Max Verstappen, Red Bull, Baku City Circuit, 2018

Stewards reprimand Verstappen and Ricciardo for crash

2018 Azerbaijan Grand Prix

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The stewards have issued reprimands to Max Verstappen and Daniel Ricciardo for their collision in the Azerbaijan Grand Prix.

The Red Bull drivers retired from the race following the collision but were cleared of blame by their team.

“The stewards heard from Daniel Ricciardo, the driver of car three, Max Verstappen, the driver of car 33 and the team representative,” the stewards noted.

“Both drivers contributed to the collision. The driver of car 33 made two moves, both of which were relatively minor.

“The driver of car three admitted he left his move to overtake on the left, too late. It was obvious to the stewards that although the incident had its origins in the moves by car 33, the driver of car three also contributed to the incident.

“Both drivers expressed regret about their respective contributions to the incident, during the stewards’ hearing.”

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner said both drivers would apologise to the team for the collision.

“As a policy we want to let our guys race,” he said. “We’ve let them race hard against each other. And unfortunately today has resulted in the worst possible scenario where you’ve had both drivers make contact and retire from the grand prix.

“There’s no blame apportioned more in one position than the other. They’re both equally responsible. What’s obviously annoying is we’ve given away an awfully large amount of points today so both the drivers will be apologising to all the members of staff who work so hard to put these cars together.”

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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195 comments on “Stewards reprimand Verstappen and Ricciardo for crash”

  1. No penalty points for either?

    In any case, since the incident affected only a single team, and was terminal for both of them, it’s fair enough to draw a line under this, from an FIA perspective.

    1. @phylyp

      I think Vercrashin’ needs a race ban.

      I feel sorry for anybody who has to race around him. He has hit Hamilton, Vettel, and Riccardo. All also are in contention for WDC.

      Riccardo had to crash into him. It is the only way to race him.

      What will it take? An injury? A crash every race?

      Race Ban

      1. Yes… bcs your oppinion based on what you saw in a split second on a tv is worth so much more than the opinion of the stewards, the team, the drivers etc, all of whom have much more information than you….

        Sometimes I wonder if people who make comments like this really don’t see how ridiculous statements like that sound?

        1. @melkurion

          Ridiculous? Yes, I admit calling him Vercrashin’ is ridiculing him.

          You meant I should be ridiculed for labeling his behavior as penalty worthy? Meh, people disagree with me. Doesn’t make me wrong.

          1. @slotopen You probably don’t even realize you didn’t actually respond to anything I said right? Just repeated your original statement…. If you want to be “right” or “wrong” you usually get to that point by weighing opinions, having a discussion etc. In other words you read what the other person says , and give a measured response. What you are doing is trying to deflect the content to the term “ridiculous” by making a quip, and probably thought you were very clever in doing so. Anywho, you are right of course that people disagreeing with you doesn’t make you wrong, of course by that simple logic it doesn’t actually make you right either. Now like I already asked, what makes you think your opinion is more ” right” than the opinion of the stewards? Do you perhaps have addition information they don’t, are you perchance the world’s leading authority on formula 1 crashes…? I would wager the answer is no. Now everybody is entitled to their opinion of course, but most people can back up their opinion with facts, maybe some examples, and most importantly are open to criticism concerning their opinion, and willing to change that opinion once facts and people more knowledgeable then they themselves show them what the ” truth” should be. Sadly most people just wanna spam their opinion and then duck and cover and feel good they voiced their own personal truth.

          2. @melkurion
            You resorted to personal attacks over a position which merely differed from yours.

            I’m not interested debating you.

          3. I’ll just leave this here…



        2. Penalty points are meant for wreckless driving and wreckless driving is driving that can cause an unnecessary collision that could cause an injury. Drivers opinions and intentions don’t matter if someone gets injured or killed.

        3. @melkurion – I enjoyed your measured, reasoned responses. Some people “drive angry” and don’t know how to listen. That’s not a reason to give up trying of course.

      2. To be fair Riccardo overtaking moves always force the other driver to avoid him and he counts on that. Once he commits, he can’t avoid the other car in case they take the racing line.
        In the other hand, it’s getting a bit too much from Max and Horner probably needs to have (another) word with him behind the doors.
        In a way sensible decision by the stewards, wouldn’t have been an injustice to hand some penalty points but was not needed either as both races were terminated by the incident and they are in the same team, they already paid the highest price on track.

      3. Ricciardo met Verstappen where Verstappen met Hamilton.

        At Bahrain Max performed a balsy move on the veteran Hamilton, Ham would not give up his position withou a fight , bot didn;t budge and crashed..Verstappen payed with damage,Hamilton was just lucky to escape.
        a 50/50 incdident.

        Baku was different though, Ricciardo came in at high speed, though many people feel different, moving twice is actually permitted. Verstappen left plent of room on the inside, but Ricciardo carried way to much speed, locking up and crashing. Strict rules say Ricciardo was at fault here, but as Verstappen was very much on the limit earlier that race making contact they must have felt a warning for both was at place.. which I feel is fair enough.

        Pointing at one driver while not knowing the rules is rather pointless.

        1. “though many people feel different, moving twice is actually permitted.”

          Is it really?

          1. Yes, but after the first move they are basically only allowed to return to the racing line while still leaving one lane.

        2. No he didn’t, Max moving for a second time (again) scrub all the downforce off Dan’s front wing. Also when they run wheels at the start of the race he turned into Dan. Max keeps driving like this he will end up killing someone.

      4. well kimi did say that this would happen and yeah max needs a face ban for 2 moves…

    2. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
      29th April 2018, 17:38

      @phylyp you cannot seriously consider that Ricciardo should be reprimanded or penalized…

      Max was so much more aggressive and broke the defensive rules. Ricciardo had the pass but then a car appeared in front of him that should haven’t been there. Guess who it turned out to be? Max!!! He was on the right and then moved to the right which was clearly defensive since it’s not the racing line.

      1. it seemed that VERS was holding RICC (I might be wrong), why wouldn’t the team give a hint to VERS and let him know to be “less competitive” when his teammate is right behind him….after all, it is a team sport when it comes to payday?

        1. No he wasn’t holding him

          RIC has this massive tow plus DRS so he could attack. Had they changed it would’ve been the other way around probably.

          1. RIC was faster. As soon as he cleared Max, he was pulling away from him. He was also a lot faster than Max ever was in the race in the 3-lap period after he had backed off a little to charge his battery.

          2. Arnoud van Houwelingen (@arnoudvanhouwelingen)
            1st May 2018, 9:59

            @krxx in the middle stint Max had a gap of more then 3 seconds to Ricciardo. Max then got stuck behind Hamilton and that was the only reason Ricciardo came close to Verstappen again. Your whole “charge his battery” is nonsense because you make the assumption that Max didn’t need to charge his battery which is ridiculous. And how is it possible that Max passed Ricciardo after the pitstop when as you put it “Ricciardo was pulling away from Verstappen” .. the guy behind has Always the advantage of speed on the long straight due to the big tow (which effect increased because of the strong winds) and DRS!

      2. @freelittlebirds, @phylyp : I thought Max had zigged and zagged but on the slow-motion I realised that he had moved back onto the racing line, which he is entitled to do. Ricciardo was following the bullfighter’s cape. Maybe Max could have foreseen the consequences better, maybe Ricciardo should have slowed more given that he had bought the dummy move. But as we know, it ended badly. I felt sorry for both of them and initially blamed Max. Later I saw that it was much more of a “six of one, half a dozen of the other” scenario.

        1. Later I saw that it was much more of a “six of one, half a dozen of the other” scenario

          Yes @tribaltalker – I think this is a fair assessment, and one hopes both drivers take away lessons from this incident. I’m sure RBR management aren’t too thrilled either (despite what they publicly state), seeing as this was RBR’s second double-DNF in just four races.

        2. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
          30th April 2018, 20:21

          @tribaltalker @phylyp Are you guys 100% sure that the inside is the racing line on that massive straight heading into Turn 1?

          In the laps following the incident, Bottas was on the right and Vettel dove on the inside for a block-pass going wide. If the inside was the racing line, why wasn’t Bottas on it? Was Vettel the only driver who knew where the racing line was but then made a mistake?

