, economic or cultural) vacuum. Verstappen picked on a group of people (with trisomy 21) who would presumably find it difficult to defend themselves publicly, which smacks then of bullying a vulnerable group with little chance of responding. Frankly, that’s cowardly too. The fact he also insulted an ethnicity at the same time just compounded it. His ‘I don’t really care’ response immediately after worsened it further. The ‘big deal’ being made of this, it seems to me, comes from those who can’t just say, yeah sorry, that was offensive, I won’t do it again. but, like you, want to insist it’s basically OK. You’re the ones sustaining the debate – and very deliberately. So it’s no surprise to find so many of you commenting on a thread saying ‘why are we debating this?’ Because you don’t want to let go of the privilege of being able to offend without cost.

    67. a very offensive word for a person who has Down’s syndrome
      it’s in the books, seriously we have the same meaning in France…
      Must be true no?

    68. Max is probably the most immature driver in F1. Trying to justify his outbursts by claiming “heat of the moment” only makes his behavior worse. In the “heat of the moment” is when you aren’t using your social filters and you’re stating what’s in your heart (if he has one). He’s F1’s biggest embarrassment.

      1. Is this “Kill Verstappen”?

    69. Max is still acting like a spoiled brat! Talented or not, sportsman should see the bigger picture…or read a book or two from time to time…”Short history of good manners” would be a good choice!

      1. Hey…are you a Verstappen traitor? I am.

    70. Max was referring to the character in Shrek 2…the big gingerbread man- slow and stupid. I don’t see how that is “racist”!

    71. Surely Mongolia should be more concerned about Max’s smart phone lust poisoning their lakes

      https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150402-the-worst-place-on-earth

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