          IMO and I could be wrong, the racing line was where Verstappen was before he turned to the left to defend against Ricciardo.

          1. @freelittlebirds – I think Vettel’s mistake was that he took a line which his tyres couldn’t cope with. The Red Bull guys didn’t have that problem, it’s normal to take a tight line when you have a car right behind you. If I’m reading it right, Bottas didn’t take a tight line because it wasn’t possible on cold rubber. That’s how it looked to me but better drivers may well disagree.

          2. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
            30th April 2018, 21:06

            @tribaltalker well, what you’re suggesting by taking a tighter line was a move to defend against Daniel – otherwise all 2nd moves can be described as tight racing line moves:-)

            What if Daniel had gone another car’s width to the right instead of cutting to the left? That’s another racing line there – aka the wide racing line:-) Max could have defended there too by changing to the wider racing line.

            So the racing line on turn 1 at Baku is really whatever the driver decides it to be and that means that 2 defensive moves are allowed at Baku on Turn 1 with DRS at full speed. That’s a very dangerous precedent for the stewards to set on that straight.

            In the videos, you can actually see Verstappen turning the car in response to Ricciardo’s move to the inside – it wasn’t a move to the racing line but a sudden jerk to avoid having Ricciardo side-by-side or probably way ahead of him as they go into the corner.

          3. @freelittlebirds – I’m not defending either of them, I think both of them made serious and dangerous mistakes. But I’d grudgingly give the benefit of the doubt to Verstappen’s choice of line. Neither of them smell of roses right now.

    3. How is it that Horner isn’t to blame. He could have called team orders like a responsible manager, but he ended up with nothing.

      1. I am glad he didn’t. I wish all teams would behave in the same way too. I hate team orders with a passion especially early in the season. How good was it watching those to wheel to wheel in that race? This is what we want more of not less of!!!

        1. to a point yes, but if one is clearly holding up the other in one particular race, then let the faster through, especially when one of the driver is a “lick it and send it” passer, and the other is Max. It was inevitable something was going to happen, so they should have issued an order or told to be wary. Max wanted to save face, Daniel wanted to build on his win last time out, it did not take a genius to know something would happen, and why Horner didn’t pre-empt that is idiotic.
          Why let a good points scoring position be ruined by a poor split second decision by someone who is renowned for it. Max wasn’t going to let Daniel through unless he had the order.
          I laughed early on in the race too when he asked in his impish voice “why is the pass button not working?” “cos you’ve used it all up Max”. Der!

        2. How good that the team lost points and two great drivers DNF’d. A simple “don’t do anything stupid boys” would have done the trick I reckon. I’m no fan of team orders either but there’s a limit.

      2. I believe Ricciardo was the faster of the two Red Bulls and had Red Bull taken action they may well have ended up in 2nd & 3rd rather than a double DNF. Max was the more to blame for the crash, no doubt about it, but Daniel should have guessed Max would pull something like that.

        1. He was only faster because of the massive tow plus DRS he got on the 2.2 km straight.

          1. Keep spreading ish. Maybe one day you’ll believe it yourself.

      3. petebaldwin (@)
        30th April 2018, 9:14

        @thecollaroyboys The crash was very likely to happen and once Red Bull messed the pit stops up and put Ricciardo back behind Verstappen, it’s was 100% guaranteed!

        We’d all be talking about that pit stop if they hadn’t crashed – I’m amazed Horner didn’t admit that as well as both drivers making mistakes, the team did as well.

        1. As a result of Ricciardo’s pitstop he came back on track behind Verstappen and his race engineer said to him over the radio: “OK Daniel we have to start all over again, let’s go and get him”. There was no “keep it clean”, no “be careful”, no “don’t do any crazy things” no “don’t try the impossible” – nothing of a sort. Now with the pace Ricciardo was approaching Verstappen thanks to a massive tow and DRS his speed at two-third length of the strait was so high that it was even doubtful if he would have made the corner without locking up as we saw Vettel do a couple of laps later. Ricciardo was determined to pass Verstappen what ever ‘the team’ cost. Up till then he had been behind Verstappen for most of the race after a masterful pass by MV.

      4. The race engineer of Daniel pushed him on by saying “get him boy” which didn’t help the situation i think …

  2. Very fair decision though Verstappen needs more than a reprimand to cool down, this has been 3rd race weekend where he has been involved in colliding with his rivals on track.

    1. Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
      29th April 2018, 17:26

      and in two cases (HAM/Ver and Ric/Ver) the other driver also had part of the blame. Hamilton could have avoided the collision, and Ricciardo made his mistake as well.

      And when drivers do choose to “cool down”, we (the fans) get annoyed too, look at Bottas in Bahrain, or any race which lacks overtakes that weren’t DRS-assisted. And we critize the stewards just as much when they do take action. “maybe we shouldn’t punish the drivers as much” and when a driver goes unpenalized for once, we cry for penalties. come on.

      1. @justarandomdutchguy Take off those orange tinted glasses.

        1. Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
          29th April 2018, 18:32

          oh, boy, where do I start with this one.
          1.) my favorite driver is Hülkenberg, favorite team Force India. Personally I don’t even like Verstappen that much. He’s way too cocky.
          2.) I will not deny Verstappen’s crash with Vettel in China was VERSTAPPEN’s Fault
          3.) Do you want to deny Ricciardo and Hamilton could also have prevented their respective clashes, and are duly, partially to blame.

          But what I do not like are trigger happy stewarts, and the inconsistence of some fans. When he just arrived, people where praising Verstappen a lot. He was F1’s spectacular wonderboy, and now that he is making mistakes, which, he too, is, he’s suddenly a huge problem. Many of his moves so far have been testament of some very bad timing, and general impatience, and his spin in Melbourne and clash in China were his fault, but the fact these 2 were doesn’t absolve Hamilton and Ricciardo of all blame. The punishment in China was called for, but to single out Verstappen for the clashes in Baku and Bahrain is not. He drives on the edge, and all too often, over it, but too act like he’s the worst driver ever and the others are all, always, innocent is a gross overreaction.

          1. Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
            29th April 2018, 18:48

            And there is no denying the stewards are quite inconsistent. I’ve read rumours Sirotkin is getting penalized for his crash with Alonso, whilst IMO, that was a racing incident as much as you can get them, whislt I have not heard anything about Raikkonen/Ocon incident, in which I think that if some incidents end in punishment, Kimi should have gotten 5/10 secs as well.

            And for the sake of giving people no further ammo, I am gonna omit USA 2017 as an example, where both Ricciardo and Bottas should have gotten a penalty, and IMO Magnussen too, but go back a bit further to Singapore 2015, where Hülkenberg was struck by Massa, crashed and retired, and got a penalty to boot, whereas the incident should have been classed a racing incident. F1 is full of inconsitent stewarding.

            And so far this season, Verstappen isn’t the only driver to pile up mistakes so far. Remember the collision between the Toro Rossos in China, which was even dumber than the Verstappen/Vettel clash, and in qualifying, the pair of them (mainly Hartley this time) almost caused a huge crash again.

          2. There was no blame attributed to Hamilton in the Ver/Ham incident, by stewards or commentators. The latter all concluded it was a racing incident and Ver shouldn’t have placed his car where he did.

          3. @justarandomdutchguy, there was some confusion about that, but it seems that Sirotkin is being penalised for going into the back of Perez at the start of the race rather than for the later clash with Alonso.

      2. There’s is a difference in trying to make a very good and many times impossible overtake, like Ricciardo does and what Max is doing, that is simply “I will make the move and if you don’t let me pass we crash…”

        1. @stagger same thing Riccardo does most times other drivers chicken out but when Verstappen tries to defend its wrong to defend. What is Max supposed to do ? wave him bye? Most of Riccardo’s overtaking moves are “kamikaze” moves that’s why they look good when he pulls them off. Even Chinese GP move on Bottas was banzai in its nature. Now
          try to picture that DR was overtaking Max with the same move he overtook Bottas with for the race win.
          You simply don’t unshackle yourself from responsibilities on the track simply because you’ve made a ‘divebomb’ and simply expect the other driver not to “cause” the accident. All I’m saying is that villanizing Verstappen can only go too far, He hardly made mistakes today and anyone trying to pass him had to work for it and even if they did pass him they didn’t stay there for long. We should be admiring Verstappen for his driving today, nobody wants team orders and everybody wants fair racing but as always race incidents do happen!

          1. There was no serious problem with RIC’s move on Botas: He was inside, left space and made the corner. Compare that to VER’s move on HAM: He was inside, made the corner BUT didn’t leave space.
            Max’s move first to the left, to cover RIC, then to the right to cover RIC again, and then slkightly back to the middle to make the corner is and will always be dirty, and should’ve gotten him a massive amount of driverlicense points.
            After the similar incident with RAI in Spa, where Max got away with a slap on the wrist, they should’ve drawn a line. Instead the FIA will probably invent a new rule to be enforced on everyone except Verstappen.

          2. Amen. Verstappen had a decent race, was the quicker RBR today. When Ricci was out of DRS zone, Verstappen pulled away easily. Ricci was a bit angry I quess, because after their pistop Verstappen emerged as the winner….Ricci tried to get in front with a dummy divebomb but Max the this right back at him. Ricci, as the car behind, should not have made such a dumb move on Verstappen, who is know as a very fiere defensie. Therefore I blame Ricci forvscrewing up. He is overrating himself I quess

      3. Verstappen has been taking a lot of chances with his defending and attacking this season but he’s been risking too much – loss of multiple positions or race ending damage, to gain one position, which he could achieve more easily with a bit more patience. Ricciardo did the same this race. They rolled the dice 4 times in one race. From a team point of view, there was no upside regarding who finished ahead, only a downside if one or both retired or were delayed enough to lose other positions.

      4. @Dutchguy

        Hamilton could have avoided the collision

        So could VERS. THe problem with Max is he leaves no quarter and does not respect other drivers. All fair and fine- but he shouldn’t expect others to not reciprocate in kind. That crash should have happened sooner- the amount of times Max went for gaps that weren’t there and RIC yielded. At the end of the day as a racing driver you cannot give the impression that you fear your opponent especially your team mate. From that perspective I say RIC did the right thing.

    2. I disagree. I would hold Verstappen almost entirely to blame for that crash. Ricciardo was clearly quicker and max kept moving to block him. Max then went right in what appeared to be an attempt to take the racing line at which point Ricciardo went to the left and then Max immediately pulled left again giving Ricciardo nowhere to go but into the back of him!

      In fact I can’t understand why Max has not been given a penalty for breaking the rules regarding the number of moves you can make…

      I really like Max and I think he will certainly be world champion one day but he needs to calm down a bit.

      1. I agree, Max needs to wind it back a bit, I disagree that he was faster, Max was holding the train up a bit during sections of the race and when he was passed overreacted a touch.

      2. Totally agree, and I think it was only the fact that both drivers are in the same team that prevented the stewards from going further. Can you imagine Ricciardo saying he misjudged it if he went driving for Red Bull? Trouble is, I have no confidence in the team sorting Verstappen out, just like they blamed Webber after Vettel swiped him in Turkey. Without a meaningful censure, drivers will not learn how to behave.

      3. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
        30th April 2018, 20:26

        I am in complete agreement – he broke the rules with the 2nd move and also had prior contact in the race which should be taken into account. Ricciardo took evasive maneuvers more than once to prevent an incident which also needs to be taken into account.

        Even Horner was begging Max to keep it clean on the radio but Max had other plans yesterday.

  3. That seems quite fair and reasonable, it’s best they don’t interfere too much when there is such a divided opinion. It ended both races which itself is a big enough outcome

  4. “The Stewards heard from Daniel Ricciardo, the driver of car 3, Max Verstappen, the driver of car 33 and the team representative,” they noted.

    “Both drivers contributed to the collision. The driver of car 33 made two moves, both of which were relatively minor.

    “The driver of car 3 admitted he left his move to overtake on the left, too late. It was obvious to the stewards that although the incident had its origins in the moves by car 33, the driver of car 3 also contributed to the incident.

    This confuses me a bit because according to this article

    “New regulations for 2017 instruct stewards to issue penalties only when it is “clear” that a drivers is “wholly or predominantly to blame”.

    A rules clarification issued late last year, following complaints from some drivers over moves made by Max Verstappen, has also been revised. Verstappen had drawn criticism for changing his line in braking zones to defend his position.
    The stewards are now expected to only take action against such moves if they are shown to have been genuinely dangerous”

    “Both drivers contributed to the collision. The driver of car 33 made two moves, both of which were relatively minor.

    According to them Verstappen wasn’t predominantly to blame how come he gets reprimanded?

    1. Because he was at fault, you’re not allowed to make two moves however minor.

      1. But he wasn’t the one predominantlyto blame for the accident, Verstappen didn’t crash into anyone, Daniel did

        1. You can repeat another part of that report too:
          “the incident had its origins in the moves by car 33”.

          1. Really? who was trying to overtake who? If I remember correctly car 33 was ahead of car 3. You can also repeat whatever part of the report you want but at the end of the day car 3 ploughed into car 33.

            That report only lends to the notion that the stewards aren’t consistent with their penalties,.Daniel hardly causes any accidents and we don’t have to read that from a report, we can see it in his measured drives, but when a report categorically states that the driver of car 3 admitted to a late move(that led to the accident), yet goes on to suggest driver of car 33 is to blame and driver of car 3 “only” “contributed” is absurd by its nature.

          2. Unfortunately when both drivers of the same team had been to see the boss before the stewards, you cannot trust either of their words.

        2. Verstappen made his car 4 meters wide by moving first to the right, then a carwidth to the left, to come bacj half a metre. The only thing RIC could have done, was slamming the brakes.
          RIC took a part of the blame, probably under pressure from the team, and to keep a workable relationship with Max, but whatever you claim, Max’s drive was certainly dirty. I bet inside the RedBull family, another report has been given and Max will have to learn faster

          1. Do you really feel the RBR team played the FIA over this…?

            Ricciardo was clearly in the wrong, but Verstappen could have avoided a potential high risk incident.
            Ricciardo is usually a safe driver, his late braking moves highly depend on the awereness of other drivers.

            Verstappen however has a very very rough start of the season, really playing a hard game and probably got the warning for being a bit to risky.

            I felt Verstappen took to much not giving up during the first overtake mve by Dan early in the race, the fatal incident though was on Ricciardo. A warning to both seems just fair imo.

    2. Neither driver got a penalty. They both got a reprimand.

      1. It’s likely penalties are written into both drivers contracts for misdemeanours, so while the FIA haven’t issued any penalties, I wouldn’t be surprised to find both drivers on washing dishes duty for the next few weeks.

    3. No penalties issued.

  5. I think this is fair. It’s difficult to apportion blame for this crash. Ricciardo’s trademark move is spectacular when it comes off, but I’ve been waiting for it to go wrong for a while. His body language driving the car seemed feisty today and I was expecting this to happen from the moment Max overtook him after the first restart.

    Verstappen’s “weaving” in the braking zone is not reasonable. His movements are remarkably subtle and I think that’s why he gets away with it. He doesn’t aggressively swerve from one side to the other; rather hovering non-committal in the middle and waiting for the chaser to make his move, before moving half a car width across to cover. This is on the very edge of acceptable.

    I think both drivers did things that contributed to the crash that in hindsight they would not have done again. I hope they or the team aren’t deterred from racing again, because they are both a thrill to watch when they get it right.

    1. Spot on

    2. Agreed

    3. Spot on.

      But I would like to add, he crashed in every race so far this year.

    4. Here is the funny thing. In any lower class with mirrors. Well he would be not just reprimanded but in hospital.

      Max missed out on any class (Superkart – the lot frankly) where mirrors where not your best friend not because you are slower but mainly because you race without any or you can’t see out of them anyway – that right there is the issue and when it costs enough someone will do something about it.

      The boy needs to remember it’s not PS4

      Frankly embarrassing

    5. Well said.

      I don’t fully agree, as I think Verstappen is almost entirely at fault, but I can see why many think Ricciardo is.

      IMO: the car is always going to close the gap in the draft. DR had two options – back off early and try to follow Max around the corner, or go for an overtake. For the former, DR would have had to back off not long after the pit entry. The draft and overtake attempt was clearly on here. After all, a racing driver ceases to be a racing driver when they don’t go for the gap.

      For the overtake, DR played Max with the dummy – Max moved to cover the outside line giving DR no option to perform his braking there (had he done so, he would have been in a similar position with no downforce behind Max’s car). Max showed the intention at that point (here DR, I’m taking the outside line, you can take the inside line). So DR takes the inside line, which would have given him a tricky and slow exit, similar to when Max took the inside when they touched wheels.

      You can see the split second of “oh crap” indecision in Ricciardo’s cockpit as soon as Max makes his second move away from the racing line to cover the inside. He’s tempted to try the inside anyway, but realises there’s probably not a car width there and immediately applied the brakes, but at that point there was nothing he could have done to avoid the accident – Max closed the door that he opened a split second earlier, leaving no gap. At that point, RD moving to the outside would have been dangerous and likely to cause a high speed crash.

    6. That would work really well, except for what actually happened on track. Verstappen left Ricciardo no room and closed the door in the braking zone. You can’t do that. Not in the rules. Not in common racing etiquette.

  6. I herewith give both my official complements for very good racing and an exciting afternoon until that point.
    (Ric slightly more than Ver)

    1. Compliments of course.

  7. Neil (@neilosjames)
    29th April 2018, 17:15

    Surprising. Expected Verstappen to get points and a grid drop.

    Probably would have, if it had been any car other than his team-mate that went into his rear end.

    1. @neilosjames, so far, it seems that the only driver who has been given a grid penalty for colliding with another driver is Sirotkin – there are reports he’s been given a three place penalty for the collision with Alonso, which seems rather harsh given that Hulkenberg collided with Sirotkin and seemed to push him into Alonso.

    2. Expected Verstappen to get points and a grid drop.

      Yup me too. To me Verstappen is fully to blame and here’s why:

      VER made a second move, back to the left, just as the breaking zone started. This was a move in reaction to Ric moving to the left first. Making two moves is illigal but it’s also illigal to ‘react’ i.e. block. So basically Verstappen moved twice (strike 1), made his second move under bracking (strike 2) AND it was a blocking move (strike 3). Ricciardio had to hit the brakes at the same time he was blocked. From that point on he’s a passenger and so there was nothing he could have done differently imho.

      1. Having raced – and won championships he has not….

        Plus 10000

      2. @jeffreyj How do you know Max’s move was in reaction, and not just him moving to take the inside line and the apex? I think his second move was just to set himself up for the corner. After all, DR was always fully behind him. DR decided there was going to be room on the inside, and as usual his dive bombing style comes with risks. At the pace he was going, and had Max let him up the inside, DR might easily have T-boned him.

        Aside from that the stewards did not seem to think either driver was more to blame, and some seem to think it was a little more Max to blame, or a draw. I generally subscribe to the theory that it is the rearward driver that has more control of the situation as he is the one that can see everything unfolding, whereas the leader has only his mirrors, and the rearward driver is the one that can chose to back off and try again at another corner. Just as Max has been advised he could do more often.

        I think we saw a DR today who was ticked to get passed by Max to begin with, then that he couldn’t get by him at all for a long while, then when he did that didn’t last due to his slow out lap, and there he was behind Max again, and that must have really been frustrating, having outqualified him, and having started ahead of him on the grid. DR could have waited for another opportunity, but then again Max is obviously super tough to pass, so perhaps DR thought he might not get a better chance.

        1. Ricci outq’d Verstappen because of the big tow he got from Kimi…like in the race, Ricci was slower and only because each and every round he got his DRS and tow from Verstappen…held him in this race. Ricci drove into Verstappen…so IMHO Ricci is at fault here. The big problem is…Ricci is everyones darlin while Verstappen is seen as the arrogant brat. I’ll bet if Verstappen drove into the back of Ricci…every body would still be blaming Verstappen lol

          1. I’ll bet if Verstappen would spin, crash multiple times in every single race of a season, f-boys from the netherlands would still say he’s not to blame..

        2. @robbie

          How do you know Max’s move was in reaction

          You are right, I don’t know for sure. However, we have seen muliple instances where you can see he is looking in his mirrors, waiting for the guy behind to make the first move and then reacting. I’m thinking of Kimi at Spa and Hungary and against Hamilton at Suzuka. In fact, he already did it against Ocon in F3: You can see him watching his mirrors and react to Ocon rather than acting first.

          As for the stewards, they make mistakes all the time. Their verdict isn’t exactly gospel, don’t you agree?
          As for Ricciardo, yeah I think he was very eager to get passed Verstappen. What the reasons for that are neither here nor there really. He simply was determined to make a move asap and I think that wasn’t the smartest approach. He was never going to get any higher up the order after Verstappen because there was about a 20 second gap in front of them, so he essentially had 1/3 of the race left to time his overtake on the mainstraight in such a way that it would be over before T1. His enginineer cheering him on to overtake VER again added unnecessary fuel to the fire too imho.

          However, being a bit impatient and aggressive DOES NOT equal guilt. Moving twice, one of which was a reactionary block once under braking DOES.

          1. @jeffreyj Leading drivers in these kinds of situations are looking in their mirrors all the time. It’s what they have to do, and is all they can do as they lead and the car behind has the advantage of seeing the whole situation and controlling it from behind. DR could have backed off sooner, and admitted that he committed to the inside too soon. The stewards deemed Max’s moves to be minimal.

            The stewards verdicts are as close to gospel as we have. I would say that when something happens that is blatant, they have no choice in their verdicts. But when something is very shades of grey, and can go a few ways arguably, then sure they may take a little license and leave the penalty up to the team, especially when both drivers paid the ultimate price of taking each other out. They heard both drivers, and after that could have apportioned more blame one way or the other but they didn’t. And both drivers seem to have accepted that. This way the team gets to decide how to proceed, and F1 gets to not be seen as controlling what one team does, by singling out one driver between the two at RBR. I’m sure the race-long duel they had up until that point played a role in their decision to let the team deal with their drivers, who on this day were uniquely close to each other all day.

  8. The shame of it is, if the race had gone on without them both crashing out, most of the subsequent talk would have been about their spectacular racing enlivening the entire race, overshadowing whomever would have won the race.

    1. I think that is the end result regardless… Who won again? I think it was Red Bull, regardless of what the points say.

      1. @skipgamer – LOL, nice one, you got me there. This made me laugh out loud :-)

    2. @phylyp I thought it was great regardless. It’s a shame that it ended with such a silly crash, and I would have liked to see them take on the others, but still, what a thriller.

    3. @phylyp I think it all turned when after passing Max with a good move into turn 1 , (although he locked up which suggests that either Max was either as fast as him or Daniels tyres were gone) the undercut didn’t work which led to

      “You are going to have to do him again,” Daniel Ricciardo’s race engineer had said to the Australian just before the incident”

      Reminiscent of Bottas v Kimi Sochi 15 when Kimis race engineer told Kimi it was all or nothing

  9. It’s the right result. Max moved minorly, but Dan shouldn’t have been so out of control of his car with regards to being able to brake when the door was closed. If Dan didn’t hit Max there could have been an argument about the defending being too aggressive, but then with that result there’s no argument that the overtake wasn’t too aggressive as well.

    It’s a shame it ended both their races becuase they deserve a good result from the racing until that point. But it’s great we got to see it. Thoroughly entertaining and I hope Red Bull think the value of the highlight and the contest and discussion is worth what it’s cost them in terms of the championship

    1. I think you are missing the point of late braking mechanics. There is no direction change possible when you stamp the brakes from 330kph. Only when slowed down he can move.

      Max blocked them right when he initiated his anchor drop. In any case that would result in an accident.

      Max should get a race ban, so he never does this type of blocking again. It is only ever gonna result in crashes.

        1. -1 max did not move under breaking and did not crash into somebody….

      1. When Daniel overtook Max the first time before his pitstop, Max did the same thing but Daniel also locked up.
        what indication was there that if he tried going down the inside which Max hadn’t surrendered that he wouldn’t lock up!?

        1. Being Daniel Ricciardo, the man of double whamy inside line late brake overtaker.

          He did fail a judgement test. Overtaking Max would only end in tears, they were going at it all race, and Max crashed every weekend so far.

          He should be wise enough to anticipate it. Maybe he did and crashed to prove a point.

      2. @jureo Yet Max got nothing near a race ban, so perhaps it is not @skipgamer that is missing the point of late braking mechanics, and perhaps it was DR that put himself in the position with too much of a head of steam for that corner to begin with.

        1. That is all very well, but you can’t overtake by braking earlier/going slower than the car in front.
          motor racing is about overtaking.
          VER defended the outside line. He can’t then
          move to the inside. Very basic. Neither on the straight or in the braking area. You can’t move twice.
          And before you argue he can return to the racing line, that is on the right side of the track for a left hand corner.

  10. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
    29th April 2018, 17:26

    Why on earth would Daniel get reprimanded? This was his best race EVER! He looked like Lewis vs Nico. He passed Max many times and Max kept pushing for a collision.

    1. Not his best race surely! Even discounting his race wins Monaco 16 was surely better!

      1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
        29th April 2018, 22:07

        @mim5 not really because those races were won with superior pace. Today’s race was apple against apples and Verstappen was unfortunately crushed.

    2. He passed Max many times? I only saw him pass Max once, and then not long after that they pitted after which Max was ahead again.

      1. Ricci fans are the most biased in the world

      2. @robbie He did pass him several times but couldnt make it stick for more than a second or two. I guess its always something.

        I loved their battle but even so i kinda wish they would hunt for Merc or Ferrari instead of batteling each other in no mans land.

        1. @rethla Exactly. He couldn’t make a pass stick.

          1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
            29th April 2018, 22:05

            @Robbie well, he couldn’t make a pass stick without retiring both Red Bulls. If that’s the statement that’s correct but Max is the one that put him to the test by pushing wheels against him and closing the door multiple times.

      3. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
        29th April 2018, 22:11

        @Robbie that was quite nasty from Red Bull to do that to Daniel – it was obvious that the laps on the cold tyres were slow as evidenced by Lewis losing position to Bottas (without SC even). After he passed Max, they sent Daniel right behind him over a couple of laps.

        I’ve no idea why Max felt he could block Daniel there. It was almost as nonsensical as Nico stopping Lewis in Spain – the only way to stop is to use your car as a weapon to block the other car in an inevitable collision.

        1. @freelittlebirds Exactly. Max is the one who put DR to the test. But he never blocked DR. Had he, he would have gotten more than the same reprimand as DR. Moving a few inches across the track and back is hardly a block. It is a fein but not a block. DR over cooked it thinking he was going to pull of a dive bomb in that tight spot.

          1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
            30th April 2018, 13:35

            @Robbie come on, that was a full block and illegal. I like the excitement that Verstappen brings but this is getting insane. You can see Verstappen from the front shot, correcting and turning to cover Ricciardo on the inside. The overhead shot makes the move appear small but if Verstappen hadn’t moved, Ricciardo would have passed him since Max’s car would not have been there.

            Hamilton would have gotten 15 drive through penalties if he had done what Verstappen or Vettel do – the stewards are getting out of hand. Last year at Baku was the end of any stewardship in F1 – no one even cares what they are doing or why.

          2. @freelittlebirds Simply if it was a full block and illegal, as blatant as that, the stewards would have nothing to ‘get out of hand’ over, as they would have had no choice but to put the weight of the blame on Max. That wasn’t the case, so they didn’t.

            And you’re just showing your blinders for LH when you claim silly things like ’15 drive through penalties.’ Maybe LH learned his ‘pity me’ mode from you?

          3. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
            30th April 2018, 15:33

            @Robbie you are using the stewards’ decision as an argument that Verstappen’s move wasn’t illegal. The F1 stewards are the laughingstock of the racing community – the NBC sports commentators would always be respectful and question their consistency and that was on air where they had to appear professional.

            Off air, they were probably wondering what they were smoking cause they don’t seem to watch the F1 races closely :-)

            Last year, they waited almost an hour before investigating Vettel’s accident (they probably didn’t know about it) and yesterday they didn’t seem to know that Vettel did a start stop under safety car which nearly caused a collision during the race.

            Yesterday, they relied on Lewis to let them know at the end of the race. There was a truck on the actual track and the race wasn’t red-flagged. They also didn’t clear all the debris on track despite having so many safety cars that lasted forever.

            In China, they didn’t seem to know about the formation lap issue with Perez and Hartley and the decision to punish both was comical.

          4. @freelittlebirds In your opinion. Aside from the stewards, I didn’t hear any pundit say what Max did was illegal.

    3. Max passed RIC more times than the other way around. After all he was in front of RIC while he started behind him.

      1. Niki Lauder’s comment on Verstappen moving around under breaking and all the poll results on who was attributed most of the blame, says it all I think.

    4. I agree, Max was making it apparent that being in front of Daniel was more important than being faster than Daniel. In fact it seemed Max would have preferred crashing out with Daniel than to have let Daniel get ahead of him. Well, if that’s what he wanted then he’ll sleep peacefully tonight.

      1. How can you say this? Max and RIC have identical cars. RIC started ahead of Max but Max passed him easily. After that RIC got a tow from Max every lap he was behind him. And most of the time DRS as well. What can you do but defend hard? I found The speed difference insane with the same cars and tires.

  11. How come no one is talking about the Kimi-Ocon crash? I say it looked like Kimi had won the right to get some room through that corner

    1. I agree.

      Even if Ocon believed it was his corner alone, he still should taken a margin and give Kimi room, if only to protect his car. He had the room to his right to do it too. I think though, that he didn’t look in his mirror and thought he was fully passed Kimi.

    2. Ocon was ahead and that gives him the right to the racing line.

      First lap incidents are looked at very differently though.

    3. I think the only reason it’s not being discussed much is because the “wrongdoer” to most of us was Ocon, and he paid the price with a retirement.

      @patrickl – however, Kimi had a significant part of his car alongside, which earned him the right to be given room, and not have a car chop across in front of him.

      1. @phylyp No, that is not how that works. The “alongside and needs to be left room” thing is only in the braking zone and on straights. Once the drivers go into the corner, the lead car has the right to the racing line.

        1. @patrickl Not true. The lead car can chop if only a small part of the attacking car is alongside. Like when Kimi attacked Bottas in 2015 (I think Sochi). When Ocon chops, Kimi is more than 50% alongside.

    4. “How come no one is talking about the Kimi-Ocon crash? I say it looked like Kimi had won the right to get some room through that corner” – Maybe bc the article concerns RIC and VER. The real question is why are you trying to divert the attention away from their collision. Maybe bc 90% is blaming VER, your idol?

  12. I’ve very positive about Max for a long time, but this year I’m really tired of seeing him waste his talent with this kind of unmature driving. I made a comment about if it would go well next time RIC would try to pass Max, when Max had jumped RIC during the pitstop, and I only managed to press the send button, then it went wrong. Max has become even more instable, lacking ability to finish the race. I really hoped he learned the lesson last race, when his imature driving style – a really rookie like mistake, to go for a gap, which never was there, but it was clear from the first fights with Ricciardo, that Max had learned nothing. Sadly it appears that he is not willing to learn from this race either. The team shouldn’t allow him near the other RB, before he has shown ability to control it. I suspect that this years RB and this years tires isn’t providing Max with the same kind of precise control he often has been using to good effect.

    1. @palle Exatly. I’m Dutch and I would love to be rooting for the guy, but his driving is nothing less than despicable bullying.

      Amazingly it seems it has gotten even worse this season. Every race this season he seems intent to ruin everyone’s race who dares to oppose him. He apparently feels the need to force a collision when someone outdefends or potentially overtakes him fairly. Perhaps to establish dominance or something, but he only makes himself look worse and worse.

    2. He had awesome control on all his moves today. He placed the car where he wanted every time.

      The problem is where he placed it, not lack of car control when placing it.

      1. I have to agree with your first statement, Dan’s first attempt on overtaking Max resulted in Max showing he had learnt after his botched attempted at overtaking Hamilton in Bahrain ,don’t give in!, Dan even tried the ‘patented’ Seb manoeuvre of squeezing him against the wall which Max duly resisted.
        But then again I cannot agree with your 2nd statement; if anyone lost control of their car today it wasn’t Max

        1. “Dan even tried the ‘patented’ Seb manoeuvre of squeezing him against the wall which Max duly resisted.” – Ehh, we all saw the race, right? Who was forced to choose between either releasing the throttle or getting squeezed into a wall, wheelbanging all the way? You Maxfanatics are truly unbelievable.

          1. @krxx
            Spot on.

  13. To me it’s super weird Sirotkin get’s a grid penalty for being sandwiched by Hulkenberg and Alonso and the RB guys (no matter you view on who’s to blame) get nothing. Why did Sirotkin get penalized?!

    1. @jeffreyj, it appears that a correction has now been issued, and apparently the reason for the penalty is now being given as running into the back of Perez at Turn 2 on the opening lap – whilst he did that, it does still seem to be an especially harsh penalty for what, whilst a clumsy incident, seems to be far milder than some of the other collisions that warranted little more than a reprimand or no action at all (such as the Kimi-Ocon collision).

  14. I think the race stewards got this one 100% right.

  15. Bring back verstapen rule !

  16. @joac21 – This crash has nothing to do with the Verstappen rule, as the crash didn’t happen in the braking zone, it was well before the braking zone on the straight, where Verstappen swerves to avoid being overtaken. This isn’t allowed and I wonder why the stewards didn’t punish him – also on the merrit that he has caused incident after incident in this season. And I was opposed to the Verstappen rule when it was introduced.

    1. The crash wasn’t on the braking zone ?? Are you watching the same race as everyone else ?

    2. @palle If you watch the video below you will see both Max’s final move & the collision occurred after they had both hit the brakes therefore Max did move in the braking zone.

      This is when Dan hit the brakes:
      This is when Max made the final move to the left:

      1. I don’t agree – the swerving movement starts well outside the braking zone and I don’t see any evidence that VER has started braking before the last lane correction? But it is clear that Verstappen is trying to do it in a subtle way, not to be punished – but he is doing it against his teammate. In my view he is taking far too big risks all the race against the other part of his own team. If it was a on off, it could be accepted, but as many have pointed out – it smelled of trouble for RB all race, and the team failed to prevent it. Horner has still not learned to tackle these issues, despite the days with Vettel and Webber. I’ve previously been very impressed with Max, but this year he fails to learn to maximize points, in favor of building a bad reputation.

        1. @palle

          I don’t see any evidence that VER has started braking before the last lane correction?

          Ricciardo has started braking just before Max makes his final move & Max isn’t pulling away from him so it’s pretty clear that Max has also started braking at that point.

          You can see when Daniel starts braking not just by listening to the OnBoard audio but also because of the DRS which is closed as soon as a driver hits the brakes & that is something you can see from the trackside angles as well as by looking at the blue light on Daniel’s wheel (It’s lit when DRS is open).

  17. exactly the situation others were telling will happen for years. considering the whole race it was clearly verstappens fault. he almost wheelbanged dany into the wall earlier into the race. can’t see max winning wdc with a teammate who’s also ambitious. both could have bee faster without the kneejerk attitude.

  18. This is an unusual and somewhat weird decision by the stewards, especially as they admit that “the incident had its origins in the moves by car 33”, which should translate as “car 33 was predominantly to blame for the incident”. If not, then it was a racing incident but it looks like the stewards wanted to be too smart here and over-analysed the whole thing.

    1. Or it could simply mean “the sequence of events that triggered the accident began with Verstappen’s moves”.

      1. @girts @markzastrow Can’t help but get the impression they took their lead from the team’s interpretation of events.

        1. @keithcollantine I agree with you. The stewards also seem to have been swayed by the fact that Verstappen’s moves were “minor”—and I suspect, perhaps, because Ricciardo was made to look clumsy by plowing directly into the back of Verstappen.

          It seemed though that once he saw contact was inevitable, he opted for direct nose-to-tail contact instead of right front–to–left rear contact, which is of course the safer option. Unfortunately for him, I can’t help but feel that if he had instead continued moving to the inside and put himself right against the wall, the stewards might have been less swayed.

        2. @keithcollantine Yes, that is very possible. A collision between team mates is always a delicate issue anyway so probably I should not be too hard on the stewards.

  19. Is this the first time both drivers of an incident were reprimanded?

  20. I don’t agree – the swerving movement starts well outside the braking zone and I don’t see any evidence that VER has started braking before the last lane correction? But it is clear that Verstappen is trying to do it in a subtle way, not to be punished – but he is doing it against his teammate. In my view he is taking far too big risks all the race against the other part of his own team. If it was a on off, it could be accepted, but as many have pointed out – it smelled of trouble for RB all race, and the team failed to prevent it. Horner has still not learned to tackle these issues, despite the days with Vettel and Webber. I’ve previously been very impressed with Max, but this year he fails to learn to maximize points, in favor of building a bad reputation.

  21. Well, MAX moved twice

    1. Yeah the first issue is that Max moved twice. Ric tried to sell the dummy, and while Max maybe didn’t fully purchase this dummy, he certainly went into the dressing room to try it on! Once he realized what Danny was up to, I think his “oh heck no I’m not going to be on a highlight reel falling for that move” instinct kicked in and he moved back across, although quite subtle but still clearly the case.

      Could Dan have avoided the incident? Of course… by not trying a move.

      But If the rules of engagement as agreed say that the lead driver is only allowed a single move, and then the trailing driver sees that move, I feel he has every right to feel safe in making an attempt without fear of being blocked.

      Should DR have been aware that Max tends to not follow this rule and so expect to get blocked? Probably. But then no one would ever make a move if they’re always anticipating the other driver to not follow that rule. This sport and overtaking in general is alway predicated on trust. They need to be more consistent on enforcing the ‘One move rule’ and the ‘no moving during braking’ rule.

      So in my opinion I agree with the ruling in that the crash was instigated by Max. Danny could have avoided the accident if he had assumed that Max would not follow the blocking rules (as he tends not to it would seem). Is that true? Yes. Is that reasonable? No.

      The other question is what would have happened had Max not come across? Would Danny have been able to get far enough alongside before turn-in to make the move look reasonable? Or would he have overshot the corner and speared into Max? That part we will never know, and that would have been another big part of this.

      So all we can judge is what DID happen, and that’s Max moving twice (and possibly even under braking) and so I lay this at his doorstep.

      I do agree that the big reason there was no further action taken by the stewards is the fact that they’re teammates and so losing those points is already a large punishment. But I don’t think that’s any consolation to DR losing all those potential points in the WDC. Nor is it a deterrent to Max to be more responsible while defending.

      1. Long story, but it was just a slight move. He moved once to the right and then left towards the corner… a direction he was always going to go. No need to make a drama over this. Like Max in the previous race Daniel just should have waited a lap

    2. Well, Ricciardo drove into Verstappen…rest my case

      1. I don’t think you have a case.

  22. I thought it very odd when Ver cut corner and then let the renault ?Snz past, and immediately repassed him on the straight. Wasnt a presedent set for this with Ham/Rai at Spa all those years ago, when Ham got a penalty for not giving him 2 corners?

    1. My thought too when it happened. But that was a precedent set to ensure FIA could give a special point bonus to Massa. No longer applicable.

  23. I don’t really understand the fuzz about moving twice. Imho Max is taking the middle of the track and only slightly moving his direction before he starts braking to cover the inside. It’s not like he’s going all over the place. RIC was going for a gap that never was going to be there. Maybe the easy Bottas style of defending got him over confidant or maybe he just made a misjudgment but this didn’t look very good. If he would’ve waited for the next laps he’d probably have a better change on a DRS overtake like he did a couple of times before in the race.

    I can live with the fact no one gets punished but I still think RIC is most to blame

    1. I fully agree. Only argument you can make vs Verstappen is that the type of defence might have been within the limits, but to pull it on a team mate perhaps slightly too much

    2. I think that’s what I enjoy about racing so much, as there’s so many viewpoints to consider and we each see things slightly differently. It makes for good conversation even days after a race is over. :)

      I would agree that Ric should have assumed that gap would close. But the question is did Max have a ‘legal’ right to close that gap? And the answer is no. So… it’s probably a dumb move by Ric, but the only one technically wrong by the rules is Max.

      Also I feel that gap would not have closed if Danny didn’t make that move. So the closing gap was caused by the move attempt, and not because of a driver taking a normal racing line. So that makes it a little fuzzy as well.

      I’ll liken this to being cut off while driving on the road on your way to work. Everyone is patiently waiting for their turn to exit the freeway, and yet someone feels they’re too good to have to wait in line, and so drives around the group of cars, finds a tiny gap in the traffic, and turns his nose into that gap in front of you. You slam on the brakes to avoid the accident and he gets to take his place in front of you. He was the only one legally wrong, but it’s also your responsibility to avoid an accident if possible, right? So is it now okay for everyone to drive that way because I have to assume that everyone will break that traffic law and so I should just deal with it? Or should that driver cutting in be held responsible?

      If the drivers have to assume the other car will probably move twice, even though it’s not allowed, that’s just the same as them being allowed to move twice. Either option accomplishes the same thing which is to prevent the car behind from overtaking.

      At least that’s in my view :) and my view isn’t the one that counts! lol

    3. I can live with the fact no one gets punished but I still think RIC is most to blame

      Whoops your bias is showing :))

      1. I don’t mind if you want to think that

        1. Seems the Max factor affects logic as well.

    4. VERS was also weaving before the incident occurred to try and break the tow. That leaves your argument in tatters.

  24. The FIA has to apply Crash Max a preventive ban race before it’s too late. This driver since he started to race in F1 has been crashing once and again to the main drivers, even those who are fighting for the title. He has no respect for anyone or anything. It is completely unsportsmanlike to act, but as it generates controversy has the support of most sensationalist journalists.

  25. I think that anyone who watches professional sports has seen that often ( perhaps too often) the officials make mistakes. We have seen cornerbacks pin receivers arms down without penalties being called, refs calling phantom fouls on players driving to the hoop ( I can see MISSING contact but, how do you call contact when none took place ) and countless balls and strikes missed by umps . Officials make mistakes ,period . Add to this the fact that F1 stewards are given their position based on their histories not their skills and you have a recipe for mistake but, I believe , as do others ,that the problem with F1 rulings Re: race behavior goes beyond simple mistakes .
    There IS a clear pattern in F1 of different rules for different teams and different rules for different drivers . Never before has this been so pronounced as with Max Verstappen who since has has started driving F1 has been permitted to break the rules even to the point of putting another at risk of serious injury or death ( Raikonnen at SPA ) without action by the stewards.
    The consensus is that F1 ,because of failing popularity wanted to create a new star and what better than a young star so….the unwritten rule given to the stewards ( at least the ones who wanted the honor of having that position again) was : whatever Verstappen does is within the rules . Cuts off another driver at 200mph ON A STRAIGHT =OK ,moves right ,out of the racing line and then back left and does both in the braking zone thus blocking an attempted over- take and knocking off the other cars front wing = OK .
    It is for the stewards to say what was proper or not and they are ex-professionals and have the benefit of review so they must be correct , right ? That was easy to sell to most and if some could see the pattern and the clear errors and favoritism -so what ? what was anyone to do about it ?
    The fact is that those of us who know the difference and care about uniform fairness are few and those who want a new young star are more so F1 has help its popularity by imposing the “Verstappen ” policy ,not by much but, their plan has worked ,FOR NOW.
    In the long run they have hurt their sport and Verstappen because he has the raw talent to one day be great but, is no better now than the day he started because he has relied on the artificial advantage given to him and was not forced to get better .
    Further, he has caused damage to other racers and has altered what were deserved outcomes ,for example as when recently he hit Vettel at China , Verstappen had a 10 sec penalty but, Vettel did not get 10 sec. gain or anything else to make up for time lost.
    The real shame has yet to come, however, and it is the outcome that frightens me and others Ii would think and and that is this : F1 will do nothing to reign in an out of control Max Verstappen until he does what it is he is likely to do and that is : SERIOUSLY HURT OR KILL ANOTHER DRIVER .
    F1 knows this is true although I am sure they are hoping against hope that it will not happen . Perhaps they think that all of the other drivers will be frightened of Max ,understand that he will do anything that help hims even if it put others in danger and thus they will avoid challenging him . That is not going to happen, these are professional racers who will not back down and so there will be a serious accident -only it will not be an accident ,it will be on purpose and with warning and knowledge that it will happen .
    Then and only then will something be done and the new rule will be know for the dead or crippled driver . Not a way any driver or his family wants him to be remembered .

  26. This is a tricky one. Ricciardo is one of the punchiest overtakers, Max one of the hardest defenders, it was always going to happen eventually.

    If you look at the move, Ricciardo effectively dummies himself as well as Max. Max does move more than he should but you could argue that if Ricciardo hadn’t tried to be over clever and just switched back to the outside, then it all gets avoided. In the end you can say it was wires getting crossed and a reprimand each probably correct.

  27. Unfortunately F1 like other sports businesses look at things from the promotional point of view more often than the sporting point of view. E.G the Olympics, professional cycling, in Australia some of our footy players have gotten away with some pretty dodgy/ilegal stuff because the “stars” would have been damaged.
    In F1 Schumacher got away with some pretty dangerous moves with little or no penalty as did Senna for the same reason.
    I think Verstappens driving quirks will catch up with him if he continues down this RD. But it will be RedBull that does the deed not liberty or the race stewarts. Simply because he will cost RedBull money and that’s the bottom line for them.
    If Ricciardo leaves at the end of this year RedBull may have a bit of a driver problem if they can’t get another with the same experience and skill. They will be left with a quick flashy but hi risk and volatile Verstappen and another 18 year old rookie?

    1. They should hire Alonso.

  28. Seems to me reminiscent of Webber and Raikonnen (2012?). Then, Rai hit the brakes well before Web expected, hence Web’s flight.

    Today, maybe Ric was planning a banzai late brake when Ver braked earlier than Ric would have done, hence boom!

    1. @fudge1200 Heikki Kovalainen and Valencia 2010?

      1. @simracer you’re right of course. First post here! The idea was right, just the wrong Scandinavian! Thanks.

  29. Max moved twice, end of story. Punishing Ricciardo for going to fast is all relative. Max’s 2 moves should cancel everything else out and he should of got the reprimand not Daniel

  30. Speaking of penalties Verstappen caused Ricciardo to hit him quite hard. I’m wondering if that caused damage to Vestappens gear box requiring a change. Would Verstappen then get a grid penalty in Spain?

    1. I’d think it should be ok, it was a hit pretty square on the back, no driveshafts ripped out by the looks of it so internals shouldn’t have been harmed, might need a new rear crash structure but the gearbox itself should be fine.

    2. You can change the gearbox without a penalty if you don’t finish the race @johnrkh.

  31. Horner has to take a healthy share of blame. How many times did he tell Verstappen to “keep it clean”? After he hit ricciardo while being passed, Horner should have put him on notice. he should have been on notice after his tomfoolery in China, but he came to Baku with the same PlayStation mentality and Horner did not curb him. I wonder if having daddy verstappen and family always hanging around makes Horner a bit sheepish when he hits the radio button.

  32. Disgusting driving by verstappen all race, he held up ricciardo way too much in the race for what? He almost broke ricciardos suspension when he hit him at turn one, at that point the team should have told verstappen to give up position. The disgusting block on ricciardo that led to the crash is not on, not at that speed. Some people say you can move more then once, but that is if you are going back onto the racing like, but verstappen went back to block on the inside, it could have been an airplane accident for ricciardo. And it’s not just the fact it is moving too many times, it is also that they are so close and driving so fast, it is beyond rules, it is seriously dangerous. Verstappen should be demoted to torro rosso for a race, give gasly an opportunity to drive cleanly as at the moment verstappen can not.

  33. I will say enjoy the hard racing, but this was just plain ugly, if Horner is really concerned about the 800 people back home and the sponsors he needs to look extremely hard at Max’s effort to hold up the team for the duration of a race. Based on the laptimes between laps 5-15 Verstappen lost the team 20 seconds slowing Ric down; my guess is this is why Newey looked so upset, they lost out on points, but they also a chance to work together on the straights to fight Merc for the podium.

    1. The reason these laptimes were so slow was the fight between them. Max was quicker or as quick but RIC got a huge tow from him at the straight all the time and DRS as well on top of that.

        1. It is according to the lap time charts

          Max had 22 quicker laps against RIC 17. And RIC has a tow plus DRS most of these laps.

          1. Hahahahah, disregarding the general knowledge that being in dirty air is in fact unfavourable. And as soon as he was ahead of Max, he pulled away from him. There goes your ‘tow theory’.

  34. GtisBetter (@)
    30th April 2018, 8:43

    Seems fair. I have a feeling people here are obsessed with blaming drivers. They all want great racing and great overtakes without DRS, but don’t want defending it seems. The defender has to coorporate with everything the attacker does. Everytime a driver touches another driver they can’t help themselves to blame one, even if the drivers, team and stewards see nothing wrong with it. They complain about artificial things like DRS, but want drivers to behave like artificial drivers. That includes being devoid of personality.

    Both Ocon and Verstappen defended hard and there was nothing wrong with it. Force the guy behind you to make a good move, if you just let him pass with no fight, you might as well stop driving. Verstappen was never going to give up the inside line to that corner and anyone who thought he would hasn’t payed attention the last years. Ricciardo made an aggressive decision in a split second and it didn’t work. Overtaking is risk/reward. We cheer when it goes well, but sometimes it doesn’t and then we tell that same driver he should stop doing it? Seem weird to me. Mistakes do get made, but the incredible overreaction and hyperboles that get used in fora is just hilarious. Bans, team orders after verstappen hit ricciardo the first time, tin foil hat conspiracies, Verstappen is going to kill someone!? People should calm down and just enjoy racing.

  35. Magnussen gets a 10 seconds penalty and 2 penalty points for leaving Gasly too little space, both both continued.

    Verstappen changes side twice and starts a crash for two cars and gets a reprimand… hmmm. We are not following it, FIA….

  36. This crash is just the lastest result of Verstappen’s on-track behaviour.
    There has been an evolution of racing drivers over the years, and the child is today’s brightest example of the times we are in.
    Take an extreme risk-taker like Gilles Villeneuve, add a sense of God-given entitlement, and you get a Senna.
    Take an extreme risk-taker with a sense of entitlement, and add cheating, and you get a Schumacher.
    Take an extreme risk-taker with a sense of entitlement and a cheat, and add a massive ego and inability to learn or be sorry, and you get the little brat.
    That’s F1 from the age of gladiators to the age of Playstation. But it is not a game, and the illusion of safety will come (literally) crashing down soon. The child will end up in the wall like him predecessors, hopefully not hurting someone else in the process. See if he stops weaving around and taking extreme choices…


    Those of you involved in the witch-hunt of Verstappen watch the F1 official ‘incident video’ above and hang your heads in shame snowflakes.

    Max did not move at all whilst slowing down. Both cars went off the DRS and down with several gears then Riccairdo slams into the back of him.

    The sanitisation of the sport continues…….

    1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
      30th April 2018, 21:47

      You can’t seriously not be able to see the 2 defensive moves there? Technically, if Max hadn’t move twice, Daniel would have been passed him or gotten side-by-side.

      It’s mathematically impossible if Daniel and Max start on the same line (Daniel behind Max) and Daniel makes 2 moves (switching sides) while Max makes 1 move that Daniel would have hit Max from behind before the turn – any scenario ends up with Daniel on a different path than Max avoiding a collision.

  38. It’s the repeating pattern of crashes that involve Verstappen that worries me, the guy lacks any strategic vision. Defends 100% and attacks 100% no matter what the circumstances. He’d rather get a DNF defending 5th place than trying to out strategize the four cars in front of him. Unless he changes his behaviour, he will never win a world championship.

  39. From the website:

    “More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. If a driver has moved off the racing line while defending their position, they may move back but must ensure there is at least one car’s width between their own car and the edge of the track”

  40. tgu (@thegrapeunwashed)
    30th April 2018, 17:01

    Max, should pick one side of the track and stick to it, not see-saw left and right to make the guy behind back off – that’s not racing. I like Verstappen, but the stewards ought to have thrown the book at him this time: overtaking is hard enough without monkeying around like this.

    Baku is a slipstreaming track, he should have allowed Ricciardo an overtaking opportunity in the expectation of getting him later in the race. Very poor from Verstappen. Very poor from the stewards.

  41. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
    30th April 2018, 21:15

    Just curious, did Ricciardo purposely move his car directly behind Max’s upon realizing that they would collide so as to control the collision by having his front wheels bump Max’s rear wheels?

    If he had kept his car where it was, he would have hit Max’s car on the left side with Max’s car possibly climbing ontop of Daniel’s car or lifting his or Max’s car into the air and/or possibly hitting the walls.

  42. Michael Anastasi
    1st May 2018, 4:38

    Let’s face it this is great for F1 – it’s been boring as during the hybrid era and the Max v Daniel battle was the best part of the race. Max is a the master of the sneaky overtake on cold tyres but the way Daniel fought back was brilliant – except for the last move. He knows Max and should have waited a lap or two – the opportunity would have come to have a legit go. Spain will be more of the same given it favours Red Bull. Bring it on.

  43. This should be pretty easy. Either there is a rule about this or there isn’t. If there is, then whatever the rule says is what applies. If there isn’t, then it’s all fair. So, is there a rule to judge this kind of event?

  44. Let me say up front, I am not a fan of MV for a number of reasons. My comment is in reference to getting a repeated look at MV “racing” along side DR in all the footage from Baku, the end result of which was the coming together regardless of who you think was at fault for that one. In my view, Max is either an immature participant in this sport, or he is dangerously pugnacious in his approach to racing. If watch these two going down a straight side by side, when DR is overtaking he is holding a very stable, steady line as he drives by. But if you watch Verstappen’s “line” he is ultra erratic, always juking left and right as though he is trying to make DR flinch by moving toward him and then away. In the early going during the incident where he drove into DR, he clearly turned into DR after regaining control of his car, instead of continuing around the corner, and leaving space enough for both of them to race, which he could have done. That was a decision to run into his team mate, or at the very least force his team mate closer to the armco. I have watched formula one since the mid 70’s, and I am not sure I have ever seen any driver at or near the front who drove this way, Schumacher and Senna not-with-standing. You can say what you want about who was at fault in the big crash, but MV is not a clean, sportsman like driver. Maybe he will get there at some time in the future, but at present, in my opinion he is an unsafe variable on the current grid. He should not be given any free passes for his behavior. He either needs to clean up his act or go back a couple of grades and finish his schooling.

  45. Verstappen and Ricciardo had been involved in an entertaining battle for much of the race, Verstappen managing to hold off Ricciardo until before their stops when Ricciardo finally managed to make a move stick but then Verstappen actually manged to get the place back after stopping later.

    Before they both actually crashed out there were a few moments where I thought the Red Bulls might crash into each other, and indeed they did touch but it was tyre to tyre and didn’t cause any problems.

    Having thought about it I think putting it down as a racing incident with both of them to blame is probably about right but I could understand if anyone said either driver was more responsible but only as far as about 70%.

    The live footage broadcast as the incident happened was from Ricciardo’s on board camera and it seemed to show that Verstappen was weaving a lot and so my initial reaction was that was the one in the wrong.

    However when they showed the head on camera looking down the main straight you could see that although Verstappen did move twice it wasn’t by that much and it had only looked that way from Ricciardo’s on-board because Ricciardo himself had been weaving so much. At that point if I had had to say it was anyone’s fault I would probably have said slightly more Ricciardo, maybe about 60%.

    It looked like Ricciardo had tried to sell Verstappen a dummy but Verstappen wasn’t buying.

    Ricciardo fainted a move to the outside then went straight to the inside, Verstappen had moved slightly to the outside and then to the inside, so when Ricciardo went to try and go down the inside the space wasn’t there and he ran into the back of Verstappen ending both their races.

    If you take risks and attempt overtakes like Ricciardo does it is inevitable that at some stage things will go wrong and there will be a coming together, but if you don’t take those risks you won’t get rewards such as the victory Ricciardo achieved last time out in China, nothing ventured nothing gained.

    The only drivers who would never crash either would be those who only attempt the most straightforward low risk overtakes, I would rather have drivers like Ricciardo then them any day.

  46. Verstappen: Sacked.

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